When a a tea bagger told me to read Ayn Rand today

[white_wolf]

It just really turned me off to his arguments, because that Rand was an utter failure of a writer and philosopher. When I read fiction I want to be entertained, when I read philosophy I want to be enlightened and Rand does neither.

[Uber DUer]

1. Ask that bagger if he read Atlas Shrugged cover to cover

and ask for his dissertation on that stupid book.

I usually fall asleep by page 2. Such a friggin' boring book.

Those teabaggers treat Ayn Rand like it's the fucking Bible.

[white_wolf]

8. I know.

I started reading and a few pages in I was so bored and sick of hearing about the damn train and steel industries. Oh, and none of the "heroes" seem even remotely likable. I want to strangle them all, they are so arrogant and self-centered.

[Marr]

17. Well, they are similar.

Two large books with vocal fans who don't actually read them.

[Umbral]

24. I read it cover to cover...

but, at the time, I was 17, and my favorite thing to do, besides thinking I was the smartest son of bitch on the planet, was masturbating. It took me all of 2 weeks to realize her fantasies weren't the way human society worked, unfortunately, I'm really rather slow.

[The Doctor.]

25. Brilliant.

Did you stop thinking you were the 'smartest son of a bitch' on the planet for a reason?

[Umbral]

28. Yes, I'm really rather slow.

I like the tesseract graphic, knowing the nature of shadows was one of the reasons I thought myself so smart. If only I could smack myself silly through the veil of time.

[The Doctor.]

36. "If you knew then what you know now,

You'd just make different mistakes." - Me.

Take it to heart.

You likely were what you believed. I suppose it depends.

[immoderate]

32. I'm glad that thinking you're the smartest son of a bitch on the planet...

...is no longer number one.

I experienced a similar transformation at that age. You've got to get your priorities straight! :)

--imm

[NutmegYankee]

50. It does form a core of a bible...

The Satanic Bible. Look it up.

[provis99]

2. heh.

Given your own stated political philosophy, I'm not even sure how you can talk to those Randian kooks without your head exploding!

[white_wolf]

9. I had a massive headache by the end.

[aquart]

3. I woulda burst our laughing.

[banned from Kos]

4. Always remind them that Ayn Rand hated Reagan and campaigned against him

She was fiercely pro-choice and an atheist are the main reasons (if asked).

[The Doctor.]

35. Oh shit. Of course!

Damnit! That's one of those things I should have thought of myself, but never put the pieces together.

I love it.

I'm stealing it.

You rock.

[Tansy_Gold]

5. Ah, but if you actually read it and understand the massive

flaws in her LOGIC -- and she was all about LOGIC, you see -- you can make their heads explode.

It's lots of fun. I do it all time.



Tansy Gold, proud owner of an autographed copy of Atlas Shrugged

[Lizzie Poppet]

22. Fun, innit?

Philosophy doctorate here ("Would you like fries with that...?"), but you sure don't have to have one to utterly dismantle Rand. Bit of a joke, really...

[white_wolf]

23. I really wanted to get a philosophy degree.

But sadly in the interests of employment I went with Journalism and possibly political science, though I'm considering sociology. I'm taking suggestions on those last two. I now just study philosophy on my own. I'm reading up on ancient Greek philosophers now and then will study some eastern philosophy since I've always been interested in Buddhism. I won't lie though, I'm dreading Nietzsche.

[dogknob]

6. When Rand comes up...

...the conversation is pretty much over.

[TomClash]

7. I already did

And that's why I'm a Progressive

[Warpy]

26. Same here

I also tell people I've read Marx and that's why I'm not a Marxist, although his writing is one hell of a lot more nourishing than Rand's could ever even pretend to be.

[leftstreet]

10. Tell him you think she was really hot. And you have uh, dreams about her

[Vinnie From Indy]

11. I always offer that she did pretty good for herself for someone on welfare

Cheers!

[applegrove]

12. Ayn Rand's worldview is that of an adolescent. There are no true adult heroes in her books.

[EdMaven]

30. she was traumatized by the russian revolution in her youth. a case of arrested development.

[lunatica]

13. I hope you told her you had read Ayn Rand and that it's full of ungrounded hate and

shows her to be a nasty piece of work who manipulated the people around her by brow beating them. That she exhibited all the symptoms of a psychopath of the highest order who needed mental treatment in the worst way.

that would have not only shut the woman up but she would never say that to anyone else again for fear they might clean her clock too.

[FarCenter]

14. Unfortunately Alan Greenspan read Atlas Shrugged in manuscript

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Greenspan#Objectivism

In the early 1950s, Greenspan began an association with famed novelist and philosopher Ayn Rand.<35> Greenspan was introduced to Rand by his first wife, Joan Mitchell. Rand nicknamed Greenspan "the undertaker" because of his penchant for dark clothing and reserved demeanor. Although Greenspan was initially a logical positivist,<42> he was converted to Rand's philosophy of Objectivism by her associate Nathaniel Branden. He became one of the members of Rand's inner circle, the Ayn Rand Collective, who read Atlas Shrugged while it was being written. During the 1950s and 1960s Greenspan was a proponent of Objectivism, writing articles for Objectivist newsletters and contributing several essays for Rand's 1966 book Capitalism: the Unknown Ideal including an essay supporting the gold standard.<43><44> Rand stood beside him at his 1974 swearing-in as Chair of the Council of Economic Advisers. Greenspan and Rand remained friends until her death in 1982.<35>

---

The pernicious power of bad ideas!

[kestrel91316]

19. Anybody find any irony in the name of her inner circle,

the Ayn Rand COLLECTIVE????

I mean, you'd think that would have given her apoplexy. She loathed the very idea of "collective" anything.

[white_wolf]

20. They choose it to be ironic.

At least that's what I've read.

[Marr]

15. Her "philosophy" is in the fiction department. That says it all for me.

Her arguments are full of holes. If she'd tried to push those ideas as philosophy, it would've been torn to shreds and buried in no time.

Seriously-- have you read Atlas Shrugged? She begins by stating her argument about like so:

'Altruism is evil. Now, having proven that altruism is evil, let us extrapolate. Greed is virtue. There you are. All proven, undeniable fact.'

[Uber DUer]

18. Zzzz......

Oh sorry... that last paragraph made me fall asleep already...

[lonestarnot]

16. I broke up a few nutjob Cd's myself today.

Tore up a few of their bagger propaganda flyers.

[ErikJ]

21. Just tell them she was Atheist, Pro-choice and lived on SS and Medicare

And a certifiable psychopath.

[Capn Sunshine]

27. Remind them that she based her heroes on a murdering psychopath she had a crush on

Plus there's any number of writings here at DU on her completely bankrupt babble.

From http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Prophet%20451/168"> Prophet 451's journal:

There is another name for those who hold that the only proper moral consideration is the happiness of the self; for those who view empathy and compassion as weakness; who view selfishness as the only virtue: Psychopaths
Read it , it's very well done.

[Dr. Forrester]

29. I've always liked this quip.

There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.

Not mine, I would give credit if I could remember where and from whom I first read it, but it sums up my feelings on Rand nicely.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

31. Anyone older than 17 who takes Ayn Rand seriously is an idiot.

And I doubt that many of the 'baggers have ever actually finished any of her turgid, tendentious crapfests, because her books are not only badly-written, they are mind-destroyingly dull.

[jmowreader]

33. Atlas Shrugged hits the Trifecta of Unreadability

Badly Written

Mind-Destroying Dull

The Size of a Cinder Block

[Warren DeMontague]

34. Tell him you'll do it if he'll read Robert Anton Wilson.

I mean, why not?

[socialist_n_TN]

47. Or Trotsky........

:)

[shcrane71]

37. Are you trying to say that greed is not a pure and good emotion? Well that's 30 years down the tube

Guess we'll all have to get back to doing crazy things like sharing again.

[Quantess]

38. Sharing? Shut up and put some clothes on, hippy!

Sharing is for commies.

:D I wonder how many people have me on ignore because I sometimes write stuff like this without adding a sarcasm tag? :D

[JoeyT]

39. That's one of the few advantages to being in the Bible Belt.

"You know Ayn Rand despised religion, including yours, right?" kills that argument stone dead more often than not. I usually launch a few quotes from her at them and tell them to look it up when they get home. Then I never hear about Rand from that person again.

There's at least one potshot at religion in all her books, which means the people pestering me about it haven't ever actually bothered to read any of those books. They just saw quotes someone sent them that they liked the sound of.

Edited to add: I read a few of her books back in high school and I'd rather give myself a vasectomy with a belt sander than read another one. Worst. Books. Ever.

[Kalidurga]

40. I read maybe four pages of Atlas Shrugged...

it was horrible. I hope that it was a bad translation.. or did she write it in English? In any case I found it to be horribly written. This was before I knew that Ayn Rand was a grifting sociopath and that conservatives worship her...

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

45. She wrote in English. Can't blame a translator for the shitty writing.

Granted, English wasn't her native language, but she was desperately in need of a good editor. My guess would be that she didn't allow any editing, arrogant cow that she was.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NMMNG]

42. Ayn Rand: Tragically bad writer and apologist for

corporate fat-cats and pathological selfishness. It's no wonder she's become the darling of the teahadists.

[Vinca]

43. You should have asked why Rand collected SS & Medicare at the end of her life.

[southernyankeebelle]

44. What is nuttie is Rand was a non-believer of Jesus. Wonder how many of these

baggers realize that?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

46. She wasn't just a non-believer. She actively despised Christianity

because Jesus said you should give to undeserving poor people.

[Arctic Dave]

48. Whoever edited that book should have been fed to fire ants.

To say it was soul crushingly redundant is an understatement. It took me a month to read it because of it's tedious, boring plot.

[Iris]

49. I saw an elderly man reading one of her books the other day and thought to myself

that's just tragic. I figured he was reading it b/c of teabaggers. It's a book that should be read in high school and left there.

[rugger1869]

51. I have an inherited copy

that I use as a doorstop. Best use of this drivel that I can think of, other than producing warmth this winter.