San Francisco Restaurants Want To Make 25% Standard Tip Rate

[The Straight Story]

SAN FRANCISCO (CBS SF/99.7 Now) – It’s a question many of us ask when we go out to a restaurant. “How much should I tip?” Whether your service is good or bad, San Francisco Restaurant workers want to implement a 25% standard tip onto your bill for you. Is this fair?

Many in the food industry say “…yes, it’s about time.” However, many “foodies” are not as happy with the idea. According to an article in the San Jose Mercury News, for the most part, people, on average tip between 15% – 20% and the restaurant worker actually has to claim 15% of that to the IRS.

Opinions that sway against the increase said that “…the whole purpose of a tip is to reward service.” They feel the new tip increase should be earned and if more is needed, then they must step up their service so that the increase justifies a larger tip amount.

Not everyone is against the idea. Some have felt with the state of the nation’s economy is in, that 25% is not unreasonable. And some tip above the average already. Some went a step further to say if you want to reward service, you must start tipping the workers at fast food places as well. Most fast food workers earn minimum wage and rarely get tips.

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2011/10/13/san-francisco-restaurants-want-to-make-25-standard-tip-rate/

[Freddie Stubbs]

1. I usually tip 20%. It's so much easier to do the math that way

[pipi_k]

5. Me too, except for the other day when

I noticed that the waitress's teenaged son had come into the restaurant to see her for a while (the place wasn't busy at the time).

I figured she must be a single mom. She was a very good waitress...polite...pleasant...checked with us a number of times to make sure everything was good.

So I left her a $5.00 tip on a $19.00 order.

I see it this way...if I can afford to dine out once in a while, I can afford to help out a person making minimum wage.

[snooper2]

6. It's hard to divide the bill in half, then that amount in half again?

:P :eyes:

[MrScorpio]

42. That's how I do it

Don't ask me to figure out 25%… Too much thinking involved.

[slackmaster]

2. They could do that, but IMO it would subvert the system and drive some customers away

I usually tip at least that much, sometimes much more (I've been known to leave tips exceeding 100% of small tabs.)

The whole idea of the tipping system is that it's voluntary for most transactions. Restaurants have the right to impose mandatory tips, and the city could impose it as an ordinance. I just think it's a bad idea.

[MADem]

3. Fuck them. Pay your waiters, cheapskates. Pay your fast food servers, too.

I usually tip twenty percent, but don't go telling me how much to give.

If the service is horrible and it's the server's fault, they need to be told that they stink, and the management needs to be advised as well. And they don't merit any reward. I can't remember the last time I've gotten lousy service--it's been over a decade, at least.

Can't make ends meet? RAISE YOUR PRICES and either sink or swim.

What nerve! And how incredibly stupid!

[Matariki]

27. +1

My standard is also 20% - but jeez, restaurants charge enough money to pay a proper wage to their employees. What a bunch of greedy crap.

[xchrom]

4. I always tip twenty - if this is an indication that tip rates

Are moving to 25 then I'll do that.

I'd be just as happy if tips were included.

[mrmpa]

33. A restaurant yesterday added 18% tip to the bill......

this was not indicative of the service, we added $2 more, brought tip to about 25%.

[FSogol]

7. Time for restaurants to pay their employees more.

I tip 20% and increasing tips past that will cause me to dine out less.

[Yavin4]

8. They Should Name The Law, "The Mr. Pink Law"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqrg5uctkio&feature=related

[Che Billy]

9. An excuse to pay the help even less

If everyone who had a job in this country were paid a real living wage (I know, that's such a radical thought...) there'd be little need for restaurants and their servers to raise the tipping "standard."

I think it's obvious that the practice of tipping the wait staff is what gives license to restaurant owners to pay as little as they do. And if they can condition us to pay an even higher tip, they can go ahead and reduce wages even more.

The winners? The folks that own the means of production, of course. What else could we possibly expect from our wonderful capitalist system?

This said, I do tip generously when warranted. I just wish it wasn't necessary to do so in order to keep the wait staff from living in poverty.

[IndyPragmatist]

20. Unintended consequences. Very good.

I was waiting to see if anyone would mention this. Everyone looks at the benefits of a program like this and ignores the potential drawbacks. I'm sure restaurants will argue that if they lower the minimum wage for servers, they can hire more. Since they will be getting a higher guaranteed tip, they will make more overall.

I bartended for a few years during college and I was lucky that my restaurant paid me $10/hour on top of tips. There would be afternoons where nobody came in and if it weren't for the hourly wage, I would have made next to nothing.

[Gormy Cuss]

21. Also an excuse to keep menu prices artificially low.

The servers aren't paid more allegedly because the owners can't raise the prices. That's the justification for the creeping up of the expected standard tip rate from 15% to 20%.

At least in SF the servers are paid at least the minimum wage, which is just under $10/ hr. In other areas the servers get that special subminimum wage as their base.

[Xithras]

10. 15% should be seen as the minimum tip.

I already tip up to 25% for good service. To get a 15% tip from me, your service would need to be barely passable.

[Riftaxe]

22. I have left a $0.01 tip before

since on that occasion I had to do all the work of the server, such as go find the manager and ask for the drinks to be delivered, same for the food because the waitress was busy (smoking outside right in front of my window, talking with her coworkers, and generally goofing off).

Why would anyone support a nonsense rule like a mandatory 25% tip?

[KamaAina]

30. For extra style points,

drop the penny (or nickel) in a glass of water. Place a piece of cardboard on top of the glass. Quickly invert the glass, set it down on the table, then yank out the cardboard and leave.

I have never had the cojones to actually do this myself. :(

[MADem]

38. In some restaurants, you're only screwing the busboy/girl if you do that.

Many waiters/waitresses do not clear their own tables--they pay "the bus" a percentage of their tips to do that nasty job for them.

If you see subservient people running around with rubber cartons of dirty dishes, delivering water but not taking food orders, and wiping down tables or changing linens, those are the buspeople, and they'd get stuck cleaning up the mess.

[Xithras]

39. I used to do that, but I realized that there's little point in insulting them.

The tip is compensation for their service. If they utterly fail to provide that service, I simply leave no tip at all. It's rare, but there ARE some people who have no business waiting tables, because they're either clueless or don't care about the job. I'm not going to compensate someone who's net contribution to my meal has been to make it less enjoyable. At the same time, it's not my place to insult them over it. If the service is horrendous enough that I feel the need to do something about it, I'll pass my opinions on to the manager. Otherwise, I'll just pay the bill, leave, and hope they get a clue (or a new line of work).

[TBF]

11. I feel sorry for the poor restaurant owners who can't move their labor to India ...

:sarcasm:

[rdking647]

12. i tip 20%

if the restaurant tried to include a 25% tip on the bill I'd reduce it to less than 20%....

[subterranean]

13. I've got a better idea.

Why don't the restaurants just pay their workers 25% more, raise their prices and eliminate tipping?

Having a "standard tip" added to the bill kind of defeats the purpose of tipping.

[madinmaryland]

Why not just require all restaurant employees be paid a fair salary and

eliminate tipping altogether.

[LynneSin]

14. I am a long time waitress and I totally disagree with this

First, I feel that tipping is a way to ensure good service. I lived for 3 years entirely on what I made waiting tables and trust me, making just 15% tips you could barely make ends meet. I worked my ass off to earn an average of 20%.

For me forcing a tip would create give a message to those who are waitpersons that service doesn't matter since you'll get a big tip no matter what. If I tip someone 15% it usually means their service sucked. Normally I add between 20-25% for my bills.

I do not believe in forcing tips on bills unless it happens to be a large party (6 or more). You almost have to add to large parties because sometimes these groups can monopolize all of your time and it sucks if they end up leaving you a shitty tip (like 15%).

[Chan790]

15. I'd much rather they went the other way...

passed a reasonable server's wage law and discouraged tipping.

I'd much rather eat someplace I know the servers are making $10-12/hr., the bussers $8-9/hr. and tipping is appreciated but not expected and rare.

I've always been the tipping hardliner on here chewing out people who bitch about tipping 20% or more...but I'm getting sick of wage-subsidization for cheap employers.

While we're at it...it's time for an indexed minimum wage that matches inflation on a yearly-basis at-least.

[FarCenter]

16. A "standard 25% tip" on the bill is a 25% price increase and a 0% tip

But yes, we should go to the European system and stop tipping.

[WinkyDink]

17. Is there a reason they can't simply raise meal prices and/or pay employees more?

[hifiguy]

18. I usually tip 20% and will do 25%

if the service is really good. But I will tip only 10-15% if the service is not good. And sometimes it is not good.

[Frank Coffin]

19. NYS has a mandatory gratuity tip of 18%

on one certain restaurant I went to had REALLY bad service and still I paid the 18% gratuity, and they should be satisfied with that gratituity because I did not add any additional tip because their service was so bad. I spent 2 hours sitting in a restaurant with my son, my wife, and my BIL when there was like two other tables occupied out of maybe 20 tables.

Two waiters, and one busboy in a very small restaurant, and we were largely ignored.

Guess they were busy chatting with the people downstairs which was more important than the people who's paying them their wages.

[Renew Deal]

37. NY does not have a mandatory tip.

Some restaurants have tips in the bill for large parties, but it's not state law.

[WinkyDink]

40. Not true at all.

[KamaAina]

23. Bull! Even New Yorkers tip 20%

As for the IRS, well, a friend of Mom's who used to wait tables years ago tells us that's why waitstaff prefer their tips in cash, even if you're paying the bill with plastic. :-)

And tipping at fast-food places? Since when did Mickey D's sart offering table service? :shrug:

[kctim]

24. Tips are EARNED

Implement a mandatory tip onto my bill and I don't use your service.

[lynne]

25. Sorry, but no. I won't be eating anywhere that tells me how much I must tip -

- as tips are earned. I usually tip 20% for satisfactory service, more if service is excellent. BUT, I will continue to retain the right to tip 2 cents if service is horrible.

[elleng]

26. Don't know about 'fair,' but don't like idea of standard/required tip.

25% much too high; imo, such a % should be earned by very good service, and ANY tip should be earned, not imposed.

[Book Lover]

28. Such a misleading headline!

This whole thing started when Michael Bauer, one of our local columnists, decided to write a story about the new Zagat survey claiming that San Franciscians are the nation's worst tippers: http://insidescoopsf.sfgate.com/blog/2011/09/21/why-are-san-franciscans-the-country%E2%80%99s-worst-tippers/

My opinion? It's the tourists who drag down the average; we locals know to tip well. But that's beside the main point here.

There was a followup article in a different newspaper which made the unsourced claim that SF restaurant workers are behind the 25% tip norm push: http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_19098081

And now you've posted a third-generation story about the whole affair. Frankly, it's been nothing but a dust-up by the local media, and you people are buying it!

on edit: Ah, I see Paolo did the job for us: http://insidescoopsf.sfgate.com/blog/2011/10/14/ok-are-restaurant-staffers-really-demanding-a-25-tip-standard/?tsp=1

[KamaAina]

31. Point of clarification: The unsourced follow-up was written for the Contra Costa Times

a suburban daily in the East Bay, not the San Jose Mercury News, which linked to it because both, alas, are part of something called the "Bay Area News Group". :puke:

Sad. The Merc used to be one of the finest papers in the land. Remember when Gary Webb exposed the CIA-contra drug running, and got Baxtered for his troubles?

[Book Lover]

32. Thank you for that clarification

And yes, I should have dug to the direct source.

As for the CIA-contra drug ring story: Oh yes, I sure do. The Merc used to be the paper of choice here, before everyone was fired. When I moved here , I was shocked at how poorly served San Francisco proper was with its two crappy newspapers. Now, we have nothing, really.

[Mimosa]

29. Counterproductive: With 25% tipping mandatory most people will dine out less.

Only the rich can afford 25% tips. And most of them don't tip all that well. Ask any servers you know.

20% is generous. 15% is fine for adequate service.

Otherwise, why not pay servers a salary calculated on hours worked and experience? In Japan and some other nations waiters are salaried.

[rdking647]

34. the report has been debunked

http://insidescoopsf.sfgate.com/blog/2011/10/14/ok-are-restaurant-staffers-really-demanding-a-25-tip-standard/?tsp=1


Inside Scoop has reached out to nearly 20 San Francisco restaurants and not one has heard of said movement. In fact, many of the chefs/operators had a good chuckle upon having the article — err, those two sentences — read to them. Another joked that maybe the East Bay paper is trying to drum up support for East Bay restaurants.

[rainbow4321]

35. My daughter started as a server a few months ago

Her base hourly pay is a little over $2/hour, the rest of her pay comes from tips. From what she has told me, with the tips, she averages between $10 to $12/hour each night just in tips. Think she said that she brought home $450 one week when she added up the tips. Right now she is living back home for a while so she can save money/not have bills before she moves on.

There was one night when a group a diners came in and one of those diners paid for his meal with a $20, telling her to NOT bring him any one dollar bills back. So she brought him back a $10 bill and some coins...he left her the coins. Can't say it was her service cuz EVERYONE else in the group left her 15-20 percent.

She tells me stories about getting evil eyes, cold shoulders, and comments made by the other servers who are not given the better seating areas or better shifts like she is being given even though she has been there LESS time than they have. There's a reason for that...they show up to work with chips on their shoulders and it shows in their work while she goes in each time with a good attitude, does her work well, doesn't complain, and gives good customer service.
This is not going unnoticed by the restaurant managers. There are some pretty catty co-workers there, I keep reminding her to watch her back and avoid the drama. Sounds like so far she has been doing just that

[Initech]

36. I usually tip between 18 - 20%, I definitely try to tip pretty well.

I have a lot of friends that have worked food service jobs and they've all said that you should never stiff on the tip if it's a place you frequent. So I try to abide by that rule.

[Puregonzo1188]

41. I always tip 20%, usually rounding up so it comes out to a little extra.

Though I have no problem with this proposal.

[Major Nikon]

43. The whole idea of tipping is flawed

Most other countries don't do this or if they do tip it's just to round up to the next monetary increment.

The whole problem with tipping is when you make it optional, lots of people will tip nothing and look at everyone else like they are suckers. The evidence of this is found in the article. Imagine if all customers tipped 20%, or even 15% at the typical SF full service restaurant. I'm not sure how much that would be, but I'm pretty sure it would be enough that the wait staff wouldn't need an increase.

I'd rather the restaurant pay it's workers a living wage and charge what the real costs are for the meal.