Comparing US with Foreign Educational Standards.

[Cal33]

Pres. Obama would like 90% of our youngsters to be highschool grads!

We must also consider the fact that the national IQ averages out to be
100. That means that half of our people have IQs above 100, and half
below. If we want 90% to be HS grads, we'd have to lower our standards,
wouldn't we? Our standards are already low enough.

I understand that IQ alone isn't everything. The quality of teachers,
the attitude of parents about learning, children's emotional and existing
interpersonal relationship difficulties (if any)...etc... all play a role.

In Europe the vast majority of the population are not HS graduates. They
don't hesitate to weed out those who are not academically inclined. On
the other hand, they have excellent trade schools. And those who have
gone to trade schools do make a good living. It's not a shame to not
be a HS grad there. But the standards of HS in Europe are considerably
higher than ours.

On a recent international testing of 15-year-olds involving 65 countries
(conducted by the U.S. and European nations), the U.S. ranked 32nd.
Surprisingly enough, it's the Asian countries that took the top
positions. They have caught up. The only European nation among the top
6 was Finland.

Like it or not, we do have a long, long way to go to catch up.

[WilmywoodNCparalegal]

1. You state that in Europe "the vast majority are not high school

graduates." What's your source on this? I ask because, as an Italian who went to public schools in Italy between 1973 and 1987, with two parents who are college graduates, it was a rarity to actually meet anyone below the age of 35 who had not graduated at least high school.

Again, I lived in northern Italy and yes, things are different in southern Italy, but still, even today, it is a rarity to see someone not complete high school.

Moreover, when I moved to the U.S. at age 15, when I should have been a sophomore in U.S. high schools I was instead classified as a junior, despite my complete lack of knowledge of U.S. English, because the breadth of my Italian education was such that it was deemed well above that of a comparable high schooler. In fact, my parents were told that had my sister and I been fluent in English we probably would have been placed in an early college program.

The point of this is that we also need to compare what an high school diploma means in the U.S. vis-a-vis one in, say, Italy (since I have experience with that one).

An average high school diplomate in the U.S. will certainly not have the breadth and scope of knowledge that an average high school diplomate in Italy will have. The curricula are drastically different - expectations for achievement are different. Testing is different (we certainly didn't have multiple choice or true/false tests in Italy) and teachers are educated differently (above elementary school grades, teachers are called professors and generally do not graduate with a teaching degree, but with a degree in their chosen field).

The Italian system is not perfect by any means, but I credit it without a doubt for where I am today professionally and academically.

[Cal33]

2. I have lived many years in Europe. I know something about the

French and German systems. A minority of students pass the "Baccalaureat" in France.

Some 50 years ago, perhaps 10% of students were "Gymnasium" graduates. Later, they
made it easier and also graduated those who were weak in courses involving language,
but did well in the sciences. Today, perhaps 25% graduate from both groups combined.

Unfortunately I have no information regarding the Italian schools.

[Cal33]

3. In Germany there are private schools also, but the standard of

the private schools are lower than that of the public ones.

As far as pursuing an academic course is concerned, when a student fails,
s/he can repeat that year. If s/he fails that same year a second time,
s/he has to drop out. They can continue in a trade school if they wish.
If the parents can afford it, the student can continue an academic course
in private school. But they still have to take and pass the public school
final exams, if they wish to go on to university. There are some who
are in their 20s when they graduate from HS.

Education is free all the way up to a Ph.D. But one has to be pretty
good. The elimination rate is high. Of course, one's living expenses
must be considered, and they are not free. So, money still plays a role,
but a smaller one than here in the U.S.

I think we inherited our system from the British. Oxford and Cambridge
used to be only for the titled and the wealthy. Today there are
scholarships.