My father in law was in the hospital for three weeks and just got a bill for 1 million.

[onehandle]

No surgery. He will be having that in a couple of weeks.

How has it come to this?

(More info in post #26)

[dkf]

1. Exactly. How is Medicare supposed to keep up with this? Crazy.

[defendandprotect]

43. Only by having Congress re-regulate corporations .... and MEDICARE FOR ALL ... w/negotiation!!

[dkf]

44. But keeping it as is so you can make sure there are "no cuts" is not the smart fight.

[defendandprotect]

71. If you're talking about Medicare, you have to stop CORPORATE crime ....

it's not the little guy stealing from Medicare -- it's the private h/c industry.

[cui bono]

133. Keeping what as is? What is your point? You seem to be advocating

against Medicare.

[vets74]

177. COMMUNITY HEALTH CENTERS (FQHCs) solve the Medicare $$$$$ problem.

The CHC's are like civilian VAMCs.

Standardize on OpenVistA and the VA processes -- you'd be 75% of the way there.

[vets74]

175. Trun the whole country over to VETERANS ADMINSTRATION MEDICAL CENTERS.

Seriously.

One-third the cost, procedure to procedure or illness to illness.

Better outcomes.

I was talking to a Canadian yesterday afternoon. I told him I've got Canadian health care in America. About 100% of it.

He chuckled at the VA card.

Btw: we knew that MoveOn.org was in the tank on health care when they never, ever demanded comparison of what we've got for private-profit mess with the VAMC and clinic system.

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. Sadly wallectomies are the rule any longer

[handmade34]

3. awful

my dad and stepmom were in an accident last spring... totaled the car but they were not really hurt... ambulance told them they should go to hospital for just check-up

bill a month later =$30,000

something is seriously wrong here

[Gregorian]

4. lWhat the... Please tell us what it consisted of.

A million is... Jeesus. I'm having a hard time believing this.

[BeyondGeography]

5. My Mom's two- or three-day hospital bill for a hip replacement was $57,000

Fuck this place.

[sarcasmo]

8. I hear yea, give me the Canadian system any day.

[rurallib]

6. fleecing while they can I'd guess

knowing full well that soon someone (government) will stand up to them.

[RaleighNCDUer]

184. What makes you think that?

The government just put in place a 'reform' that ensures insurance company profits for the foreseeable future and no cost controls.

That's not exactly 'standing up to them'.

[Mimosa]

7. They raise the prices to pay for Medicaid and Medicare shortfalls

Treating Medicaid and medicare patients usually costs more than what the government reimburses. Treating the uninsured is also expensive. So everybody with insurance is charged more. My MD pals have told me the hospitals and clinics usually 'settle up' with insurers for a smaller percentage of the official bills we see.

Hospitals and clinics are also 'for profit'. I don't think that's all bad as long as we're not being gouged.

[eridani]

17. Yes, it is all bad, for the same reasons a for-profit fire department is all bad

Americanhealth care business model

[reggie the dog]

111. in France it would be illegal to not help the thirsty man

it is called "non aide à personne en danger" and you would go to jail for not helping a fellow human.

[EC]

117. Here it would be argued that the salesman WAS

offering assistance and the thirsty guy just made the CHOICE not to buy the water.

[Enthusiast]

76. The for profit system has

shown itself to be a complete failure. We are being gouged. And Medicare is being gouged continually. The only solution is a European style system. Even though each Western European system is different, they all share one thing -they are superior to the American for-profit system.

[Lars77]

154. As a European studying in the US, this is a topic i spend a lot of time on

I was on a commuter train in Chicago with some friends going into downtown one Saturday morning.

The first person got talking to us because my German friends were speaking amongst themselves, and he wanted to practice his German. After a while a lot of the American folks around us were listening in, being bored on the train.
Finally one young african-american man asked us if we have really have "socialized medicine" in Europe. I say yes, but we prefer to call it Universal Healthcare.

I proceeded to explain that i have had knee surgery and shoulder surgery after accidents back home and have never been asked to pay a cent. And while in Germany i had a bicycle crash, went to a German hospital and paid 10 Euros for using the German healthcare system as a Norwegian. I could have the 10 euros reimbursed from my own country if i wanted to. The only paper i signed was to confirm that i did not specifically enter Germany for healthcare. I saw a doctor in ten minutes.

At this point everyone in the car were listening in, and one woman concluded out loud that Americans were getting screwed.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

164. Even more striking

A friend of mine was in a car accident in Costa Rica. She didn't require hospitalization, but she was seen in the ER, had X-rays, had a cast put on her broken ankle, was given pain pills, and sent on her way. The charge? Only $15 for the crutches.

[Enthusiast]

171. Incredible!

But but but, where was the profit? :sarcasm:

[Enthusiast]

169. The woman was right.

And more Americans are waking up to this fact even in the face of MASSIVE media misinformation to the contrary. The American health care system is compromising our entire economy! It is also causing great suffering in the name of excess profit -just the opposite purpose of a health care system.

Thank you for your contribution.

[coalition_unwilling]

170. Capitalism has shown itself to be a complete failure. The for-profit

healthcare system is but one manifestation of capitalism. If capitalism is so great at allocating resources, then how come the U2 unemployment rate in California is still 12% and U6 no doubt 25%?

Come on, defenders of capitalism, explain how you can let 1/4 of the adult population lay idle.

Capitalism works great for the 1% (and works tolerably well for the top 10%). Sucks for the bottom 90% though and will continue to suck.

[Gormy Cuss]

102. The "official bills" are structured to pad in as much money as possible

in anticipation of payment of only a percent by private insurers. As you noted, many hospitals are for-profit. If bills reflected cost, how would those hospitals make a profit when the majority of bills end up with negotiated reductions?

Medicare and Medicaid reimbursable rates are much closer to the true cost than that artificially inflated billing.

[smaug]

125. If so, then

why do I get hammered with thousands of bills that 'aren't covered' by my insurance -- dunned by hospitals and doctors alike? It's why I'm totally in favor of a socialist health care system -- and I make that point loud and clear to my reTHUGlikklan representatives! (Including the ones with 'D' by their name in the book).

Sheesh.

[lbrtbell]

9. Unbridled greed

Doctors more concerned about their portfolios than their patients. That's what drives health care costs sky-high.

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. It's not the doctors actually

More and more are salary personnel working for medical practices owned by large for profit corps. Yes, a few of them are nominally owned by nominal doctors, Frist anyone? But it is not the vast majority of MDs.

[KathieG]

29. True. I broke my leg last year and had to have surgery...

My total bill was around $24,000 and only $1,700 of that was the surgeon which included the surgery and 4 office visits. The anesthesiologist (affiliated with the hospital)charged almost 5,000 and the rest was all hospital charges including 5,000 for the operating room, 5,000 for one hour in a "recovery room" (large room with several patients in it separated by curtains), and other miscellaneous charges. It's crazy.

[JCMach1]

69. It is, however, the whole system and doctors are part of that...

Doctors are paid much less in the rest of the world...

Pharmaceuticals are radically less>>


AND ON AND ON>>>

[nadinbrzezinski]

149. Check the differentials in pay

Between recent graduates and older doctors. There is a reason the AMA is scared shitless of these young radicals who want reform.

[txlibdem]

16. GP's make around $200k a year, "Specialists" make over $600k a year

And rising. The hospital adds its 50% or 100% on top of any money your care actually cost them. And that is called FOR-PROFIT MEDICINE.

My solution:
1. GP's get a free education and a free house, paid for by the tax payers. Then they get a fair wage based on keeping the nearby population healthy -- no more "fee for service."

2. Specialists also get a free education and a free house, also paid for by the tax payers. On top of that they get a fair wage based on the outcome of their service to the patient: if they get better they get paid more, if they don't then they get paid nothing for that patient's entire course of treatment.

3. For-profit hospitals would be banned and they would be audited regularly to ensure that they were not charging more than they should.

Why not?

AND -- SINGLE PAYER... NOW!!!

/edited to add #3 and everything that follows.

[dsc]

28. I wouldn't want to be a doctor who treats pancreatic cancer under your model

and I wouldn't take on too many patients who had complicating factors and or a history of non compliance with doctor's orders.

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. The uk does pay specialists partially under this model

It is not per patient but the whole body of patients. Watch Sicko for the executive summary of this.

[Diclotican]

83. nadinbrzezinski

nadinbrzezinski

I remember that Moore was afraid of telling of the scandinavian model, specially becouse most americans would belive he was telling a outright lie, so he had to "senur" part of it, for the american public!..

Diclotican

[RegieRocker]

89. It is the truth. He should've told it like out is.

[Diclotican]

95. RegieRocker

RegieRocker

Wel, it was under W, and you can educate the american public "just so mutch" about others posibility... And the RW in the US, was verry able to lie, sheat and then tell some more lies when it came to the idea of public healtcare paid for by taxes, and free of sharge when needed...

Diclotican

[RegieRocker]

96. You betcha.

What is up with the huckleberry text?

[1monster]

158. Diclotican lives in Norway. English is a second language. He may make some

spelling errors (and given the vagaries of the English language, who could blame him?) but always is easy to understand.

[Mimosa]

163. Totally agree.

Not presenting the functioning European systems of health care was a major flaw in Sicko.

[nadinbrzezinski]

104. I know, but our right wing is finally losing strenth.

Keep the faith that society will evolve out of this.

[txlibdem]

66. I'm not an encyclopedia for the AMA so there may be things I don't know about medicine

I take it from your post that the survival rate is low. Perhaps that is partially due to the for-profit Big Pharma industry that only wants to make "treatments" and medicines that you have to take for the rest of your life. When is the last time you've heard of Big Pharma actually CURING a disease or malady? Damn few and damn far apart, I'll tell you that.

Of course there would be allowances made by the right people for survival rates, etc.

PS, if there were Universal Healthcare in the US maybe more cancers would be caught early enough to avoid it being a death sentence by the time it's discovered.

[nadinbrzezinski]

99. No, there are simply some cancers

That are more deadly than others.

[txlibdem]

118. Did you misunderstand my previous post?

Let me clarify: a board of highly skilled doctors should be convened with a panel from the Universal Healthcare Department (that exists only in my wishes and dreams) to set a fair pay structure. They would take that into consideration as well as location and number of patients per doctor.

The main thing is that medical school should be 100% free and the tax payers should pay for their house (or perhaps it varies by geographic location and an amount of money is set aside to build or buy a house for them) but the root is that they should save a lot of expense via that method so they would be able to make less money and yet live as good or maybe even better lifestyle than they would have under the current system.

No insurance forms to fill out, no medical codes that change on a whim and are all different for each insurance provider, no more spending an entire day on the phone with a crooked insurance company trying to get paid for something that provided a positive outcome for the patient.

[nadinbrzezinski]

136. You are describing the medical system that exists within

The us military or the uk. It already exists, nothing new you are dreaming up...

[txlibdem]

138. I live in the USA and am proposing Universal Healthcare for America

But also, we have a shortage of doctors and nurses in this country and I'm just brain storming on how to fix that problem. A free education is, IMO, a good start. We give 100% scholarships for football players or other sports players so why in hades do we not do it for someone who is going to be providing a USEFUL service for the community such as doctors, nurses, scientists, engineers, etc.

[nadinbrzezinski]

146. Personally I'd extend free education to Ph.D or beyond in all fields

A historian offers just a valuable service as an engineer. I am also aware Thst to do that top marginal rates will have to goto 70% and mid rates to 50%. I am also aware that currently that is a dream in this country...

[txlibdem]

157. 100% agreed. Our priorities are 180 degrees off the mark.

[mainer]

127. Damn big pharma! Not curing death!

There are some things that are, quite simply, incurable. You can't blame Big Pharma for everything. Neither can you blame doctors for not keeping us alive past 120.

[sweetapogee]

165. I'm not an encyclopedia for the AMA so there may be things I don't know about medicine

But I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express in the Poconos last year!!!

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. Average pay, aka median, is not even close

If you are a certain cardiologist (from Houston) your income is in the millions

You also forget docs have to service a large debt and malpractice insurance.

Don't get me wrong, the system is broken and I'd extend free education to all university students. As to fair wage, let me take a guess and tell you that younger doctors would not mind either, if they were paid 100k (closer to the mean actually) and they didn't have those extra costs. This is why many are choosing corporate practices, lower pay but they cover malpractice.

Oh and this system you write for is already taking initial form....in the us military.

[Douglas Carpenter]

46. unfortunately most chronic patients will never really get better - the best that can be done most of

the time is to reduce the suffering and make life more tolerable with temporary symptomatic relief. Many treatments particularly for chronic or terminal illnesses have no guarantee of working at all. Some work 10% of the time and some work 90% of the time and most are somewhere in between. I wouldn't want to tell health care providers not to give it their best shot. But I do think the health care system should be socialized. Even a single-payers system that is matched with fee-for-service predatory capitalism is a recipe for disaster.

[txlibdem]

67. Your post is a denunciation of Big Pharma more that anything else

There is no profit in curing you: there are billions worth of profit if you need to take a medication that masks or treats your symptoms only. That is where the focus of Big Pharma is because they are a for-profit industry. That needs to be socialized as well.

[Douglas Carpenter]

70. unfortunately, many chronic conditions are the result of major organs being damaged beyond the point

or repair. For example most COPD is the result of the alveolar capillary membrane being damaged to such a point that there exist no possibility of rejuvenation. Finding a cure for such degeneration is not due to lack of trying. Somethings are simply not possible - at least within the limits of current scientific knowledge. Treating symptoms and relieving suffering is all that known science can provide for many conditions.

But I do agree that the pharmaceutical industry is reaping enormous profits that far exceed their investment into research. If research can be solely funded by government - that would certainly be a good thing. But it would require enormous investment. But yes I think the pharmaceutical industry should also be socialized.

[nadinbrzezinski]

106. Tell me how do you cure diabetes?

By the way research is underway, but currently how do you do it? No peeking at research journals.

[txlibdem]

119. Ah, the old attempting to get me to prove a negative. Very clever! (not)

You must know that the Big Pharma is not out to cure ANYTHING. They are focused almost entirely on making a pill that you have to take for the rest of your life: a pill that ameliorates the SYMPTOMS ONLY and does not cure.

Ask me how a piece of moldy bread cured disease.

Ask me how sailors who ate oranges or lemons/limes didn't get sick (disease prevention is, in my mind, as beneficial to society as a cure).

[nadinbrzezinski]

134. Thanks for playing

But big pharma is working on this sticky problem. Now looking at research, it don't involve drugs but transplants of the slet of langerhans cell inlets. It is stem cell research and I don't know about you, but I ain't got the facility to do that myself.

Sorry as a diabetic I pay attention and without my daily metmorfin i'd be pushing daisies a while ago,or so sick, I'd wish for that. You do know how it works right? Or that it is the oldest of a certain family of drugs currently sold as a generic world wide and actually fairly cheap. In fact profit/ pill is in the cent category. Next I will be told big pharma makes people sick.

I dislike the practices of more than a few companies, but I also understand modern medicine has made strides that yes, have increased life expectancy Et al. I also understand that things like digitalis were first used by Galen, in tea form a few years ago...as in a couple thousand. I guess Galen was part of the conspiracy. Oh and the aforementioned metmorfin, by the Aztecs in tea form.

[txlibdem]

144. I hope you do well with the diabetes, my mom had it and she lived to 84.

I understand that you are on the hamster wheel with your insulin shots and the meters and the test strips. All I'm saying is that the search for cures isn't a priority for Big Pharma. They are a for-profit industry. There is NO profit in curing diabetes so they are NOT going to do it. Some independent lab might, some university researcher might, but never from Big Pharma companies.

Please tell me one thing that Big Pharma has actually CURED in the past 20 years. Just one.

PS, I share your opinion about stem cell research. I believe that we are making huge strides and since we can now make as many as we want from your skin cells the pace of advancement in the field is going to quicken. PPS, I don't care where they come from but regrowing an organ is best done using your own cells, not a donor's.

[nadinbrzezinski]

152. The tools to cure chronic diseases are ten years old

Stem cell is on the way.

Now as to the big bugaboo, before big pharma developed insulin a type one diagnosis meant you died within two years. A type two meant five years.

That is but one disease.

They will find the cure and use it...it s not faith...it is the history of medicine.

Now what have they cured? Lemme think...insert vaccine here...like oh polio...what about small pox? I mean polio cases were a money pit...

[txlibdem]

161. I said what have they cured in the last 20 years

What I meant was: when was the medicine created that made that cure possible.

Here's a whistle blower, a Big Pharma staffer of 15 years:
http://www.smashcancer.com/2010/09/08/big-pharma-doesnt-want-to-cure-cancer-or-any-other-diseases/

[w8liftinglady]

176. I am seeing HIV patients live longer because of meds

in the early 90's, most of my HIV-pos patients died. Now,there is a line of drugs they take-anti-retrovirals- that are very expensive,but effective.I have had several patients over the last few weeks who have been HIV-pos for well over 10 years.
http://www.niaid.nih.gov/topics/hivaids/understanding/treatment/pages/default.aspx

[txlibdem]

191. Treatment of symptoms and NOT a cure - that is exactly the point I'm making

Yes, they've done some good for millions of people. But curing these diseases instead of getting you hooked on their drugs for life is far more preferable.

[txlibdem]

166. "like oh polio...what about small pox?" -- 1950 and 1796

Do you honestly give credit to Big Pharma for those cures??? PS, I said in the last 20 years anyway.

[nadinbrzezinski]

168. Yes actually

They still produce vaccines...

But whatever. My mind don't work the same way yours obviously does. Nor do I hate modern medicine for the sake of hating.

[txlibdem]

173. I understand your position.

You are free to form your own opinions. That's what's great about Democracy.

[truedelphi]

187. It is not just Big Pharma that is the problem - we spend something

Like 85% of the amount spent on any given patient in the last two years of their life.

So you have people that cannot possibly live long enough to justify the cost of the heart bypass surgery - yet there is all this squalling about killing granma and granpa should someone suggest that the person not have their surgery..

Meanwhile kids who are living in poverty often cannot get the care they need to survive till their teens with asthma and diabetes.

I remember this radio program that was covering the struggles of a family to get their ten year old a $ 40k operation so that he wouldn't lose his leg. That procedure was denied as the insurers said it was "experimental."

[nadinbrzezinski]

105. Actually things like cholesterol and diabetes can be treated

Life expectancy for a patient with sweet urine...that's how it was diagnosed oh not that long ago...was five years. My dad, with modern medicine, lived fifty plus years with it. I shoud be dead before the development of modern medicines as well.

[w8liftinglady]

174. Which will be the intent of my free clinic- catch em early on

diabetes,hypertension,copd...catch them young,treat them and teach them...before the ravages of the disease process push them beyond treatment.

[mainer]

53. What????

I don't know many specialists who make that much money here in Maine. What's this about a free house? Free education? Where are you getting this crap? No doctor gets a free house or free education unless they're in the military.

My husband and I left medicine and are doing much better OUTSIDE OF MEDICINE than we ever did inside it.

[txlibdem]

65. Those were my suggestions for how to fix the outrageously expensive system

Fee for service is not working for the patients. Some unscrupulous doctors are doing procedures to pad their bottom line so it's working fantastically for them, not very many I am sure but they are out there. I'm sorry that medicine didn't work out for you both but I appreciate your efforts to help people, obviously without "padding the bill."

In answer to your statement, my previous post contained suggestions for how to "fix" medicine in America.

Also, I believe they need to do away with the 36 hour rotations for interns. That is not a test of your skill as a doctor and caregiver, rather it's a test of your ability to function on little sleep. We're all wired differently as far as the amount of sleep our body actually needs and that practice may actually be discriminatory. For instance, if I don't get 8 full hours a night I am a zombie the next day but, given the proper training, I could have been an excellent doctor because I had a photographic memory -- gone alas even before my disability.

[Enthusiast]

77. I agree with you on the 36 hour rotations.

It doesn't "teach" an intern anything. It serves no tangible purpose.

[Lorien]

73. One GP I know makes 60k a year, the other makes about 85k

and he's with a group practice.

[txlibdem]

92. Sounds like he's not here in Dallas

My GP takes about about 40 patients a day, charges anywhere from $85 to $150 per patient. Do the math: My doctor takes about 2 weeks off during the year and is only open Monday thru Friday so he's working 247 days per year, the total earned per day is $3400 to $6000. That comes out to $839,800 to $1,482,000. He shared office space with 4 other doctors but even if he had to pay the entire cost of 5 employees I'm pretty sure he'd come out well in excess of $200,000.

So, if you're a doctor and money is what you are focused on then COME TO TEXAS. Tort reform has made it almost impossible to win a malpractice suit and your insurance rates should reflect that. 76% of lawsuits brought against corporations are ruled in the corporation's favor. Come to Texas and enjoy the benefits of Corporate Socialism.

[mainer]

98. He does not work just 40 yours a week, by the way

If he's on call, he's doing night rotations as well, and makes rounds on the weekends. Your view of what a doctor does reveals your unfamiliarity with the profession. You talk about income as if there's hardly any overhead. You forget malpractice insurance, you forget about the high administrative costs (and do you really think a doctor who charges $150 actually gets that from Medicare or Medicaid or private insurance companies? Medicare actually pays less than what's billed.

While I have no doubt that doctors in Texas do well, there's a lot more to the calculations than you realize.

[txlibdem]

124. I couldn't have made a better case for Universal healthcare if I tried. Thank you.

We need Universal Health care. Period.

[plunati43]

140. Universal Health Care?

That will be Socialism, and Socialism is "the absurd notion that tax dollars should be used for the
common good". Capitalism is better, kill the poor, enrich the rich.

[txlibdem]

151. Take a look at my sig line

We have Socialism in America. It's just not for you... nor for me.

[LanternWaste]

159. But not a case for unbridled greed of doctors as was the posit...

But not a case for unbridled greed of doctors as was the posit... :shrug:

[nadinbrzezinski]

107. How much does he pay employees, office space

And yes insurance. You are confusing gross with net...common mistake, I admit.

[txlibdem]

123. You got it. But when you start with a million it isn't too devastating to pay

for rent (shared medical building with several doctors), about 5 employees that probably make no more than 40k per year, all these expenses are shared by all the doctors.

[nadinbrzezinski]

132. The point is that he's not taking gross

Also Texas (I assume Houston) is an outlier when it comes to pay for md's.

It is also one of the worst outcomes per capita, which speaks volumes.

FYI the county besides Houston has costs that are not that high, and better outcomes.

[txlibdem]

150. I'm in Dallas if that's what you meant

Your post clearly illustrates the lack of any relationship between how much a doctor charges to how good he or she is.

That is why we need Universal Healthcare here in the USA, or at the very least an end to the "fee for service" model of care in favor of a more outcome-oriented pay structure.

[nadinbrzezinski]

153. My brother is number three in treating Chrons in the us

He works for the Cleveland clinic on salary. Dallas is the third most profitable market/ worst outcomes in the us. First is Houston, second is LA.

[txlibdem]

167. Yup. That's why I posted earlier, if a doctor wants money then move to Texas

Tons of cash for your service and "Tort Reform" to protect against lawsuits. Cha-Ching!!!

[nadinbrzezinski]

178. Two or three counties do not

Make the whole state.

As they say...shades of gray

[w8liftinglady]

182. Texas is alpha and omega

We may give more in the "fee-for-service" area.
We also lead the nation in uninsured adults and children.This leads to the discrepancy in numbers. Preventative care in a non-entity for a good proportion of Texans.Simple things like mammograms go undone until disease progresses.
I'm in complete agreement with you regarding universal health care...it is the only logical choice.

[nadinbrzezinski]

186. It is...in that we all agree...ok 70% of Americans.

[sulphurdunn]

185. $200 K is a very good living,

but it doesn't make you one of the uber rich. The problem isn't with doctor's incomes. The problem is with multimillion dollar compensation packages for parasitic and nearly useless health care CEOs.

[Sgent]

94. Specialist pay is wildly inaccurate

Although there are some that do, interventional cardiologists, cardiac surgeons, neurosurgeons, most make 300-400.

[KittyWampus]

108. Specialists get more if patient improves? Like Republicans want teachers paid more if student does

better?

[elias7]

93. I got billed $6,000 for my daughter's ER visit. MD charges: $800

It's not the MD's. It's a complex problem, made more difficult by the fact that CT's and MRI's and other procedures are much better at getting the answers to problems, but also infinitely more expensive. risk of lawsuits results in defensive medical practice, which results in more tests, referrals, etc. I agree hospitals should be non-profit, but it's not really an issue of MD greed. I'm an ED physician, and have had minor COLA's over the past 15 years, but I am no where near being a one per center. The costs you incur in the hospital are not primarily MD costs.

[irislake]

122. 73% of your doctors want single payer

Some were dragged off to jail during the hearings about Obama's health care. How silly, they thought they should have a voice. Google Dr. Flowers. The AMA is rotten but not most doctors.

[flamingdem]

10. Looking forward to changes with HCR in 2014

It's a start for further changes.

[Modern_Matthew]

11. WHAT THE HELL?! nt

[txlibdem]

12. These stories are scaring the bejesus out of me: I just turned 50 and I can feel

I'm disabled but I mean other things as well. It just makes me feel as though I'm in for a million dollar expense here in the near future. Thank you for OP and others' for posting!

It makes me want to defect to Canada or some other "real" country that takes care of its most valuable asset: its people.

Sad.

[KoKo]

19. I wouldn't let "this individual post" scare you. It lacks detail..but it's more true

that an "overnight surgery" can cost over $30,000 if you have health insurance. The OP didn't give enough detail...because NO ONE stays in hospital for three weeks these days in most major hospital cities.

I've asked the OP for more info.

[Mimosa]

20. Elderly nursing home patients on occasion do.

At least in my past experience when I was a volunteer to help the elderly.

Sometimes a nursing home patient may be malnourished, have necrotic bedsores and would die if sent back. Sometimes doctors are compassionate and bend rules to help them.

[KoKo]

31. Are you current with this. Might have been true over 10 years ago...but, none

of the elderly in my family have stayed in hospital over five days in the last 10 years. They go home, to Hospice or Rehab. They don't let you hang around because of the "germs, restrictions on Medicare Payouts..indidvidual supplements, or the Hospital Board "Utilization Review Team" feels it's best to get you out and outsourced to other facilities.

Sad to say...had to deal with this with aging family intensively the past few years. :-( In some ways it's a far better system because those who needed REHAB got it earlier in other facilities that weren't hospitals...and others got to go to Hospice (a much more humane way of dying than in hospital) or they went home where family who had resources could nurse them through last days or with help that they could do with incare support survices.

It's a mixed bag.

[Mimosa]

35. Thanks for the info.

I'm not current.

[Horse with no Name]

59. I was in the hospital that long with H1N1 flu

You just have to continue to meet certain criteria before they turf you to an alternate facility.

[Mimosa]

22. Yes, but 'other countries' won't take over 50 Americans

Not unless we already have PLENTY of money.

We can't flee, so we'd better make things better here! ;)


I'm scared too, Txlibdem. Really scared. :(

[Paka]

116. Not true.

I am 70+ years of age and I retired to Thailand, because I can live on my social security ($700/month) and still save money. My biggest benefits are first class medical and dental that I can easily pay for out-of-pocket. They have a dual system of both government hospitals and private hospitals. The same doctors work in both systems, so the care is equal, the only difference is that the private hospitals charge about three times what the government hospitals do and for that you get VIP perks like a bigger room, more meal choices, etc. I have cataracts in both eyes and glaucoma in my right eye so I get monitored every six months and the full battery of tests costs me $6.00. I had minor eye surgery last year and the cost was just under $15.00. :hi:

[whistler162]

24. What story?

The OP basically said "Once upon a time the end."

No information on what the 3 week stay involved.

[ingac70]

13. He needs to ask for an itemized bill....

there will be things such as $10 rolls of toilet paper and double, triple, even quadruple billing of procedures and diagnostic tests.

[meow2u3]

14. Send the bill to the Wall Street banksters

They can afford to pay for it.

[KoKo]

18. How could he have been in the hospital for Three Weeks? They don't allow that

anywhere that I know of...even WITH SURGERY! They ship you off to Rehab or Home as fast as they can get you outta there?

What was you "father-in-law's ailment?"

Having been through much surgery incidents in the last few years with family...your story sounds quite bizarre as to the norm in most areas of the US for Patients these days.

If you don't mind sharing more...your experience seems to be "way outside the norm." And, our family is filled with Health Care Employees and folks in Medical Field and Big Pharma and Hospitals.

Not the norm ...at all. :shrug:

[onehandle]

26. He was in a rehab unit for the last ten days.

Regardless, a cool million.

He has an infection in his colon that spread all around outside his liver and had pneumonia. Tons of MRIs, drainages, oxygen, tests of every kind.

They were sure it was cancer in his liver at first. Thankfully, not.

[KoKo]

32. Does he have Insurance? What kind or none?

Thanks!

[onehandle]

33. United Healthcare with 6k deductible/Medicare Part A.

Unclear at this point what is actually covered, but my post was about the total itself.

A million bucks before surgery.

I spent 33 grand on a car a couple of weeks ago. Up until today, that seemed like a lot of money.

[KoKo]

39. It is atrocious...would have thought Hospital had some agreement with United Health Care, though.

Most Hospitals today are so strict about what they get and the Doctor knows, too. But, you may be in a small area that the doctor you had wasn't aware of the implications and you didn't know to ask.

What was the condition that he was in the hospital for for three weeks that ran up these huge bills. Sounds to me like you might need a lawyer because this isn't the way it works out there in the bigger cities.

Plus he did have Medicare Part A...and that should have some restrictions on hospital stay without any diagnosis or surgery. I expect most of it would be covered even though it sounds overly expensive. Without condition it's hard to still know. You need to check his Part A Plan and his Medicare to see what is covered.

[stevenleser]

145. Will be interesting to know what ends up being covered when everything sorts itself out.

Keep us informed. Good luck to you and your father in law. :hug:

[KamaAina]

142. At this point, it hardly matters.

Most of today's crappy policies have a $1 million lifetime benefit cap. No one ever thinks much about that -- until something like this happens. :scared:

[KoKo]

40. BTW ...my 90 year old Dad Broke hip...Hospital 5 Days and two weeks in Rehab...

and all was covered by his Medicare plus a supplemental policy. So...probably your dad will be okay with coverage...even though the fee seems more excessive than my Dad's...my Dad was 10 years ago..and he was in a place with a big med and rehab centers that after the 5 days hospital they wanted him out to get Rehabed so he wouldn't stay in there in bed and never get better. He did very well with the rehab and lived 6 more years walking fine after the therapy the Rehab Center gave him. It was almost all paid for except about $500.00 out of pocket.

[Tess49]

68. I work in a hospital and know with certainty that long stays happen frequently.

At least that is the case where I live. I see many patients who are in ICU for a week or so, then transferred to a step down unit (PCU) and then to a regular floor for more time. One of my good friends had two hospitalizations this year that kept him in the hospital for a lengthy stay of over two weeks each time. It's more common than you realize. Granted, these patients are seriosly ill, but still, it is not uncommon.

[SheilaT]

160. Sometimes people are in the hosptial

for several weeks.

I work the information desk at my local hospital, and I notice those kinds of things. Yes, most patients are hustled out absurdly fast, but sometimes (and I'm never in a position to know exactly why) they stay much longer.

[Initech]

21. I'd be curious to know how much the actual procedures are and what percentage is inflated for profit

[DURHAM D]

23. not buying it...

[The Straight Story]

36. How about 97k for 3 days? W/image

(not someone I know, trying doing a google image search and hospital bills, not really too hard - if ya need help let me know)

[mile18blister]

62. Try 310K for 5 days in the hospital 6 years ago.

That was for knee replacement surgery and didn't include any doctors fees. Sorry I no longer have the bill to prove it. (I don't have insurance but managed to settle for a small fraction.)

[girl gone mad]

81. How did you manage to settle?

I am sure many here would appreciate any advice that you could offer.

[mile18blister]

86. I found out there was a pre-paid cash price of only 16K.

After much begging and explaining my financial situation, I managed to convince them to let me pay this price if I immediately wrote a check and took it to the hospital. The cash price is probably what they charge Medicare.

How I got myself into this situation is a long story. I consider myself extremely luck that it worked out.

[tinrobot]

131. That's extortion, plain and simple.

It probably cost them less than $16K in actual expenses, yet they're trying to charge 20 times that because someone was sick an in need of immediate care.

[Posteritatis]

80. Yargh, that's obscene

I still haven't seen the bill from a CT scan I needed a few years ago, and won't because there isn't one forthcoming. I don't comprehend at all how people put up with a system that has invoices like the one you posted there, nevermind how people defend and advocate for it.

[Javaman]

101. And I don't believe you. nt

[stevenleser]

147. Because...???

[DURHAM D]

183. The OP didn't bother to post the full fact situation.

Like the patient is on Medicare. Medicare will take any bill and reduce it by a massive percentage - like 60 or 70 percent.

The OP was just being an alarmist.

Also, when you are on Medicare I don't believe they give the patient a bill before they present it to Medicare.

[Posteritatis]

188. So it wouldn't be alarmist if he'd said the bill was a measly $100,000/week? (nt)

[TheCowsCameHome]

25. Any chance of posting a brief breakdown of the charges?

That is one scary bill. Wow.

[L0oniX]

27. United was billed $46,000 for my wifes stay in a hospital over the weekend.

No surgery ...just tests.

[KoKo]

34. How much is covered by whatever you have, though. That's what we need to know...

Hubby had a $5,000 Emergency room bill two years ago when he fell on rock in yard while digging to plant rosebush and was in agony. Went and waited two hours...had x-ray, seen by Doc...sent him home with a "boot" and "crutch" and for about four hours of time an x-ray and two pieces of equipment it was $5,000. We are self employed and it costs $20,000 a year for both of us (neither of us have health care issues) and the $5,000 was payed for by insurance. But, that year we paid $20,000 to Blue-Cross Blue-Shield as "Self-Employed" for $5,000 of Emergency Room treatment. What kind of cost advantage is that for Insurance Companies. I have to hope that the other $15,000 we paid helped out someone else who needed the money.

What we've learned is to try to use "EmergiCare" Facilities. It works if you live in a large city, though...not if you are rural and in pain in the middle of the night or on Sunday and are stricken with something that needs attention.

[Liberal_in_LA]

48. amazing.

[Odin2005]

30. That's f-ed up!

[midnight]

41. Outrages.... You might want to see who lobbies Baucus.

http://baucus.senate.gov/ He helped his former aid now insurance lobbyist have all the input into how Americans would have access and be charged...

[Sarah Ibarruri]

42. Wall Street and its power over our country andalmost all politicians nt

[Turn CO Blue]

45. Yes, my mom's bill for 17 days was $441,000 - seven yrs ago

So a one million dollar bill would be about right. She did not make it :(

My signature was on the paperwork. If it weren't for posthumous medicaid, I would have been sunk and my kids too, huh? I thank dog every time I think about it for Medicaid.


I repeat the OP - HOW HAS IT COME TO THIS?!

That was more than I had earned in my entire life. Certainly more than my mom had made in her entire life.

[Liberal_in_LA]

49. did your signature mean that her hospital bill was your responsibility?

[Turn CO Blue]

55. Yes, it would have been - except we had a great advocate

It's a very long story - that 17 days was like 17 years... mom started out in the county hospital - and we sneaked her out (literally and dramatically, discovered on the way out , and with guards chasing us)against medical advice and took her to the private hospital. I had to. I wanted the best care.

One day I will write about it; but it was like moving to the Ritz from the Super 8.

Seven years and I still have a hard time talking about it...

Long story short, the super-fancy hospital had an advocate and social worker whose job it was to assist me in filing claims on my mom's behalf. It was clear (even to me) what the outcome would be by the 13th day.

Anyway, the turning point in the financial worries was the interview with this lady. Mom had obviously been unable to work for over a year and only had 17% lung capacity - telling her this assisted with our claims.

And she was so efficient and also tender; honestly, the nicest person I've ever dealt with. Should have taken weeks - it was done and approved in four days.

[Liberal_in_LA]

61. it's great to find an advocate like that.

[Liberal_in_LA]

50. did your signature mean that her hospital bill was your responsibility?

[Liberal_in_LA]

47. small recent surgery resulted in bills totally $20,000, insurance took care of most of it

small outpatient surgery.

[Pacifist Patriot]

90. The bills started coming in about a week or so ago for an outpatient surgery I had in August.

If we did not have my husband's insurance, which means $275 out of pocket, we would be trying to find around $25,000. No, I take that back. I'd be putting up with foot pain because we just wouldn't have $25,000 to fix the problem.

[jwirr]

51. The government sets the prices they will pay the doctors. Do you

know if this bill is what the hospital asked for or what the government actually paid?

[distantearlywarning]

52. I believe it.

I had a routine outpatient surgery in 2009. Operation was a couple of hours, and I had a couple of hours in the recovery room. I was there from about 6 am to 1 pm or so. Not even 8 hours worth of care.

Total bill = $40,000

Luckily, my insurance covered everything but a $1000 deductible. Where I live, 40K is enough to buy a decent home in a safe neighborhood.

So I can totally believe that a 3 week hospital stay would cost a million dollars.

[krispos42]

54. Well, obvoiusly he should have shopped around and gotten a bargin.

An ironclad quote would have been appropriate and only taken a few hours per medical facility.



And, doubtless, if he had simply set aside $7,000 a year throughout his lifetime in lieu of purchasing health insurance, he'd be able to to pay this out-of-pocket. No problem.



See, I know this because the teabaggers told me so.

[NYC_SKP]

56. If only he'd had a medical savings account.

:sarcasm:

[onehandle]

57. He's a very, very active Democrat in North Carolina.

And a nice guy. If a teabagger tried to sell him that shit, he would calmly explain why they were wrong.

[krispos42]

64. Heh. If they aren't getting it by now, they're never going to get it.

You will be born helpless. You will not shed this helplessness until nearly 20, even if you were born with no genetic condition that requires treatment or correction.


You will grow old. You will develop illnesses and conditions, heart attacks and strokes. You will need medicines and surgery and therapy. Eventually, you will be unable to care for yourself anymore and have to move into a nursing home.


Along the way, you might catch a serious disease or get injured in a car accident, work accident, or from a recreational activity such as baseball or sex.


So everybody pays from every dime they make so everybody is covered from conception to grave. And the only entity that can do that for the duration of the United States of America, with your best interests in mind and without the need for profit to diminish that care, is the Federal government.

By taking care of the bureaucratic part, the eternal, unchanging, non-innovative business of processing paperwork and moving around money, to the Federal government, we keep the costs down and the treatments up.

And by the Federal government having medical records centralized, statistical analysis of treatments and illnesses can be performed, leading to better use of medical resources and even lower costs.




Six short paragraphs. If they can't comprehend that by now... it's hopeless.

[Enthusiast]

78. "You will not shed this helplessness until nearly 20"

LOL! Ain't that the truth!

I'm all for your system.

[krispos42]

63. I just did the math on that

http://apps.finra.org/Calcs/1/Savings

$7,000 a year for 40 years at a 5% rate of return with inflation at 1.8%.

After 40 years, you have $887,878.34, or adjusted for inflation, $434,953.01.

So that $435k, combined with shopping around, triple coupons, holiday sales, and use of your father's frequent-buyer card, would have enabled him to afford this!



:sarcasm:

[Aerows]

58. Medical care prices are TOO DAMN HIGH

Until we address the destructive impact of insurance companies on the prices of our health care, and bring the prices lower, we are chopping off a person's foot because their toenails are too long.

[Donnachaidh]

60. when we had our son almost two deaceds ago our bill from 1 hospital was a quarter million

Mainly due to a MISdiagnosis of a non-existing heart condition. We had to threaten mass lawsuits to get him to UCLA for a second opinion.

This theft of our health by the medical industrial complex has been going on for years.

[Lorien]

72. WTF??? Was his hospital bed located in the Four Seasons?

What procedures occurred that the hospital felt justified in charging him that much?

[seabeyond]

88. point. we had a redue of one of our hospitals. looks like a damn four seasons

people standing in spots to direct and guide. didnt feel like a hospital. walking thru i though, get rid of all this stuff and bring the costs down.

[Lorien]

74. A good friend's sister has been fighting stage one lymphoma

she's a lawyer, as is her husband, and they have excellent insurance. To date their copays add up to over 150k for her treatments. She said that if she didn't have "first class" health insurance they would be bankrupt by now.

[sfpcjock]

75. It's ridiculous. Every little thing is $2,000.

An MRI cost $1,500 to $3,000 in the U.S.. In Japan it costs $100-$150. Something is fucked up.

[Enthusiast]

79. Profit. That is what is fucked up.

Why does our government treat us like the enemy?

[Diclotican]

82. onehandle

onehandle

The more I read about this horrible hospital news there over in the US, The more happy Im over that I live in a country, where the healtcare (when needed) is free of sharge - we might pay a lot more in taxes than in the US, but we also get "free healtcare" when needed...

One million US dollar, for 3 weeks in hospital?. Whas he living the high life with a hospital of pure gold???..

Once I was hospitalized for a week, becouse I was really sick.. I got home, with zero bill.. just a wish that I would be better soon.. (And I was little off for a week and even tho the hospital was great, it was better to be home when the worst was over) Of course I had paid my taxes for many years, So I guess I had paid into the whole thing up front:

Diclotican

[leftyladyfrommo]

84. When my brother was in hospital we figured it came to $1,000 an hour.

or close to $25,000 a day. Doesn't take long to really add up. A couple of hours and I would be broke.

[Vinca]

85. What on earth can they do that costs a million bucks for 3 weeks?

I'd demand solid gold replacement parts. Yikes! The only thing that is going to get medical costs to stop rising is government regulation . . . preferably via Medicare for all. If that doesn't happen, it'll just continue until each and every one of us is broke after a trip to the hospital.

[mod mom]

87. People have no idea until they incur major medical expenses.

[harun]

103. Exactly, just had Appendectomy, 42K. In hospital 4 days.

However, with my insurance they have an agreement with the providing institution so they don't pay nearly that much. They end up paying them 13K.

[mod mom]

110. Hubbie had a incomplete spinal cord injury:

2 weeks in intensive care, 2 major neuro-surgeries( 6+ hours each), 1 minor bladder surgery, 2 months in a spinal cord rehab facility and then 5 months of retraining (2 hours/day 5 days/week with 5 physical therapy specialists which thankfully was partially underwritten by the Christopher Reeves Foundation). We would have lost everything if we didn't have good insurance and even then dished out a lot. All from a fall on an unlevel segment of sidewalk.

The last thing loved ones need in a time of stress caring for an ill relative/friend is worrying about the finances. This is why I am so angry about Obama's handling of HC. They attempt to use it as a win when in fact they caved in to corporate pressure.

[Doctor_J]

91. This would make an excellent sign at OWS n/t

[econoclast]

97. How did we get here? A thought experiment ...

Imagine if supermarkets worked as follows ...

The entire stock of supermarkets consists of identical, sealed cardboard boxes labeled FOOD.

What's inside? You can't tell. Might be red beans and rice. Might be ears of corn and apples. Might be steaks and lobster tails. No way to tell until you get home and open the box.

How much does a box cost? You don't know that either. When you go to the checkout they take your credit card number and process a charge.... But you don't know how much the charge is until your credit card bill comes in the mail.

That seems utterly bizarre. But that is pretty much how our health care system works.

Is the doctor any good? Is the treatment/test you are about to get necessary? How much will it cost? Is there someone else who provides it cheaper...or better? You don't know and have little opportunity to find out before hand.

There is NO free market for health care. A free market assumes that you KNOW what you are buying and how much it costs. In health care we know neither at the time of purchase. IF there was a free market in health care, providers would have an incentive to find ways to provide better product at lower costs. Because consumers would reward them by shifting their purchases to those cheaper/better products. But in our current system where consumers of health care are - at the point of purchase - BLIND to both price and quality, no provider has any incentive to provide either!

As consumers we have lots more information available about the cars or cell phones or computers we purchase than about the doctors and hospitals we use.

No surprise then that the prices are crazy and quality sucks.

[TheKentuckian]

189. The thing we can't really be consumers of health care because there is little way to know

what we need because we must react to injuries and ailments.

We certainly have little option to be "wise" consumers of health care because most of us are not doctors and certainly aren't specialists, we pretty much have to go with the experts. The idea of comparing health services to cars, shoes, computers, or cell phones is absurd.
The free market is for blue jeans and cars not spinal surgery and cancer treatments.

[meegbear]

100. Contact your local Fox affiliate ...

use their OH MY GOD! OH MY GOD! OH MY GOD! style of journalism to your advantage.

[polly7]

109. I honestly don't know anyone can handle these bills.

Even a three night stay, if I had to pay for it, would wipe me out. I can't even imagine having to worry about being financially destroyed at the same time a loved one is going through diagnostic and treatment hell. The stress alone must lessen chances of recovery. It's just not right.

[JuniperLea]

112. Someone has to pay for the Republican health care plan...

You know,the one W told us about... the one where you just show up at the emergency room and wait your turn.

[BrendaBrick]

113. "Medical Tourism"

Onehandle, sorry to hear about your FIL.

I think it was earlier this year I saw a piece on 60 minutes about something called "Medical Tourism:" (Video is about 13 minutes)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJCyaVkR7Lg

Bumrungrad International Hospital:

http://www.bumrungrad.com/thailandhospital

Evidently there is a conference next week in Chicago Oct 25th - 28th: "4th World Medical Tourism & Global Healthcare Congress:"

http://www.medicaltourismcongress.com/

And just a general link: Medical Tourism.com:

http://medicaltourism.com/

[barbtries]

114. jeezus christ.

this is BAD. i'm thinking if i get sick i might not bother trying to get well because i would like to leave something for my children.

[Dont call me Shirley]

115. Hospitals for profit, like disgusting Bill Frist's Humana hospitals

[irislake]

120. I was in hospital for three months and I saved money

because everything was 100% covered and I didn't have to pay for food or gas for my car. A friend of mine joked. "How much money did you save?" No joke. I saved a bundle.

You need to march on Wall Street ASAP and get rid of all your crooked politicians in both parties.

What a crime. I don't know why Americans have been willing to stand for so much until now.

And it's not as if Americans believe "socialized medicine" is evil. Noam Chomsky points out a huge majority of Americans want single payer health care. Your political system just doesn't work for anybody but the top 1%.

BUT my visitors had to pay a lot to park in the hospital parking lot.

[Swede Atlanta]

121. That doesn't surprise me........

I was in for a colectomy to remove a colon cancer tumor last year. They were able to do laproscopic surgery but even at that I was in the hospital for 5 days. Total bill from the hospital was over $50K whereas my surgeon's actual billed amount (not the amount negotiated with the insurance company) was under $5K. The anesthesia group billed out more than the actual surgeon. It is crazy.

On the other hand we will have to accept that health care must be rationed. It is rationed today by insurance companies that refuse to pay for certain treatments or by poverty. Regardless of what those on the right tell you, it is not an indisputable fact that if you are sick and go to the hospital you will be treated even without money or insurance. You may have to go from hospital to hospital until you find one that is still treating the uninsured. Further those that don't get preventive care are more likely to need substantial care when something that could have been prevented or treated at an early stage becomes cancerous or complications set in.

[Altoid_Cyclist]

126. This is from two years ago, but it still points out the disparity between the US and German systems.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6424463

Summary: My German BIL had to have a very extensive surgical procedure invovlving orthopedic, vascular, neurological and whatever else teams took part in the ~14 - 15 hour operation.

He also had to spend 7 weeks in the hospital recovering.

Total charges to the patient were ~ $20 for the surgery and $10 / day for the hospital stay.

Evil "socialist" health care system... :sarcasm:

[RKP5637]

128. The name of this country should be changed to "Ripoff Haven, Inc." None is

really interesting in changing this. For the most part we have bought/bribed politicians and a SCOTUS that embraces it all and provides us with Citizens United. And too many citizens are bred as sheep to follow the dictates/agenda/system. For many, it's always the other guys problem. It's a very strange place. And, the will of the citizens is ignored. It's not going away, but will get worse and worse IMO.

[bongbong]

129. Outrageous

That's insane. In contrast, a member of my family had major surgery + a 3 week hospital stay in a private room at a hospital (one always ranked in the top 5 in the USA) in 1973.

Total cost, for everything: FOUR THOUSAND, (something) HUNDRED, DOLLARS. That was the TOTAL cost of EVERYTHING. Naturally, back in those days insurance picked up 100% of EVERYTHING.

[northoftheborder]

130. I'm old enough to remember when the medical "system" was not like it is today.

Usually, my doctors each had their own office. Not many shared practices. He had a receptionist, and a nurse. He probably also had an accountant. No stable of "insurance" staff dealing with the insurance, because insurance did not cover doctor's visits, it was for hospital only. And it always covered nearly everything in the hospital. I remember a specialist's bill in the early 1970's cost $6.00.

[nichomachus]

143. Same here -- and I had to go to the ER once

I had to be stitched up -- the bill was $65.

[rdking647]

135. what i would do in that case

id sell all my assets.. then id take a trip to some nice warm island.. and open an account there..

then Id send a letter to the hospital telling them where to put their bill... even if the hospital tried to come after me for the bill what could they do.. my assets would be safely out of their reach.

[lovuian]

137. Americans are paying more money for crappy care

than most industrialized care
and its a fallacy we give great care

It benefits a for profit hospital to make you sicker because you stay longer

[Liberal Veteran]

139. The GOP thinks he should have a 1 million tucked away in an HSA to cover the costs.

And if he didn't, he is an irresponsible layabout parasite on the system.

For the life me, I do not understand the GOP mindset.

[notadmblnd]

141. a million? Thats a 1 with 6 zeros

And he didn't have surgery? What the hell did they do to him that cost a million dollars?

[nichomachus]

148. I recently went in for a minor outpatient procedure

I spent a total of five hours in the hospital. Prep time, just local anesthesia, 15 minutes in the OR, then the rest in recovery room before I was sent home. I didn't even get lunch.

Total hospital charge -- $26,000 -- and that didn't include the doctor.

[DesMoinesDem]

155. Reminds me of the article How American Health Care Killed My Father.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/09/how-american-health-care-killed-my-father/7617/

Prices are meaningless with our current healthcare system. No one, including your insurance and medicare, will pay that much and hospitals don't expect them to. The bill has no relationship to the services they provide. The actual payment will be a fraction of the bill.

[undeterred]

156. Surely he has enough in his Health Savings Account to pay for that.

That would be a Right Wing Answer.

[ThoughtCriminal]

162. Is Dr Evil running the hospital?

[Turbineguy]

172. Sounds like they left out a few zero's

As long as the system works for Rush Limbaugh, it won't get fixed.

[gtar100]

179. That's insane.

[tblue37]

180. When my brother's 2003 hip replacement surgery sent him into a deep coma that he was not expected

ever to come out of, he was in coma in the neurological ICU for 23 days. Then for a couple of weeks he would have only moments of consciousness. Eventually, he was conscious for longer and longer periods.

He was in rehab for several months, and then in a halfway-house type of rehab, to retrain him to do everyday things before he could be sent home to live alone as he had before the coma. (He is fine now--you'd never know he had to relearn almost everything. It was a most astonishing and miraculous recovery!)

All that NICU, all that rehab, starting with just learning to be vertical again after months of being horizontal, learning to stand and sit, learning to walk, learning to feed himself, and just learning to function: grand total, about $250,000. (Fortunately, he has great insurance, though!)

My point is that my brother had much more care in 2003, and of a more expensive sort (including the original hip replacement surgery) than your father apparently has had, and over a period of several months (about 6 or 7 months, if I remember correctly). And yet his total bill was about 1/4 of what your father's hospital has already charged him.

(Obviously hospital costs are rising a lot faster than inflation. That's happening in universities, too, BTW.)

[nineteen50]

181. He should have gone to Iraq

article 31 of their constitution guarantees single-payer
health care

[Divine Discontent]

190. sorry to get into this thread so late. I used to pay medical claims for a big health insurance co.

I once paid a million dollar claim for twins in the hosp for about 3 months. The contracted rate was far less, and once I typed up the claim and sent it off, a week later, the hosp called and wanted to negotiate a more fair price than the Managed Care insurance rate that the patient had through the insurer. They didn't like that their contracted rate was only, say $50K. I sent it up for Nurse review and they did whatever with it.

My sibling and I were talking about this, and he said he heard the hosp has to take the lowest rate that they would accept from anyone, if you ask for it. That very well could be.



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[BrendaBrick]

192. Wouldn't this ridiculous, exhorbitant amount

constitute a form of gouging?

http://www.hospitalvictims.com/hv_defend.asp