Regarding the male privelige...Apologists and those who want to troll don't bother reading this.

[undergroundpanther]

Being Transgendered,a Female to male ,I can tell you first hand that male privilege exists.Some guys DO talk about women like a piece of meat to fuck.They do get off on depictions of female degradation. It's disgusting how arrogant some guys are strutting around like little roosters,and hollering a sexual slurs,or harassment to a woman happens to be near or touching her when she does not want to be touched,that is bullying and a disregard of her humanity and her power over her own body.No male would tolerate it if a woman the male did not like groped him he would stop the groper.If a woman punches a groper she's a prude a harpy,in reality just like the man,she's defending the boundary of his body.Everyone has a right to defend themselves from unwanted gropes,touches or cruel comments.Sadly women have forgotten they have a right to defend themselves as much as any guy would. This is about POWER and the abuse of it.
... Rape can permanently damage a person for LIFE. I have seen guys joking about it, in private,looking at women tied up in ropes.It was a mental circle jerk to the idea of gang raping a helpless person. It was a terrible thing to witness but these guys didn't see it that way because the power dynamics of abuse they were doing was invisible to them..They didn't know I was not always a guy,so they were disarmed around me. I have the testosterone level of a normal guy, my blood tests prove it and yes some things changed ,but I have not become cruel.I see a nice looking person I don't have to yell anything about her body in public to appreciate her seductiveness or beauty. In reality There is no need to ever believe any guy says MUST have sex, or needs to look at violent porn to get off or cannot control his sexual drive ,he is a liar 100%.A guy who yells shit at women about their bodies is a man that likes to scare/intimidate/humiliate, or abuse power with women,it's a lust for POWER not lust or love, or even lust at all motivating that,it is reinforcing rank of power.. It may very well be a learned behavior or a sadist problem it's really a distortion of power some men have.A gender based DISPARITY OF POWER is what's defined as male privilege.Along with abusing power and the desire to make a woman feel bad,or be intimidated.Stuff like looking at porn is not a victim-less act,men may very well be looking at pictures of slaves.Confront them and they go denying the women in the pictures could be a fuel for sex trafficking,a huge profit maker for criminals.http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4532617.stm To some men who behave this way or apologists for it are unaware of the other's point of veiw,reinforcing the invisibility of privilege.Rank is a drug. The more you have, the less aware you are of how it effects others negatively.

All that shit like porn,dehumanizing women,violating boundaries that certain men defend like an addict claiming his heroin use is not hurting anyone, has NOTHING to do with having testosterone in your bloodstream ,love or sexuality at all.It has everything to do with POWER and the abusive dynamics of power that privilege provides a place for.The more conscious we are of rank and privilege in all it's forms and seek to SHARE power and strive for more equality the less conflict privilege will cause for people.

[Lunabelle]

1. So true

Men still have all the power. White men especially.

[Syrinx]

2. As a white man, I ask how do I exercise this power?

I want to use any power I have to make everyone's life better. Strangely, I feel quite without power. Do I have some secret power that even I do not know about?

[yewberry]

3. Sorry to say

but your 'power' doesn't exist as a set of gains & losses. Your power exists largely as privilege.

Privilege means that a bad day at work for you won't cost another man a chance at a job. It means that you don't have to wait until there's an empty elevator to feel safe, or that you'll have to spend more on clothes or personal care to be seen as acceptable. It means that your choices about work vs family will not cause your masculinity to be called into question, and that your bosses, community leaders, elected representatives, and spiritual leaders will be male, just like you. You will not have special laws created to describe crimes against you so that those crimes may be treated more lightly (domestic violence, date rape). A bad day will not prompt anyone to ask you if it is 'that time of the month.'

I gotta say that I disagree with the OP, that privilege is about power. I think it's about Other-ness. To my mind, male privilege is more rooted in the notion that male is understood as the neutral, essential human, and the female is the 'Other.'

[Syrinx]

6. what a crock, respectfully

[yewberry]

9. Howzat?

What's the crock?

[aquart]

10. Respectfully, you sound astoundingly clueless.

[pipi_k]

30. You know what's a crock?

When people "refute" a point with a one line statement expressing their contempt, without bothering to explain exactly what they disagree with, and why they disagree.

You know...something that adds to the discussion...

[mzteris]

62. it's obvious

you have no idea. Not one shred of a clue. Pity, that.

Dems are supposed to care a little bit more about things like inequality and inequity and discrimination.

Just because you don't understand it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

I bet you think racism is a thing of the past, too, huh?

:sigh:

[Skidmore]

17. While I agree with your first complete paragraph, I would suggest

that creating and maintaining an "Other" is the very dynamic essential to establish privilege in order to exercise power. The notion of male privilege goes back to our earliest myths and traditions. For example, the idea that woman was created from the rib of man and that she was to be subservient was at once creating the other and the dynamic for privilege and power. Mankind has spent millenia refining the definition of what constitutes privilege and subservience.

[StarsInHerHair]

65. that is a stolen myth, the reason it says "from a rib" is the Sumerian goddess

her name is phonetically the same for 'rib' & 'life'.



Now the Sumerian word for "rib" is ti (pronounced "tee"). The goddess created for the healing of Enki's rib, therefore was called in Sumerian Nin-ti, "the lady of the rib." But the very same Sumerian word ti also means "to make live." The name Nin-ti may thus mean "the lady who makes live," as well as "the lady of the rib." In Sumerian literature, therefore, "the lady of the rib" came to be identified with "the lady who makes live" through what might be termed a play on words. (Kramer, Mythologies 103)

http://faculty.gvsu.edu/websterm/SumerianMyth.htm

[seabeyond]

68. my kids went to a private christian school when young. we are not religious, but son was skinny,

articulate, wore glasses and very intellectual. i bought into public schools not being academic and lots of bullying. i found it to be opposite. anyway, so my boys are in the private christian school, and many times in discussion i had to correct what was being taught to them. but the hugest story for me was son in about 3rd grade, very smart, way beyond most his age, told me males had one more rib.

WTF?????

no way. you really didnt believe that shit. tell me no. oh, common.

he read encyclopedias at 4. knew about diseases and such beyond me. was obsessed with lock jaw in the first grade. obsessively washing hands to point of bleeding and couldnt eat around others cause when they talked they spit, .... germs.

yet he believed males had one more rib

[StarsInHerHair]

84. yeah you have to go outside a religion to really begin seeing it

ironic, yes? Now there are sites & the awesome dvd "The God Who Wasn't There"


Wait, my whole point that male privilege was BASED on the 2 creation myths in the book of Genesis, not really the 1st 1 where it says '& he created them equally, man & woman he created' BUT it WAS established & was repeated in the 19th century to justify denying women the right to vote, the right to own property, etc. Adam's Rib was even a film, & men would say this is your lot, woman, for making me intelligent--oops, I meant, for tricking me into eating from the Tree of Knowledge.

This same story is why Muslim women have it so bad too, & Amish women too.

[Morning Dew]

38. For the topic of privilege, this should be an OP.

[foreigncorrespondent]

4. If you look around the world...

...the majority of the most powerful people happen to be men. There are many countries which still believe that a female is the property of the man she marries. Many parts of the world still have inequality when it comes to wages... men get paid more for doing the same job as a female. Often times women are overlooked for a job in favor of a male.

Where I live... I am looked at by the male community as a piece of meat for their enjoyment... when they find out I am a lesbian, then they lay bets as to who is going to be able to "set me straight" first, by bedding me. Many males have walked away rather embarrassed when I am rejected them in front of their mates.

You have the right idea though by wanting to make everyone's life better... perhaps you could stand in solidarity with women... and help us fight for equality for all our sisters around the world. :)

[Syrinx]

8. I thought we were talking about in the U.S.

[undergroundpanther]

19. how do you treat women,as objects

as somehow inferior or do you like making them uncomfortable? Do you never question the lives of women depicted in porn and wonder why anyone would do that,Do you ignore thoughts that some look desperate,addicted too young or traumatized? Do you like to embarrass,'tease' or violate boundaries of women and get them upset just because you can? Do you call women like waitresses,or secretaries hunny babe or girl?
Do any of this shit,you are abusing power. If you don't do that,you are a respectful decent person.

Exercising power against this kind of shit involves a warning to stop,if not stopped and the man gets threatening aggressive or touches a woman not asking to be touched, it might require kicking a man that behaves that way right into a testicle torsion. Nothing like defending one's boundaries clearly and with the force required for threat presented to cease,that equalizes power abusers fast. Men of course especially the ones who like to abuse power will hate a woman for defending herself.Because he feels he can't get away with it.

[WinkyDink]

24. You can walk anywhere, at any time of day, enter any establishment, no hassles. NO FEAR.

Get that last point? NO FEAR.

There is not one woman who lives without fear-----from you, because you are a man.

We, not you, must scope out our parking spaces at the Mall, at our local grocery. We, not you, must be wary of accepting help from strangers. We, not you, must plan our paths to avoid unpleasant and/or male-filled areas. We, not you, worry about being raped, about being alone with repairmen, about being a victim of "domestic" violence,...

THAT is your power: To be without fear.
How can you use it to help?
Respect the physical boundaries, the words, the dignity of all women you encounter. Give women less reason to fear.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

71. +1!!! And as a woman of color, that "fear" and "indivisibility" is double that. Spot on!!

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

79. I meant to type "invisible," but whatever. I hope people get the point.

Every year during this time of year when there's Daylight Savings Time, women begin to worry. They worry about getting things done before it gets dark. I worry that I get my neighborhood runs in before the sun goes down. We have to plan our entire day to ensure that we're not "caught out there," making ourselves more vulnerable.

Women around the world--not just in the U.S.--go through this. And in *some* Islamic and other religous fundamentalist cultures, women can't even be seen without a man by her side. She can't drive. She can go out shopping, etc.

If men don't understand that they enjoy priviledges that they take for granted, then we're really screwed as a society.

[tigerfang]

75. No woman doesn't fear me?

My own mother fears me? My two daughters?

[JoeyT]

37. It's not so much about having power

as groups that don't fit into the privileged group have less power.

There aren't multiple bills in a bunch of states and congress attempting to control exactly what a man does with his body. If a man is robbed in a bad neighborhood, the news story won't ask "Why was he in that neighborhood?".

The way you can use your power to make everyone's life better is by calling out guys that act like women are property or lesser beings. When the callout comes from a women, they shrug it off as her being whiny, when it comes from a man it confuses them and gives them pause.

[seabeyond]

43. right on.... nt

[redqueen]

53. I agree with all but one point...

when the callout comes from a male, as often as not he is labeled as a traitor (white knight, self-hating man, etc.), mocked, insulted... and any points he made are simply ignored.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

72. True. I have a very good friend who is a white male, conservative Republican.

He happens to be a staunch Obama supporter. When we are arguing with other people about the Democrats/Obama, I typically defer to him to make the argument because coming from him, the arguments--SADLY--carry more weight. Because I am black and a woman, people automatically assume that I am an "Obamabot!" That's how it is and that is how it goes. I could make a poignant, valid point and it is ignored. He could make the exact same point in the exact same way, and people stand up and listen.

Here's the rub: His fellow conservative Republican friends now question his manhood because he supports Democrats now. They call him "gay," and other things that emasculate him simply because he supports Democrats. Bottom line is that his presence is now threatening to them because he doesn't think as they do now. I have to say that I applaud that about him because he's changing every day and not allowing his fellow white conservatives to sway his opinion.

[seabeyond]

73. the other day, i had hubby call auto repair. i didnt want to bother with the wall of being female

discussing car repair with a man.

said it, to hubby and in front of two sons. there is an automatic condescending attitude, even in polite and nice. they dont listen.

standing at reception desk yesterday waiting for a table at restaurant of our club. i am the member. the family i BROUGHT to the club is standing off to the side. i am in front of woman, giving her the info. she turns to the one man in the crowd and asks HIM the questions.

WTF, woman. right here. it is me you talk to.

it is all the time.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

78. The "invisible woman syndrome." Happens all the time, and it's even unconscious.

I don't think it's malicious all the time. And I don't think people realize what they do. Just like "silent racism." People don't realize that what they are saying and/or doing is racist or sexist or homophobic. They just don't think about it.

White male privilege is very real. It's not malicious or mean or calculated. That's just how life is. And one way to combat is for white men--and men in general--to acknowlege that this the way of the world.

We cannot defeat sexism or any form of "ism" is those who benefit from privilege are too offended even to acknolwedge that it exists.

[seabeyond]

81. White male privilege is very real. It's not malicious or mean or calculated

agreed.

with your whole post. one that really sticks in my at the blatant and obvious. had a construction owner giving hubby and i an estimate. hubby standing behind me. i ask a question. he looks over my head and gives answer to husband. WTF... really? lol. hubby indicates the answer and question should be directed at me. he does this naturally, thinking or not, he sees how i am ignored and just not in him. but then i notice he does not do that with women. and i know it is not conscious cause he does not put a lot of effort into enlightment. for whatever reason, he doesnt seem to play the game.

[uppityperson]

50. I hope you speak out against treating women as property, I hope you educate any time you can

That would be a good use of this power.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

70. Yes. Whether you realize it or not. Just by virtue of your gender and skin color,

you wield far greater power than you think. People simply don't make unflattering assumptions about you, your character, your family, your friends, or what you do--simply because of your gender and skin color. That's just how it is.

Allow me to quote something that Chris Rock one cogently stated about white men: "Are you willing to trade places with anyone of a different race?"

I would add to that "gender" as well.

Again, this isn't an attack. It is simply pointing out how society is. Unfortunately that is the way of the world still.

[FreakinDJ]

5. The Power of Prejudice is strictly in your mind

When you stop playing - it stops happening

Take this advice with a grain of salt from what some people would call a "Mixed Breed"

[bettyellen]

74. "When you stop playing - it stops happening" Ha, dude, this isn't The Matrix!!!

It's real life and your BS denial of it IS part of the problem.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

80. Are you serious? Really? I mean, really??!?!?!

:puke:

[sk2020]

7. Male privilige is REAL.

Whether they want to realize it or not, male privilige is a real problem in today's world. It's the last forbidden barrier that nobody ever realizes.

We're all familiar with the fact that a woman makes only 60 cents for every dollar a man makes. But what about other priviliges?

Historically little has changed from the iron age. In ancient Greece, men were considered citizens, while women were not. A father or husband had legal guardianship over a daughter or wife and was allowed to make decisions on her behalf. In Catholic Ireland, men maintained total legal rights and responsibilities over women and children. Additionally, only men were normally able to inherit unless a woman died without any male relatives, in which case she was able to leave her property to a surviving female relative. In Pakistan, a woman having relations outside of marriage could be killed by her husband, while it was fine for a man to do it.

In education, finance, law, and almost all matters, men STILL TO THIS DAY have more rights than women, JUST BECUAUSE they are men. The fact that what's between their legs gives you more rights, and also the right to treat someone else like crab is disgusting.

[msongs]

11. now that the OP is a man, he is just a big part of the male privilege problem himself nt

[seabeyond]

14. not IF the man recognizes, acknowledges adn addresses the issue. he is part of the

solution and healing.

see how easy that is.

[WinkyDink]

25. Ridic. Sorry. The problem is in the behaviors, which it is eminently clear the OP eschews.

[Javaman]

32. So therefore, logically, it shouldn't be looked at as a male centric problem

but a behavioral problem, no?

[Donnachaidh]

63. that would only make sense if women acted the same exact way

And I don't know many that grope men, sell them into sex trafficking, pay them 60% less than themselves, etc.

Sorry -- the problem IS male centric.

[Javaman]

77. it certainly is systemic among the male population

but that is because of the traditionally male power base that has be in rule for a millennia.

People are people and as such any person in power gets corrupted by that same power. regardless of sex. I can give you a list of women from history that were evil rulers as well, granted not as many as men, because that goes back to my first point of men being in the traditional seat of power.

When both sexes earn the same, have the same jobs, etc, you will see just as many corrupt women in power as you have seen in males.

it doesn't have anything to do with sex, it's a psychological issue.

power corrupts.

[Donnachaidh]

82. "When both sexes earn the same, have the same jobs, etc,"

Won't happen anytime soon -- BECAUSE of the boorish men controlling the system. WHY give women the same level of access, when it's not deemed *natural* by the male status quo?

And I *doubt* you'll see women acting as piggish as some men do now. It's not a psychological issue -- it's an *attitude* issue.

[Javaman]

83. attitude is still a psychological issue.

but I'm sure you know that.

power corrupts. slice it any way you want, everyone is susceptible to it; male or female.

[Faithful One]

12. I don't know what else to say other then I don't feel "privleged"

I get bombarded with advertisements, website links, etc, talking about how men are the problem and how radicals should control them, lock them up, and rule the world according to feminism.

How men are weak, stupid, dumb brutes while women are peaceful and loving.

How I have to act a certain way 'cause it's "cool".

I'm just me. I'm a straight, white, Christian male; also known as the anti-Christ and the definition of "evil" to certain radicals.

[undergroundpanther]

20. I'm not talking feminism

I'm talking about abuse of power.

[Javaman]

33. Abuse of power isn't a male only issue.

while males have traditionally been the ones in power, I honestly believe, as women have more prominent positions in society, you will eventually see abuse of power by them as well.

The power to corrupt by the powerful, I think, is an equal opportunity issue.

It's more about ego than it is a male oriented issue. It's just that the males have been in the seat of power, for the majority of recorded history, that make them the obvious target.

As our society becomes more equal with pay and authority among the sexes, I think, we will see an equaling of the control and abuse of power.

[seabeyond]

34. i agree. totally. and i think it is very important we recognize

agreeing with the post of yours above, too.

i think a lot of the behavior is given to males as biological, just gotta be, boys being boys, but reality is it is learned behavior and not only accepted and encouraged by society but also rewarded.

recognizing it for what it is goes a long way to heal and allow the authentic male to be. and a hell of a lot easier on the man, not to mention the rest of the world. so it behooves all.

[redqueen]

54. "not only accepted and encouraged by society but also rewarded"

That is a huge part of the problem, right there.

[hifiguy]

36. I believe you are correct, Javaman.

Correct in every way.

[seabeyond]

13. i love you panther. you are right on, exact, so correct what you say. it is exactly

that.

thank you for your post

[seabeyond]

15. i will say something else i find interesting and see a lot on this board. SOME men

want to always present their sexuality as their power in so many ways. to the point of embracing their adolscent, sophmoric self with pride. until a poster has an OP like this where they back off and no longer want to claim it and cry foul.

two sides of a coin.

[undergroundpanther]

22. If you say the underlying reality openly

That it's about abusing power, the people crying foul have no fig leaf to hide what they are doing-from themselves anymore.And that's what male privilege is,socially sanctioned abuse of power,same goes for gay bashers,Transgender bashers,racists,bigots of every stripe. It's all about getting away with abusing power and using it to intimidate,upset harm or control another. Bullies thrive on the lie of status or rank ,destroying the other just because they can. It has always been about abuse of power and getting away with it... Question is to those who get it,will they all defend the "other" so the bully will NOT be able to get away with it anymore?

[seabeyond]

23. you said it so well. and have in your replies. had me thinking, the times i called a man out

the too many times, i always felt embarassed that i dared to call a man out for his desire to embarass or humiliate or abuse.

something we girls are raised with even when we know better.

edited to add. i do tell myself that with me being brave or angry enough to call the man out, he may think twice with the next woman or girl. upside

[janet118]

46. It's those who listen to or watch the bashing and bullying . . .

yet remain silent so they are assumed complicit who are at fault. Their silence encourages those who overtly express racism, sexism, homophobia, etc. Because many who do this are often in power, those under them go along to get along. It is often an initiation rite - if you are offended by their behavior, you are identified as "not one of them." Until the old boys network is infiltrated by those who will not stand for this "male bonding" crap or power is not concentrated on one sex or race or sexual orientation, it will continue. I see it in the political parties all the time. It is a difficult club to break into.

I'm reading a new book called "The Diversity Index - The Alarming Truth about Diversity in Corporate America and What Can Be Done about It" by Susan Reed. It chronicles the history of changes in executive leadership of the Fortune 500 companies. From reading the liner notes, it seems that change that has occurred at the top has mostly favored white women, black men and non-Americans (Canadians, Europeans, etc.) and the biggest gap in the top tier leadership being black women. I'm curious to find out how these changes have affected individual companies.

[Mnemosyne]

16. I spent most of my childhood being groped and grabbed by my step-father. I was told

over and over by my mother that I had no reason to be upset by it because, "He doesn't mean anything by it.". I left home at 14.

Thanks for the OP, UGP. :hug:

[seabeyond]

26. i wonder if people GET what you are saying. an environment that should be safe

a responsibility ALL adults and especially parents have a responsibility to give to a child. a safe environment. and the undafe feel always with your experience.

i had an environment with such respect for my person. i give the same for my boys. i am sad for all that dont have the same.

[Mnemosyne]

67. It makes it hard to ever feel safe. It makes it hard to understand who you can and cannot trust.

I thought I had to automatically trust everyone until they gave me a reason not. I am still working on not being naively trusting and letting someone earn my trust now. I am 53.

I am comforted knowing that others did have a safe place growing up and tried hard to make sure my daughter felt safe in the way I didn't.

I guess we all just do the best we can we what we learn.

[seabeyond]

69. .

:hug:

yup

[Odin2005]

18. I was part of the problem until my best friend was raped, then I got it.

:grr:

[undergroundpanther]

21. It's sad

that's what it took for you to get it,I am glad you got it now. I hope you use your power to help women and educate those who fail to 'GET IT' Even if it requires you giving another man a testicle torsion to protect a woman from harm.
Rape kills from the inside.

[PassingFair]

35. He tries.

I've seen it.

:patriot:

By the way, good to see you posting.

:hi:

[Odin2005]

41. Thank you, UP!

:hug:

[TroglodyteScholar]

27. Would like to point out that directing this at "some men" doesn't stop it being a generalization.

Maybe next you'd like to post a long rant about how "some Jews" are greedy or "some blacks" are lazy.

I'm sorry you've had bad experiences. There are men who aren't like what you're describing. But they should just be disregarded b/c they don't prove your biases, right?

[Odin2005]

40. It's a sociological generalization, not a prejudicial one.

Social Science is impossible without generalizing about groups of humans beings.

[Nye Bevan]

28. Exhibit A would be Dominique Strauss-Kahn (nt)

[Odin2005]

39. Exhibit B is Roman Polanski.

Polanski's excuse? "Everyone was fucking little girls in the 70s". :puke:

[AngkorWot]

44. And then there's Julian Assange

Oh... wait...

[seabeyond]

45. he does admit, as does she, that sex mutual until he would not put on a condom per her request and

held her down and had sex anyway.

what is that?

yup....

no, oh... wait....

[Odin2005]

48. Assange's "crime" was having sex with a CIA plant.

[AngkorWot]

55. See what I mean?

Well, maybe not you. Others.

[myrna minx]

29. I always appreciate your thoughtful posts, undergroundpanther.

Edit to remove my post - it's too personal.

[Pacifist Patriot]

31. Not sure why people would bother to unrec this....

Thanks for your thoughts! Reminded me of this..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snSNjS5qAgo

[Odin2005]

42. It's the usual suspects that rant about "Men's Rights" and "Feminazi Man-Haters"

:puke:

[undergroundpanther]

59. They should call themselves republicans

republicans call women defending themselves "feminazi's" too ya know.Could they be trolls? Out fightin for the white american male assholes "rights" among all the better men than they are?

[AngkorWot]

47. Well, it could be seen as a continuation of an argument from another thread.

Then it starts out with the whole claim that anybody who disagrees is a troll or an "apologist." And there's the nonsensical whining about pornography. And the whole thing is rather poorly written.

[undergroundpanther]

60. Than don't read it

silly.

[dionysus]

49. paragraphs, try them.

[Javaman]

51. I agree.

while I appreciate a good rant or a good thoughtful post, it becomes unreadable without paragraph breaks.

[dionysus]

52. there are guys who are assholes. there's tons who aren't, so what's your main point?

[Odin2005]

56. Even non-assholes unconsciously perpetuate oppression.

I'm certainly not an asshole, but, as I already mentioned, it took my friend getting raped to realize my own male privilege.

[ZombieHorde]

57. Holy shit, what kind of crowd are you associating with?

Where are you meeting these men? I have not heard shit like that since high school.

[seabeyond]

58. YOU

get a huge ass :hug:, lol. my hubby tells me the same. i tell him how i hear men talk about women on the net and he says.... Holy shit, what kind of crowd are you associating with?

he will love this confirmation

[ZombieHorde]

64. I'll take that hug. I had a rough week.

Nothing serious, just school stress.

[Curmudgeoness]

61. There is no one here who can tell this story from both sides

of the gender wall, unless they also are transgender. I am sure that you see things that none of us can relate to, since we have only had one experience or the other. Your words are truth.

[Tsiyu]

66. Get thee to the Greatest

Look, no one would willingly live as I do unless they were crazy. Seriously, it's a rough, poor, difficult, ascetic existence. I haven't made over $8,000.00 a year in the last five years.

But I damn well know, as a Caucasian-looking woman, that I have privilege a Black or Hispanic woman doesn't have in a million years. Male Privilege isn't about how many material possessions you own or whether you got custody of your kids in the divorce or how high you've climbed on the corporate ladder.

It's about the general treatment you receive in society.

And I damned well know, even if a Black or Hispanic woman makes millions, she's still going to face stereotypes and prejudice and judgment about her character that I, as a White woman, will never, ever face.

She will be called slurs I will never hear.

She will be followed around in stores as if she's a thief, when I, dressed in the same clothes, may be treated like a guest.

She will be less likely to get jobs for which we're both qualified.

If I, a pauper, can acknowledge my own privilege, I have a lot of trouble with men who can't get the concept of male privilege and who pretend - because they had to pay alimony and they're not riding around in limos - that they don't get it.

To all the guys who get it: :applause:

To all the guys pretending they don't? YOU are part of the problem.

[tigerfang]

76. There are ways to win people over.

This is not one of them.