Harsh truth time: It must be said: OWS will accomplish nothing.

[Initech]

It's a great start for sure. The premise was great but the execution was bad and disorganized and most importantly lacked central leadership. It's time for Plan B:

If we really want to accomplish the real change we were promised in '08, what we really need to do is focus on taking back the media. For four decades now the huge right-wing slant in our media - it started with Limbaugh, and spread to Fox News and beyond, has gone for that long unchallenged and unpunished. And the damage that the lies spewing from the pundits have caused will make America unrepairable. We even saw their ugly RW side during the beginning of OWS when they wouldn't talk about it and continued focusing on the tea party's flavor of the month. It's like a game of chess - the media is their king and they've seized control of it and refused to let go.

The simple fact is we need to take back the media. Then we can focus on taking back Wall St.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. We have already taken back the media.

The so-called MSM are becoming increasingly irrelevant. Communication is being accomplished more and more by the internet, Twitter and other social media. That's why OWS could succeed, regardless of what traditional media does or says.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

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[TheWraith]

24. No, we haven't.

The number of people who get their "news" (if you want to call it that) from Twitter is small, and mostly limited to people self-selecting the kind of "news" they want to hear. The net result? People on the left living in their own self-created media information bubble, kind of like the conservatives watching Fox, and the vast majority of Americans still getting their information from CNN and NBC Nightly News.

[Romulox]

2. They got "free trade" with Korea, didn't they?

Or are you saying that OWS isn't a megaphone in support ofthe Obama administration's policies? Because I've had several DUers assure me that it is! :shrug:

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Fumesucker]

3. Central leadership will immediately become a target..

Politically, legally and I fear physically as well.

[Cid_B]

8. or they can run around like hamsters in a cage...

and spout bumper stickers...

Ya know.. whatever works...

[Fumesucker]

14. This ain't your father's protest action..

It's easier to kill something you can chop the head off of.

[Exilednight]

62. If a leader emerged, the last thing the right would do is try and chop it off. The last thing they

want is a martyr for this movement.

[Fumesucker]

65. There is an awful lot of "they's" out there..

And not all that many are nearly as bright as they think they are.

[closeupready]

4. Disagree. They've already put big money interests on the defensive.

In this age of obsequious Erin Burnetts and Jim Cramers, that's huge.

[Initech]

6. True but those types have already proven their irrelevance. I'm talking about their big guns.

[MFrohike]

7. Or

You can take the view that OWS is an initial phase. I suspect it may be a chance for us, the public at large, to take the time to think about solutions that fix these widespread problems. While some of the solutions can be found in the past, especially examining the legislation of the 30s, some of them need time to percolate. I realize that this all seems a bit murky, but I think that we aren't ready for further steps. This is one of the great "raising awareness" moments we've ever seen. It would be smart to take advantage of the opportunity.

I don't think the execution was bad and I don't find the lack of central leadership to be a problem. OWS is staging an occupation. Occupations are usually military in nature. They've turned the entire idea on its head. I don't know if this is new or rediscovered, but it's brilliant. It's how things start and should be enjoyed while we have the chance. The lack of central leadership is a hell of a bonus right now. Hopefully, through continued action, the time will come when leadership must form in order to move it past a demonstration. Until that point, the amorphous shape and organization keeps everyone off balance. It takes time for people to figure out how to respond to novel ideas. By using an unexpected structure, it's gained appeal with the public because of its novelty and its expression of popular frustrations. It looks grassroots, it sounds grassroots, and it walks grassroots (clever use of humor and satire). People know the real when they see it.

[Initech]

11. That's kind of the way I see it as phase I. Time to regroup for phase II.

[MFrohike]

17. Too soon

There's a quotation from Lincoln that should govern times like these:

"I claim not to have controlled events, but confess plainly that events have controlled me."

[Initech]

47. Can't argue with that.

[Justpat]

40. Thank you and welcome to DU.

:toast:

[LanternWaste]

9. I imagine we often confuse our own prognostications and opinions

I imagine we often confuse our own prognostications and opinions with absolute truths and statements of fact.

I think it's because we often want to believe our own unsupported agendas and opinions so much, we convince ourselves that anything that does not run absolutely parallel to them should be dismissed and denied without thought.

[Matariki]

21. And *that's* the 'harsh truth.

LOL

What you said LanternWaste.

[Matariki]

22. oops duplicate

[Fire Walk With Me]

10. O Rly?

:rofl::hi:

[sabrina 1]

12. Is this a new talking point or something? I think this must be the

sixth such thread I've seen and it has been answered in other threads.

You should educate yourself about this movement and all your fears will be allayed. They are on to the Corporate media, the Corporate State etc etc.

Be patient, look what they've done so far. They have won over a majority of the people which is necessary before you can even begin to have an impact.

What have blogs accomplished over the past ten years? Other than help reelect the Corporate candidates which kept the status quo and nothing has changed with all the words typed and arguments and partisan battles. Not a thing has changed.

But the potential for real change has now appeared and maybe people should respect those who have actually succeeded in getting the attention of the world, including both political parties here.

27 days ago people here and elsewhere said 'this won't go anywhere, they will all be gone home after the weekend'.

They were wrong, try to trust the people, not the political system which is you are still pushing, even though it's clear we need a whole new structure built from the bottom up and that is what they are doing.

[Initech]

13. I certainly hope so. I definitely support the movement don't get me wrong.

But I'm incredibly sick of the "liberal media" BS I can't stand it anymore. Limbaugh and his cronies have been able to get away with their shit for far too long.

[Aerows]

23. I'm sick of Rush Limbaugh, too

But you don't defeat a blowhard like him by trying to out yell him. He discredits himself more every day. Eventually, enough people will realize that he's a liar and a con artist. Look at Glenn Beck - he finally discredited himself so badly even Fox didn't want him anymore.

As for the corporate media, it's being made more irrelevant every day. People from all walks of life and political parties are realizing that we aren't told the truth - we are only told what the big corporations want us to hear. You shut that down by refusing to listen - any many more do so every day.

[Matariki]

27. Would love to work toward a law like the one Canada just passed

Disallowing false and misleading news programming. So funny that FOX opted out rather than operate under that restriction.

That's what we need here.

[caledesi]

37. Well said Mat...! n/t

[Aerows]

41. I couldn't agree more

I'm sick of the lies and distortions of the truth by media outfits.

[Initech]

48. Couldn't agree more.

[sabrina 1]

54. I understand, but if you can get RT on your cable lineup

you really will be encouraged to learn that the Occupiers have already begun to address this issue. They have begun publishing their own newspaper The Occupied Wall Street Journal, which was so successful in its first run that they second edition had to be doubled to 100,000 copies. People all over NY are reading it on buses, on subways and in restaurants.

Now, they intend to make it national. In just two weeks they have attracted a readership that probably outdoes many of the current newspapers. They have groups to handle various issues and the Media Group has excelled in such a short time. They have professional journalists, free lance journalists and access to printing presses donated by Indy Media who are now collaborating with this project. RT did a fantastic segment on this today. You can probably find it on their website.

Acually I was planning to write an OP on this as I agree with you about the media and because I think this is one of the most important and most successful things they have done so far. I will do so later when I have some time for those who are not aware of it yet.

I have been trying to find a way to order it, but can't find the donate button but when I do I will definitely be ordering it.

Sorry if I came across as impatient, but there is so much that needs to be done and definitely the Corporate Media is at the top of the list of our current problems.

Anyhow, I hope you do check out RT's story on this, you won't find it on CNN or Fox, that's for sure :-)

[swilton]

30. Totally agree with Sabrina 1

And I have appreciated your pictoral updates.

If this movement were to stop ongoing policies, the only way it could do that would be if it were coopted by one of the political parties...

Thankfully, it is not only not coopted but it has not articulated specific demands so that it could belong to one of the parties...

I see it as moving into uncharted territory.....To some extent this is scarey because the idealists could at some point along the way become hijacked by realists - or minorities with highly centralized bureaucracies and organizations...This is what happened to the Russian Revolution.

I see that the organization has lofty goals - peace, the environment and social justice defined through numerous actions....It is essentially crafting an entire political system out of whole cloth....But as Chris Hedges said, the future of the human race depends upon it....

In my view addressing the erosion of our environment (macro-sense) is especially critical...We have the means but not the will to address this....an area where both political parties have failed the people....

It seems that our political structures as currently configured are unable to address contemporary political crises - peace, the health of the planet, economics in a globalized world. As with this latest attempt to craft a ploy to blame Iran for trying to assassinate a Saudi Ambassador to the US - totally incompetent and ploy that would have been successful in the 1950's - but so out of touch in today's world....It is really pathetic an attempt to distract the masses and validates the need for OWS.

[sabrina 1]

61. Good post, thank you swilton.

All the issues you just mentioned have not been addressed because of the one single overarching issue that this movement has used as its central theme, Corporate money taking over our government. To separate Wall Street Money, Corporate money, from our Government really has to be the most goal in order to restore our democratic process.

No decent legislation will ever pass to protect the environment so long as Corporate money is flowing into Congress to block any such legislation. The same is true of every other issue, Campaign Finance Reform, the Wars, Healthcare etc. The very first goal has to be to stop the purchase of our government by Wall Street. How to do that is something everyone needs to think about. I have a few ideas and hope that with all the intelligent minds involved in this movement, they will find a way.

Re the topic of the OP, see my post below about how the movement IS addressing the Corporate Media problem. Or if you can get RT on your cable lineup or online, they have been covering this story from the beginning and their coverage has been absolutely excellent. Today they did a segment on what the Occupiers have begun to do about the Media, starting with publishing their own newspaper which has been a huge success so far. I am hoping to do an OP on that as many people seem to be unaware of it. Thanks again for your very insightful post.

[AverageJoe90]

70. Isn't there anyone OTHER than RT we can turn to?

Sad thing is, as decent as some of their reporters may be(Alyona), we still have to realize that R.T. is, for the most part, largely TV's Pravda.......basically, largely operating as the Kremlin's mouthpiece on many occasions(not always, though.)

[sabrina 1]

71. I have not found any bias in their coverage of these stories.

They interview all sides of issues, unlike our MSM which truly is biased. Most of their reporters are Americans and they are based in DC. I don't get the concern at all. They and Al Jazeera have some of the best coverage of International affairs, and they also have on Russians who oppose their government's policies also.

Current TV with Keith is doing good coverage now, but only for one hour a day. The MSM when they do cover this story, IF they do, has been shameful. The NYT eg, has edited their stories that initially WERE fair, and CNN sent out a former Goldman Sachs employee, currently engaged to a CEO from CitiBank to mock the protesters without revealing her own biases. So I don't bother with the Corporate Media anymore. I watch all news on Independent media where the coverage and the reporters are far superior to what we have on the US Media. Someday when we take back the media from Corporate control and rehire some of our great journalists, many of whom have been silenced, or fired like Ashley Banfield eg, I will watch it again.

RT has told no lies about this movement, they have asked questions and allowed the protesters to speak for themselves. That is why I watch their coverage. I don't want to hear CNN's Goldman Sachs shill interpret this historical movement through her biased lens, not when they can speak for themselves. RT is a great news source, especially for foreign news.

[caledesi]

38. Well said Sab,,, n/t

[Matariki]

15. meh.

And OWS is ALREADY accomplishing things, so your assumptions are wrong coming out of the gate.

[HappyMe]

35. They picked a color today!!

:eyes:

[Matariki]

53. You roll your eyes but remember the Ukrainian Orange Revolution

sometimes a symbol of solidarity can be a good thing.

[blogslut]

16. Long live the Occupation!

Today was a great day and no amount of blah, blah, blah is going to diminish that.

[Poll_Blind]

18. Cool story bro.

PB

[John Agar]

19. And your defeatism will accomplish less.

Shit like this just undermines morale.

Get to work and start your takeover of the media, then back to us.

Till then...Thanks for nothing.

[marions ghost]

45. yeah

:thumbsup:

[Initech]

49. I'm loving this as it's only further proving my point.

I make a point that the media has control and all I'm getting is replies of "shut up" and "you're not helping" and "GTFO!".

I'm not defeatedim just saying we're doing this wrong. :popcorn:

[RagAss]

20. Don't be on the wrong side of history.

[kestrel91316]

25. Oh. You again. Thank you for your concern.

[Ikonoklast]

26. "Just a few hippies angry about that little far-off war, nothing to worry about, President Johnson."

OWS will grow despite them not following what you feel to be the 'proper' way of doing things.

[RagAss]

28. "Don't take the brown acid, dude"

[bobthedrummer]

29. Best laugh I've had all day-unrec, n/t

[MadHound]

31. Wow, I guess that is the message of the day,

I keep seeing "OWS will accomplish nothing" in a lot of posts around here. Hmmm.

[Freddie Stubbs]

32. I disagree. They may accomplish a lot. And that could be a bad thing

Look at what the Tea Party accomplished. They have dragged the Republican Party even further from center than it already was. They would have won the US Senate election in Nevada and Delaware if they had nominated moderate candidates. But the Tea Party favorites won and the GOP lost what should have been easy races.

[KurtNYC]

33. We never owned the MSM and we don't need it now

television is a dead medium. It is one-to-many.

Now we have many-to-many and television can't compete with that.

Fortunately your OP is 100% wrong.

[LeftyMom]

34. Yawn. -1

[xchrom]

36. Who is going to 'take back the media'?

What 'leader' that wouldn't compromise the movement?

[Cali_Democrat]

39. So how do you propose we take back the media?

Who do you want to lead the charge?

[Missy Vixen]

42. Thanks for your concern. -1 n/t

[mmonk]

43. All movements start like this, not like the tea party.

It is about standing one's ground and not being moved until injustices are addressed. They don't start with a big bang and organized. They start with a few that grows to many. Like the lunch counter in Greensboro or sitting in the front of the bus. The injustices reveal themselves.

[The Philosopher]

44. “If the world is saved

it will not be saved by old minds with new programs but by new minds with no programs at all.”

-- Daniel Quinn, The Story of B

[Rex]

46. Wrong...try as people might, OWS is now more then a rally

or movement. It is bigger now then what the Repuke talking points hope it stays as - something the M$M can easily define and ignore.

I am sorry to spoil your hopes...but you are wrong and just the opposite is happening.

Don't worry, the revolution will go on without your help. :eyes:

[ArcticFox]

51. No

The media and Wall St. are one and the same.

[itsallhappening]

52. Not sure about that. It's very well organized and funded

and may have some impact. It all depends on what their next step is, though.

[Initech]

56. That's just it we need a next step. Otherwise

We'll end up like the underpants gnomes from South Park

Step 1: occupy wall St.

Step 2: ????

Step 3: profit!!

[itsallhappening]

59. I have no doubt that a next step was planned long ago.

After watching the Livestream a good bit of yesterday and last night, there's no doubt about the planning and funding.

The people on the Livestream broadcast say they're just everyday folks, but they are amazingly knowledgeable about organizing this sort of thing. They all had websites and/or blogs with information about organizing, some of the posts going back as far as six months. Was OWS underway in April? I don't think so. But their training certainly was.

One woman was from Miami and was in a layover in NYC yesterday. She's on her way to Istanbul to help them organize. She couldn't have been more than 22 years old. Yet, she's going to Turkey to organize protests there? Who trained her? Who's paying for that trip?

This is all very organized and well funded. There's definitely a next step.

[Terry in Austin]

55. Harsh, yes; truth, no

And dude, "the media" isn't life. You're watching way too much TV.

[Phentex]

57. Dupe!

Seek attention elsewhere.

[malaise]

58. Maybe that's why MGreedia is finally discussing

issues that matter to the 99%

[tama]

60. Tea Party game

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what TP had or soon gained, central leadership of Koch Brothers and others, well funded organization and lot of support from corporate media and partisan politics, playing black and white game of win-lose (which in the end is lose-lose game). And what did the TP accomplish and where is it going now?

History teaches nothing? Why would you want to turn OWS and 99,999...% into Dem version of black and white lose-lose loserism?

[pipi_k]

64. "Take back the Media", huh?

Using censorship to eradicate things we don't agree with...

Fox News, for one.

Then it's the books and magazines "spreading RW lies". So we censor those too.


After that, someone decides that certain stations or networks aren't quite "Liberal" enough, so then it's time to get rid of them as well.

Then, like the RW lies that were being spread by books and magazines, it's time to get rid of publications that even smack of anything NOT "Liberal" enough.


Ummm.....

NO.

People may not agree with something being said on a certain network or in a certain book or magazine, but they don't have the right to censor any of those things for others.

It would stink if the RWers thought of it, and it stinks just as much for LWers to consider the same thing.

[LynneSin]

66. If the OWS is to succeed they need to start putting candidates on the ballots

and I'm not talking about the 'mission impossible' like President but go for house races and local offices. Build the movement from the ground up.

[AverageJoe90]

69. Backing people is all we can do right now.......

Even in many local races.

[Throd]

67. "Take back the media" ? What does that even mean?

You can't force everyone to watch Amy Goodman.

[AverageJoe90]

68. I'm sorry, but Unrec.

The main problem I have is, if we keep telling ourselves that it'll accomplish nothing.........then guess what? That's exactly what will happen.
I'd like to retake the media as well, but that just isn't possible at this point in time. What we really need to do is focus on taking back Congress from the Teabaggers, THEN, and only then, can we start worrying about the media.

[Initech]

72. This I definitely agree with.

I read something a while back that said it would take more than two decades to undo the damage that the teabaggers have done in 10 months. That's a scary statistic. :scared:

[fascisthunter]

73. lol... no

they have already accomplished plenty... they have brought attention to this countries problems in more ways than none. They have a accomplished much more than this thread by far.

[quaker bill]

74. This outcome is no longer possible

as they have already accomplished something. They turned the image of the republican sacred cow (Job creator, small business...) from heroic archetype to greedy bast**d.

WE have been "taking back the media" for better than a dozen years, with little tangible result. The media will report news, you just have to make some of it.