I notice a pattern that started the day Zucotti park was occupied

[nadinbrzezinski]

There are those here who believe, even now, that this will ammount to nothing. I gotta remember 1/3 of the people in the Colonies were neutral...same, more or less for the New Deal...all them factory occupations am mounted to nothing I tell you.

This is part of the pattern. But this is something that while not surprising, is always surprising in a way.

This is growing. That is a fact, and the political system will have to join the parade or risk things getting out of "control."

[aquart]

1. Once #ows started growing, I stopped worrying.

Not to mention, the right seems to think that if cold weather drives people indoors, it will be over. No. It won't. This is protest, not boy scout camp.

[roguevalley]

37. when that kid in Tunisia killed himself and sparked awake the

global consciousness I knew it was only a matter of time when the tiny flame would arrive here. Wisconsin put it in motion and the good people of this country stood up to the cowards, bastards and their lapdogs at last. I KNEW this would happen and I sort of had 2012 pegged as the apex because what if all the stuff about it is true? What if it finally coaslesced into our world being saved by the every man and woman? (Screw the rapture. that is bunk. So is the idiot view of the apocalypse which by the way actually means UNVEILING, REVEALING) It could be that the world is going to unveil a GREAT BIG CAN OF WHOOP ASS on the ruling clASS. :)

[aquart]

44. I like the way you think.

[valerief]

2. I want to hope but fear military retaliation will follow.

I trust this govt like I trust Mitch McConnell.

That doesn't mean I haven't already protested myself and made donations to OWS.

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. That is one route

[roguevalley]

38. consider this: The army is us, our families and children. They won't

hurt us anymore than the soviet army. Consider that this isn't part of our history and that there are 330million of us against an army of what? 4M many of which don't live here. I doubt the army will kill us to protect bankers.

[valerief]

39. They killed kids at Kent State. nt

[roguevalley]

41. they did but that was back when, when things were less sophisticated

in terms of getting ideas and news out. That was a bunch of kids in the wrong place doing what an idiot officer told them to do. They were scared. Everyone was. Can't compare then with now.

[valerief]

42. Yes. I can. Kids are getting heads bashed and pepper sprayed now. Technology isn't helping that.

People haven't changed in 40 years. Goons are still goons.

[RaleighNCDUer]

4. And that is why you see so many politicians, both Dem and Repub

running to get in front of the parade.

Hell, ROMNEY wants to be there, and there is no candidate running who better typifies the 1%.

[lunatica]

5. Most people who say it will amount to nothing are basically hoping it will fail

I see a difference between those who have become so cynical that they can't imagine a positive outcome, and those who are expressing wishful thinking. There are some of the latter here on DU too. No matter what they have only harsh criticism to offer.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. Yup

[brooklynite]

6. The Continental Congress didn't make decisions with Twinkle fingers...

They appointed leaders to move the process along.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. You are hoping it ultimately fails don't you?

By the way the Congress was the end result of forty years of radicalization and some of the movements were quite leaderless as well.

[brooklynite]

17. No, I'm hoping it doesn't waste its opportunity...

I'd be happy to restore Glass-Steagal, overturn Citizen's United, impose higher taxes on myself and the other 1%, and develop a rigorous campaign financing structure. The problem is that the OWS movement hasn't asked for any of those things or anything else (individuals certainly have, but not the "official" group), and in a world of 24 hour news cycles, it doesn't take long for the peaking awareness of OWS gets replaced by the latest political scandal, military conflict, lost blonde heiress or cat video.

The problem that I see is that OWS, in opposing the link between the financial industry and the political process, has decided to forgo the political process, and hence develop it's own system of leaderless leadership. The risk is that the process is so slow and the number of involved voices so large, that the anger at Wall Street or Washington doesn't get focused on the proper target. The reality is that whatever changes are desired will have to be effected by the structure we have today: a President, a Congress, various law enforcement agencies and the Courts. Constitutional Conventions to restructure the political or economic process are NOT going to happen immediately, and if they DO, will be a long, drawn-out affair that will be blurred by the equally vigorous engagement of the Tea Party and Religious Right with THEIR shopping list of radical changes.

I live in a reality-based world, and will be spending the next year working to elect the most progressive Democrats possible (given electoral realities in each district), working to re-elect President Obama as the far better choice in comparison to any Republican alternative, and pressing both to make the political and economic reforms necessary. If OWS has an alternative plan, I'm still waiting to hear it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. In that reality based world the civil rights movement

Was followed by political actions. Historically this is how change comes to this country, but do carry on.

[brooklynite]

28. The civil Rights movement didn't bypass the political process as irreparably damaged...

...which is a theme I've seen a number of OWS supporters echo.

[nadinbrzezinski]

29. And they are doing that how?

Marches on city hall are political by their very nature...this is a political movement.

[county worker]

10. Change the names places and time frame of this and you have OWS.

The Sons of Liberty and individual colonials were already distributing statements of the colonial cause to win over merchant and farmer, worker and sailor. Committees of correspondence had been formed to exchange information and ideas and to build colonial unity, and in 1774 these committees prepared the way for the Continental Congress.

Read more: American Revolution: The First Continental Congress — Infoplease.com http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/history/A0856590.html#ixzz1bLvEXXhA

[JDPriestly]

40. Back then, they needed more leadership and flexible structure because they were replacing

king. They had never experienced a truly representative democracy without a king. They could not imagine a government in which people who were literally penniless could have a voice.

They broadened the definition of freedom and of representative government. Over the past couple of centuries, we have further broadened that definition to make our government more inclusive.

In this day of computers, e-mail and instant polling on-line, we can organize ourselves in groups with less emphasis on leadership and with a more flexible structure.

A more definite shape will emerge, but at its proper time.

The OWS is, now, a sort of petri dish in which all kinds of possibilities are developing. Just which will prevail, we cannot now know. But one thing is sure, we have come a long way since the 1960s and an even longer way since 1776. We no longer want or need so much "leadership" or dominance from the top 1% and the corporations.

[county worker]

9. I'm sure this will grow because people have finally realized that change will not come from

the current crop of politicians.

A lot of us voted in 2008 then sat back to watch the hope and change that was promised to us, flow our way. It didn't and a portion of the people know that it never will unless they take control.

The rest are still thinking that hope and change will come from Washington.

[Voice for Peace]

11. I think also that because it's now a world-wide, multi-multi-city town & tundra effort,

nobody will get discouraged & give up. There are too many of us to let each other down, or stop encouraging one another. I'm excited to watch it all unfold.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. Me too

[jwirr]

13. Plus I do not see things getting better any time soon and they may

even get worse - that is a great incentive for continuing the movement. We cannot just set here and watch it so we will grow. As to hoping for change from the government - no it will not willingly change the status quo.

One problem I see having been a part of the protests in the 60s. We got some change back then but we did not go far enough mostly because we did not blame the money changers who were making the money out of the wars. We did not understand that the entire system was broken even then. Do we understand that now? And what kind of system do we want that will work? I know what I want - I have finally become the socialist that they called me back then. But are we the protesters and the people who support them anywhere to united on what we want to become?

[pintobean]

14. Your redundant 'frames'

are tiresome.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. Look puppy!!!!!

All you deserve

[pintobean]

18. Are you calling me Hunny?

:eyes:

[Brickbat]

33. Puppy pattern.

http://ih2.redbubble.net/work.5557269.4.flat,550x550,075,f.pink-puppy-pattern.jpg

[pintobean]

34. You really should stop with these little gifts.

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. If the ignore we're mutual

But since it won't you'll continue to get those gifts.

[brooklynite]

19. Penguins!

[pintobean]

21. One of them is a Raiders fan?

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. That's such a cute photo

[Fire Walk With Me]

15. Look how much malfeasance has come to light since it started. An amazing victory, we can

only participate and make it even bigger!

[Norrin Radd]

20. Great observation.

[kctim]

22. A third support of OWS is a very generous guess

But, in keeping with the comparison to history:

Will our neutral do nothing or pick sides? Judging by our history, most will pick sides and the majority of them will choose to protect our form of government.

Were the third that were loyal to the crown willing to die for the crown? No. But that third now IS loyal to their country, its Constitution and they are prepared and willing to fight and die for them.

Of course our government wouldn't let it get out of hand like that, but IF the revolution OWS is calling for were to happen, the results would not be to their liking.

[Avalux]

OWS is not calling for a violent revolution....where did you get that?

And that neutral third - do you really think they'd choose against OWS?

[kctim]

31. Who said anything about OWS wanting a violent revolution?

Do you not think people could possibly respond in a violent manner if OWS demands are totally met? Of course that depends on what the demands are now, doesn't it. Will the demands be re-instating GS and other tighter regulations or will they demand a total makeover so that government mandates how private businesses run their business and pay their employees?
I'm sure it's nice to dream that thousands of protesters means hundreds of millions support them and want a progressive agenda, but that is not reality.

And yes, in the case that things get ugly, I believe those who are neutral will support what they know and believe in over what OWS "demands."

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. Yep that third took sides

When a warring side came to the front yard.

You are also hoping it fails.

Of course I forgot to ask, who is calling for violent revolution?

[kctim]

32. Hoping that it fails?

Well, that depends on what the 'demands" are.
Tighter regulations and laws to hold wrong doing accountable? I will absolutely support it 100%.
The removal of capitalism and government controlling how private businesses operate? Then yes, I will be for its failure.

Is a violent response not a valid concern when suggesting dramatic change?

[nadinbrzezinski]

35. Point to that demand of the glorious people's revolution

And people's committees.

By the way there are demands for economic and social justice and taxes and regulations...but a socialist, Marxist, nazi revolution...only in glenny's and Sean's minds.

[kctim]

43. Point to the demand that shows they do not want it

You can't. All we have at this point that could be considered "official" is a list of 'declarations.' So, since this group of progressives are claiming to represent 99% of Americans, we need to know how they define what would be economic and social justice, taxing and regulations.

Until then, we can only go by the "ideas" they post in their forums and in interviews, which, btw, are full of rhetoric ending capitalism, forgiving debt, free health care, free education and government controlling how much private individuals pay their employees.

Why is it that you reference Beck and Hannity, socialism and marxism, in an attempt to discount people who dare ask questions? What are you afraid?

Sad that so many would rather shout what it isn't, instead of what it is.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

30. .

[malaise]

23. They were those here who didn't expect it to last beyond the

first weekend. I remember some wondering why it started on the weekend.
Sometimes just laugh. :hi:

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. Yup...it is funny in a way

:hi:

[Obamanaut]

45. Inasmuch as you've included me in your 'fan' list, this 'fan' would like to suggest

there is a difference in 'these', 'those', and 'them.'

In this case, it is 'those' not 'them' in "...all them factory...'

One would think a person who professes to be a writer would know that.