Rebel answered Gaddafi daughter's desperate phone call. Told her: Old Fuzzhead is dead

[snagglepuss]

snip

'Aisha called her father's satellite phone and one of the revolutionaries who had captured him answered her,' said a commander. 'He said, "It's over. Abu Shafshufa died."'

Abu Shafshufa is Gaddafi's nickname in Arabic, meaning Old Fuzzhead.


snip

A rebel fighter involved in the killing told The Mail on Sunday: 'We all took turns to slap his face, really hard. Some men hit him with their shoes, a traditional Arab insult.'

One NTC source said: 'We know who the boy is who killed him. He is a Libyan citizen, under age and so he could not be brought to court. He is a hero and he will not be named.'



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2052325/Rebel-fighter-answered-Gaddafi-daughters-desperate-phone-told-Old-Fuzzhead-dead.html#ixzz1bYkWGAWt


--------


Aisha lived in absurd luxury as Libyans lived hand to mouth and anyone to objected was tortured and killed. LEt no one forget that Gadaffi once had hundreds of opponents hanged in a stadium filled with children. He was scum and his remaining family are scum. I hope Aisha, her mother and brothers spend every moment of their waking lives in fear.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Joe the Revelator]

16. Oh give it a rest....

A. It was a simple typo and you know exactly what was meant

B. I'm getting tired of the hand wringing 'sympathy' for an asshole with no regard for human rights or the lives of others.

[Fumesucker]

19. Why the need to tell me what to do?

I'll post as I see fit and, unlike you, I have no problem with you doing the same.

[Joe the Revelator]

23. No you obviously do have a problem with the things people post...

I refer to you claiming that people's joy in the death of a tyrant is 'orchastrated'.

[Fumesucker]

28. Where did I tell anyone what to post?

Quotes please..

[MattBaggins]

103. He was a a piece of trash

but the rebels through their actions, are proving to be cut from the same clothe.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[monmouth]

2. I believe the young boy in an earlier photo, with the NY cap on was the boy who killed him...n/t

[pinboy3niner]

4. That boy said he shot Gaddafi in the leg at the drain pipe

Gaddafi was still alive afterward.

[Tx4obama]

50. A shot in the leg/knee can be deadly. See link below

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x471670

[chill_wind]

72. So can a bullet to the head and the intestine..

"Gaddafi was arrested while he was alive but he was killed later. There was a bullet and that was the primary reason for his death, it penetrated his gut," doctor Ibrahim Tika told Al Arabiya television. "Then there was another bullet in the head that went in and out of his head."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/21/us-libya-un-gaddafi-idUSTRE79K1KP20111021

[Tx4obama]

75. There has been NO autopsy and there has been a decision made not to have one.

Don't believe everything you read, unless it has been proven to be factual.

[polly7]

81. There was a clear GSW just above the left temple. n/t.

[chill_wind]

87. I don't think a bullet entry and exit hole in the head is necessarily that hard

to identify without an autopsy. Now the good doctor might not be telling the truth to the whole world (google it), but you would need to tell me why that would be. Note that he is not providing an explanation of "who" or in what exact circumstances" he got those wounds (whether in captivity or in cross-fire). But he is the one who did the reported post-mortem exam. No one claimed he did an autopsy.

Tika, who also examined Gaddafi's son Mo'tassim after he was killed Thursday, said his findings indicated he had died after his father.

"(As for) Mo'tassim, there was an injury, a big opening in the area above his chest and directly under his neck. There were three injuries from the rear in his back and at the back of his leg and there was a shrapnel but it was a few days old in his leg," Tika said.

http://news.yahoo.com/libyas-gaddafi-killed-bullet-stomach-doctor-085431776.html

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2011/10/21/un-human-rights-office-urges-inquiry-into-qadhafis-death

[chill_wind]

143. Matter of fact-

another doctor confirms today:

Dr. Othman al-Zintani, Libya’s chief forensic pathologist.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=5035324&mesg_id=5035324

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle-east/libyas-new-leaders-to-declare-liberation-sunday-amid-questions-over-gadhafis-killing/2011/10/22/gIQAi81j6L_story.html?wprss=rss_middle-east

[pinboy3niner]

137. At this point, any rationale that "he bled out" is ludicrous

You know I've supported the Libyan Revolution from the beginning.

But I don't support war crimes on any side--and, from what we know so far, Gaddafi's killing appears to be a war crime.

[sabrina 1]

40. According to the UN Rappateur, they do not know who killed him

The unelected PM, Jibril, has retracted his claim after being contracted by witnesses that it was 'crossfire'. The UN has called this a 'possible war crime' and along with other Human Rights orgs, are calling for an investigation since no one knows who killed him. I would not be pointing towards that boy unless he is actually guilty because the International Community, those who still care about the Geneva Conventions, are planning to prosecute if the killing took place after he was a POW. He does make a good scapegoat though.

[snagglepuss]

Are those irregular troops covered by the Geneva Convention?

snip

While the 1907 Hague regulations stipulated that "the laws, rights, and duties of war apply not only to armies, but also to militia and volunteer corps," those same regulations also presented a four-part test to determine eligibility of those irregular forces for lawful combatant status.<23> In order to be recognized as legitimate combatants, the Hague regulations required irregular units to "be commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates; to have a fixed distinctive emblem recognizable at a distance; to carry arms openly; and to conduct their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war."<24>

[sabrina 1]

79. Well, the UN chose to recognize the NTC

as the legitimate authority and they have Generals appointed who are supposedly in charge of military operations. Someone is responsible for them. From early on in this conflict there have been complaints and reports about the abuse perpetrated on civilians by the 'militias' who are supposedly the revolutionaries under the command of the Generals and the PM, Jibril. Nothing much has been done about it as the appeals continue from Human Rights Organizations.

Gadaffi was a POW once he was captured. NATO and the US facilitated that capture, and presumably the rebels were in contact with someone since they were in the area ready to move in after the US Drone and French Jet attacks. So it was the duty of those who were directing them instruct them on what to do with those they captured. Apparently either no one did, or they weren't listening.

No one knows exactly what happened, but it is clear, according to the UN that Gadaffi was alive and wounded in the video. If these are the replacements for a brutal regime, backed by the US and Europe, it doesn't present much hope, especially after months of complaints of brutality on their part, for the future of Libya.

[snagglepuss]

90. I find your position puzzling. These were civilians who took up arms agaisnt

one of the world's most ruthless dictators, one who had billions of dollars to hire mercenaries to fight against the rebels most of whom had no military training. The stress of fighting in an 8 month bloodbath in those conditions is beyond anything we can comprehend.

As was stated by one of the men who captured him, Gadaffi was promising millions of dollars to be freed. Who in that situation could not wonder whether one or more of the rebels would have accepted the bribes and let Gadaffi escape? The pressure to eliminate him to insure that he didn't escape is understandable. The actions these rebels took under supreme stress doesn't indicate how they will act going forward.

Furthermore, Gadaffi had every opportunity during these last 8 months to surrender to the Hague or scurry away from Libya. He choose to fight because he had every reason to believe he would win. Lucky for the Libyans he was dead wrong.

[nadinbrzezinski]

108. Yes, inside baseball, but they were

and they had to cross their heart and promise that they would follow the bare minimum. They were recognized as a lawful combatant by nation states.

Bare minimum includes respect for ambulances, hospitals, water plants and POWs.

[snagglepuss]

46. Are those irregular troops covered by the Geneva Convention?

snip

While the 1907 Hague regulations stipulated that "the laws, rights, and duties of war apply not only to armies, but also to militia and volunteer corps," those same regulations also presented a four-part test to determine eligibility of those irregular forces for lawful combatant status.<23> In order to be recognized as legitimate combatants, the Hague regulations required irregular units to "be commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates; to have a fixed distinctive emblem recognizable at a distance; to carry arms openly; and to conduct their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war."<24>

[chill_wind]

107. Jibril: Turns out the man wasn't even bruised!

"We got the coroner's report, I saw the body myself. I can testify that there were no bruises on his face or on his body."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/22/us-libya-gaddafi-jibril-idUSTRE79L24U20111022

:puke: :puke:

[polly7]

112. Man, what a liar that one is. n/t.

[sabrina 1]

127. Jibril is quite a liar isn't he? How many has he been caught

in so far? And I see they are trying to blame a 'child' hoping that will avoid prosecutions. So the new regime starts out with brutality and lies. As predicted long ago once it was clear who was really behind all this.

[sabrina 1]

134. So who WAS that in the video?

That man isn't even a GOOD liar. And no one can see the body to examine it. He's not even trying very hard. 'Some limited abuses of Human Rights'. Guess he forgot the lynchings and murders and rapes, still ongoing according to Human Rights orgs of Black Africans.

Not very encouraging that the situation in that country will improve much. And he came out of nowhere. As some of the original protesters said, 'we do not know these 'leaders'.

He reminds me of Chalabi. We always seem to have one of those expats who live near CIA headquarters ready to step in and take over.

[Faithful One]

3. I can't help but laugh at the headline.

I know it is not nice but Gaddafi got what he deserved. Old Fuzzhead indeed.

[Fumesucker]

5. Interesting juxtaposition of your avatar with your words..

[malaise]

14. Not really

I've seen a lot of that

[Fumesucker]

24. Well yeah, but then they wonder why so many people think Christians are hypocrites..

I wonder if the Prince of Peace would think Gaddafi "got what was coming to him"?

[Joe the Revelator]

25. Kind of like people calling themselves 'democrats' while supporting oppressive regimes.

[Fumesucker]

31. Right, anyone who doesn't buy the official line, hook, sinker and rod is objectively pro Gaddafi..

:eyes:

That shtick got really old when it was used against liberals for not howling for Saddam's blood with sufficient mindless fervor, it's no better now..

[Joe the Revelator]

35. That doesn't make someone a liberal....

..it makes them a conspiracy nutcase.

[Fumesucker]

36. Right, the invasion of Iraq was all above board..

No conspiracy involved.

And we knew everything at the time.

:eyes:

Do you even read what you type?

[ellisonz]

58. And you changed the subject...

:hi:

[Fumesucker]

67. I didn't realize that name calling was a legitimate subject..

I learn something new on DU every day..

:hi:

[ellisonz]

94. Still it might benefit you're argument to stick to the topic.

If you say there's a conspiracy, you've got to prove it, otherwise it's just hot air and yes people will get frustrated with it.

For example, I can prove with multiple, internationally respect sources, and a plethora of primary evidence that Gaddafi has backed mass murder in the past and had every intention of doing so again. :hi:

[Fumesucker]

118. So one is not allowed to be skeptical any more ?

Without being painted with the conspiracy brush?

I heard precisely the same arguments when I was skeptical of the necessity of invading Iraq, got called the same names by the same kinds of cheerleaders.

The sense of deja vu is damn near overwhelming..

[SkyDaddy7]

76. More people are concerned with how Gaddafi was treated than...

How Gaddafi & his family treated others...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2031390/Aline-Skaf-Gaddafis-daughter-law-threw-boiling-water-nanny-Shweyga-Mullah.html

I have not figured out if their defense of Gaddafi & their concern for the way Gaddafi was treated is genuine or if it is just a reflection of how much they hate Obama? Or both?

For example, are these the words of a true Democrat?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x802238

[joshcryer]

82. Correct. This has been my experience for the past 8 months. 3-4 people post support for those...

...Gaddafi persecuted, about a half dozen who daily posted about how Gaddafi was good for Libya and how the people Gaddafi persecuted were bad for Libya.

[Amonester]

109. Yes. That was really puzzling to me too.

I mean, really? Are there really people who consider themselves to be 'lefties' defending the rights of a multi-billionaire, while that same multi-billionnaire practically never respected the rights of thousands upon thousands of POOR people when his henchmen tortured them to death, shot them, starved them, humiliated them for FORTY YEARS???

I mean... the mind boggles. I just cannot understand it. I just can't. It boggles the mind.

[nadinbrzezinski]

84. Actually the concern about how he was treated

has little to do with how he treated people... I could go into graphic detail on the torture done by some of his henchmen at the prisons on his orders, but I suspect you want to keep your dinner.

As I said in a long post yesterday... it is not about the monster, but about avoiding becoming the next generation of monsters.

This is an argument that I have discovered is beyond most people and yes, it is a moral argument. It does not bode well for us actually, as a nation.

Oh and take my word for it, I have had the chance to be that judge, jury and executioner with pretty nasty people... but becoming a monster, while might be tempting, is entering a very dark place.

For the sake of Libya I hope this precedent does not taint their future. You might want to pick any book by Hanah Arendt, another person who got to watch evil face to face, for a real good clue. I particularly recommend this one...

http://www.amazon.com/Eichmann-Jerusalem-Banality-Penguin-Classics/dp/0143039881/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1319341011&sr=1-1

It is VERY relevant.

[joshcryer]

133. What defines you as a "generation of monsters" is not one isolated event...

...or even a mix of isolated events. What defines you as such is your consistency as a people, and I'm just at a loss as to how so many utterly isolated events over time define the character of the Libyan people as is so often done. For every inhumane story (and no doubt there are) there are dozens upon dozens of good positive stories in Libya.

[pinboy3niner]

139. I took the 'generation of monsters' comment to refer to US, not to the Libyans

Re-read Nadin's post. She said, "It does not bode well for us actually, as a nation." She was referring to Americans and to our reaction to war atrocities.

Gaddafi's murder (which is what it appears to be) is a war crime, but it appears also to be the act of an individual, not something sanctioned by the NTC, and I don't believe that Nadin is suggesting that it was.

[joshcryer]

140. Yes, but it was called a "precedent" and hopes that it wouldn't taint their future.

I do not think the actions of one young man or group of war torn individuals is any kind of "precedent" for the future of Libya. I understand where they are coming from, but I do think they were speaking in a larger context about the future of Libya.

[malaise]

38. I don't think about that one

I have had proof for decades

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Fumesucker]

51. Yes, I'm objectively pro-Gaddafi..

Just like I was objectively pro-Saddam when I questioned the Iraq war before it was popular to do so..

I'm hearing *exactly* the same thing from the Democrats about Gaddafi these days as I was the Republicans about Saddam in 2003.

I wish I could say I was surprised and at one time I would have been.

[sabrina 1]

129. Mirror imaging, it is astounding I feel like I went back in time.

My only disappointment is I thought we on the left were more creative than to have to recycle those ancient talking points from the wackos on the far right.

And whenever I run into some of my old rightwing adversaries who called me a Saddam lover, they don't want to talk about the old days as they know they were lied to. But they were so programmed to cheer the killing of any Muslim, their knee-jerk reaction is to cheer this one too. But then they remember, this one was the other team's 'kill' so they have to restrain themselves. I imagine this cycle will repeat itself when we are inflicted with the next Republican president.

What a sham it all was. It never was about principles and I'm glad in a way that I have found that out. I guess that is why we have a whole new, non-partisan movement which I am very grateful for. This partisanship was destroying this country.

[NMMNG]

138. Wow.

Haven't you been complaining about how liberal Christians are unfairly lumped in with those mean, hateful, RRRW Christians? You sound just like one of them right now.

[razorman]

6. I will be very surprised if whatever replaces Gaddafi's rule is any better.

There is nothing in middle eastern history to make me optimistic about the near future in Iraq, Egypt, or Libya.

[Chan790]

7. Nothing in ME history?

You are aware that for most of the period between the fall of Constantinople and the Renaissance, Arabia was the pinnacle of civilization, learning, mathematics, governance, philosophy, right? That those regimes were more liberalized and egalitarian than most of what followed them and what existed in all of Europe in the same epoch. Yes? No? Maybe?

[Kurovski]

11. +10 (nt)

[razorman]

21. You are right. Perhaps I should have been more specific.

Nothing in ME history since the rise of the modern Islamic jihad, and the fundamentalist movement, which have been around a long time. But, even in previous centuries, their egalitarian systems did not remotely resemble democracy, which seems to be the outcome expected by many now.

[ellisonz]

59. Then you're saying that Arabs are incapable of democracy...

[razorman]

80. Of course I'm not saying that. Just because it has never happened doe not mean that it can't.

But, the odds are not good.

[joshcryer]

83. Turkey is a good example, but Turkey was forced via military junta.

Turkey shows that Islam and Muslim culture isn't "incompatible" with Democracy.

[razorman]

141. Turkey is still largely under military control.

They are also more secular that the other ME nations. Calling Turkey "democratic", though, is something of a stretch.

[nadinbrzezinski]

85. Of course Turkey, a democratic state, is not a muslim country

which I am sure will come as news to them too.

[snagglepuss]

32. You overstate their achievements. Had they achieved what you claim, the

"golden age" would not have fizzled away.

snip


The purpose of this analysis is to put the achievements of Golden Age Muslim scientists in the proper perspective, neither denigrating their achievements nor inflating them. All scientific and technological progress is accomplished in progression; Muslim achievements are but links in the chain. Few of the great Muslim scientific achievements stood alone, but were derived by Muslim scientists standing on the shoulders of those who came before them. Also, by transmitting Greek, Roman, Hindu, Persian and Egyptian knowledge (some of which may have been lost were it not for these Arabic translations), these Muslim scientists did humanity a great service.

While we do not take issue with the Muslim scientists, some of whom are acknowledged greats, we do think the lack of follow-up progress is a severe indictment of Islam. For instance, Newton (a non-Muslim scientist who was ranked as the second most influential person in history, by Michael H. Hart) and his work on optics lead to the invention of the telescope and microscope, and contributed to great strides in astronomy, geography, and microbiology. In contrast, Alhazen’s work on optics led to no new scientific breakthroughs.

Most occasions, the initial discovery (basic science) is not enough to create technological progress, the basic discovery has to be followed by applied science, which the Muslim scientists largely failed to do. For instance, Sir Alexander Fleming discovered Penicillin, but it also took Sir Howard Florey and Ernst Chain to develop a way to produce the antibiotic in therapeutic quantities. The Islamic Golden Age was mostly lacking in such scientific ‘follow-ups’ and allowed the works of their great scientists to wither on the vine or die stillborn.




http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Setting_the_Record_Straight:_The_Non-Miracle_of_Islamic_Science

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. If you mean very recent as in colonial and post colonial

I will agree... alas the history of the ME and NORTH AFRICA goes far longer into the past than the US or Europe.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. Bad, bad precedent to start life as a new democracy

careful boys, the new monsters that are now emerging might just be as bad as the last monster.

No, this is no joke.

[AmirDal]

10. Fuzzhead is NOT a nickname. I was supposed to be a scornful slur against non-euro Libyans

who had hair like a berber - the indiginous peoples of North Africa, not the straight hair of Libyans of European or Arab stock

[EFerrari]

128. Since these people have been attacking, imprisoning and killing black people

it's not surprising to hear them using a racial slur.

[malaise]

12. Libyans did not live hand to mouth

Please check the data bases. They lived better than most people in Africa.

[Fumesucker]

15. Shhh...

Facts are not allowed during the two minute hate..

Or before or after either for that matter, but definitely not during..

[AmirDal]

17. Average citizens live much better that average citizens in the United Kingdon according to

one report.

[snagglepuss]

20. What report?

[Amonester]

113. Those who were imprisoned (many for nothing) too?

Average prisoners in the U.K. tortured too?

[Joe the Revelator]

18. All hail the martyr Gaddaffi!

[snagglepuss]

22. Unbelievable really. Thousands of people, people like us, the 99% rise

up and sacrifice themselves to despose of a despicable anti-democratic, kleptomaniac, sociopathic dictator and DUers wring their hands. It staggers belief.

[Fumesucker]

27. No, what staggers belief is that the US government would be on the side of the 99%..

Which is why so many of us are really skeptical of the entire situation.

[joshcryer]

29. Who said that the US government was "on the side of the 99%"?

The US government has its own resource interests, it is only incidental that the 99% benefited from it. The US builds an interstate system to transport military equipment, the 99% benefit, does that mean that the building of an interstate system was "for" the 99%? No.

[pinboy3niner]

33. OT: Tick-tock, Josh, tick-tock

:evilgrin:

[joshcryer]

37. Ha!

LEAVE JOSH CRYER ALONE



(You seem to be pretty knowledgeable of memes, so I bet you get this.)

[pinboy3niner]

39. ROFL!

I've posted that on DU about a dozen times now (including earlier today).

[Fumesucker]

34. The post I was replying to certainly seemed to imply that..

Or that was my reading of it anyway.

[snagglepuss]

43. Why did the the US drag its feet? Why were the French and the UK ahead of the ball?

The delay suggests that the US wasn't keen on fulfilling the wishes the Libyan 99%. Check out the timeline if you don't recall how events unfolded.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_military_intervention_in_Libya


In March Time Magazine ran a piece about the slow response and outlines why US interest may not be served by Gadaffi's removal.

http://swampland.time.com/2011/03/18/why-are-we-going-to-war-with-libya/

[Fumesucker]

44. I can't tell if you're saying I'm right or I'm wrong..

:evilgrin:

[snagglepuss]

48. You are wrong in assuming that US interests are served by Gadaffi's ouster.

As was explained in the Time article, the US was not convinced that Gadaffi's ouster would be in their interest, given the political instability that mould ensue and the real possibility that Islamists might take power.

[Fumesucker]

53. I assume that there are factions whose interests may well be orthogonal..

That would hardly be a unique scenario.

[snagglepuss]

49. You are wrong in assuming that US interests are served by Gadaffi's ouster.

As was explained in the Time article, the US was not convinced that Gadaffi's ouster would be in their interest, given the political instability that mould ensue and the real possibility that Islamists might take power.

[joshcryer]

30. I had someone actually pretend that the Libyan people "weren't the 99%."

It beggars belief, because Gaddafi has been recently reported to have (edit: had) a net worth of $200 billion. Oh, it's "OK" because he helped Libya have a standard of living in the middle of what the Latin America stats, and far below the rest of the middle east oil states.

Beggars belief.

[dionysus]

42. he was the FDR of the middle east, man, i read it here. and they KILLED HIM DEAD!11!11111

and people like you are happy!

:sarcasm:

[MattBaggins]

111. Hey George Bush is that you?

A or B. With or against. No other choices allowed.

Glad that Gaddafi is gone, but he was killed after being captured, which is murder. He was a ruthless tyrant who may very well be replaced by another given the stellar qualities of the rebels.

Yes DU it is possible that the rebels might be just as bad.

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

[mark7sys]

115. That's just what I've been thinking: I am all amazement

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=2159087&mesg_id=2162158

[snagglepuss]

101. What I don't get is that Gadaffi and his family are part of the 1%. They like

others in the 1% are responsible for the bottomless pit of misery and injustice on Earth. They deserve nothing but scorn an contempt.

[CJvR]

41. It seems as if...

...there is some branches remaining on the old Gadaffi family tree that still needs a bit of pruning.

[Tx4obama]

52. Here's a link with a list and info regarding Gaddafi's children

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaddafi#Marriages_and_children

[polly7]

54. Wtf ?? Are you saying his daughter should be killed? n/t.

[snagglepuss]

55. I am saying the piece of filth should live her life in fear. If killed I won't lose sleep..

[polly7]

56. Why, because she happened to be born his daughter?

That's pretty damned sick. Should she have run away at the age of three?

Did you choose your parents?

[AngkorWot]

57. It's not like she's some innocent victim.

She's a co-conspirator in crimes against humanity.

[polly7]

61. LOL. Better round up the Bush and Cheney girls for crimes against

humanity and ship them off to the Hague, eh? How sad.

[AngkorWot]

65. If they actually were guilty, that would be fine with me.

[polly7]

66. LMAO at the hypocrisy.

[AngkorWot]

68. that word

I do not think it means what you think it means.

[JI7]

91. Bush daughters weren't involved the way Gaddafi's daughter was

[chill_wind]

95. Oh hell, you can't even get anyone to round up the fathers.

Looking forward. A time for reflection, not retribution. Yoo was just guilty of bad judgement. So what if they destroyed the CIA tapes. No Witch Hunts for torturers and all that happy shit.

Now medical marijauna...

[polly7]

100. Yes, it's pretty unfair, isn't it? I still have hope they'll be prosectued

somehow ... somewhere. The lives of all those they've destroyed have to mean something.

[snagglepuss]

60. She is a lawyer who knew her father was a deranged sociopath. She

lived a parastic life off her father and remained silent in face of his endless human rights abuses.

[polly7]

64. See above. n/t.

[CJvR]

102. Actually...

...she had also served on the sharp end of the regime as an officer in the military.

[emilyg]

63. Nasty. post.

[AngkorWot]

69. In fairness, she's a nasty human being.

[emilyg]

88. She might be. I don't know

much about her.

[nadinbrzezinski]

98. And you know this exactly how?

I mean the sons, especially the ones involved in the army... you got a point... but somehow I don't recall her being there...

Perhaps you got evidence.

You of course know there are actually relatives of good ol' Adolph that survived the war... so would you have taken them to the wall and shot them? We call that guilty by association...

So please show me evidence that will stand in a court of law.

[CJvR]

105. She was also...

...involved with the army, as you put it. Both by blood, marriage and personal service.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayesha_Gaddafi

[nadinbrzezinski]

110. So have the hague issue the arrest warrant

Easy peachy.

[Lyric]

142. The Hague isn't interested in prosecuting wealthy, powerful people.

The international community only seems to care about human rights abuses when poor people do it--like the people of Libya. Ayesha Gadhafi, with all of her wealth, is quite safe from The Hague, just like the Cheneys and Bushes of the world.

[MattBaggins]

116. What do blood and marriage have to do with anything?

Personal service is the only one that has anyimportance to matters of law.

[snagglepuss]

73. I assume that if I did a search I'd find you posting the same response to Duers

who despise Bush, Cheney etc etc?

[emilyg]

86. Go for it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

97. WOW, just wow...

[MattBaggins]

114. What is wrong with you

Do you have research and reason to call her a piece of filth or all kids just automatically lumped into filth/non-filth categories based on DNA in your world?

[snagglepuss]

119. I'd ask the same of you. What don't you understand about the 1% of which

she is part of? Not only is she a parasite living off Gadaffi's crimes, she is a well educated lawyer who knows exactly how Gadaffi terrorized the Libyans. She has done nothing but support and laud him and not just him but Saddam and the IRA as well.

[MattBaggins]

121. Then research and document what she has done.

She ought to be properly charged for any crimes she has commited but without reasons to back up your rants, you come off as a bit murder happy.

[snagglepuss]

123. Hardly murder. Gadaffi got the fight he wanted. He had more than ample

opportunity over the last 8 months to surrender to international forces and be taken to the Hague. He didn't go that route. In the pitch of battle, civilians who have taken up arms to rid themselves of a tyrant, many without any prior military experience dealt with a situation the best way they knew how. As men, who were there said, Gadaffi was promising millions for his freedom, none of them knew whether any of them might have taken the bribe and allowed Gadaffi to escape. They also would have known that even if they had handed him over to someone else Gadaffi forces may have swoooped in to free him.

Do you think that the oh so revered American revolutionaries had clean hands? What about the French revolution which inspired the British colonists? Their hands dripped with blood but did that stop American revolutionaries.

Get real. Revolutions normally are violent, for good reason - tryants don't leave on their own accord.

[MattBaggins]

130. Don't tell me to get real

I am a combat vet with 10 years service but I make no claim to be an expert on the matter. I am glad Gaddafi has been ousted, but I am not an animal and do not revel in death as you seem to.

Please stop with the high school apologetics about "poor simple folks" and "my friends sister's boyfriends cousin" claimed he tried to bribe people. He should have been properly handled after capture and you have no concept of law of warfare.

[snagglepuss]

131. Who said anything about poor simple folk? Gadaffi begging for his life

is on the record. This is a revolution mostly fought by men who had never had any military training. Please cite when and where they were taught about the laws of warfare.

[snagglepuss]

125. Show me where I stated she should be murdered? I said I hope she lives

in fear. I hope she has to live the way Libyans have had to live never knowing when someone would turn them in, not knowing when police would come knocking. As for Gadaffi< damn right I am happy he is dead, I'd be happier if was brought to trial but there is no reason to believe that he would not have escaped had he lived.

[CJvR]

89. I doubt...

...you would kill any innocents if you hanged all of Gadaffi's closest relatives.

However Saif al Islam is the best candidate for a bit of retroactive birth control, the rest seems likely to live in disgustingly luxurious exile on the wealth that they and daddy managed to steal from Libya

[AngkorWot]

47. I heard the family wanted the body.

I was thinking they should tell the family to report to the nearest police station and they'll see him soon enough.

[bluestate10]

70. The government should at least give the family the body.

Refrigerate it, drive it to a border crossing and hand it over to family representatives. That act would sit well with the rest of civilization.

[AngkorWot]

71. No, they shouldn't.

The family embezzled hundreds of billions of dollars from the Libyan people.

The family should turn themselves in.

[snagglepuss]

74. Exactly.

[Tx4obama]

92. I vote NO.

Gaddafi never returned all the bodies of the Libyans he had killed and then had buried in mass graves.

I think they should take Gaddafi's body out to sea and give him a Bin Laden funeral.

[nadinbrzezinski]

99. Actually, and they are somewhat late for that

doing what you propose will only... complicate matters... I am not even goring to try to explain it anymore. The hate here is just amazing.

[Tx4obama]

104. It is not too late.

Here's an excerpt:

SNIP

Oil minister Ali Tarhouni told Reuters that Col Gaddafi's body may be kept "for a few days" and the reports suggest authorities are planning a secret burial, leading to speculation the Colonel might, just like Osama Bin laden be buried at sea, to prevent his grave from being turned into a shrine.

SNIP

[nadinbrzezinski]

106. Here is what I mean

this is a tribal society... one reason taking sirte took so long is that it is not just the birthplace of the colonel... but it is the center of power for that tribe. I am talking national reconciliation, and why they will have to let the family alone, for the most part...

Something like South Africa's truth and reconciliation might be in order.

But hey... thankfully I don't live there, and the hate I am seeing here is turning my stomach.

[bluestate10]

117. I seldom, if ever agree with you on issues.

But on this, we are of one mind. Libyan authorities could do more for Libya by turning the body over to relatives at a border. If relatives then sneak that body back in Libya, they would like like animals.

[Name removed]

136. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[chill_wind]

122. Sounds like there's an agreement

Ghadafi's body to be released to his family

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/ghadafis-body-to-be-released-to-his-family/story-fn3dxity-1226174340795

[bluestate10]

62. I can't second your wish on Gadffi's family living in fear.

But I too she no tears for Gadaffi. The man brutally murdered thousands of his own citizens and hundreds of innocent passengers on at least two airplane. Gadaffi now sits in hell beside bin laden and other terrorists. Libyans are now free of the parasite.

[TheKentuckian]

77. Love your Dark Age style complete with full on corruption of blood and everything

Way to be a credit to all that evolution.

[snagglepuss]

78. Perhaps you need to enlighten yourself as to the actions of his children before

making absurd staements. His progeny aren't scum because an unfortunate act of fate, they are scum because they were actively involved in the regime.

[Mimosa]

93. Snagglepuss, please don't get discouraged.

Evolved, kind, decent human beings don't revel in death and violence.

[snagglepuss]

A tad judgemental for someone so evolved and decent.

[EFerrari]

132. From someone who unselfconsciously reposts racial slurs.

This is not DU's finest hour.

[snagglepuss]

135. That is one absurd comment. Ever heard of not shooting the messenger?

As for the uttered the slur, I can't believe you are faulting someone for doing so when he and other civilians have risked their lives to despose a tyrant and were fighting for lives up to othe moment they caught him. I hope you are equally outraged that Gadaffi called the rebels rats.

[snagglepuss]

96. Duplicate post. .

[Amonester]

120. Since Greedyfi was...

Libya's 0.000000000000000000000000000000001%...

And since she also is...

I would have said "old greedyfuck fuzzhead"

:party:

[snagglepuss]

124. Spot on.

[Amonester]

126. Yep. And without any remorse. :-) n t