Torture Watch: Is the Obama administration still torturing Bradley Manning?

[Karmadillo]

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/12/14/manning

The inhumane conditions of Bradley Manning's detention
By Glenn Greenwald

Bradley Manning, the 22-year-old U.S. Army Private accused of leaking classified documents to WikiLeaks, has never been convicted of that crime, nor of any other crime. Despite that, he has been detained at the U.S. Marine brig in Quantico, Virginia for five months -- and for two months before that in a military jail in Kuwait -- under conditions that constitute cruel and inhumane treatment and, by the standards of many nations, even torture. Interviews with several people directly familiar with the conditions of Manning's detention, ultimately including a Quantico brig official (Lt. Brian Villiard) who confirmed much of what they conveyed, establishes that the accused leaker is subjected to detention conditions likely to create long-term psychological injuries.

more...

[BrklynLiberal]

1. What a total screw up. Now that Torture is OK, it can be used on ANYONE...including US citizens

[Occam Bandage]

2. I'm not sure I'd go so far as to claim solitary confinement is "torture."

If they believe he's a risk to get messages regarding further leaks to the outside world, then what other options do they have pending trial?

[Angry Dragon]

5. He is convicted of nothing

he is not allowed to exercise
he is not allowed to read papers
he is not allowed to talk to anyone

how the hell is he supposed to get more leaks and then pass them on??

[Occam Bandage]

6. He's the chief suspect in a pending military trial. Holding him in prison is expected.

He's leaked hundreds of thousands of documents already. It's a reasonable fear that he would have more stashed somewhere, much as Julian Assange has publicly declared he himself has. If you have that fear, you'd obviously not want to let him tell anyone how they might find them. It sucks for Manning, but when you're behind the biggest security breach in world history, you're probably going to get exceptional treatment.

[Angry Dragon]

10. If he had more information he could just tell his lawyer

lawyer-client privilege

They are so worried about his health right now they are giving him anti-depressents
due to the treatment he is getting in prison

Should he be able to exercise??
Should he be able to watch tv??
Should he be able to read the newspaper??

Yes he should be in prison, but the question begs under extreme conditions??

[Occam Bandage]

13. I don't fault the military for minimizing risk,

and that includes lack of contact and lack of exercise (since he could give messages to other prisoners while exercising). Manning is an exceptional case. He leaked the diplomatic cables, he leaked the Iraq war files, he leaked Collateral Murder, he leaked the Afghan war files. It's not outside the bounds of imagination that he might have something else stashed away somewhere.

That said, I don't think there's any reason they couldn't give him a TV and a newspaper. I'll definitely grant you that.

[Angry Dragon]

16. They even refuse to let him exercise in his cell

I can see no contact with other prisoners
But everything else is going too far

[stevenleser]

18. It's military jail. That's why you don't commit crimes in the military. n/t

[stevenleser]

14. Sure he could, and his lawyer couldnt tell anyone, again, because of lawyer client priviledge

if the lawyer told anyone, he would be committing an offense that would allow the prosecution to break the veil and would have to turn over everything to the prosecution and courts, his notes, everything.

[stevenleser]

11. Exceptional Treatment? I'll say...

I say this a lot to people, particularly people enlisting for the first time or contemplating commissioning programs.

If you plan any kind of monkey business, the military is not the place for you. If you think there is a chance, even a slight one, that you could be or become a conscientious objector, etc., do not join. Do not join if you are underage and expect to be able to continue drinking alcohol before you are 21 (the military takes that and any other kinds of rulebreaking seriously).

The military justice system is extremely harsh. The only way to play it in the military is 100% by the rules. If you cannot do that, don't join or get out ASAP.

Manning is going down and will probably get life at hard labor, if he is lucky and they do not execute him for treason.

[Supersedeas]

37. I hear you...but some folks really don't realize or even develop a conscience until

they have experienced the world that the military has opened up to them.

What do most 18-year-olds know about objections springing from a real personal moral quandry?

While I do think your advise is sound, young people do and will continue to make mistakes and some of those mistakes occur during their enlistment. "Shit happens" but some shit happens on a much more direct way while serving in the military.

[stevenleser]

41. And to those people, I would advise go along to get along until your hitch is up...

assuming you are not given an illegal order.

If they cannot do that, there are a couple of options in preferred order:

1. Chain of command

2. The inspector generals. There are inspector generals at various levels that one can go to if they feel something is happening that is unethical or immoral.

3. Contact a member of congress in one of the committees that deal with the military or the oversight committee.

Obviously, items #2 and #3 will generate you some negative attention by your peers and superiors, but they cannot do anything in terms of the military justice system as a result of either of these items, particularly if you have given the chain of command an opportunity.

The other thing people should remember is that everyone receives briefings on ways to handle issues when they go through basic training or whatever commissioning program they enter. Their units regularly get briefings on who the inspector generals are in their commands.

[Supersedeas]

59. Again, very sound advice

My only reservation is that options #2 and #3 require a level of maturity and courage that many young folks may have not developed in threshold amounts.

[SidDithers]

63. Good posts...nt

Sid

[fascisthunter]

38. are you kidding me? DO you know what solitary confinement does to a human being?

Look it up... there have been studies about this.

[Occam Bandage]

43. Solitary confinement is the only workable option in many cases.

This may be one of them. Until it is entirely clear what information he possessed but has not yet leaked, allowing Manning to speak to anyone but a lawyer is a security risk.

Is solitary confinement rough on a person? Yes, it is. Which is one of the many reasons why committing espionage is a bad idea.

[mrfrapp]

48. "Which is one of the many reasons why committing espionage is a bad idea."

"Which is one of the many reasons why committing espionage is a bad idea."

What you describe is totalitarianism.

[stevenleser]

50. And when you join the military, you are willingly joining an authoritarian system

whether one realizes it or not.

[Occam Bandage]

52. There is no nation on Earth that would not prosecute for leaking state secrets.

There is no military on Earth that would not consider espionage among the highest possible crimes. None.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lamp_shade]

4. .

[Pavulon]

8. There is no candidate that supports espionage

and disclosure of classified information. Why would obama do that?

[EFerrari]

7. With respect, Karmadillo, your subject line is over the top.

It has yet to be established that Manning is being tortured at all, let alone, "still". If you've read DU for the last few weeks, you probably know this topic is important to me, and I hope you consider respecting the seriousness of the situation by not burying it under a layer of unnecessary exaggeration.

[Catherina]

9. The change is in the wrong direction. Free Manning now.

So you were going to protect whisteblowers huh? Another lie.

[stevenleser]

12. He's not a whistleblower.

A whistleblower releases data regarding a single or connected series of malfeasances.

This guy downloaded hundreds of thousands of disparate documents. He's going down for treason and is probably going to get life, and I think he deserves it.

[EFerrari]

17. He absolutely is a whistleblower. And part of what he showed you

was the vast overuse of classification -- as was acknowledged in the House Judiciary Committee hearing today.

[stevenleser]

19. A whistleblower doesnt release documents of mostly mundane diplomatic communications

If he had intended to be a whistleblower, he would have concentrated on one or two acts of malfeasance and released documents only related to those issues.

What he did was way beyond that and in my opinion that precludes him being classified or treated as a whistleblower. My money is on the courts agreeing with me.

[EFerrari]

22. His intentions are perfectly clear in the chat published

between him and Lamo. He said very clearly that he released that material because he was witnessing crimes and that should be in the public domain, a public good.

Oh, and whistle blowing is not "malfeasance", nor have whistle blowers only ever narrowly released information. How many pages were the Pentagon Papers?

[stevenleser]

28. I dont care what he claims his intentions were. His actions speak so loud I cannot hear what he is

saying. He is not a whistleblower, and as I said, I'll bet the courts agree with me.

[EFerrari]

31. His "actions" were to send the material to wikileaks

not to North Korea or to China or to Russia. His disclosure was to the public, not for his gain or for the gain of any foreign power.

That should make some difference to anyone who doesn't rely on authority to tell them what is right or wrong.

[stevenleser]

32. That makes no sense at all. Publicizing is sending them to everyone including the countries you

mentioned.

It makes no difference whether he gained something or whether he intended for a foreign power to gain. His intentions clearly were to cause harm to the United States and its allies. The one word term for that is Treason, particularly when you are a member of the military. When the preponderance of documents have nothing to do with any kind of specific whistleblowing, its stops being a whistleblowing action.

It doesnt take 2 minutes going through the wikileaks to tell that this is not about whistleblowing. And as I said, the courts are going to agree with me.

He's going away for life and he deserves every minute of that sentence.

[EFerrari]

33. You have zero evidence that his intention was to harm the United States.

Zero.

And it's appalling that you could apply the label of treason so easily or wish a life sentence on another human being because you have bought in to the official story.

[Pavulon]

34. Death Penalty actually, I'm sure bradass has been told his choices..

face a death penalty case for espionage or testify and die behind bars. I don't think people understand how serious what he did was. Its not shoplifting.

He will die in federal custody and that is a fact.

[stevenleser]

36. Yep, right now, I am sure his attorney is angling for two things...

#1 - No death penalty

#2 - Not having the life sentence include hard labor.

Number two will be hard for him to get.

[Robb]

40. My money is on a deal.

My wild guess is Manning will testify Assange provided some material assistance to him, significant enough to make a Assange a co-conspirator. Tell me the name of a prosecutor who wouldn't take #1 and #2 off the table for that.

I thought it mighty suspicious Assange took his first breath of freedom today and immediately made mention of solidarity with "others in solitary confinement" like he had been. Wholly transparent he meant word to get to Manning he hadn't been forgotten -- because you better believe they've spent six months convincing him Assange left him hanging.

Ugly, and I don't approve. But this is my guess. We'll see soon enough.

[stevenleser]

44. Interesting idea. Not sure if that would work in this case for the simple reason that...

Manning is being prosecuted by the military and Assange would be prosecuted by civilians. I am not sure the military prosecutors would be angling for that kind of deal, but it's an interesting idea.

[Pavulon]

64. manning could be discharged to accomidate a civilian trial

and probably will be. The civilian system will afford him more rights, which is fine by me. There is so much evidence he can be tried in a county court room.

[stevenleser]

35. His intention is obvious to anyone not intentionally being obtuse.

There are few things as obvious as this being treason. Treason is something that gets casually tossed around a lot so some people do not realize it when it is staring them in the face. This is about as obvious as it gets.

[fascisthunter]

39. self-delete

[EFerrari]

42. Wrong. You are attributing treason to a person whose entire chat

was handed over to the Feds.

It's online. Go read it. Geezus.

ETA: Here is a link the Glenn's recap of the relevant passages.

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/06/18/wikileaks

[stevenleser]

45. Your attempt at spin will not help Manning, nor will his chat logs. Again, his actions speak too

loudly for themselves.

[EFerrari]

47. There is no spin in directing you to look at the words. n/t

[Occam Bandage]

46. No. He did not commit treason. Treason is a crime of intent.

In Cramer v. US (1945), the Supreme Court held that it is not enough to know that your actions would harm the United States, nor is it even enough to specifically intend that the United States be harmed. For treason to apply, an individual must deliberately harm the United States in adherence to a specific hostile foreign power. To charge Manning with treason, you would have to prove that he was deliberately attempting to assist a particular hostile foreign nation to harm the US.

Espionage? Sure. He'll go down for that, for sure. Maybe he'll take Assange down with him. But he won't be charged with treason.

[stevenleser]

49. Cramer was a 5-4 ruling that IMHO would be overturned by the current SCOTUS.

There is a lot of conflicting caselaw on Treason besides Cramer. Cramer happens to be the only time a Treason conviction was overturned at the SCOTUS. Judging from the facts of that case and this one, I think there is a strong chance that Cramer would be considered out of date and that this case merits a re-examination of what constitutes Treason.

[Occam Bandage]

51. Your personal distaste with the legal definition of treason is not material.

Cramer has held for 65 years, and I am completely unaware of any 20th-century case law contradicting Cramer's findings. Cramer held through the post-WW2 period; it held through the Red Scare and the Cold War; it held through the War on Terrorism; it holds today. Cramer isn't going anywhere.

[stevenleser]

54. Cramer is toast with this case. n/t

[Occam Bandage]

55. Sure. nt

[MrMickeysMom]

21. How can a live sentence be supported?

Why?

Really, explain this, please.

[stevenleser]

29. Two reasons

First - its the military justice system. Sentences are generally much more harsh than in the civilian world.

Second - He is going to be charged with thousands of counts of multiple offenses including the unauthorized release of classified information, Treason (that is what it is called when you go about intentionally harming your own country), something along the lines of willful intent to harm the security of the united states AND its allies, etc.

There is zero chance this person ever is free again.

[MrMickeysMom]

58. That may be what YOU call it...

but, I don't agree about what you called, "when you go about intentionally harming your own country".

That's a judgement without assessment. You don't know WHETHER what he did WAS an intention to HARM...

The question might be if he did. DID he? YOU seem to think so. And I don't believe you're in a position to act as judge and jury. Of course, you're entitled to your opinion.

[glinda]

15. A spotlight should remain upon Mannings treatment. Our Country is a disgrace. Obama, I hate to say,

is complicit in this. How could he turn out to be this type of person? Awful awful awful. Take his Peace Prize Away.

[stevenleser]

30. No other country would agree with you. Military justice is harsh everywhere...

... virtually everywhere you go, someone doing what Manning did would get life without parole, with the exception being places that execute people.

[duhneece]

20. Is there any way we can send letters of support to Manning

or his family?

[EFerrari]

24. If you search "support Manning", I know you will get the info. n/t

[duhneece]

66. Thank you. I did and found this

Letters and postcards to:

Bradley Manning
c/o Courage to Resist
484 Lake Park Ave #41
Oakland CA 94610
USA

Letters will be opened, "contraband" discarded and then mailed weekly to Bradley via someone on his approved correspondence list.

[treestar]

23. What are the conditions?

They are to be concluded torturous because GG says so?

He is charged with a crime. Not being convicted doesn't mean you can't be detained. For pete's sake.

[EFerrari]

25. You might try reading the article to see the experts Greenwald cites

as well as the conditions he describes.

The conditions of the detention are at issue here, not the detention itself.

[bobthedrummer]

26. In Contravention of Conventional Wisdom by Cheryl Welsh (Jan. 2008 Mind Justice)

http://mindjustice.org/wisdom.htm

[TorchTheWitch]

27. no more than anyone else in solitary

And solitary in a military prison is probably better in a lot of ways than a civilian prison. Mannings confinement conditions aren't about HIM, they're about how the US treats ANY prisoner by using the torturous system of long term solitary confinement.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

53. Our benign government is "protecting" us from whistleblowers that embarrass them.

We have become pathetic as a nation.

[fascisthunter]

56. indeed...

[Major Hogwash]

57. He's being used as a scapegoat

For the total lack of security in our federal computer systems.
If 1 guy could get his hands on a quarter-million documents, then what could 5 guys get their hands on?

Maybe the magic bullet that killed Kennedy.

[Karmadillo]

60. Torture Watch: Friday kick

nt

[somone]

61. They're probably waterboarding him

The War On Terror Must Continue

[lonestarnot]

68. No doubt.

[SidDithers]

62. Dupe...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=13295

Sid

[Karmadillo]

65. Thanks, Sid.

nt

[TexasObserver]

67. recommend

[Zorro]

69. I'd say the Obama administration is providing Manning adequate meditation time

That ain't torture.