Free Libya Wrapup part 2

[joshcryer]

[joshcryer]

1. Free Libya Wrapup Day 3 updates below, current time in Libya, 8:04am aturday, October 23

Photo: http://libyanstreetart.blogspot.com/

I am almost certain that this is a bit of graffiti from early on in the revolution. It (or one like it) told me a story that most might not get from simply one image. You see, Libyan's were early on called "pawns" of empire by http://www.google.com/search?q=+site:democraticunderground.com+libya+pawns">foreign analysists. And here, we have a 'pawn' knocking out a King/Queen chess piece. It is purely introspective, it is purely self-aware. It is absolutely revolutionary. When I saw this picture, I knew then that the revolution was going to be OK. As soon as you recognize the external forces that are out there to manipulate you, you can take those forces and manage them.

And that's precisely what the revolutionaries have done and will continue to do. No occupying troops on the ground, no military bases in the future, no oil contract renegotiation.

They got this.

[pinboy3niner]

2. K&R

Oh, is it time for a new thread already? I...








...didn't...









...even....














realize... :rofl:

[joshcryer]

3. Sorry. :)

My brother got a new "heist" game that we were trying out. Nah, you probably don't want to know. :rofl:

[tabatha]

5. Hey, I hate empty space.

It is just that scrolling down through it is irritating.

[pinboy3niner]

7. *evilgrin*

MiddleFingerMom told me this is the way it's done. :)

[joshcryer]

4. For Libyan fighters, a hero's welcome in Benghazi

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/for-libyan-fighters-a-heros-welcome-in-benghazi/2011/10/22/gIQAlWoa7L_story.html">For Libyan fighters, a hero's welcome in Benghazi
The fighters who finished off the last of fallen leader Moammar Gaddafi’s forces returned to a hero’s welcome in the birthplace of the Libyan revolution on Saturday as thousands of flag-waving residents poured into the streets to cheer the convoy.

“God is great! God is great!” the crowd chanted as fighters in an assortment of green and blue camouflage rode on pickup trucks armed with machine guns and rocket launchers. The beaming troops, returning from the last holdout of Sirte, tossed candy to the crowd and flashed V-for-victory signs.

Libya’s interim government is expected to formally declare the war over and the country liberated on Sunday, eight months after anti-Gaddafi demonstrations erupted in Benghazi, triggering the first war of the Arab Spring.

International human rights groups have expressed alarm about indications that Gaddafi may have been killed in captivity by revolutionaries as Sirte fell Thursday. But no one at the parade here Saturday seemed disturbed by that possibility, recalling how the former leader jailed, tortured and killed thousands.

[tabatha]

6. Worth repeating.

To overthrow oppression has been sanctioned by humanity
and is the highest aspiration of every free man.
Nelson Mandela, September 1953

During my lifetime I have dedicated myself
to this struggle of the African people.
I have fought against white domination,
and I have fought against black domination.
I have cherished the ideal of a democratic and free society
in which all persons live together
in harmony and with equal opportunities.
It is an ideal which I hope to live for and to achieve.
But if needs be, it is an ideal for which I am prepared to die.
Nelson Mandela


Vive Libya, Tunisia, Yemen, Egypt, Syria and the 99ers.

[tabatha]

8. How a daring band of anti-Qaddafi activists helped turn the tide in Tripoli

Members of the Free Generation Movement pose with a Free Libya flag in Tripoli, where they operated. L. to r.: Zahraa Jadda, Ali Abuzayan, Mukhtar Mhani, Honida Mhani, Haneen Hawida, Hamza Mhani, and Mervat Mhani. Not shown: leader Nizar Mhani.
Scott Peterson/Getty Images

War and Conflict Libyan Conflict Arab Spring Peacekeeping and Security
They were the enemy within, the "rats" Col. Muammar Qaddafi wanted pursued down every alley and inside every closet.

They didn't win the war: The rebel military assaults instead came from the east and then the west. But in Tripoli they took grave risks to raise the rebel flag, spread leaflets, and burned pictures of Qaddafi. Perhaps most important, they filmed and broadcast their actions – heartening fellow Libyans and letting the world know that opposition could exist, even here.

This handful of bold revolutionaries – just 20 in all, most of them family or longtime friends – had a leader, whose nickname is Niz, unafraid to speak out. He was quoted by journalists, used Twitter, and posted to Facebook. His very presence inside the citadel of Tripoli undermined Qaddafi's claim that "all my people love me."

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2011/1021/How-a-daring-band-of-anti-Qaddafi-activists-helped-turn-the-tide-in-Tripoli

[tabatha]

9. Tunisia's election through the eyes of women

The role of women in the new Tunisia has been a controversial issue throughout the transitional period, with some fearful that they would lose precious rights from the previous era, and others arguing for a return to traditional values.

Early on in the democratic transition, an ambitious gender parity law was introduced to ensure women would have a voice in the constituent assembly.

For some, however, this law did not go far enough. There are no gender quotas for seats in the assembly, for example. And most parties have men at the head of the majority of their lists, meaning parity on the campaign trail is unlikely to translate into parity in the body that will rewrite the country’s constitution and appoint a new government.

Al Jazeera’s Yasmine Ryan spoke to a diverse range of Tunisian women about how they have experienced the campaign period, and their aspirations for the future.

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/spotlight/2011tunisiaelection/2011/10/20111022104341755235.html

[tabatha]

10. Seif El Islam: "I am well and...damn you all rats"

(Oh, oh --- trouble)

The son of the former Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi, who was killed on Thursday with his other son Moatassim, near the city of Sirte, Seif El Islam, said yesterday that he was well, putting an end to reports saying he would be dead or arrested by the fighters of the NTC.

In an audio recording, broadcast by pro-Gaddafi TV channel "Erraï", and addressing the loyalist elements of the regime of his father, he assured that "the resistance will continue until the end."

http://www.ennaharonline.com/en/international/7527.html

UPDATE

This was about earlier reports that Saif had been captured, when he had not:

libyanproud on Twitter: "I followed that story , it was someone using a Zliten council member's name and his phone, the imposter has been arrested." (10hrs ago)

[ellisonz]

11. Witness to history: Butte native first journalist to see Gadhafi’s body

Witness to history: Butte native first journalist to see Gadhafi’s body

By NICK GEVOCK Montana Standard | Posted: Sunday, October 23, 2011 12:00 am | (0) Comments

Holly Pickett sensed that something big had just taken place in Libya.

The news instinct for the Butte native and freelance photojournalist was dead on as she rode along with an ambulance crew near Sirte, where Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi had been hiding.

“We pulled over next to a group of revolutionaries standing next to a house to try to find out exactly what was happening,” Pickett said in an email to the Standard. “Suddenly an ambulance roars by us on the road.

“It is packed with perhaps 10 revolutionaries and they are screaming, ‘We have Shafshufa (frizz head), he’s finished!’”

Read more: http://helenair.com/news/local/state-and-regional/da44d802-fd3f-11e0-b1c4-001cc4c03286.html#ixzz1baM7uM2y

Suggests Mutassim was captured first...

[tabatha]

12. Djibril Mahmoud Muammar Gaddafi would prefer to be alive (translation)

Djibril Mahmoud Muammar Gaddafi would prefer to be alive

Mahmoud Djibril, the Prime Minister in the interim power Libyan Muammar Gaddafi would have preferred to be tried for his crimes rather than killed Thursday after his capture. The remains of the former Libyan leader has been exposed to Misrata Saturday. It bears the marks of injuries that seem to have been inflicted by the combatants having extricated alive Thursday in a pipe near Sirte.

"To be honest with you, personally, I wish he was still alive. I want to know why he has inflicted all the Libyan people," said Mahmoud Djibril Saturday in an interview with the BBC and including extracts were made public prior to its release Sunday. "I wish I was the prosecutor at his trial, you know," he adds. "Because that's the question everyone asks: why? The Libyan people deserve what he did during 42 years of oppression, murders, all of this?"

Navi Pillay, United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights, called for an investigation into the circumstances of the death of the former Libyan leader. Asked if he would allow a thorough investigation conducted by an international team, Djibril Mahmoud replied: "Yes, that's fine with us but with respect to the body when it is buried according to Muslim ritual after (...) he is buried, he is buried.

"We have the coroner's report, I myself saw the body. I can testify that there are no bruises on his face or body." Mahmoud Djibril admits that there was "limited to violations of human rights" during the Libyan revolution.

It also suggests that the Libyan authorities could seek support from NATO beyond the probable end of his mission on October 31. "I do not think this is necessary, but just in case," he said.

http://www.ladepeche.fr/article/2011/10/23/1199170-libye-mouammar-kadhafi-mort-sans-autopsie.html

[tabatha]

13. Gaddafi's final hours

Utterly ravaged by months of bombardments, Sirte was a skeleton of a city – a place without food, water or light; a city without citizens. Its streets were turned into rivers by burst pipes, as fighters battled through waist-high swathes of mud brown water, street by bloody street.

But as the sun rose over the shell of Sirte on Thursday, it was immediately apparent that something had changed.

I had arrived at the rebel position in the western suburb of Zafran in anticipation of another massed assault into District Two – the final pocket where Gaddafi loyalists had been holding out. Rebels from Misurata had told me the day before to be ready early to witness a home-made armoured battering ram, and their few tanks spearhead what they boasted would be a decisive thrust into the remaining bastion of defenders.

Little did we know, at that point, that Gaddafi had also decided that it was time for the endgame.

The embattled leader had been forced to retreat to an area 1000 yards by 500 yards, and was desperately moving from house to house, trying to evade capture.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8843684/Gaddafis-final-hours-Nato-and-the-SAS-helped-rebels-drive-hunted-leader-into-endgame-in-a-desert-drain.html

[pinboy3niner]

14. In His Last Days, Qaddafi Wearied of Fugitive’s Life

Source: New York Times

By KAREEM FAHIM
Published: October 22, 2011


MISURATA, Libya — After 42 years of absolute power in Libya, Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi spent his last days hovering between defiance, anger and delusion, surviving on rice and pasta his guards scrounged from the emptied civilian houses he moved between every few days, according to an aide captured with him.

Under siege by the former rebels for weeks, Colonel Qaddafi grew impatient with life on the run in the city of Surt, said the aide, Mansour Dhao Ibrahim, the leader of the country’s People Guard, a network of loyalist volunteers and informants. “He would say: ‘Why is there no electricity? Why is there no water?’ ”

Mr. Dhao, who stayed close to Colonel Qaddafi throughout the siege, said that he and other aides repeatedly counseled the colonel to leave power or the country, but that the colonel and one of his sons, Muatassim, would not even consider the option.

Still, though some of the colonel’s supporters portrayed him as bellicose to the end, armed at the front lines, he actually did not take part in the fighting, Mr. Dhao said, instead preferring to read or make calls on his satellite phone. “I’m sure not a single shot was fired,” he said.

...


Colonel Qaddafi fled to Surt on the day Tripoli fell, in a small convoy. “He was very afraid of NATO,” said Mr. Dhao, who joined him about a week later. The decision to stay in the city had been Muatassim’s, who reasoned that the city, long known as an important pro-Qaddafi stronghold and under frequent bombardment by NATO airstrikes, was the last place anyone would look.

...


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/23/world/africa/in-his-last-days-qaddafi-wearied-of-fugitives-life.html

[ellisonz]

15. Autopsy Performed on Gaddafi

26 min 35 sec ago - Libya

An autopsy on Muammar Gaddafi's body was carried out last night, an unnamed source who was one of thoee involved, has told the Reuters news agency.

"We worked all through the night. We just got done," said the source, who spoke on condition of anonymity. He did not reveal any of the autopsy's findings.

The autopsy was carried out at a morgue in the city of Misrata, about 200 km (130 miles) east of Tripoli. Local officials said Gaddafi's body would now be brought back to the cold store at an old market in Misrata where it has been on public display.

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/liveblog/libya

[pinboy3niner]

16. Autopsy occurred at morgue in Misrata; corpse will be returned to commercial freezer at shopping cen

Gadhafi update: Autopsy occurred at morgue in Misrata, Libya; corpse will be returned to commercial freezer at shopping center - Reuters

8:24AM GMT

[ellisonz]

17. Switzerland to assist the NTC

40 min 42 sec ago - Libya

The Swiss government has offered to help Libya's transition to democracy by assisting with disarming the population and contributing to demining efforts, the country's foreign minister has been quoted in a Swiss newspaper as saying.

In an interview with the Sonntag newspaper, Micheline Calmy-Rey detailed three possible ways in which Switzerland could help Libya rebuild after its eight-month civil war.

"I can imagine Switzerland engaging in three concrete areas during the transition phase: in disarming the population, in reforming the security forces as well as in demining," she said. "Our security centres in Geneva have the necessary expertise. Switzerland is also ready to take part in a UN mission."

Regarding funds frozen in Swiss bank accounts, she said:

"Certainly we hope that the 265 million francs ($300 million) that are still in Switzerland can soon be released. Around 90 per cent of them belong to state-owned Libyan companies. We assume that the UN Security Council will make a decision about releasing these state funds relatively soon."

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/liveblog/libya

[pinboy3niner]

18. Mortars, tanks, quiet now at Libya's "war museum"

Sun Oct 23, 2011 8:56am GMT

• Rebels, families pick over spoils of war

• Exhibits include metal eagle from Gaddafi home

• 42 years of Gaddafi is long time, returning exile says


By Tim Gaynor


MISRATA, Libya, Oct 23 (Reuters) - Gazing out over an ad hoc collection of tanks, mortars and Molotov cocktails seized in fierce fighting against Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi's forces, Mokhtar Ahmed was ecstatic.

"The rebels made the Libyan people's dreams a reality," he said, reviewing the impromptu war museum that has sprung up on Misrata's bomb-blasted Tripoli Street.

Its exhibits were plucked from the battlefields where militias loyal to Gaddafi, who was captured and killed last week, were defeated.

A sign placed on a tank blasted by a NATO warplane reads "Abu Shafshufa's gallery," a derisive nickname for Gaddafi, mocking his unruly, curly hair.

...


http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7LM0O020111023?sp=true

[pinboy3niner]

19. Gaddafi died from a gunshot wound - doctor

Sun Oct 23, 2011 9:57am GMT


MISRATA Oct 23 (Reuters) - Muammar Gaddafi died from a gunshot wound, a doctor involved in an overnight autopsy on the former Libyan leader's body told Reuters.

"He died because of a gunshot wound. It is obvious," the doctor said, giving no details about whether it was from an apparent gunshot wound on the left side of Gaddafi's head.

...


http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7LN07S20111023

[ellisonz]

20. Musa Kusa traced to Qatar resort

Musa Kusa traced to Qatar resort
Libya's former foreign minister has been traced to a luxury resort in Qatar, according to reports.
23 Oct 2011

Musa Kusa is believed to have been an intelligence officer at the time of the 1988 Lockerbie bomb atrocity in which 270 people were killed.

He made a high-profile defection to Britain in March and was interviewed by police and Scottish prosecutors investigating the bombing.

He left the country following an EU decision to lift sanctions against him, meaning he no longer faces travel restrictions or an asset freeze.

----

Kusa was head of Colonel Muammar Gaddafi's intelligence agency from 1994 and a senior intelligence agent when PanAm flight 103 was blown up over Lockerbie.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-24001372-musa-kusa-traced-to-qatar-resort.do

Old Fuzzhead and his sons could be in Venezuela right now sitting on a beach drinking cocktails with little umbrellas in them...but no he had to kill tens of thousands of his own people in a desperate bid to hold onto power that he had already lost at face value. :crazy:

[joshcryer]

21. Libya to Declare Liberation, Lines Form to View Qaddafi Body

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-10-23/libya-to-declare-liberation-lines-form-to-view-qaddafi-body.html">Libya to Declare Liberation, Lines Form to View Qaddafi Body
Libya is preparing to officially declare its liberation today following the death of Muammar Qaddafi, the autocrat who ruled the North African country for more than four decades.

Libyans have been lining up to see Qaddafi’s body, which is on public display in the western city of Misrata. Qaddafi will be interred at an undisclosed location “to protect the burial site from being desecrated,” according to Hassan Essghayr, a member of the interim National Transitional Council.

Qaddafi’s death on Oct. 20 came after eight months of fighting between loyalists and the one-time rebels who now run the country after seizing the capital, Tripoli, in August. A new government will face the task of restoring order and reviving an economy in a country where unemployment, according to acting Prime Minister Mahmoud Jibril, tops 30 percent and foreign companies have fled due to security concerns.

Jibril said he will resign after the declaration, keeping a commitment he made to leave once the Qaddafi regime fell. Jibril said he had asked the acting minister of oil and finance, Ali Tarhouni, to manage affairs until a new government is formed.

[joshcryer]

22. Libya's image 'stained' by Gaddafi death - Hammond

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15420312">Libya's image 'stained' by Gaddafi death - Hammond
Defence Secretary Philip Hammond has said the new Libyan government's reputation has been "a little bit stained" by the killing of Col Gaddafi.

Speaking to BBC One's Andrew Marr Show, Mr Hammond expressed disappointment that the former leader was killed before he had a chance to face trial.

"It's certainly not the way we do things," Mr Hammond said.

"We would have liked to see Col Gaddafi going on trial to answer for his misdeeds," he went on.

Bullshit. MI6's filthy laundry would've been aired.

[joshcryer]

23. 3 hours 19 minutes until Libya is declared free. :)

http://www.koco.com/r/29562453/detail.html">Libya's New Leaders Set To Declare Liberation
Libya's interim leaders are expected to declare liberation on Sunday, ushering in a new era after the death of longtime ruler Moammar Gadhafi.

Libya's National Transitional Council will hold a ceremony at 4 p.m. Sunday (10 a.m. ET) in Benghazi, the city where the uprising started.

After a series of speeches, Mustafa Jalil, the chairman of the National Transitional Council, is expected to issue the liberation declaration.

Earlier Sunday, doctors completed Gadhafi's autopsy at a Misrata hospital, with the chief pathologist confirming the former strongman died of a gunshot wound to the head.

[pinboy3niner]

24. :)

[ellisonz]

25. Look Back: CNN: Voices from a Benghazi rally - February 24, 2011

Uploaded by CNN on Feb 24, 2011

CNN's Ben Wedeman's gives a firsthand account from a rally in Benghazi, Libya.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qyb1uXUbJWY

8 Months Later All of Libya is Free! Good Night and Good Luck!

[pinboy3niner]

26. Misrata: "City going completely wild"

--Al Jazeera's Hoda Abdel-Hamid on the anticipation ofthe announcement of national liberation.

"Today for them is the most important day," she said, "for then it will make it all worthwhile."

[pinboy3niner]

27. Libyans flock to Benghazi for "liberation" party

Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:31am GMT


By Yasmine Saleh and Brian Rohan

BENGHAZI Oct 23 (Reuters) - Nothing in the world could stop Abdallah Idris from missing a ceremony to declare Libya's liberation from four decades of Muammar Gaddafi's rule in the eastern city of Benghazi on Sunday.

Eager to join an event authorities say could draw a million people to the birthplace of the Libyan uprising, the 30-year-old prosecutor convinced officials to let him and his two nieces board a jarring military flight from the capital Tripoli.

"I was in the streets when Gaddafi sent his troops to kill the peaceful protesters in Benghazi last February," he told Reuters over the deafening roar of engines in the stripped-down cargo plane. "I have seen the killings and horror with my own eyes ... (There's) no way I can miss today."

...


http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7LN0CS20111023?sp=true

[joshcryer]

28. UW student reflects on Libya after Gadhafi

http://www.laramieboomerang.com/articles/2011/10/23/news/doc4ea3924cc8ad4316668485.txt">UW student reflects on Libya after Gadhafi
Even thousands of miles away, Nour Abuagila knew something had changed in the air of his home country.

It was 2 a.m. Friday when University of Wyoming graduate student Abuagila first heard about the death of Moammar Gadhafi in his home country of Libya online.

“I read that but it was unconfirmed, and I stayed up until 8 in the morning,” reading news, Abuagila, who studies communications and journalism at UW, said.

“I think from this moment, life has begun,” he said. “And from this moment, all Libyans can breathe their freedom deeply. From this moment also, the air in Libya is full of freedom. This is an important thing.”

[Iterate]

29. USIP: Extending Libya's Transitional Period

Extending Libya's Transitional Period: Capitalizing on the Constitutional Moment
September 2011 | Peace Brief by Jason Gluck

Summary

The National Transitional Council (NTC) new Constitutional Declaration is a critical develop ment in Libya’s transition to democracy. But while most features of the document are very positive, the relatively short timeline for the transition may create significant challenges.

The current road map provides 60 days for the drafting of the constitution, followed by approval by the National Public Conference (NPC) and then ratification by national referendum. Sixty days is an almost impossibly short time to research, examine, negotiate and draft the numerous constitutional issues that must be addressed in the permanent constitution.

The compressed timeline effectively guarantees there will be no public consultation on the constitutional draft.

Transforming the process from a negotiation driven by the Libyan elite to a national dialogue, with public participation, can provide a framework for negotiation and reconciliation among political forces and other groups to develop, strengthen and promote national identity.

The rush to complete Libya’s transition to constitutional democracy is understandable. The NTC is attempting to assure Libyans it has no intention of dragging out the transitional period and holding on to power indefinitely, and it is protecting the legitimacy of the interim government—all laudable goals. Such considerations, however, should be balanced against the benefits of a longer and more participatory constitution-making process.

About This Brief

This Peace Brief examines the timeline for constitutional reform in Libya’s August 2011 Constitutional Declaration with an eye towards ensuring Libyans have sufficient time to negotiate and draft a new constitution that will support Libya’s transformation towards constitutional democracy. The views expressed in it do not necessarily reflect the views of the United States Institute of Peace, which does not advocate specific policy positions.

http://www.usip.org/publications/extending-libya-s-transitional-period-capitalizing-the-constitutional-moment
Download pdf: http://www.usip.org/files/resources/PB104.pdf

The NTC will probably be adjusting the timing for elections and a constitution several times. Though our first inclination might be "ASAP, what's the problem?", it's not adjusted without thought. Elections too soon can cause more conflict than they resolve, and too late can allow temporary power arrangements or old habits to set like concrete in the political domain. The same considerations apply to the formation of a constitution.

I know. Today isn't the day for heavy reading. It's only four pages.

[joshcryer]

30. AJE live now in Libya. Hope they cover the speech live.

edit: over now, but that was the first intro into the various reporters in Libya.

[joshcryer]

31. Tune in, Al Jazeera is covering it now, children are everywhere, amazing:

http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/

[joshcryer]

32. New appointee for Ministry for Martyrs, Wounded and Missing just spoke, transcription:

Revolutionaries of new Libya are writing a new history, even those in NATO didn't think we could bring an end to this. They thought that a military ending wasn't possible. But the revolutionaries took on this battle and came out victorious, and here is Libya, unified by it's people. On this day I cannot neglect to mention those great men who have sacrificed their blood on the battlefield, on the Land of Libya, so their souls may rest in heaven, and the shame will be on Gaddafi and his followers. God is great.

I also cannot miss on this great day to remember the great men of all people of Libya, the mothers and fathers of the martyrs who have pushed their children into the battlefield, as they knew they would not come back. Thousands of martyrs, we must stand in honor to those people, to salute them, on this great even. I must also congratulate Jalil on our unity. I must also congratulate Jibril, this man of this transitional period. And Dr Tahruna, who led this in these times.

I remind them not to forget the words that entered into history books and will continued to be remembered by Libya. The king who was disposed said "maintaining independence is harder than achieving it." These words if they had been followed, we would not have been in this position. These 42 years have taken a lot, but these years were not in vein. On this historic day, I'd like to tell you, that TNC, deep feelings that martyrs and wounded and missing is an important part of Libyan society, and without them we would not have them here today.

TNC has resolution 257 for the creation Ministry for Martyrs, Wounded and Missing. This is one of the most important files under their authority. It is the ultimate file, the martyrs wounded and missing. I would like to tell you that I have taken this title and I pray to god to help me and for the support of all here. We shouldn't forget the fallen.

[Iterate]

35. ...long live Libya...long live Free Libya.

That was the closing to Mo's statement that night. We remember the first part, but now the closing has become real.

While watching I was also playing a vid that was made after the fall of Tripoli and posted Sept 10.

A Free Libya (This Is War)
http://youtu.be/QMzSmJ_APxY

No, I can still never make it through in one go.

[joshcryer]

36. Mo has been on my mind this entire time, seeing all the Benghazi locations, just...

...wonderful. I wish he could've seen it. I truly wish I'd signed up that night and told him to stay home. But I know he would not have listened to me.

[joshcryer]

33. AJE: Jalil to announce Libya's liberation very soon:

[joshcryer]

34. No celebratory gunfire, children everywhere. Remarkable. Utterly remarkable.

I knew that Libya was 1/3rd children but it's just amazing to see them in these numbers, just, breathtaking.

[joshcryer]

37. This is what support looks like (Gaddafi never pulled these numbers, not once):

[joshcryer]

38. Jalil speaking now. "42 years to get to this moment."

[Cerridwen]

39. What did I just hear him say about number of wives and Sharia Law?

I was busy with something else as I was listening and missed what he said.

[Iterate]

40. couldn't quite catch it either

and not sure of the translation at that.

Banks --- loan forgiveness and interest free banks.

We should have a transcript soon.

[Cerridwen]

41. Found it on twitter; reinstating polygyny. Peachy.

[joshcryer]

43. *Not* "reinstating." Polygamy was legal in Libya.

[Iterate]

44. Two steps forward, one step back

It was strange to include that mention in the speech -seemed like a political gesture. Hardly a core social value.

[joshcryer]

47. It was a very weak gesture since polygyny was legal in Libya already. Libyan's aren't "in" to it.

They're moderate Muslims.

[Iterate]

48. After reading the transcript...

Oh I knew they weren't "into it" and that's why the surprise that it was even mentioned.

After reading the transcript though I get it, because the real subject was fear of change in the marriage laws and I had hadn't heard that anyone was concerned about such a thing.

He mentioned at banking nearly the same time and in the same reassuring fashion, essentially saying "don't worry about marriage and money right now." The next paragraph focuses on taking care of fighters and the families of martyrs. Then property disputes (which will be huge).

Essentially, he was calming people's fears of continued upset in their personal lives.

[joshcryer]

42. Libya's law on wives required you to "prove" that you can afford another wife and to have the...

...consent of the first wife to get a second one. He was saying that the "Law of Marriage" is to be abolished, so, as far as Libya is concerned the change is that you don't have to prove that you have the money to afford a second wife and that you don't need the consent of the first wife.

Since polygamy http://genderindex.org/country/libya">was legal in Libya before hand, it is a minor change.

Since Libyan polygamy is uncommon it will leave things mostly unchanged.

The "no interest" fact of the banks is a big deal because this is one reason the http://www.newcivilisation.com/home/islamic-civilisation/mustafa-abdul-jalil-and-the-great-shari’ah-divide">west hates sharia law.

[Cerridwen]

45. Polygamy means multiple spouses; polygyny is multiple wives.

It's not the implementation; it's the intent. It's what I've been watching for hoping I wouldn't see it. Silly me.

Please don't misunderstand; I still support the Libyan people. It's just that I actually include the "other" 50% as part of the people.

edit: I hate that spell check doesn't do the damned subject line.

[joshcryer]

46. Transcription of Jalil's speech:

Your revolution now is safe, whether in the barracks or cities or public squares or in prisons, within or outside the country. Libyan's save no effort in the rev against Gaddafi and his regime, but the moment only happened to be suitable this year.

This revolution started as a peaceful movement, demanding the minimum of legitimate rights, however it was faced with excessive violence, and God has provided help starting from the gulf corporation council, and Arab League, and Conference of Islamic Organization and EU and UN that has issued its famous resolution 1973 to protect civilians in Libya.

This resolution that was supervised and implemented by NATO with high efficiency and professionalism aided by a lot of friends and brothers until the Libyans achieved their goal and their victory. This revolution, god has made it, and has brought friends to help, including those at the forefront, those brave fighters who carried the banner of jihad to defend their land. So we thank the fighters who have achieved victory in the battlefield, civilians and military. I should mention here to thank all segments of the Libyan society who stood behind those revolutionaries, media, businessmen, and clerics. Tribe leaders, even sports clubs, and we cannot forget, women who had an effective role in aiding this revolution to success. The prisoners of Abu Salem and the Abu Salem massacre was the spark of this revolution which formed a seed and was one of the foundations.

I should not miss to thank the businessmen who have carried out their duties with their capital and sacrificed money and brought in convoys to aid these people here. We as a Muslim nation have taken the Islamic law as the main source of legislation, and therefore any law that contradicts Islamic principles will be suspended legally. I give you an example of these laws. Like the marriage and divorce law, which had put the limit on the number of wives, this law contradicts and is suspended. There is an honest intention, to legalize all economic and financial laws of this country, we are seeking to form Islamic banks without interest.

Gods willing at a later time Mr. Altrhunia will explain a number of decisions from bank interest from any social loan and housing loan within the range of 10k dinars, and maybe in the future we will abolish all interest based on Islamic law. This interest principle is a negative aspect in our economy and it creates hostility among people.

We have also announced a promotion of martyrs to a higher rank, whether civilian or military who have participated in the fighting. There will be exceptional promotion to all military personnel, and personal of the national security who took part in the fighting. There are two issues, the first one, I invite everyone since this revolution has been protected by almighty god and blessed and therefore we have to go on the right path.

Our money, our blood, our honor, cannot be touched. Tolerance, forgiveness, reconciliation are necessary for the success of the revolution and the future of Libya. There are lands that have been taken away, and buildings that have been taken by force, confiscated. I invite all Libyan’s to go to the courts and not to take law into their own hands. You only have to be honest, and be patient and tolerant. We are seeking to achieve strong national security that is regulated under the law, and the national army that protects the boarders and the country. I am confident and I trust the Libyan's that they will draw the plan of the future by themselves, and gods help will be bright, my fellow Libyan’s. You only have to fear god, reject divisions, unify yourselves, we are one nation, we have become brothers. Something we have not had for a long time.

At the end I would like to pay my condolences to the Turkish people for the victims of the earthquake that has taken place in their country. I would like to also console the death of the Crown Prince of Saudi. And I pray for the Yemen and Syrian people to achieve victory. We pray they achieve victory and dignity.

[ellisonz]

49. It's their country.

:toast:

[Ikonoklast]

51. NOW it is, not some military dictator's personal famile business.

It is now up the Libyan People to determine what shape their nation will take.

And they can do with it what they will, it is not for anyone else to say.

[tabatha]

50. Video of Day of Liberation

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8e3ndnHPPU&feature=youtu.be

Well done Libyans - you paid for it with your tears and blood.

Letter posted on AJE

A letter from this morning's paper

My late husband was a geophysicist in international oil exploration. We spent three years in Libya from 1963 until 1966, when we were transferred to Australia, and returned to Libya in September 1968 until we were transferred to London in 1969 to join our baby son who had been flown there to the Great Ormond Street Hospital for Sick Children shortly after birth. Therefore, we missed Gadhafi's coup, but heard all the stories from other oil-patch expats who got out later.

The claim by a political analyst on CBC that the 1969 coup was bloodless didn't match stories of many Italian and Jewish residents/citizens who were killed in violent ways by Gadhafi's mobs.Under King Idris el Senussi's benign rule, Libya was a wonderful country for foreigners.It was tolerant and peaceful, and I shopped alone in the Tripoli souks with no fear or concerns. The Libyan people were welcoming and kind, the Arab merchants taught me Arabic and laughed with me over my errors, the Italian merchants taught me Italian with similar results.I marvelled at the Roman ruins at Sabratha and Leptis Magna, got stuck in my car amid camel trains ambling along the streets, survived the ghiblis (sandstorms) and thoroughly enjoyed every minute of my time there.

Libyan friends were proud that the oil money was being spent on schools, hospitals, housing and health, and particularly proud that girls were going to school as well as boys.I was delighted to see the two Senussi princes on TV last evening, and I hope that the new Libyan government and they can unite the country and bring it back to the dignity and pride that once was so evident.

Joanne ChiperaParksville

[tabatha]

52. A vision of a democratic Libya

http://www.ntclibya.com/InnerPage.aspx?SSID=4&ParentID=3&LangID=1

The interim national council hereby presents its vision for rebuilding the democratic state of Libya. This vision responds to the needs and aspirations of our people, while incorporating the historical changes brought about by the 17 February revolution.

We have learnt from the struggles of our past during the dark days of dictatorship that there is no alternative to building a free and democratic society and ensuring the supremacy of international humanitarian law and human rights declarations. This can only be achieved through dialogue, tolerance, co-operation, national cohesiveness and the active participation of all citizens. As we are familiar with being ruled by the authoritarian dictatorship of one man, the political authority that we seek must represent the free will of the people, without exclusion or suppression of any voice.

The lessons of our past will outline our social contract through the need to respect the interests of all groups and classes that comprise the fabric of our society and not compromise the interests of one at the expense of the other. It is this social contract that must lead us to a civil society that recognises intellectual and political pluralism and allows for the peaceful transfer of power through legal institutions and ballot boxes; in accordance with a national constitution crafted by the people and endorsed in a referendum.

To that end, we will outline our aspirations for a modern, free and united state, following the defeat of the illegal Gaddafi regime. The interim national council will be guided by the following in our continuing march to freedom, through espousing the principles of political democracy. We recognise without reservation our obligation to:

1. Draft a national constitution that clearly defines its nature, essence and purpose and establishes legal, political, civil, legislative, executive and judicial institutions. The constitution will also clarify the rights and obligations of citizens in a transparent manner, thus separating and balancing the three branches of legislative, executive and judicial powers.

.........

[ellisonz]

53. Statement by President Barack Obama on the Declaration of Liberation in Libya

28 min 32 sec ago - Libya

Statement by President Barack Obama on the Declaration of Liberation in Libya:

On behalf of the American people, I congratulate the people of Libya on today’s historic declaration of liberation. After four decades of brutal dictatorship and eight months of deadly conflict, the Libyan people can now celebrate their freedom and the beginning of a new era of promise.

Now that the fighting in Libya has reached an end, the Transitional National Council (TNC) must turn its attention to the political transition ahead. We look forward to working with the TNC and an empowered transitional government as they prepare for the country’s first free and fair elections. The Libyan authorities should also continue living up to their commitments to respect human rights, begin a national reconciliation process, secure weapons and dangerous materials, and bring together armed groups under a unified civilian leadership. As they take these steps, the United States will continue our close cooperation with our international partners and the UN Support Mission in Libya to help advance a stable, democratic transition.

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/liveblog/libya

[tabatha]

54. Tweet

jirdan_tripoli shafshoofa_rat
People Polygamy is incredibly rare in Libya and it's socially discouraged in our society. Abdeljalil said it because there are many widows.
2 hours ago

[tabatha]

55. Benghazi's moment of joy as Libya's tyranny ends

National Transitional Council announces liberation to elated crowds in city where uprising began

For sales manager Abdel-Khaleq, Fatin, his unemployed graduate wife, with their shy little children Muhammad and Jana in tow, the aspiration is jobs, and better education, healthcare and social insurance. And that Libya's oil wealth will be spent on its 6.5 million people, not squandered on Gaddafi's African adventures. "We want our children's lives to be easier and freer than ours," Fatin said.

Worries lie ahead for post-Gaddafi Libya, but liberation day was a day to enjoy – and to treasure. "In Muammar's time, we always had to go to events like this, to celebrate the 1969 revolution and so on," said Wanis Agouri, a factory worker waiting in a sidestreet in a battered Fiat for his children to weave their way through the crowds after the rally.

"It was compulsory. They used to give you the day off work, and docked your pay for a month if you didn't go. So there was no choice.

"But today people want to be here, it's from the heart. That's the difference. It's a new world."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/23/benghazi-joy-end-libya-tyranny

[tabatha]

56. Libya officially declares liberation.

http://youtu.be/gpZILNMK3eE

Jalil was close to crying.

[tabatha]

57. Interview with Charles Bouchard

http://www.ctv.ca/qp/#TopVideoAn

Click on video in top right box.

And click on the Baird interview, too.

[pinboy3niner]

58. CURRENT TIME IN LIBYA = 12:30 AM MONDAY, OCTOBER 24

Libya time = EDT +6 hours, PDT +9 hours, UTC +1 hour, GMT +2 hours

[pinboy3niner]

59. "Various reports surfacing that Saif has been captured and is being kept in a secret location"

@ShababLibya

Various reports surfacing that Saif has been captured and is being kept in a secret location. Pictures to be posted tomorrow #Libya

10:32PM GMT Oct 23, 2011

[pinboy3niner]

60. Purported Gadhafi killer on-camera (CNN video - 1:12)

Added On October 23, 2011

New video shows the man who purportedly shot Moammar Gadhafi receiving praise. CNN's Dan Rivers reports.

http://cnn.com/video/?/video/bestoftv/2011/10/23/rivers

[tabatha]

61. Libya’s revolutionary moment has arrived

We called Libya a civil war and intervened to help one side win, as we did in Kosovo. But Libya was not a civil war. The dictator didn't have deep enough support to turn it into one. It was a revolution, a people against a regime, rising up without any instigation from us, with nothing but rage, humiliation and hope to guide them. We gave them air cover and they made a revolution.

Let us not be romantic about revolutions, but let us also remember the hope they carry. The revolutionary moment – the discovery that “we the people” brought the dictator down – gives the Libyans a chance to come together and build something out of the ruins.

The people have discovered themselves. They have discovered their sovereignty and they will not willingly surrender it to gunmen or extremist Islamists, in Libya or in Tunisia or Egypt. In Syria, in Yemen, in Algeria too, the people will see what the sovereignty of the street looks like and long for it, too.

All revolutionary situations are poised between exhilaration and terror, and Libya is no exception. There are too many guns in the street, too many militias, too little authority and order.

Revenge will be taken. Scores will be settled. Theft and vandalism will be legitimized as justice. Revolution could topple into civil war unless an army and a monopoly over the means of force are re-established. But those crowds, men and women all waving the same flag, the kids with their hands on their hearts, singing the anthem perched on their parents' shoulders, are actually stronger than the men with guns, if they only could find the politics to express their power.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/libyas-revolutionary-moment-has-arrived/article2210105/

There have been a number of good articles from Globe and Mail.

[NuttyFluffers]

62. thanks for the diligent effort to keep DU up to date on this!

:) :hi:

[ellisonz]

63. Mosque and State: Islamist parties are a legitimate political force, whether we like it or not

McManus: Mosque and state
Islamist parties are a legitimate political force, whether we like it or not.

By Doyle McManus

October 23, 2011

At a conference two years ago, I sat in on a meeting between U.S. officials and young Islamist politicians from Tunisia, Jordan and other countries in the Middle East. The Islamists wanted to know: Would the Americans allow them to run in free elections, even if it meant they might come to power? The Americans turned the question back at them: Would the Islamists, if they won, allow free and democratic elections, even if it might mean losing power?

At the time, it was mostly a theoretical discussion — but now those questions have become very real.

In Tunisia, Islamists are expected to win the largest share of parliamentary seats in the first post-uprising election. In Egypt, the Muslim Brotherhood is the most powerful political faction, and it has spawned Islamist offshoots to the left and right. And in Libya, Islamists played a major role in the revolution that toppled Moammar Kadafi and are likely to be major players in any new government.

At that conference, I sat next to the grand old man of Egypt's secular democrats, Saad Eddin Ibrahim, a veteran of Cairo politics — and of Hosni Mubarak's prisons. He favored a clear division between mosque and state, but he had no illusions.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-mcmanus-column-islamists-20111023,0,2561680.column

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tabatha]

65. Hey Josh

What about the links at the top of the page - something I have relied on many times.

[pinboy3niner]

66. Libyans struggle to bury Gaddafi and start afresh

Mon Oct 24, 2011 12:01am GMT

• Gaddafi killed on Thursday, still unburied

• No agreement yet on where, when to bury body

• Questions remain over how he met his death


By Tim Gaynor and Rania El Gamal


MISRATA, Libya, Oct 24 (Reuters) - Even as a corpse, Muammar Gaddafi is casting a shadow over Libya.

The country's new rulers declared the birth of a new Libya as hundreds of people trooped past Gaddafi's decaying body in Misrata for a third day, a final humiliation that deepened international disquiet about Libya's future and angered family members.

...


The first film of Gaddafi very shortly after he emerged from the drain clearly shows he already had the wound close to his left ear and that he was bleeding profusely. Shibani said Gaddafi also had the wound to his abdomen, but that is unclear.

...


Later the convoy slows to a halt. Fighters rush to an ambulance shouting that Gaddafi is dead. In the back of the vehicle a body lies with a bandage over a wound on its abdomen.

The head is covered with a white sheet, but a man beside it raises it briefly affording a glimpse of the former ruler's face. A young man appears beside the ambulance and a bearded man beside him shouts out:

"He's the killer. And I am the witness who saw him ... This is the man who killed Gaddafi. Using this," the man with the beard shouts, holding up the young man's hand in which he has a gun. "He did it in front of me. I saw it in front of me."

...


http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7LN19T20111024?sp=true

[ellisonz]

67. Gaddafi's Will

"This is my will. I, Muammar bin Mohammad bin Abdussalam bi Humayd bin Abu Manyar bin Humayd bin Nayil al Fuhsi Gaddafi, do swear that there is no other God but Allah and that Mohammad is God's Prophet, peace be upon him.

I pledge that I will die as Muslim. Should I be killed, I would like to be buried, according to Muslim rituals, in the clothes I was wearing at the time of my death and my body unwashed, in the cemetery of Sirte, next to my family and relatives.

I would like that my family, especially women and children, be treated well after my death. The Libyan people should protect its identity, achievements, history and the honourable image of its ancestors and heroes.

The Libyan people should not relinquish the sacrifices of the free and best people. I call on my supporters to continue the resistance, and fight any foreign aggressor against Libya, today, tomorrow and always.

Let the free people of the world know that we could have bargained over and sold out our cause in return for a personal secure and stable life. We received many offers to this effect but we chose to be at the vanguard of the confrontation as a badge of duty and honour.

Even if we do not win immediately, we will give a lesson to future generations that choosing to protect the nation is an honour and selling it out is the greatest betrayal that history will remember forever despite the attempts of the others to tell you otherwise."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/23/gaddafi-will-sirte-burial-libya-liberation

And to Saadi - I give my wardrobe, and to Mutassim - my lions and tigers, and to Saif - my golden gun, the rest I care for not so much...:sarcasm:

[tabatha]

69. "I would like that my family, especially women and children, be treated well after my death"

Pity that was not done to other Libyans before his death.

[ellisonz]

70. Is it common in the wills of Muslims to need to declare repeatedly that one is a Muslim?

I think Muammar must have had doubts.

[pinboy3niner]

68. Sirte: "Gadhafi's men executed the prisoners before leaving"

From an AFP report on the devastation in Sirte:

An overpowering odour rises from Al-Mahari hospital, close to Sirte's city centre, where more than 60 corpses are rotting on the lawn.

Many of the victims have been killed execution-style, a bullet to the head. Some have been bound hand and foot.

"The hospital was used as a prison by Gadhafi's men. We found it the day Gadhafi died. Our men were held prisoner here," said Sharif Ahmad Sharif, an NTC fighter.

"Gadhafi's men executed the prisoners before leaving," he said. Other fighters agreed, adding that the city is littered with corpses.

"We have evacuated so many. I cannot keep count. Hundreds, thousands . . . ," said Sadduk al-Banani, who works for the Libyan non-governmental organization Tabiya.

http://www.canada.com/news/Bodies+devastation+Gadhafi+last+stand+hometown/5594356/story.html

[tabatha]

71. DiManno: NATO had a good plan and Canadian commander stuck to it

Himself trained to fly tactical helicopters, Bouchard assumed military leadership of a coalition in which only eight of NATO’s 28 members — including Canadian fighter pilots — abetted by some Arab states, did all the heavy lifting from two bases in Sicily.

What they left behind, Bouchard emphasizes, is a country with its infrastructure still largely intact (because the missile strikes were precision-guided) and with remarkably few civilians killed, at least by NATO.

“Libya’s in a good position. The infrastructure is all there — gas, oil, electricity, water. The hospitals are open. The ports are open. The airfields are operational. It’s an urbanized country. They still have a civil service. All the ingredients for a future are in place. The challenge will be political because a new nation is being born. But they won’t be the first to do so with regional differences. Our own country is like that.”

Those sortie strikes — 9,646 since March 31 — were launched using fewer aircraft than were available during the Kosovo campaign. They relied on surprise attacks, adept intelligence gathering and relentless pursuit, never allowing regime commanders time to recalibrate.

http://www.thestar.com/news/article/1074701

[tabatha]

72. Avoiding death of civilians a main objective in Libya: Canadian General

(Another Bouchard article - but he was an important part of success)

Perhaps the best, albeit indirect, evidence that civilian casualties were minimal is that the daily bombing never alienated the Libyan people, even in the capital, Tripoli.

In one of his first interviews since the death Thursday of former Libyan ruler Colonel Moammar Gadhafi, Gen. Bouchard was both reflective and cautious in his assessment.

“We are not there to kill civilians, we were there to protect civilians,” said Gen. Bouchard, who personally signed off on every strike target during the seven-month war, and who instilled that mantra as part of the day-to-day targeting effort and the rules of engagement for warplane pilots.

“We were absolutely rigorous in all of our targeting,” he said. “It’s painful, but you go through it or you lose the support of the population.”

Worries over that single errant air strike or badly targeted salvo of bombs also gave Gen. Bouchard what he admits was the worst moment of his war. That came in mid-September when Gadhafi spokesman Moussa Ibrahim graphically detailed a slaughter: More than 300 civilians, many of women and children, torn apart – he said – by air strikes from NATO warplanes in embattled Sirte.

“He went in front of the cameras with pictures of women and children behind him,” Gen. Bouchard said. “It got to me. I went for a walk.”

After Mr. Ibrahim’s comments, he ordered an immediate, round-the-clock comprehensive review of the Sirte strikes. It took 24 hours, but the results were clear. The images were gruesome, but the accusations were baseless. NATO hadn’t caused the deaths.

“They were just trying to milk the media,” Gen. Bouchard said.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/canadian-general-charles-bouchards-first-priority-was-to-avoid-killing-civilians/article2210901/

[tabatha]

73. People are back in #Sirte and have started cleaning up.

People are back in #Sirte and have started cleaning up. #Libya #Feb17 #FreeSirte http://pic.twitter.com/b

[pinboy3niner]

74. Libya: Apparent Execution of 53 Gaddafi Supporters

Source: Human Rights Watch

Bodies Found at Sirte Hotel Used by Anti-Gaddafi Fighters

October 24, 2011


(Sirte) – Fifty-three people, apparent Gaddafi supporters, seem to have been executed at a hotel in Sirte last week, Human Rights Watch said today. The hotel is in an area of the city that was under the control of anti-Gaddafi fighters from Misrata before the killings took place.

Human Rights Watch called on Libya’s National Transitional Council (NTC) to conduct an immediate and transparent investigation into the apparent mass execution and to bring those responsible to justice.

“We found 53 decomposing bodies, apparently Gaddafi supporters, at an abandoned hotel in Sirte, and some had their hands bound behind their backs when they were shot,” said Peter Bouckaert, emergencies director at Human Rights Watch, who investigated the killings. “This requires the immediate attention of the Libyan authorities to investigate what happened and hold accountable those responsible.”

Human Rights Watch saw the badly decomposed remains of the 53 people on October 23, 2011, at the Hotel Mahari in District 2 of Sirte. The bodies were clustered together, apparently where they had been killed, on the grass in the sea-view garden of the hotel.

...


http://www.hrw.org/news/2011/10/24/libya-apparent-execution-53-gaddafi-supporters

[Tx4obama]

75. Here's an additional link from CNN

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/10/24/world/africa/libya-main/index.html?eref=edition

[ellisonz]

80. The evidence in inconclusive:

"In addition, medical officials in Sirte told the group that pro-Gadhafi forces had carried out killings in the city and that they had found 23 bound bodies between October 15 and 20."

To me this sounds like a collection point and not evidence of a massacre...that there is graffiti from at least 5 different brigades in the hotel really suggests a fluid situation with forces moving in and out of the hotel. I do not believe it likely that they would have allowed bodies to rot in the streets although they may not have had time to bury them. It's not like to my knowledge there is a Libyan rebel graves registration unit.

Peter Bouckaert seems to have made up his mind about what happened without the benefit of a forensic analysis that would demonstrate the validity of his judgment that these people were killed by the rebels and not by Gaddafi mercenaries and thugs who throughout the war have killed their own supporters once they refused to fight against the revolution. That there is a mix of wounded and bound suggests that perhaps these are people who were liquidated by Gaddafi's forces from the hospital that were dumped and then moved by the rebels to a collection point before the front-line further proceeded. Why would they want to leave prisoners for the rebels to interrogate?

Libya is going to need a Truth and Reconciliation Commission.

[pinboy3niner]

76. Secret footage that shows the truth about torture in Gaddafi's Libya

Source: Daily Mail

Beatings ordered by Foreign Minister Musa Kusa (who Britain set free)

• Musa Kusa found in Qatar

• New hope for Lockerbie victims’ families

• Kusa alleged to have taken part in torture personally




Brutal: A still from footage of a prisoner being whipped inside the
Abu Salim prison during Gaddafi's rule


By Gareth Finighan

Last updated at 8:35 AM on 24th October 2011


The full brutality of former Libyan tyrant Muammar Gaddafi's regime has been revealed in chilling video footage of prison torture sessions.

And the fallen dictatorship's former foreign minister, Musa Kusa - who was released by the British authorities six months ago after he defected to the UK in March - is facing fresh allegations that he was directly involved in the beating of political prisoners.

The footage - obtained by the BBC's Panorama programme - was reportedly shot at the notorious Abu Salim prison in Tripoli. It shows crouching inmates, blindfolded and wearing blue uniforms, being repeatedly whipped and kicked by interrogators.

The Panorama team tracked down Kusa to a luxury resort in Qatar during its investigation into his role in alleged war crimes. He declined to be interviewed for the programme.

Kusa was head of Gaddafi's intelligence agency from 1994 and a senior intelligence agent when PanAm flight 103 was blown up over Lockerbie.

...


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2052579/Gaddafi-dead-Video-beatings-ordered-Libyas-Foreign-Minister-Musa-Kusa.html?ITO=1490

[pinboy3niner]

77. I regret Gaddafi death says Libya's new leader-Tyrant 'should have answered for his crimes in court'

Source: Daily Mail

• Prime minister says he wishes Gaddafi was alive to answer for his regime

• Islamic Sharia law will be the 'basic source' of legislation in the new Libya

• 'Embrace honesty, patience and mercy,' NTC head tells Libyans


By Sam Greenhill

Last updated at 8:29 AM on 24th October 2011


As Libya announced its official liberation from Colonel Gaddafi’s 42-year rule yesterday, the nation’s new leader said he wished the hated despot was still alive.

Prime minister Mahmoud Jibril said he would have preferred to see Gaddafi put on trial for his crimes.

‘I want to know why he did this to the Libyan people,’ Mr Jibril explained.

‘I wish I were his prosecutor in his trial, because this is the question in everybody’s mind: Why?

‘Did the Libyan people deserve what he did throughout 42 years of oppression, of killing, of everything?’

...


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2052398/Gaddafi-dead-Libyas-new-leader-Mahmoud-Jibril-regrets-tyrants-death.html

[pinboy3niner]

78. The Rights of a Deposed Despot: Libyans Don't Really Give a Hoot

Source: TIME Magazine

By Vivienne Walt / Benghazi Monday, Oct. 24, 2011

...


In numerous interviews over the weekend in Tripoli and the eastern city of Benghazi, not a single Libyan — including top officials of the new regime — expressed serious concern that Gaddafi might have been executed after being captured alive. Instead, the general feeling might best be summed up by Colonel Omar Hariri, a war hero, who had been a comrade-in-arms of Gaddafi during their coup in 1969, and who headed this year's rebel military forces in eastern Libya. As Hariri greeted fighters returning to Benghazi from the front in Gaddafi's birthplace of Sirt on Saturday, TIME asked him if he was concerned about how Gaddafi had died. "I don't care, so long as he's dead," he said. In a separate interview on Sunday, the interim Finance and Oil Minister Ali Tarhouni — who told TIME he has been asked to be the new interim Prime Minister — said he felt "relieved" that Gaddafi had been killed.


The great majority of Libyans are rejoicing his death too. Libyans have emerged from a very long nightmare, in which two generations lived in terror under Gaddafi's dictatorship. The details of how he met his end seem irrelevant to most of them. ....

...


Gaddafi and his son Saif al-Islam were indicted earlier this year by the International Criminal Court (ICC) in the Hague for crimes against humanity, for having allegedly ordered their forces to kill unarmed demonstrators in eastern Libya in February, before the rebels took up arms. For months, rebel leaders assured Western governments that they intended to put the Gaddafis on trial, but had stressed that they would prefer to try him in a Libyan court, rather than transfer him to the ICC.


http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2097592,00.html?xid=rss-topstories

[pinboy3niner]

79. Tunisia counts votes after first Arab Spring election

Mon Oct 24, 2011 7:39am GMT

• Islamists expected to win but coalitions likely

• Secularists heckle Islamist leader at polling station

• Election official says turnout was more than 90 percent

• U.S. President Obama praises election


By Tarek Amara and Christian Lowe


TUNIS, Oct 24 (Reuters) - Moderate Islamists said on Monday their party appeared to be ahead in Tunisia's first free election since an uprising earlier this year that set off the Arab Spring and reshaped the region's political landscape.

Most forecasts point to the Ennahda party emerging with the biggest share of the vote, an outcome that worries secularists and could be replicated in other Arab states when they hold their own post-Arab Spring elections.

Tunisian radio read out voting figures it obtained from some districts in Beja that showed Ennahda in the lead, with the centre-left Congress for the Republic Party also doing well.

...


Turnout in the vote, for an assembly which will sit for one year and draft a new constitution, was more than 90 percent -- a mark of Tunisians' determination to exercise their new democratic rights after decades of repression.

...


http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7LO0D720111024?sp=true

[pinboy3niner]

81. Yemen president Saleh 'likely to fight, not quit'

By Wissam Keyrouz | AFP – 7 mins ago


Defiant Yemeni President Ali Abdullah Saleh is likely to ignore a non-binding UN Security Council resolution asking him to quit, feeding fears of an all-out civil war, analysts say.

The resolution, unanimously agreed by the council's 15 members on Friday, strongly condemned deadly government attacks on demonstrators and backed a Gulf-brokered plan under which Saleh would end his 33 years in power.

Saleh has repeatedly stalled the Gulf initiative, aimed at ending months of protests, under which he will step down 30 days after it is signed in exchange for immunity from prosecution.

"I do not think the president will sign the Gulf plan" as a result of the UN Security Council Resolution 2014, said head of the Yemeni Centre for Future Studies, Fares Saqaf.

"Most likely he will opt for a scorched earth policy," he said.

...


http://news.yahoo.com/yemen-president-saleh-likely-fight-not-quit-102532386.html

[pinboy3niner]

82. US ambassador 'temporarily' leaves Syria

By BASSEM MROUE - Associated Press | AP – 2 mins 32 secs ago


BEIRUT (AP) — The American Embassy in Syria says U.S. Ambassador Robert Ford has been "temporarily" called back to Washington.

But Haynes Mahoney, the Deputy Chief of Mission at the U.S. Embassy, would not say whether the move was connected to security concerns linked to the country's uprising.

Mahoney emphasized Monday that Washington had not formally recalled Ford.
...

http://news.yahoo.com/us-ambassador-temporarily-leaves-syria-103030624.html

[pinboy3niner]

85. U.S. Ambassador to Syria withdrawn because of 'credible threats against his personal safety'

Paul Owen posts on The Guardian's Live Blog:

The US state department is now saying America has withdrawn Robert Ford, its ambassador to Syria, because of "credible threats against his personal safety".

Spokesman Mark Toner could not say when Ford would return, saying it depended on a US "assessment of Syrian regime-led incitement and the security situation on the ground".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/middle-east-live/2011/oct/24/libya-tunisia-and-the-middle-east-live#block-8

[pinboy3niner]

83. Gadhafi's Heirs: Dead Dictator's Son (Saif) Speaks Out

Source: ABC News

By JEFFREY KOFMAN (@JeffreyKofman) and KEVIN DOLAK
Oct. 24, 2011


Just one of Moammar Gadhafi's eight children is still unaccounted for following the Libyan dictator's death last week, and although he is currently wanted by the International Criminal Court, Libya's former heir apparent is still trying to reclaim his father's glory.

Saif Al-Islam Gadhafi, the London-educated son who was to succeed his father and carry on the dynasty is possibly still at large. Libya's interim government had said he was captured this weekend, but at the very same time the 39-year-old appeared on Syrian television.

"We continue our resistance. I'm in Libya, alive, free and intend to go to the very end and exact revenge," Saif Al-Islam Gadhafi was heard saying on Syrian TV. "I say go to hell, you rats and NATO behind you. This is our country, we live in it, and we die in it and we are continuing the struggle."

The short message was broadcast on Syrian TV station Al-Rai on Sunday and was soon uploaded by several users onto YouTube. It's not clear if the audio-only message was broadcast live or was a recording. The Al-Rai station broadcasts into Libya, and in the past has broadcast messages from Moammar Gadhafi.

...


http://abcnews.go.com/International/gadhafis-heirs-dead-dictators-son-speaks/story?id=14800336

[pinboy3niner]

84. Gaddafi still on show, rotting as wrangling goes on

Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:52am GMT

By Rania El Gamal


MISRATA, Libya Oct 24 (Reuters) - Libyans filed past Muammar Gaddafi's decomposing body for a fourth day on Monday, keen to see for themselves that the fallen strongman was dead, while talks dragged on among emerging local factions over disposing of the corpse.

...


The NTC wants the bodies buried in a secret location to prevent the grave becoming a shrine for Gaddafi loyalists. But authorities in Misrata, a city whose siege by Gaddafi's forces made it a symbol of the revolt, do not want the body interred under their soil.

Gaddafi's tribe centred around the city of Sirte where he made his last stand has asked for the body so they can bury it there. Gaddafi requested to be buried in Sirte in his will.

One NTC official said authorities were negotiating with Gaddafi's tribe for them to acknowledge the bodies and for them then to be taken away to buried elsewhere in secret.


http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7LO14F20111024?sp=true

[pinboy3niner]

88. Update on burial negotiations from NTC oficial in Misrata:

"There are different views," said an NTC official in Misrata. "Some people want them buried in the invaders' cemetery in Misrata," he said, referring to a place outside the city near the sea where hundreds of fallen Gaddafi fighters have been buried with some dignity and respect.

"Some people want to hand them over to his tribe, but we have some demands. Many people have been kidnapped and killed by people in Sirte since the 1980s. We asked them to give those bodies back. Since then they have been quiet," said the official who asked not to be named.

http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7LO1KS20111024?sp=true

[ellisonz]

105. Also: Libyan Iman's Declare Gaddafi Not a Muslim.

NTC head Mustafa Abdel Jalil said the council had formed a committee to decide the fate of Gaddafi's corpse and would follow guidance from Libya's religious authorities.

The official Egyptian news agency said Libya's office for fatwas, or religious decrees, had declared Gaddafi was not a Muslim as he had denied the teachings of Prophet Mohammad and so should not be given an Islamic funeral.

[pinboy3niner]

86. Libya national council head sees new govt in 2 wks

NTC leader Mustafa Abdel Jalil says a decision is expected in about 2 weeks, according to Reuters.

http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFWEA903120111024

[pinboy3niner]

87. Libya leader orders investigation of Gadhafi death

By KIM GAMEL - Associated Press | AP – 7 mins ago


TRIPOLI, Libya (AP) — Libya's transitional leader has ordered an investigation into the death of Moammar Gadhafi after the U.S. and other international powers pressed for the probe.

Mustafa Abdul-Jalil told a news conference in the eastern city of Benghazi that the National Transitional Council formed a committee to investigate the killing on Thursday, amid conflicting reports of how the dictator who ruled Libya for four decades died.

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.

...

http://news.yahoo.com/libya-leader-orders-investigation-gadhafi-death-115526378.html

[pinboy3niner]

89. Hackers using Gaddafi news to send malware

Source: CBR Security

Email claims to be from 'AFP Photo News', offers 'bloody photos' of Gaddafi's death

Published 24 October 2011

Spammers and cybercriminals are using the death of Libyan dictator Muammar Gaddafi, and the Agence France-Presse (AFP) photos bait to trick Internet users into downloading malware

Computer security firm Sophos has warned that cybercriminals are spreading an email that looks like a forwarded message. The mails sometimes have "AFP Photo News" pictures of a bloodied Gaddafi.

"In reality, opening the attached file on a Windows computer puts PCs at risk of malware infection," Sophos said.

...


Sophos has said that Windows computer users who decompress the attached file are putting their PCs at risk of infection. The RAR archive file creates a malicious file called: "Bloody Photos_Gadhafi_Death\Gadhafi?rar.scr" warned Sophos.

http://security.cbronline.com/news/hackers-using-gaddafi-news-to-send-malware-241011

[pinboy3niner]

90. U.S. Aid Worker Took Up Arms With Libya's Rebels

Source: NPR

October 24, 2011

The ragtag militias that overran Moammar Gadhafi's hometown in Libya included at least one American: 29-year-old Kevin Dawes of San Diego. Dawes says he first went to Libya as a medical aid worker in June, but at the end of the summer, he decided to take up arms after pro-Gadhafi forces started targeting medical staff.

Listen to the Story (3:34):
http://www.npr.org/2011/10/24/141646227/u-s-aid-worker-took-up-arms-with-libyas-rebels

[ellisonz]

106. Gaddafi forces targeted medical workers and hospitals throughout the entire conflict...

...they showed zero respect for international law.

NTC Medical workers treated Gaddafi soldiers anyway.

[pinboy3niner]

91. Gazans sign up for jobs in post-Gaddafi Libya

Mon Oct 24, 2011 12:20pm GMT


GAZA Oct 24 (Reuters) - Some 5,000 unemployed Palestinians have registered over the past week at a Gaza trade union office for jobs they hope will materialise in post-Gaddafi Libya, local labour officials said on Monday.

U.N. figures put unemployment in the Gaza Strip, a sliver of territory run by the Islamist group Hamas and blockaded by Israel, at 45 percent.

"They told us there is a registration for job opportunities in Libya so I came to register like other people," said Ashraf Abu Halloub, 25, a farmer, at the office of the Palestinian General Federation of Trade Unions.

Hundreds of Palestinians who worked in Libya returned to the Palestinian territories after the uprising against Muammar Gaddafi's 42 years of one-man rule erupted in February.

...


http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7LO1P620111024

[pinboy3niner]

92. Clinton demands Libya returns Lockerbie bomber to jail and throws away the key

By Daily Mail Reporters

Last updated at 1:30 PM on 24th October 2011


U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has demanded that Libya's new leaders to make sure the only person convicted for the 1988 Lockerbie bombing is sent back to prison for the rest of his life.

Abdelbaset Ali Mohmet al-Megrahi, 59, was jailed for his role in the bombing of Pan Am Flight 103 on December 21 over the Scottish town, which killed all 259 on board the plane and 11 on the ground.

Megrahi was jailed in 2001 but subsequently released in 2009 by Scotland on compassionate grounds, as doctors had diagnosed him with terminal prostate cancer and had given him only three months to live.

...


Mrs Clinton said: 'We want to see him returned to prison, preferably in Scotland, where he was serving the sentence.

'But if not, elsewhere, because we thought it was a miscarriage of justice that he was released from the sentence that had been imposed for the ghastly bombing of Pan Am 103.'

...


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2052838/Clinton-demands-new-Libyan-government-returns-Lockerbie-bomber-jail-throws-away-key.html

[pinboy3niner]

93. NTC leader Jalil assures international community: 'We are moderate Muslims'

From AJE Live Blog:

At (a) press conference, NTC leader Mustafa Abdel Jalil has also sought to dispel concerns that Libya will be adopting a hardline interpretation of Islamic law.

"I would like to assure the international community that we as Libyans are Muslims but moderate Muslims," Abdel Jalil said.

On Sunday, Abdel Jalil had declared that Islamic law would be the primary source of all future legislation in Libya.

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/liveblog/libya-oct-24-2011-1600

[pinboy3niner]

94. Syrian security forces kill 4 in central province

By BASSEM MROUE - Associated Press | AP – 17 mins ago


BEIRUT (AP) — Syrian security forces killed four people in the restive central city of Homs on Monday, while government troops clashed with gunmen believed to be defectors from the military, activists said.

The U.S., meanwhile, pulled its ambassador out of Syria, saying threats against him make it no longer safe for him to remain. Ford has been the target of several incidents of intimidation by pro-government thugs, and enraged Syrian authorities with his forceful defense of peaceful protests and harsh critique of a government crackdown that the U.N. says has killed more than 3,000.

The opposition movement driving Syria's 7-month-old uprising has mostly focused on peaceful demonstrations, although recently there have been reports of protesters taking up arms to defend themselves against military attacks. There have also been increasing reports of defections from the military, highlighting a trend that has raised fears that Syria may be sliding toward civil war.

...


http://news.yahoo.com/syrian-security-forces-kill-4-central-province-133432024.html

[CJvR]

95. It is intresting...

...that so many on a board like this seem to long for the whole Libyan thing to deteriorate into either Talibya or Somalibya. I wonder if a Libyan ran over their dog or something like that for them to harbor such malice towards Libya.

It is also a bit amusing how closely such sentiments mirrors the bad old coldwar policy of the West - "Yes he might be an evil monster, but he is our evil monster!"

[mark7sys]

104. I've been wondering pretty much the same thing

I have never been able to grasp the logic of American foreign policy. If we support and protect our own brood of evil monsters, then that makes us like everyone else. What is the meaning, in that case, of strutting around the world, thumping our chest and promoting “The American Way”?

We talk (too much, perhaps) about “human rights” and “democracy”, but, as a practical matter, so long as a nation's leaders are non-leftists and stay out of our way, we care almost none about whatever else they might do.

How can “progressives” suppose that aiding Gadhafi victims amounts to officious interference? Isn't Gadhafi-style thuggery & thievery precisely the kinds of things which progressives despise in a government … or have I completely misunderstood?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=2159087&mesg_id=2162158


With Gadhafi comparing himself to Lincoln, I am all the more eager for “The American Way” and “The Gadhafi Way” to represent something genuinely different.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=2159087&mesg_id=2171789

[tabatha]

107. And even if they disagree, the progressive mind should

allow people who think differently to express it under "freedom of speech". But no, the existence of these threads has been pilloried by drive-by bumper sticker sloganeers. With no further information or factual references.

A person from South Africa said the following to me once, and I understand that this itself is a generalization - White people tend to judge a group by the behavior of one or a few of the group, while Black people judge a person by their behavior alone.

And although I have found it to be more of a right-wing thought pattern (such as Fox News), those on the left do it too.

I saw a tweet stating that from the death of Gaddafi it appears that the TNC govt is the same or worse than Gaddafi.

Lack of critical thinking

a) the TNC wanted him alive
b) the TNC did not shoot him, or order him to be shot
c) a kid, who probably never knew that Gaddafi was wanted alive, shot him

i.e. judging a group by the action of one

[pinboy3niner]

96. AJE reporting Gaddafi's body has been removed from public view nt

[pinboy3niner]

99. Libya ends public showing of Gaddafi's body--Reuters

Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:04pm GMT

By Rania El Gamal


MISRATA, Libya Oct 24 (Reuters) - Libya's interim rulers ended the public display of the bodies of Muammar Gaddafi, his son and army chief on Monday after four days in which thousands of Libyans came to see for themselves that the dictator was really dead.

Guards locked the gates to the compound surrounding the cold storage container where the grim parody of the lying in state typically accorded to deceased leaders had been played out.

That may signal a decision is near over how and where to bury the bodies or simply that they are seen as a health hazard. Two National Transitional Council (NTC) officials confirmed the decision to shut off the area to the public, giving no reason.

"That's enough," said one of the guards. "He's been causing us as much trouble dead as he did alive."

...


http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7LO1KS20111024

[pinboy3niner]

97. Libya religious office declared Gaddafi denied Islamic teachings, should not have Muslim funeral

Reported by Reuters in an update to an earlier story:

The official Egyptian news agency said Libya's office for fatwas, or religious decrees, had declared Gaddafi was not a Muslim as he had denied the teachings of Prophet Mohammad and so should not be given an Islamic funeral.

http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7LO1KS20111024?sp=true

[pinboy3niner]

98. NTC fighters still searching for Saif al-Islam, Gaddafi's elusive son

Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:43pm GMT

By David Stamp

LONDON Oct 21 (Reuters) - Four days after the capture and killing of Muammar Gaddafi, there is little sign of his one missing son Saif al-Islam, last thought to be hiding in a desert area near the town of Bani Walid, which is 150 km (100 miles) southeast of Tripoli.

National Transitional Council (NTC) field commander Abdel Majid Mlegta said on Sunday that fighters were deploying around a place where they believed Saif was hiding after he escaped the siege of his father's hometown of Sirte on Thursday.

Mlegta said Gaddafi's former security chief Abdullah al-Senussi, now in Niger, had contacted Saif to try to help him flee to the Sahelian country "but our brigades are encircling this area south of Bani Walid".

Saif al-Islam Gaddafi is the most enigmatic of Muammar Gaddafi's children, apparently turning within weeks from philanthropist and liberal reformer into a fighter ready to die on his home soil rather than surrender.

...


http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7LN05220111024?sp=true

[pinboy3niner]

100. "Hundreds of thousands" of Libyans attended liberation celebrations in Benghazi Sunday

Paul Owen at The Guardian's Live Blog relays a Skype report from the newspaper's correspondent in Benghazi:


I have just been speaking to Ian Black, the Guardian's Middle East correspondent, who was in Benghazi yesterday when Mustafa Abdel-Jalil announced the "liberation" of Libya. He said it was "tremendous scene".

It was a huge, huge crowd … It was certainly in the hundreds of thousands. It seemed at some points as if the entire population of the city was there … It was a tremendously excited atmosphere: jubilation, flags, families on outings. It was a mixture of a sort of huge street party and a nationalist rally, tinged also with sadness because of the human cost of the war. We don't know exactly how many people have been killed but it's probably not less than 30,000.

Ian was sceptical about reporting that stressed Abdel-Jalil's nods towards Islamic law yesterday.

(He) made a political speech which really was intended just to push the right buttons on what was a very significant national occasion. Libya after the revolution remains a conservative Muslim country. What he said about sharia law being the basis of all law is exactly what you would have expected.

...


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/middle-east-live/2011/oct/24/libya-tunisia-and-the-middle-east-live#block-18

[tabatha]

101. A Libyan Story from AJE

(since there are no copyright issues with a personal story, I am repeating it in full)

30 years ago my father fled Libya and entered exile at a time when Ghadafi was hanging opponents in the streets at home and had a policy of assassination abroad. During these past 30 years he lost even his hope of returning home - close family members died and he couldn't attend their funerals, relatives and friends became increasingly difficult to contact and his very identity as a Libyan seemed to be eroding with the passage of time and the seeming indestructability of the Ghadafi regime.

Then the Arab Spring happened. At first we dared not hope that it would reach Libya. Even with the fall of Mubarak in Egypt it seemed impossible. But then the brave souls of Libya rose up and with it started a chain of events that saw many martyrs but ultimately led to the liberation of our homeland. The past 8 months have been soul-destroying, ecstatic, tragic and wonderful all at once - evoking feelings that are simply impossible to put into words.

And so the day came that we never dreamed would come to pass. Last Thursday my father returned to Libya - a journey he had lost all hope of ever making. Unbelievably when he reached the Ras Ajdir border post he called me:

"Ghadafi has been captured!"

I couldn't process this at first - my father was about to enter his homeland after 30 years and that very morning the brutal psychopathic dictator that exiled him had been caught! My father then crossed into Libya and in Sabratah joined a throng of jubilant Freedom Fighters and joined them on their journey into Tripoli.

The next day my father entered the coffee shop in Tripoli's Old City where he had worked as a boy - upon entering he was greeted by a group of Freedom Fighters sipping coffee, guns in hand. When they learnt of my father's long exile and return home, they threw rose water on him, and headed out into the street firing their guns into the air:

"This is why we did it! This is why we freed Libya - so that our brothers can return home!"

My apologies for not contributing more to the blog over the past week since Ghadafi's demise - it has all been so overwhelming and several times I have tried to convey what I have been feeling - but nothing I wrote seemed adequate! Maybe my account of the end of my father's exile might give some kind of sense of what this revolution means to so many in Libya - it is an emotional, spiritual and psychological revolution as much as a political one.

As for me - as the son of such a long-time exile I have never been able to visit Libya until now. I have never seen my extended family, never smelt the desert air, never visited the graves of my dead grandparents. I desperately wanted to - but Ghadafi's existence meant that I never dared dream it would ever be possible. I now plan to go before the end of the year and make up for the thirty years in Libya that Ghadafi robbed from me............

Thank you all for your contribution on this blog - I know it has made a real difference to Libyans around the world. I know it kept me sane at times when I thought all hope was lost. There are too many bloggers to name individually, but I do want to mention Gerhard Heinz in particular. Back in the dark days of March, April and May it was to a large extent Gerhard who kept hope alive for me and helped me to understand that Libya was on an inexorable path towards liberation even if the mainstream media could not see it. So thank you Gerhard and the rest of the regular contributors on here for keeping me sane and helping me get through the darkness into the light of a free Libya and my father's return home!

by Salwinder
http://blogs.aljazeera.net/imperium/2011/08/22/three-questions-libya

[tabatha]

102. 20 page document of Gaddafi's crimes from 1969 - 2011

ShababLibya LibyanYouthMovement
20 page document of Gaddafi's crimes from 1969 - 2011 compiled by @MsEntropy

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B-B_2d4pgCD9YWQ5YTNhOTgtNzcyYy00NjY4LTkyZDUtYWJhNjBlZjYxZmRj&hl=en&authkey=COiSmpUN&pli=1

[pinboy3niner]

103. Libyan official says Gadhafi burial likely Tuesday

AP – 35 mins ago


MISRATA, Libya (AP) — A spokesman for the fighters holding Moammar Gadhafi's body says the slain dictator will probably be buried on Tuesday in an unmarked grave in a secret location.

Ibrahim Beit al-Mal, a spokesman for the Misrata military council, told The Associated Press Monday that he's "90 percent sure the bodies will be buried tomorrow." The report could not immediately be confirmed.

The bodies of Gadhafi, one of his sons and a former government minister were on public display for a fourth day in a commercial freezer in the port city, where Misrata residents have been lining up to see them.

Libya's leader Mustafa Abdul-Jalil said Monday the decisions on what to do with Gadhafi's body will be governed by a fatwa, or religious edict.

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.

...


http://news.yahoo.com/libyan-official-says-gadhafi-burial-likely-tuesday-170819707.html

[tabatha]

108. Misratans Claim Gaddafi's Body

MISRATA, Libya -- Ahmed al-Said, a 46-year-old computer engineer, joined the rebels in his hometown of Misrata and fought off a bloody siege by Moammar Gadhafi's forces in what became one of the turning points of Libya's civil war. His worst memory, he says, is collecting body parts of young children and women from his city's streets.

Seething with hatred for the longtime dictator over the 2-month siege, battle-hardened Misratan fighters went on to play a key role in the capture of the capital in August. They made a daring amphibious landing on the shores of Tripoli. And days later, in their signature black pickup trucks, they blasted their way into Gadhafi's fortified Bab al-Aziziya compound, tore down an iconic monument of a fist crushing an American plane and hauled it back to Misrata as a trophy.

...


Misrata suffered immensely during the siege. There was no power, no water and food was in short supply. The city's sole lifeline was its seaport, which came under frequent attack.

Gadhafi's forces indiscriminately shelled the city, killing hundreds of civilians and overwhelming the hospitals with wounded. But through grit and guile, the city's residents fought back, turning bottles, tires and trailer trucks into tools of war to defeat tanks, rockets and professional snipers.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/24/misratans-gaddafi_n_1029073.html

[ellisonz]

109. Niger Becoming Safe Haven for War Criminals

5 min 22 sec ago - Libya

Quoting an unnamed NTC official, Reuters reports that Saif al-Islam Gaddafi, Muammar Gaddafi's son, is in the desert near Libya's borders with Niger and Algeria, and he is carrying a forged Libyan passport.

"He's on the triangle of Niger and Algeria. He's south of Ghat, the Ghat area. He was given a false Libyan passport from
the area of Murzuq," the official told Reuters by telephone.

The official said Muammar Gaddafi's former intelligence chief Abdullah al-Senussi was involved in the escape plot and added: "In the south, they intercepted Thuraya communications. Abdullah Senussi has been on the border in that area to organise his exit and also a neighbouring intelligence source tipped us off about that."

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/liveblog/libya

[Iterate]

110. Libyan Revolution threads on DU - Feb 15-18: looking back

There weren't very many posts about Libya in the days before the 15th. There was some speculation about which country would be "next" in the Arab Spring. No one that I saw singled out Libya, and I'll admit I was researching Morocco, fearing for Algeria, and putting Libya on the "not yet" part of the spectrum.

We didn't know that in Benghazi a small group was about to protest the arrest of a lawyer. We didn't know that in early January Gaddafi had planned a Tienanmen strategy.

Feb. 16th (events of the 15th in Libya)

It's Libya's turn now. (Al-Jazeera will cover this one) PROTESTS AT 3am local, BBC NEEDS CONTACTS
Topic started by Soral on Feb-16-11 01:46 AM (1 replies)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=424618

Feb 17th (events of the 16th in Libya)

(At Least Two) Protesters Die in Libya Unrest
Topic started by tekisui on Feb-17-11 01:00 AM (3 replies)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=432498

Anti-Government Protests Break Out in Libya
Topic started by tekisui on Feb-16-11 06:28 PM (0 replies)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=429017

Neither Soral nor tekisui could get much attention, but in fairness to DU, there were other events to watch and people were recovering from the Egyptian Revolution.

Also, interestingly, there was this, the first bit of conspiracy construction:

MSM hypes Libyan protest
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=427117

It referred to this article in the Guardian:
Libyan protesters clash with police in Benghazi
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/16/libyan-protesters-clash-with-police

Guardian editors were so clueless or caught off guard, so to speak, that they had posted the text with a photo of a Gaddafi birthday rally from a few days before. Since accidents are impermissible in the conspiracy world, it meant deception with intent.

Lest anyone think it didn't matter, I saw the same article and photo just a few weeks cited as evidence where the claim was that the early protest were actually pro-Gaddafi rallies. Exaggeration was soon part of the rhetoric as well.

Feb 18th (events of the 17th in Libya)

GENOCIDE IN LIBYA, AND NO ONE CARES.
Topic started by Soral on Feb-18-11 02:09 AM (34 replies)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=442947

The next day, these were some of the relevant thread titles:

BREAKING: Gadaffi's regime might fall!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=451467

Libya is shutting down their Internet
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=452573

BBC: Gaddafi acts on increasing unrest (shuts off internet & electricity)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=450289

BBC reports Libyan Army siding with protesters in Benghazi
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=450166

LIBYA UPDATE: some vital information and a great picture.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=447882

Follow LibyanYouthMovement - @ShababLibya - on Twitter, for breaking news
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=448834

The match had been lit; there were ~25 threads the next day.

[tabatha]

111. Oh noes, oh noes, oh noes. How can that be?

It was all orchestrated by NATO.

Thanks for the links - great research!

[ellisonz]

112. Good work.

Now if Josh will just link to all the weekly threads in one post - for the record - we'll have a complete record. ;-)

[Turborama]

131. Jan14: Citizens storm residential units in Libya (Security forces did not intervene to prevent them)

In LBN: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=4697432

Also in LBN early morning of Feb 16: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=4734856">Riots break out in Libyan city of Benghazi

[Iterate]

151. Oooops...the search was for GD and not all relevant forums

Now I see where I went wrong. Sorry about that, I never should have missed it. Mistakes were made.

So now is the time and place to point out a couple of other prescient or portentous posts. (My god you were busy).

Jan 14:
Tunisia Unrest A Wake-up Call For The Region: "Every Arab Leader Is Watching Tunisia In Fear"
Topic started by Turborama on Jan-14-11 08:55 PM (4 replies)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=201863

and this one from Jan 7th
The Moor Next Door: More On Riots, Protests In North Africa (Why They Are Historically Important)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=132129

It got no replies, but that goes to show that replies and recs don't always equate to influence, because I think it might have been this one that convinced me I was paying attention to all the wrong things. thx for that.

oh, and this:
Instead of: "It's going to be like Iran in '79!" How about, "It could be like Indonesia after 1998"?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=290024

Looks like that argument is still in play.

[tabatha]

113. Very sad reflection on the world we live in - or ROTFLMAO

Message from "Dennis South" indicates the total disarray among Mathabists and their bloggers:
-------------------

..... I request that all pro-TRUE Libyan, pro-Jamahiriya, pro-Gaddafi blogs cease, or at least drastically cut down, further discussion about whether or not Muammar Gaddafi is alive or dead. This is merely a request.

I have no power over anyone.Even though I had made the conclusion that perhaps 50 to 70% of the information at the blogs is correct, I had come to value that information immensely. It gave insight to the struggle inside Libya.

But today, when I went to try to get some idea of what was going on, all that was talked about was whether or not The Leader was dead or alive. Now, I'm sorry if this sounds cold, but the struggle is not about Muammar Gaddafi. It's about the liberation of Libya; the liberation of Africa, and the liberation of the world.

At the moment, the blogs are looking like the headquarters of CIA psychological operations. This is because the information there is confusing. And the spread of confusion is a weapon that the northern countries use.

At one blog, there is literally one article that says that Muammar is dead. Then the very next article says that, "Aisha Gaddafi has reported that her father is alive." Then right after that, the next article says, "Gaddafi is dead."

I can only hope that this confusion is not spreading amongst the good Libyan people who are fighting for their freedom on the ground. I would simply ask that you please consider accepting the report that was posted at Mathaba, which says that Muammar Gaddafi is alive, but which also speaks to the issue of proper perspective.

That article seems to hint that Gaddafi is frustated by all of this talk, and that he wants us to stay focused and stick to the program. I again ask that the blogs get back into focus, and begin reporting whatever can be reported from the ground.

I ask that you create a link to the Mathaba report at your blog, and point your readers to that link by saying, "For the current official stance regarding the status of Muammar Gaddafi, click here," and then cease further discussion, and get back to the business of reporting on The Resistance inside Libya.

Your blogs are owned by you, not by me. I have no power over you. I am merely asking, that's all: End the discussion concerning Muammar's alleged death, and get back to work.Another thing: The CIA certainly welcomes all of this focus on ONE MAN--Gaddafi. This is great news for the CIA. The CIA wants the entire world to believe that now that Gaddafi is "dead,"

The Al-Fateh Revolution of the Libyan Jamahiriya has ended; that the struggle to liberate Libya from the rats has ended. By continuing these discussions about whether or not Gaddafi is dead or alive, you are weakening our movement, and feeding right into the schemes of the CIA.

I am fully aware that the Jamahiriya has asked that the blogs cease speaking about specific military plans or troop positions. But I further understand that the Jamahiriya deems as okay the reporting of battles thathave already occurred. So, please get back into focus, and submit reports, at your blogs, on those battles that have already occurred.

This note is written with full appreciation of the great work that the various blogs are doing. But, it is time to get back to work. If you wish to mourn, mourn later, after Libya is won back for the Jamahiriya--and for Muammar! Let's get back to work. Thank you.

[pinboy3niner]

116. Muammar "wants us to stay focused and stick to the program"

Leave Muammar alooooooone!1!!


:rofl:

[ellisonz]

117. Bahahaha...looney.

NATO Surrenders -- The Real Deal
Posted: 2011/10/21

Why would Jibril quit at this time of "glory," when Muammar Gaddafi is supposedly dead? Why? Why would he be "looking glum" at this time.

Here is what I believe has happened. The political leaders, who do control NATO totally, have had it. They instructed NATO to do something--anything that could give them a "good" excuse to end this war, save their money, and so-call proclaim a victory.

Here comes Hillary Clinton, the racist, psychopathic, war-mongering b_ _ ch, just yesterday, calling for the death of Muammar Gaddafi. And suddenly, one day later the deed is supposedly done. Is this to be believed? Perhaps.

It appears to me--although I cannot prove this in absolute terms--that NATO has surrendered, due to pressure from the political forces that control it, as well as due to it's own assessment of its performance as being "ineffectual" and "pathetic." In short, NATO might soon be leaving the rats out to dry--something that Brother Leader Colonel Muammar Gaddafi had predicted, and warned the rats about.

About Dennis South
I have been serving, for 43 years, the cause of helping to create a new, balanced and peaceful world.

http://mathaba.net/news/?x=629074

[mark7sys]

125. NATO gives up: they just can't take the pounding …

… we've been absorbing any longer.

Muammar warned the rats that NATO would end up abandoning them, and now look: Muammar is shown to be correct (as ever). With NATO out of the way, the rats are in a hopeless position.

Reminds me of earlier thoughtful (well, creative, at least) interpretations, like this one:
http://eaglesofpakistan.com/2011/08/22/al-jazeera-shows-fake-green-square-big-fat-tripoli-capture-lies-blasted/

To summarize:

We weren't pushed out of Tripoli, it was a “strategic retreat”. As a matter of fact, Tripoli never fell at all; we've lured the rats into the city … all part of the plan. And those supposed celebrations in Green Square? All fake: NATO (or Al-Jazeera, or both) re-created Green Square outside of Tripoli and filmed the celebrations there. We've got the rats right where we want them.

[Iterate]

118. Cult

That be called the denial stage of grief, but the imaginary battles make it seem like so much more.

I've hesitated posting this in the past, mainly because the definition and nature of cults is very much an unresolved topic in sociology. So this is actually from "The Skeptics Dictionary".

"Cultism usually involves some sort of belief that outside the cult all is evil and threatening; inside the cult is the special path to salvation through the cult leader and his teachings. The indoctrination techniques include

1) Subjection to stress and fatigue
2) Social disruption, isolation and pressure
3) Self criticism and humiliation
4) Fear, anxiety, and paranoia
5) Control of information
6) Escalating commitment
7) Use of auto-hypnosis to induce "peak" experiences
"
http://www.skepdic.com/cults.html

It's not too difficult to see these elements in the experience of the Libyan people, but many of the methods are used in ordinary political manipulation as well.

Now that the voice in their head has gone silent, who knows what will become of them. Even some youtube channels have been shut down, and no more Moussa fix. Somewhere in there are probably some valid social causes, but it seems unlikely they'll find rational expression.

[ellisonz]

123. I think a more accurate term would be...

Cult of Personality

The term cult of personality comes from Karl Marx's critique of the "cult of the individual"—expressed in a letter to German political worker, Wilhelm Bloss. In that, Marx states thus:
“ From my antipathy to any cult of the individual, I never made public during the existence of the <1st> International the numerous addresses from various countries which recognized my merits and which annoyed me... Engels and I first joined the secret society of Communists on the condition that everything making for superstitious worship of authority would be deleted from its statute. ”

Nikita Khrushchev recalled Marx's criticism in his 1956 "Secret Speech" denouncing Stalin to the 20th Party Congress:
“ Comrades, the cult of the individual acquired such monstrous size chiefly because Stalin himself, using all conceivable methods, supported the glorification of his own person. . . . One of the most characteristic examples of Stalin's self-glorification and of his lack of even elementary modesty is the edition of his Short Biography, which was published in 1948.<3>

This book is an expression of the most dissolute flattery, an example of making a man into a godhead, of transforming him into an infallible sage, "the greatest leader," "sublime strategist of all times and nations." Finally no other words could be found with which to lift Stalin up to the heavens.
We need not give here examples of the loathsome adulation filling this book. All we need to add is that they all were approved and edited by Stalin personally and some of them were added in his own handwriting to the draft text of the book.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_of_personality

[pinboy3niner]

114. CURRENT TIME IN LIBYA = 2 AM TUESDAY, OCTOBER 25

Libya time = EDT +6 hours, PDT +9 hours, UTC +1 hour, GMT +2 hours

[ellisonz]

115. Remembering A Tyrant: Gadhafi's Personal Interpreter Now A History Professor At WCSU

Remembering A Tyrant: Gadhafi's Personal Interpreter Now A History Professor At WCSU
Abubaker Saad Says Libyan Leader Was 'Rude,' 'Brutal,' 'Devious'; After Attempted Coup, Saad Fled to U.S.



Dr. Akubaker Saad, a professor at Western Connecticut State University, was a diplomat and interpreter for slain Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi. He fled the country years ago. (WCSU Photo/Peggy Stewart, Courtesy of Western Connecticut State / October 20, 2011)

By KATHLEEN MEGAN, [e-mail] The Hartford Courant
7:51 p.m. EDT, October 24, 2011

As a young man in his 20s, Abubaker Saad was taken in by the dashing, 28-year-old Moammar Gadhafi, who seized power in Libya in a bloodless coup in 1969.

"It was not only me. Most of the young educated guys were really excited. … We thought this is the bright future for the country," said Saad, who worked closely with Gadhafi for nine years as a diplomat and, at times, his personal interpreter. "He's going to promote the country and development."

But within just a few months, Saad, who is now a professor at Western Connecticut State University, and others who worked closely with the new leader, saw Gadhafi's dark and brutal side.

"He was horrible, very horrible. Very rude," Saad said. "You didn't know which word you say is going to tick him off. He was very rude, very impolite. He used to spit in people's face."

http://www.ctnow.com/news/hc-gadhafi-interpreter-1025-20111024,0,3644596.story?track=rss

[ellisonz]

119. More Muammar Cartoons

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2179018

:rofl:

:popcorn:

[pinboy3niner]

120. Gaddafi to be buried in secret desert grave -NTC

Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:42pm GMT

• Gaddafi to be buried in open desert -- NTC official

• Gaddafi's son Saif al-Islam reported to be at border


By Rania El Gamal


MISRATA, Libya, Oct 24 (Reuters) - Ousted Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi will be buried on Tuesday in a secret desert grave, a National Transitional Council official said, ending a wrangle over his rotting corpse that led many to fear for Libya's governability.

With their Western allies uneasy that Gaddafi was battered and shot after his capture on Thursday, rebels had put the body on show in a cold store while they argued over what to do with it, until its decay forced them on Monday to close the doors.

"He will be buried tomorrow in a simple burial with sheikhs attending the burial. It will be an unknown location in the open desert," the official told Reuters by telephone, adding that the decomposition of the body had reached the point where the "corpse cannot last any longer".

...


"No agreement was reached for his tribe to take him," the official told Reuters.

...


http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7LO1O320111024?sp=true

[pinboy3niner]

121. Gadhafi's body taken from freezer, guard says

AP – 3 hrs ago

MISRATA, Libya (AP) — The bodies of Moammar Gadhafi, his son Muatassim and a former aide have been moved from a commercial freezer in a warehouse area of Misrata in anticipation of burial, a security guard said.
...

An Associated Press Television News team saw three vehicles leave the warehouse area late Monday. The team then entered the freezer and found it empty.

http://news.yahoo.com/gadhafis-body-taken-freezer-guard-says-225429670.html

[pinboy3niner]

124. Bodies to be buried within hours--Al Jazeera

From AJE Live Blog:

Libya's National Transitional Council are making final plans to bury the body of the former leader Muammar Gaddafi in a secret desert grave location.

The cold storage unit in Misrata, where the bodies of Gaddafi, his son Mutassim and his defence minister has been emptied.

The National Transitional Council says the bodies will be buried within hours.

Al Jazeera's Hoda Abdel Hamid reports from Misrata (2:14):

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/liveblog/libya-oct-25-2011-0524

[pinboy3niner]

122. Libyan leader seeks to calm West on Sharia fears

By HAMZA HENDAWI and KIM GAMEL - Associated Press | AP – 3 hrs ago


TRIPOLI, Libya (AP) — After giving a speech that emphasized the Islamization of Libya, the head of the transitional government on Monday tried to reassure the Western powers who helped topple Moammar Gadhafi that the country's new leaders are moderate Muslims.

...


"I would like to assure the international community that we as Libyans are moderate Muslims," said Abdul-Jalil, who added that he was dismayed by the focus abroad on his comments Sunday on polygamy. A State Department spokeswoman said the U.S. was encouraged that he had clarified his earlier statement.

...


Guma al-Gamaty, a London-based spokesman for the National Transitional Council, said Abdul-Jalil had an obligation at the dawn of a new era to assure Libyans that Islam will be respected.

"This doesn't mean that Libya will become a theocracy. There is no chance of that whatsoever. Libya will be a civic state, a democratic state and, in principle, its laws will not contradict democracy," he said.

It is the kind of assurance Western powers that supported the anti-Gadhafi fighters with airstrikes and diplomatic backing may have been looking for.

...


http://news.yahoo.com/libyan-leader-seeks-calm-west-sharia-fears-214019428.html

[pinboy3niner]

126. Spokesman for Zimbabwe's Mugabe Now Cites 'Differences' With Gadhafi

24 October 2011

Despite what many took to be a tight relationship, the state-controlled Herald this week quoted Mugabe spokesman George Charamba as saying his boss and Gadhafi had sharp differences 'founded on principles'

Violet Gonda | Washington


Many considered the late Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi to be a close African ally of Zimbabwean President Robert Mugabe, but a spokesman for Mr. Mugabe now says the 87-year-old president had some "serious differences" with his erstwhile comrade.

...


Charamba says Mugabe thought Gadhafi's plan for a “United States of Africa” was “too idealistic” and disagreed with Gadhafi when he sought Western rehabilitation.

...


But commentator and South African-based journalist Basildon Peta says “many lies” are now being told by African leaders now that Gadhafi is dead, telling reporter Violet Gonda that whatever differences Robert Mugabe and Moammar Gadhafi may have had were insignificant in comparison with their comradeship as fellow African dictators.

“Everything he (Charamba) is saying now should be taken with a drum of salt, not a pinch of salt. I cannot imagine any difference of principle between Mugabe and Gadhafi because they were all the same on many issues," Peta said. "It’s just jumping onto the bandwagon to try and disown this very discredited ally of theirs."

Political commentator Charles Mangongera said Mr. Mugabe may not have approved of Gadhafi's eccentricities, but never objected to human rights abuses in Libya. Whatever policy differences existed, ZANU-PF was ideologically in tune with Gadhafi, he said.


http://www.voanews.com/zimbabwe/news/Mugabe-Spokesman-Cites-Differences-With-Gadhafi-132486338.html

[ellisonz]

127. Display of Qaddafi’s Body Recalls Treatment of Mussolini and Ceausescu After Death

October 24, 2011, 10:22 pm
Display of Qaddafi’s Body Recalls Treatment of Mussolini and Ceausescu After Death
By ROBERT MACKEY

As Libya’s interim government ended the public display of Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi’s body on Monday, and more grisly details of his last moments alive were revealed by ever-closer analysis of the gruesome iPhone video recorded by one of the rebels who captured him, the debate about what the brutal treatment of the deposed dictator might mean for Libya’s future raged on.

While rights groups called Colonel Qaddafi’s death in custody under murky circumstances a potential war crime, some Arab journalists and bloggers reminded their readers that the Libyan’s end was similar to the fate suffered by two notorious European dictators, Benito Mussolini and Nicolae Ceausescu.

With those precedents in mind, a Syrian-German blogger, who writes on Twitter as @DSyrer, argued: “democracy and human rights in Italy and Romania look fine to me, despite the brutal execution of their own dictators.”

Soon after Colonel Qaddafi’s death, Jenan Moussa, a reporter for Dubai’s Al Aan TV, posted a link on Twitter to a famous photograph of Mussolini’s body hanging upside down in Milan in 1945, after the dictator, his mistress and other fascist leaders were shot by Italian partisans and their bodies left out in a public square to be abused by angry crowds.

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/24/display-of-qaddafis-body-recalls-treatment-of-mussolini-and-ceausescu-after-death/?partner=rss&emc=rss

[tabatha]

128. Myths of the Gaddafi regime Explained

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2179639

[ellisonz]

129. Africans remember Gadhafi as martyr, benefactor

By MARTIN VOGL and KRISTA LARSON Associated Press
Posted: 10/24/2011 11:06:53 AM MDT
Updated: 10/24/2011 01:54:23 PM MDT

BAMAKO, Mali—Moammar Gadhafi's regime poured tens of billions of dollars into some of Africa's poorest countries. Even when he came to visit, the eccentric Libyan leader won admiration for handing out money to beggars on the streets.

"Other heads of state just drive past here in their limousines. Gadhafi stopped, pushed away his bodyguards and shook our hands," said Cherno Diallo, standing Monday beside hundreds of caged birds he sells near a Libyan-funded hotel. "Gadhafi's death has touched every Malian, every single one of us. We're all upset."

-------

Critics, though, note this image is at odds with Gadhafi's history of backing some of Africa's most brutal rebel leaders and dictators. Gadhafi sent 600 troops to support Uganda's much-hated Idi Amin​ in the final throes of his dictatorship.

And Gadhafi-funded rebels supported by former Liberian leader Charles Taylor forcibly recruited children and chopped off limbs of their victims during Sierra Leone's civil war.

"Is Gadhafi's life more important than many thousands of people that have been killed during the war in these two countries?" asked one shopkeeper in the tiny West African country of Gambia, who spoke on condition of anonymity fearing recrimination.

http://www.denverpost.com/nationworld/ci_19182321?source=rss

[pinboy3niner]

130. Only 4 people will witness Gaddafi burial and they will swear secrecy on the Quran

@SultanAlQassemi

France 24 correspondent: Only four people will witness the Gaddafi burial & they will have to swear on the Quran not to reveal the location.

4:12AM GMT Oct 25, 2011 Update

[ellisonz]

132. Goodbye Gaddafi!

[tabatha]

134. Being a dictator is a dying occupation !!

[pinboy3niner]

135. Gaddafi was featured in a teaser for the Letterman show tonight

It uses a clip of him, but they doctored it to place him in hell, saying, "But it's a dry heat..." :)

[pinboy3niner]

142. Gaddafi did Dave's Top Ten: #2 'Homicidal reign of terror? For that you go to hell?'

:rofl: :evilgrin:

[tabatha]

133. Morocco celebrates Libya's freedom.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qw4tnnZ-3yI&feature=youtu.be

[pinboy3niner]

136. Josh, I just heard from Geraldine...

She called to say that the devil made me do this:




I blame the influence of all the editorial cartoons featuring Gaddafi, hell and Satan (thanks to ellisonz). :evilgrin:

[ellisonz]

137. You forgot hallucinogens...

[pinboy3niner]

140. LOL! And, of course, there's the oldie but goodie...

"Their ages are 17. They give them pills at night, they put hallucinatory pills in their drinks, their milk, their coffee, their Nescafe." -- Muammar Gaddafi

[tabatha]

139. If there is one more thread

I think someone will faint or worse.

[pinboy3niner]

143. Wouldn't be the first time--and I expect she has a fainting couch :) nt

[ellisonz]

144. Yeah Josh...

[pinboy3niner]

145. I think you just gave Josh a reason to live :) nt

[pinboy3niner]

147. My apologies...I neglected to add another graphic...

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-v5yX3qi5nfg/TjgfbdSQ9SI/AAAAAAAAFdw/BQiim-qnmT0/s320/1+-+The-Devil-Made-me-Buy-This-Dress-Flip-Wilson+-+sello+Little+David+rds+1970.jpg

[joshcryer]

169. Psst.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2e7dpVDX54

[tabatha]

138. The Sweet Taste of Freedom: Libya Moves Forward

(Really, really good article)

But after five visits to this country in the last seven months I can see reason to be optimistic. Simply walking the streets of Tripoli and Misrata in the last few days has been a revelation. The rebuilding has not begun, but the cities have been scoured clean. Trees are trimmed and flowers are planted in public places. The streets are busy and the shops are full. There is absolutely no sense of menace in the areas we have visited. Instead, there is an orderly calm (apart from the chaotic and congested traffic) and a disarming sense of welcome.

All of this is even more astonishing when you consider that unlike neighboring Tunisia and Egypt, Gadhafi did not leave this country with effective police or military to secure the streets.

More than one person has mentioned the anarchy that left Baghdad in ruins and hobbled Iraq in its efforts to rebuild.

In Libya militia members and soldiers from the emerging army are on patrol, but what really seems to be keeping order and civility on the streets is a widespread sense that after having invested so much in this revolution the people do not want see it undermined.

http://feb17.info/news/the-sweet-taste-of-freedom-libya-moves-forward/

[ellisonz]

141. PRI: Political Cartoons Capture Gaddafi’s Many Sides

Political Cartoons Capture Gaddafi’s Many Sides
By The World ⋅ October 20, 2011 ⋅ Post a comment

Lisa Mullins: I’m Lisa Mullins and this is The World. Muammar Gaddafi ruled Lybia for forty two years. His image varied widely during those four decades in power. Gaddafi was referred to as a revolutionary, a strongman, a dictator, and a clown. Those depictions showed up over and over again in political cartoons and today cartoonists around the world reacted to news of Muammar Gaddafi’s death with some fresh drawings. The World’s global cartoon editor, Carol Hills has been monitoring the reaction. What are you finding Carol?

Carol Hills: Well I’m seeing all sorts of like a rat finally caught by the tail. I’m seeing the head of a scorpion. The head is of course Muammar Gaddafi and the rest of his body is being pulled away. There’s one cartoon with a sort of bullet going through his head and the bullet is democracy. So theirs a lot of different types of images and most of them are kind of mixed gruesome with the kind of age old cartoon look of Gaddafi.

Mullins: And the drawings themselves, the images, how do they differ today after Gaddafi’s death from those that were drawn before his death in terms of the images used?

Hills: Well, in recent months since the uprising started there have been a lot of kind of, you know, the line up pictures with the head of Tunisia, head of Egypt, and Gaddafi in waiting, waiting to be found and gotten rid of, but before that, I think cartoonists took much more liberty and depicted him in more of a clownish way and made fun of him less as a dark dangerous figure and more of a sort of funny figure.

http://www.theworld.org/2011/10/gaddafi-in-political-cartoons/

"I have no idea what readership is of written editorials, but it doesn't come anywhere close to the readership of editorial cartoons."
-Paul Conrad

[tabatha]

146. Op-Ed: Gaddafi & Libya through Western eyes

(Another really, really good article - hey, Josh, this is for you)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2180304

[pinboy3niner]

148. The internets are full of 'OMG!' reactions to Jalil's comments on sharia law

Some comments say, I said this would happen!1!!

What's funny is that NONE OF THIS IS NEWS to anyone who has really been following Libya. As readers of these threads know, NTC leaders were saying this MONTHS ago in their press interviews on the process and timeline toward a constitution and a new, democratic government in Libya.

Before long, even an early draft of constitutional documents was leaked in news accounts that reported the role of sharia law in the planned new Libyan state.

Despite all of these reports over the past months, there suddenly is a hysterical reaction to Jalil's remarks in Benghazi. OH NOES, Sharia law!1!! Women are really screwed now!1!!

And, of course, none of these hysterical writings bothers to look at what the NTC has actually said about women in Libya:


From the NTC's website:

7. ROLE OF WOMEN


Q. What will be the role of women in Libya’s society?


A. Libyan women have played a major role in the February 17th revolution and will continue to play a major role in the nation building of this country. Women, in recent years, have accounted for more than 50% of university graduates and as such, there will be a right to and a desire for women to participate to all levels of Libyan society, civically, professionally and personally.


Q. Will women be subjected to a different status from men as may be the case in other Muslim or Arab countries?


A. The NTC envisions a future where human rights are ensured, that is inclusive and based on the principle of equality. We do not see these principles as countering any of the Islamic tenets nor cultural restraints.


Q. How many women are part of the NTC and the Executive Board?


A. Currently the NTC has one woman dedicated to Women’s Issues as well as various women working in the NTC as support functions. It is expected as candidates are identified that women will also play more visible and senior roles in the transitional government.


http://ntclibya.com/InnerPage.aspx?SSID=15&ParentID=11&LangID=1

The new, Free Libya faces many challenges and there will be power struggles. But Libyan women are working to make their voices heard, and there are Libyan men who support equal rights.

All of this sudden hysteria--some of it genuine, some of it merely anti-Islamic bigotry and some of it simply to demonize the Revolutionaries and re-fight already-lost battles over the intervention--is either premature or laughably ridiculous in light of hidden intentions and motives.

Wasn't Rush Limbaugh one of the first I-told-you-so commenters? That ought to tell us something.

[pinboy3niner]

149. Col Gaddafi 'buried in secret, desert grave at dawn'

Source: BBC

The bodies of ex-Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi, his son Muatassim and a top aide have been buried in secret in the desert, Libyan officials say.

A National Transitional Council (NTC) official told the BBC the bodies were buried at dawn in an unknown location.

This follows days of apparent uncertainty among the new leadership about what to do with the bodies.

...


Guma al-Gamaty, a London-based spokesman for the NTC, told the BBC the burial had taken place.

...


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-15441867

[pinboy3niner]

150. In final weeks, Gadhafi between rage and despair

By KARIN LAUB and RAMI AL-SHAHEIBI - Associated Press | AP – 22 mins ago


MISRATA, Libya (AP) — Moammar Gadhafi, Libya's all-powerful leader for four decades, spent his final weeks shuttling from hideout to hideout in his hometown of Sirte, alternating between rage and melancholy as his regime crumbled around him, said a Gadhafi confidant now in custody.

Gadhafi, his son Muatassim and an entourage of two dozen die-hard loyalists were largely cut off from the world while on the run, living in abandoned homes without TV, phones or electricity, said Mansour Dao, a member of the Gadhafi clan and chief bodyguard.

Gadhafi would spend his time reading, jotting down notes or brewing tea on a coal stove, Dao said late Monday in a conference room of the revolutionary forces' headquarters in the port city of Misrata, his temporary jail cell. "He was not leading the battle," Dao said of Gadhafi. "His sons did that. He did not plan anything or think about any plan."

The uprising against Gadhafi erupted in February and quickly escalated into a civil war that formally ended Sunday, with a declaration of liberation by Libya's new leaders.

...


http://news.yahoo.com/final-weeks-gadhafi-between-rage-despair-075356450.html

[Akarion]

152. Peter Bouckaert and the unsecured weapons in libya

HRW Emergencies Director, Peter Bouckaert explores an unguarded weapons storage facility about 100km south of Sirte with vast amounts of explosive weapons. Saturday Oct. 22 2011

www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdnQiM6oJ3w

http://www.hrw.org/news/2011/10/25/libya-transitional-council-failing-secure-weapons

[tabatha]

153. Hunt for missiles missing in Libya

A British military team is hunting missing missiles in post-Gaddafi Libya, the Government has said.

Foreign Office minister Alistair Burt told MPs experts were searching for surface-to-air missiles which vanished as the country descended into civil war.

Mr Burt said: "There is already a team of people from the UK assisting both in dealing with the collection of weapons of small arms and also looking after the issue in relation to the surface-to-air missiles that have gone missing in the area.
"We have also got people involved in demining and decommissioning."

Mr Burt said it was essential militia fighters who helped oust Muammar Gaddafi from his 42-year rule came under the control of Libya's interim government, the National Transitional Council (NTC).

Shadow foreign secretary Douglas Alexander called on ministers to press the NTC to speed-up the surrendering of guns used in the eight-month revolution, which led to Gaddafi's bloody death last Thursday in Sirte.

http://www.kuna.net.kw/NewsAgenciesPublicSite/ArticleDetails.aspx?id=2198898&Language=en

[pinboy3niner]

154. Insider describes Gaddafi son's escape from town

Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:24pm GMT

• Saif increasingly feared being hit by mortar

• Had been Western-friendly face of regime

• Locals had seen his vehicles pass by


By Maria Golovnina and Taha Zargoun


BANI WALID, Libya, Oct 25 (Reuters) - Muammar Gaddafi's son Saif al-Islam called his father frequently on the telephone and became increasingly feared being hit by a mortar as he tried to escape from the besieged town of Bani Walid last week, an officer who had been with him told Reuters on Tuesday.

"He was nervous. He had a Thuraya (satellite phone) and he called his father many times," said al-Senussi Sharif al-Senussi, a lieutenant in Gaddafi's army who was part of Saif's security team in Bani Walid until the city fell on Oct. 17.

"He repeated to us: don't tell anyone where I am. Don't let them spot me. He was afraid of mortars. He seemed confused."

Senussi spoke to Reuters at a makeshift jail inside Bani Walid's airport where he has been kept by forces loyal to Libya's ruling National Transitional Council (NTC) since his capture alongside other pro-Gaddafi troops last week.

...


"When his convoy left Bani Walid it was hit by an air strike but he escaped alive," said Senussi, who is not related to Gaddafi's powerful former security chief, Abdullah al-Senussi.

...


http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7LP4F020111025?sp=true

[ellisonz]

166. Run Rat Run

[pinboy3niner]

168. Don't cry for me, Jamahiriya :) nt

[tabatha]

155. Well perhaps you'd be interested in the view of an actual Libyan

Well perhaps you'd be interested in the view of an actual Libyan who lived in Gaddafi's nightmarish 1984-style world. A Libyan who's relatives were wrongly imprisoned for 20 years, and who wasn't able to reach his family members in the battered city of Misrata for months, always wondering if they were alive or dead. A Libyan who watched video after video of innocent Libyans murdered by Gaddafi's thugs, simple for calling for change after 42 years of brutal dicatorship.

One thing to point out is that Libyans aren't naive, we know all governments operate based on interests. Our next challenge will be to make sure the interets of the nations that help us, match our interests and it's a challenge we'll happily take on, now our 42 year nightmare has ended. Many Libyans were actually opposed to any NATO/UN intervention to start off with, but when we saw that Gaddafi was hellbent on actually wipping cities like Benghazi/Misrata off the map (and there is documented evidence that show he sent these exact orders to his forces) that we realised we needed help.

We would have gladly taken protection form our Arab or African brothers, but the latter especially were too busy kissing Gaddafi's ass. So when a 4km long convoy of heavy weapons, armour, tanks, artillery is headed to destroy your city, and massacre 10s of thousands, you sort of don't get too particular about where help comes from. NATO intervened and the facts on the ground are that they saved lives.

Why did NATO intervene? Well there are a few key reasons, they saw the people were going to keep going and figured they'd ensure their interests by getting in good with the new people running Libya. There was also a public outcry about allowing this kinda massacre to happen so close to europe. From a practical perspective, action in Libya doesn't bare the risk of regional conflagration, not nearly as much as Syria, so that helped. Is it because they love Libyans or arabs or muslims? No, we never thought that. Oh and as for oil, well Gaddafi was the richest man on the planet, he didn't create Microsoft, or the iPhone. He stole our oil, that's how he made money. So we've had OUR oil stolen for about 42 years by Gaddafi and his cronies.

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/dqhe12

[pinboy3niner]

156. Yemen president calls in US ambassador

By GAMAL ABDUL-FATTAH - Associated Press | AP – 54 mins ago


SANAA, Yemen (AP) — Yemen's president on Tuesday called in the U.S. ambassador and told him he would sign a deal to step down, a U.S. official said. The embattled leader, who has made that pledge several times before, spoke as violence shook his capital.

President Ali Abdullah Saleh informed Ambassador Gerald Feierstein of a new cease-fire, but clashes on the streets threw that into doubt. Activists said seven protesters were killed and 10 wounded.

It was the first meeting between Saleh and a U.S. ambassador since Saleh returned from Saudi Arabia last month, said U.S. State Department spokeswoman Diane Nuland. Saleh left Yemen after an attack on his compound in early June left him badly wounded.

...


Nuland said Saleh confirmed he would sign the Gulf Cooperation Council plan for him to step down — a claim he has made several times this year but then backed down at the last minute, infuriating both opponents and former allies.

...


http://news.yahoo.com/yemen-president-calls-us-ambassador-181540566.html

[ellisonz]

157. After 42 years: A Libyan American poet commemorates the overthrow of Kadafi

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2183350

http://soundcloud.com/rebeccakesby1/khaled-mattawa-poem-after-42?utm_source=soundcloud&utm_campaign=share&utm_medium=twitter&utm_content=http://soundcloud.com/rebeccakesby1/khaled-mattawa-poem-after-42

[pinboy3niner]

158. Tripoli in hurry to consign Gaddafi to past

Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:27pm GMT

• Most Tripolitanians comfortable with death, burial

• A minority echo Western disquiet over recent events

• "Let dust of desert" cover him, resident says


By Barry Malone


TRIPOLI, Oct 25 (Reuters) - Muammar Gaddafi, with his pocked face and curly hair, may have been one of the most recognisable figures of the 20th century, but the capital he lorded over is doing its best to forget him.

"Let the dust of the desert sweep over the hole where he was buried," Mohammed al Sharif said in English, to nods of approval from friends, on the day the dead dictator's decomposing body was consigned to precisely that -- a secret desert grave.

"Then the name 'Muammar' can be forgotten and our children will never know of this time," he said.

With every car that drives along the coast road, every tea served in a cafe and every child who toddles down its streets with no knowledge of the huge figure who has just been buried, Tripoli is doing its best to put Gaddafi and his legacy well behind it.

"Look around you," Mustafa Khatei, 32, said as he stood on a narrow lane way near the old city area, shoppers frustrated by his position in their path, muttering as they bustle past.

"What do you see?" he said. "Life goes on."

...


http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7LP43A20111025?sp=true

[pinboy3niner]

159. Obama talks politics, Libya with Leno

STORY HIGHLIGHTS

• Obama appears on "The Tonight Show" with Jay Leno Tuesday evening

• Obama says he won't pay attention to the GOP primary until it's down to 1 or 2 candidates

• Obama tells Leno that Gadhafi's death sends "a strong message" to other dictators

By the CNN Wire Staff
updated 4:49 PM EST, Tue October 25, 2011


LOS ANGELES (CNN) -- President Barack Obama chats about politics and foreign policy during a taped appearance on "The Tonight Show with Jay Leno" Tuesday, telling the late-night talk show host he's not spending too much time yet focusing on next year's potential GOP rivals.

Asked by Leno if he's been watching the recent spate of Republican presidential debates, Obama says that he's "going to wait until everybody's voted off the island."

...


"This is somebody who for 40 years has terrorized his country and supported terrorism," Obama says. Gadhafi "had an opportunity during the Arab Spring to finally let loose of his grip on power and to peacefully transition into democracy. We gave him ample opportunity, and he wouldn't do it."

Obama stresses that he didn't enjoy seeing Gadhafi's violent death, but notes that it sends "a strong message around the word to dictators" that "people long to be free," and that "universal rights" and aspirations should be respected.


http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/25/politics/obama-tonight-show/

[pinboy3niner]

178. VIDEO: Obama on Gaddafi, Republicans and ratings (1:24)

From the taping of The Tonight Show with Jay Leno:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-15454510

[pinboy3niner]

160. Tunisia Islamist party seeking coalition partners

By BOUAZZA BEN BOUAZZA and PAUL SCHEMM - Associated Press | AP – 50 mins ago


TUNIS, Tunisia (AP) — The moderate Islamist party that appears to have won Tunisia's landmark elections was in talks with rivals Tuesday about forming an interim coalition government to lead the birthplace of the Arab Spring through its transition to democracy.

Partial results released supported the Ennahda party's claims that it had won the most seats in a 217-member assembly tasked with running the country and writing its new constitution. But results so far indicate the Islamists had failed to win an outright majority, meaning a coalition must be formed.

Ennahda's ability to win an election as well as work with other groups will be closely watched in the Arab world, where other Islamist parties are to compete in elections soon. Tunisia has a strong secular tradition, and Ennahda officials promised a broad-based coalition.

"We will not exclude any party, independent personality or social movement," said Abdel Hamid Jelassi, Ennahda's campaign manager. "We were once the victims of a politics of exclusion and our goal is to create a government of national unity."

...


http://news.yahoo.com/tunisia-islamist-party-seeking-coalition-partners-193826300.html

[pinboy3niner]

161. "Throw him in a hole, throw him in the sea, throw him in garbage. No matter."

From AJE Live Blog:

Libyans interviewed by Reuters on Tuesday say they're eager to consign Gaddafi to history, no matter how he died.

With every car that drives along the coast road, every tea served in a cafe and every child who toddles down its streets with no knowledge of the huge figure who has just been buried, Tripoli is doing its best to put Gaddafi and his legacy well behind it.

"Throw him in a hole, throw him in the sea, throw him in garbage. No matter," Ali Azzarog, a 47-year-old engineer, said near the port, where ships' horns earlier blared their approval of the news.

"He is lower than a donkey or a dog and only foreigners say that they care about how we killed him. And they are lying."

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/liveblog/libya-oct-25-2011-2143

[pinboy3niner]

162. Jon Stewart: Fewer Wars Cause GOP War Hawks to Exhibit Empty Nest Syndrome

By Saul Relative


COMMENTARY | Leave it to a late-night comedian to find a strangely plausible trigger for all the Republican condemnation about developments in Libya and Iraq that most would have thought would have been received as positive news. But sometimes it takes a moment of levity to clear the air of all the partisan smoke.


Jon Stewart used his comedy pen on the Monday episode of "The Daily Show" to explain why Republicans were so quick to criticize the Obama administration's foreign policy with regard to the death of Libya's dictator Moammar Gadhafi and the announcement of the withdrawal of American troops from Iraq by the end of the year. Stewart's diagnosis: The sudden end of two wars triggered an "empty nest syndrome" response within the GOP war-hawk ranks.


After pointing out the Obama administration only carried out an agreement put in place by the Bush administration in 2007, Stewart showed clips of Republicans calling the withdrawal a "mistake," with Rep. Michele Bachmann labeling it a failure of Barack Obama's foreign policy. In one clip, Bachmann stated she was against the Libya "entanglement" from the start.

...


Then Stewart figured it out. "For god sakes, in three days Obama has taken us down from three wars to one." He paused. "Is that what's going on? Are America's hawks having empty nest syndrome?"


Within the space of a what amounts to hours, not only did rebels eliminate the figurehead of the dictatorship that had ruled Libya for more than 40 years and announce they would be working toward setting up a democratic government, but the next day NATO commander Adm. James Stavridis announced NATO would soon be ending its role in the Libyan conflict. Later the same day, President Obama announced the rest of the American troops still stationed in Iraq would return to the U.S. by year's end.

...


http://news.yahoo.com/jon-stewart-fewer-wars-cause-gop-war-hawks-202600447.html

[pinboy3niner]

165. Jon Stewart: Iraq Withdrawal Giving Republicans 'Empty Nest Syndrome' - VIDEO

Posted in GD by Tx4obama:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2183966

[pinboy3niner]

163. CURRENT TIME IN LIBYA = 12:01 AM WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 26

Libya time = EDT +6 hours, PDT +9 hours, UTC +1 hour, GMT +2 hours

[pinboy3niner]

164. Libya gives Gaddafi inglorious secret burial

Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:27pm GMT

• Fallen Libyan leader, son interred in secret spot

• Fugitive Saif al-Islam said to be near border crossing


By Barry Malone


TRIPOLI, Oct 25 (Reuters) - Muammar Gaddafi and his son Mo'tassim were buried in a secret desert location on Tuesday, five days after the deposed Libyan leader was captured, killed and put on grisly public display.

"He (Gaddafi) has just been buried now in the desert along with his son," National Transitional Council (NTC) commander Abdel Majid Mlegta told Reuters by telephone.

Gaddafi's cleric, Khaled Tantoush, who was captured with him, prayed over the bodies before they were taken from the compound in the coastal city of Misrata, where they had been on show, and handed to two NTC loyalists for burial, he said.

...


The prayers for the dead were attended by two of Gaddafi's cousins, Mansour Dhao Ibrahim, once leader of the feared People's Guard, and Ahmed Ibrahim. Both were captured with him after a NATO air strike hit a convoy of vehicles trying to break out of Sirte, Gaddafi's home town, just after it fell.

...


http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7LP2HL20111025?sp=true

[Iterate]

167. Death of Gaddafi, a new dawn for Libya

Death of Gaddafi, a new dawn for Libya
Tehran Times - Opinion
Mohammad Ali Mohtadi; Mohammad Ali Mohtadi is a journalist and Middle East expert based in Tehran.
On Line: 25 October 2011 18:01 In Print: Wednesday 26 October 2011

...

Unlike the situation in many other autocratic regimes, the death of Gaddafi cannot be regarded as the end of the battle to liberate the country. The tribes loyal to Gaddafi and his eldest son Saif al-Islam will most likely try to regroup and start a new battle against the government. This will have serious repercussions for Libya’s National Transitional Council. It also means that the traditional stronghold of Gaddafi loyalists in southern Libya cannot be regarded as fully liberated.

The NTC will have to make a decision if the foreign forces do not disengage from the country. It was expected that NATO forces would cease their military operations as soon as the regime fell. However, the Western powers have begun talking about the instability and political turmoil in the country as a pretext to maintain a military presence in Libya.

There is a plot to plunder the vast resources of Libya and to gain better control over regional developments.

At this critical juncture, the fact that the revolution belongs to the people must be emphasized. And thus, the Libyan people must show their determination to neutralize this plot.

http://www.tehrantimes.com/index.php/opinion/3942-death-of-gaddafi-a-new-dawn-for-libya

Brief, inaccurate, and slightly bizarre construction of Libyan events from Tehran. Sympathetic, yet like getting advice from the uncle you shouldn't necessarily trust.

[pinboy3niner]

170. Tarhouni asks NATO to continue its air mission in Libya for "at least one more month"

From AJE Libya Live Blog:

NTC Oil and Finance Minister Ali Tarhouni has asked NATO to continue its air mission in Libya for "at least one more month," despite earlier statements from US and European officials that the death of ousted leader Muammar Gaddafi meant the mission could come to an end, the AFP news agency reports.

NATO has said it would wind down its mission and end it by October 31, in six days.

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/liveblog/libya-oct-25-2011-1537

[tabatha]

171. Watch the NATO conspiracy people go nuts.

I see Josh is absent for a while - I think he want this to wind down naturally.

[pinboy3niner]

174. Yeah, lol

Not for long, though--NATO decides tomorrow, and there's no reason for them not to end it. I think Tarhouni jut wants to make sure the oil infrastructure is protected against attack by Gaddafi dead-enders. But security for oil facilities is really the NTC's responsibility now. And Tarhouni only speaks for himself--there's no word of the NTC making a request to NATO to stick around.

I thought Josh would do one more thread, but I don't blame him for wanting to end it. It's been a long haul for all of us.

[pinboy3niner]

172. NATO likely to end Libya mission now Gaddafi dead

Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:38pm GMT

• NATO ambassadors to decide on ending mission

• Treatment of Gaddafi loyalists a test for NTC

• Fugitive Saif al-Islam said to be near border crossing


By Barry Malone


TRIPOLI, Oct 26 (Reuters) - NATO is to formally decide on Wednesday whether to end its mission over Libya now that Muammar Gaddafi is dead and buried and the country's new leaders have declared the nation "liberated".

...


NATO's Deputy Assistant Secretary General for Political Affairs and Security Policy, James Appathurai, said he expected the alliance to confirm its decision to end the mission.

"I don't expect that there will be a change to that decision, because it is quite clear that the pro-Gaddafi elements no longer have the command and control or other capabilities to pose an organised threat to civilians. That is now finished, and as a result our operation will end," he said.

Western military powers have already begun winding down the Libyan mission, and diplomats have said the majority of NATO equipment, including fighter jets, has already been withdrawn.

A NATO statement on Tuesday said operations in the interim would involve intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance missions, although NATO would retain the capability to conduct air strikes if they were needed.

...


http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7LP4KU20111025?sp=true

[tabatha]

173. Happy Liberations Day - on to your next challenge, Libyans.

[tabatha]

175. From India

[tabatha]

176. Gaddafi is gone; what are Africans mourning?

Shyaka Kanuma

Gaddafi was as disruptive as he was eccentric. I was a journalist in South Africa in 2002 and I remember news reports the week the African Union was inaugurated to take the place of the defunct OAU. That was to take place in the South African coastal city of Durban. Every other head of state observed the normal proto­cols: bringing in pre-agreed upon numbers of members of their entourages; proscribed numbers of personal bodyguards with agreed-upon amounts of small weapons, and so on. Well, Gaddafi wouldn’t have been Gaddafi if he instead didn’t see an opportunity to display a sample of the firepower at his command. Six Boeing jumbo jets flew into Durban from Tripoli, positively bristling with machine guns, SMGs, assault rifles, RPGs…, as well as several mem­bers of the Libyan military.

It was a nightmare for the South African hosts. They were not about to allow someone to unload six jumbo jets full of weapons and fighting men and women on their soil of course. What ensued was a wild brawl at the airport between members of the South African army and the Libyans, with the former prevailing, con­fining the Libyans in their planes and compelling them to fly back. But that was not the end of the drama. Out in the Indian Ocean, a ship was bringing Gaddafi to the city, and it was laden with…AK 47 rifles and other assault weapons, rocket launchers, gre­nades, name it. And it also was carrying the food of the guide and his entourage, comprising of hundreds of frozen goat car­casses, among other delicacies on board, according to news­paper reports that interviewed port officials and other eye wit­nesses. The ship also presum­ably carried Gaddafi’s camel and tent, not to mention trunk loads of U.S. dollars, because later Gaddafi’s people were to cause a stampede in one of Durban’s poorer neighbourhood when the Guide, in one of his capricious fits of magnanimity, decided to dispense hundred dollar bills to anyone who dropped nearby his caravan.

The man was a raving luna­tic. What fevered state of mind caused him to imagine he could bring what amounted to a mili­tary invasion force to another country? We were to learn that the intention was to take over the security arrangements for all the visiting African heads of state. He apparently never talk­ed it over with his host Thabo Mbeki, but went ahead and at­tempted to deploy his military in South Africa anyway. That was Gaddafi for you, a madman who acted any way he liked because he was the head of state of an oil-gushing country whose earnings he treated as his personal piggy bank, with the spending habits of a drunken sailor.

http://www.opednews.com/populum/linkframe.php?linkid=140178

What is Gaddafi’s legacy in Africa? Last week, news reports were talking of many people all over Sub Sahara mourning his fall (Sub Sahara, mark you, not the Arab north which was busy rejoicing the demise of an insuf­ferable tyrant). This leaves one wondering about the thought processes of the average man and woman of these black Afri­can countries. What exactly are they mourning? The fellow who was one of the main sponsors of Idi Amin? Are they mourn­ing the character who gave lots of money to rebels in Sierra Leone whose main modus ope­randi was amputating limbs or cutting off the noses, lips, ears or other body parts of any poor person unlucky enough to fall in their hands? Are these Africans mourning the ruthless tyrant who deployed fighter jets to be­gin bombing his own people in a bid to cling onto power when the people rose up to demand an end to his four-decade rule?

[tabatha]

177. Kadhafi ‘got what he deserved,’ say Bulgarian nurses

Bulgarian nurses imprisoned in Libya for eight years over an HIV scandal welcomed on Thursday news of Moamer Kadhafi’s death, saying the deposed Libyan strongman had “got what he deserved”.

“The news made me very happy. It’s a punishment. A dog like him deserved to die like a dog,” Valya Chervenyashka told AFP.

She, along with four other Bulgarian nurses and a Palestinian-born doctor, was jailed in 1999, tortured and twice sentenced to death under Kadhafi’s regime.

“I am really happy, I was expecting it. He got what he deserved,” Valentina Siropolu, another of the nurses freed in 2007, added.

http://feb17.info/news/kadhafi-got-what-he-deserved-say-bulgarian-nurses/

[Iterate]

179. N. Korea Bans Nationals Returning Home from Libya

N. Korea Bans Nationals Returning Home from Libya

OCT 26, 2011
Reporter : [e-mail]

North Korea reportedly has banned its nationals in Libya from returning home fearing they may spread news about the freedom the North African country achieved after eight month-long pro-democracy protests.

Seoul-based Yonhap news agency, citing an unnamed source says Pyeongyang ordered about 200 of its nationals in Libya to not return home out of apparent concern that returning workers could push for a similar uprising.

The source added that he believes the North is not recognizing Libya's National Transitional Council as the legitimate government.

The North Korean regime has tightened control of information since the so-called 'Arab Spring' began strictly monitoring the use of computers, cell phones and memory sticks.

http://www.arirang.co.kr/News/News_View.asp?nseq=121898&code=Ne2&category=2

[Iterate]

180. Video: Morrocans celebrate Libya’s Liberation

Video: Morrocans celebrate Libya’s Liberation
http://youtu.be/Qw4tnnZ-3yI

[pinboy3niner]

181. Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan condemns killing of Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi

Posted in GD by rug:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2184987

[pinboy3niner]

182. NATO support for Libya welcome until end-2011 - NTC

Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:27am GMT


DOHA Oct 26 (Reuters) - NATO should stay involved in Libya until the end of this year to help prevent loyalists of late strongman Muammar Gaddafi from leaving the country, interim leader Mustafa Abdel Jalil said at meeting with the military alliance in Qatar on Wednesday.

...

"We look forward to NATO continuing its operations until the end of the year," Jalil told reporters, adding that stopping the flight of Gaddafi supporters to other countries was a priority.

...


In Brussels on Wednesday, a NATO official said the alliance had postponed until Friday a meeting of its ambassadors which had been set for Wednesday and was expected to formalise a decision to end its Libya mission.

"The Libya discussion has been moved to Friday to accommodate the ongoing consultations with the United Nations and the National Transitional Council," the NATO official said.

...


http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7LQ0A820111026

[pinboy3niner]

183. VIDEO purporting to show part of Gaddafi burial ceremony (2:28)

Matthew Weaver and Haroon Siddique post at The Guardian's Live Blog:

The UAE broadcaster Alaan TV has shown footage of what it claims is part of the burial ceremony for Muammar Gaddafi, his son Mutassim and his defence minister Abu Bakr Younes. Warning the clip contains disturbing images.

The ceremony was attended by several people the clip shows. It is understood the burial itself took place later at a different location. The footage cannot be independently verified.

Video (2:28):
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/middle-east-live/2011/oct/26/libya-syria-middle-east-unrest-live#block-3

[pinboy3niner]

184. Yemeni women burn their veils to protest crackdown

By GAMAL ABDUL-FATTAH - Associated Press | AP – 20 mins ago


SANAA, Yemen (AP) — Hundreds of Yemeni women have set fire to a pile of traditional female veils to protest the government's brutal crackdown against the country's popular uprising.

The act of women burning their clothing is a symbolic Bedouin tribal gesture signifying an appeal for help to tribesmen.

Wednesday's protest in the capital Sanaa comes as clashes intensify between forces loyal to President Ali Abdullah Saleh and renegade fighters who have sided with the opposition in demands that the president step down.

Medical and local officials say up to 25 civilians, tribal fighters and government soldiers died overnight in Sanaa and the city of Taiz despite Saleh's ceasefire announcement late Tuesday.

...


http://news.yahoo.com/yemeni-women-burn-veils-protest-crackdown-105312645.html

[pinboy3niner]

195. Yemeni women burn veils to protest regime (Pic. Heavy)

Posted in LBN by Turborama:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x5038650

[pinboy3niner]

185. Gaddafi family will file war crimes complaint against NATO with ICC--lawyer

From AJE Live Blog:

Gaddafi's family plans to file a war crimes complaint against NATO with the International Criminal Court (ICC) for the alliance's alleged role in his death, the family's lawyer said.

Marcel Ceccaldi, a French lawyer who previously worked for Gaddafi’s regime and now represents his family, told AFP news agency on Wednesday that a complaint would be filed with the Hague-based ICC because NATO's attack on the convoy led directly to his death.

"The wilful killing (of someone protected by the Geneva Convention) is defined as a war crime by Article 8 of the ICC's Rome Statute," he said.

He said he could not yet say when the complaint would be filed, but said it would target both NATO executive bodies and the leaders of alliance member states.

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/liveblog/libya-oct-26-2011-1205

[pinboy3niner]

186. Arab delegation presses Syria's Assad on violence

By ZEINA KARAM - Associated Press | AP – 24 mins ago


BEIRUT (AP) — Senior Arab officials visiting Syria pressed President Bashar Assad on Wednesday to start a dialogue with the opposition, hours after tens of thousands packed a Damascus square to show support for their embattled leader, state TV reported.

The Arab ministerial committee led by Qatar's prime minister began a meeting with Assad later in the afternoon, but prospects for the mission's success were dim. The opposition's refuses any dialogue with the regime, particularly while it continues its military crackdown on protesters, which the U.N. says has killed 3,000 people since March.

Activists said at least nine civilians were killed Wednesday in military operations across the country, six of them in the flashpoint central city of Homs.

The Arab officials' visit follows a meeting in Cairo last week by the 22-nation Arab League, which gave Syria until the end of the month to end military operations, release detainees arrested in the crackdown, and start a dialogue with the opposition.

...


http://news.yahoo.com/arab-delegation-presses-syrias-assad-violence-131201638.html

[pinboy3niner]

187. Video suggests Syria bused in army troops dressed as flag-waving supporters to pro-Assad rally

From The Guardian's Live Blog:

As the Syrian government stages its second pro-government rally in as many weeks, video has emerged suggesting the army is being used to bus in troops dressed as flag-waving supporters.

The clip (1:03) shows truck and bus loads of men with placards and Syrian flags. The caption says the supporters are on the way to the rally in Damascus. The claim cannot be independently verified.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/middle-east-live/2011/oct/26/libya-syria-middle-east-unrest-live#block-15

[pinboy3niner]

188. The human cost of defending Libya's oil

Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:00pm GMT

By Jessica Donati


AMAL, Libya Oct 26 (Reuters) - Abdula Altako was killed in March guarding the oil field he worked for, one of the first but by no means the last of Libya's oil workers to die defending the country's lifeblood.

Abandoned by their foreign owners during the uprising against Muammar Gaddafi, the fields have been watched over by local workers aiming to deter looters and prevent facilities from falling into disrepair.

Altako, who worked for private German oil and gas company Wintershall, was starting his morning guard shift when he was ambushed and shot dead in his car.

"We have a lot of patriots protecting fields. I signed orders that sent engineers out that ended up dying," interim oil and finance minister Ali Tarhouni told Reuters in an interview.

Tarhouni credits the heroism of ordinary Libyans for the fact that the industry is returning to normal faster than expected. But the sacrifice will come to nothing if oil firms are not prepared to send foreign workers back.

...


http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7LK5GG20111026?sp=true

[pinboy3niner]

189. Police jailed in killing that sparked Egypt revolt

AP – 33 mins ago


CAIRO (AP) — The lawyer of a young Egyptian man whose killing inspired the country's uprising says a court has convicted two policemen of beating him to death and sentenced them to seven years in prison.

Khaled Said's family and witnesses accuse police of torturing and beating Said to death after an argument at an Alexandria Internet cafe in June 2010. Photos showed his body badly disfigured and his face bloodied.

Police claimed the 28-year-old choked on a packet of drugs he swallowed as they approached, a finding contested in recent forensic reports that showed the packet was forced into his mouth.

Lawyer Hafiz Abu-Saada says the court convicted the two on Wednesday of manslaughter, rejecting the more serious charge of murder.

...


http://news.yahoo.com/police-jailed-killing-sparked-egypt-revolt-140241149.html

[pinboy3niner]

190. Libyan UN envoy: Gadhafi died of wounds sustained earlier; no NTC soldier shot him after capture

From breakingnews.com:

Libyan UN envoy: Gadhafi died of wounds sustained earlier; no NTC soldier shot him after capture - Reuters

1:47PM GMT Oct 26, 2011

The 2-paragraph Reuters report is here:
http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFN1E79P0SC20111026

[pinboy3niner]

191. South African mercenaries stuck in Libya: reports

Source: Global Post

South African mercenaries, said to have been contracted to help Muammar Gaddafi escape from Sirte, remain stranded in Libya, according to Afrikaans media reports.

Erin Conway-Smith
October 26, 2011 09:29


JOHANNESBURG, South Africa — South African mercenaries are said to be stuck in Libya following a failed bid last week to help Muammar Gaddafi's convoy escape Sirte, according to reports.

Afrikaans-language newspaper Rapport said South African and Libyan officials were investigating reports that at least 19 mercenaries, and as many as 50, had been contracted to provide an armed escort for Gaddafi, in an operation that one alleged mercenary described as a "huge failure."

The plan was to transport Gaddafi to Niger, according to Rapport. But NATO launched air strikes on the convoy as it left Sirte, followed by attacks on the ground by National Transitional Council fighters. Gaddafi fled to the water drain were he was soon found.

The team of South Africans is reported to have scattered in the chaos, and some are said to have been injured.

...


http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/africa/111026/south-african-mercenaries-libya-sirte-escort-gaddafi-convoy

[tabatha]

199. Nineteen South Africans were contracted

Nineteen South Africans were contracted to help former Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi escape to Niger and two of them died in the process, the Rapport newspaper reported on Sunday.

However, the Department of International Relations and Cooperation has distanced itself from the newspaper report, saying there was no way of verifying it "independently".

"As far as we are concerned, they remain rumours for now. They wouldn't have gone through official channels so we've got no way of independently verifying these allegations," said spokesperson Clayson Monyela.

In an interview with Rapport, one of the men, Danie Odendaal, who was being treated in a North African hospital, told the newspaper that the South Africans had been hired by a number of private security companies.

He described their efforts to evacuate Gaddafi from his home town of Sirte in Libya as a "massive failure".

Odendaal and four other South Africans were apparently in a Jeep which raced out of Sirte in the Gaddafi convoy.

He told the newspaper, "We all believed they wanted to get him out " but the Nato-forces opened fire on the convoy from the air.

Libyan soldiers then descended on the convoy. Gaddafi and a couple of his minders fled into a storm water drain where he was later found. The mercenaries scattered.

Odendaal told Rapport that the Libyans were mindful not to shoot the foreigners and helped him to flee.

http://mg.co.za/article/2011-10-23-report-south-africans-hired-to-help-gadaffi-escape

[pinboy3niner]

192. UPDATE 1 - Gaddafi son, intelligence chief want to surrender to ICC

Wed Oct 26, 2011 3:35pm GMT


ABU DHABI Oct 26 (Reuters) - Muammar Gaddafi's fugitive son Saif al-Islam and former intelligence chief Abdullah al-Senussi are proposing to hand themselves into the International Criminal Court in The Hague, a senior Libyan military official with the National Transitional Council said on Wednesday.

"They are proposing a way to hand themselves over to The Hague," Abdel Majid Mlegta told Reuters from Libya.

...


They had concluded that it was not safe for them to remain in Libya, to go to Algeria, or to cross into Niger, where one of Gaddafi's sons is already sheltering. Other family members are in Algeria.

...


http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7LQ47020111026

[ellisonz]

201. Probably for the better...

Put the rat droppings on trial for the whole word to watch!

[tabatha]

202. Another false rumor from Reuters!!!

[pinboy3niner]

193. Syria opposition strikes as Arab League holds talks

Posted in LBN by pampango:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x5038595

[pinboy3niner]

194. Tunisia's election sets high bar for Arab Spring

By PAUL SCHEMM - Associated Press | AP – 19 mins ago


TUNIS, Tunisia (AP) — No matter what the results, Tunisia's landmark election was a monumental achievement in democracy that will be a tough act to follow in elections next month in Egypt and Morocco — and later, in Libya.

In just five months, an independent Tunisian commission organized the first free elections in this North African nation's history. The ballot attracted 80 parties offering candidates, drew a massive turnout by impassioned voters and was effusively praised by international observers.

"I have observed 59 elections in the last 15 years, many of them in old democracies ... and never have I seen a country able to realize such an election in a fair, free and dignified way," said Andreas Gross, a Swiss parliamentarian and the head of the observer delegation for the Council of Europe. "I was elected in Switzerland on the same day in elections that were not much better than here."

Tunisia's success, however hard to replicate, is a milestone for the Arab Spring, the wave of popular uprisings across North Africa and the Middle East that have overthrown long-serving leaders and are changing the face of the region.

...


http://news.yahoo.com/tunisias-election-sets-high-bar-arab-spring-153629697.html

[pinboy3niner]

196. Sudan armed Libya's former rebels - Bashir

Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:30pm GMT


KHARTOUM Oct 26 (Reuters) - Sudan gave weapons, ammunition and other assistance to the former Libyan rebels who overthrew Muammar Gaddafi, a response to the slain leader's support for Sudan's own insurgencies, President Omar al-Bashir said on Wednesday.

Sudan has accused Gaddafi -- who was killed outside his hometown Sirte this month -- of supporting rebellions in its western Darfur region and in South Sudan, which declared independence in July.

...


"Your support, whether it was humanitarian support, or weapons or ammunition, reached Libyan revolutionaries in Misrata, in the Western Mountains, in Benghazi, in Kufra," Bashir said (to an audience in the eastern city of Kassala).

...


Darfur's rebels took up arms against Khartoum in 2003, saying they had been politically and economically marginalised. Some 300,000 people have died in the conflict, according to the United Nations.

http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7LQ4DK20111026

[pinboy3niner]

197. Libya campaign over - Nato

Source: AFP

2011-10-26 19:23


Paris - France insisted on Wednesday that Nato's campaign in Libya was over and said it was seeking other ways to help the country, after Libya's leader urged the alliance to continue operations until year's end.

"We are in a new phase," French Foreign Minister Alain Juppe said after Libya's interim leader Mustafa Abdel Jalil called on Nato to continue its Libya campaign until the end of the year.

"The military engagement, which accomplished the objectives we were pursuing, is now over. Is there another way to accompany the NTC in this period, which is still a transitional period? We will look at this," he told journalists.

...


http://www.news24.com/World/News/Libya-campaign-over-Nato-20111026

[tabatha]

198. Free Libya Wrapup parts 3,4,5,6,7.......

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/imperium/2011/08/22/three-questions-libya

[ellisonz]

200. Moammar Kadafi's family reportedly will sue NATO

Moammar Kadafi's family reportedly will sue NATO
October 26, 2011 | 11:06 am

The family of deceased Libyan dictator Moammar Kadafi reportedly plans to file a war-crimes complaint against NATO for the role they believe the international military alliance played in the former leader’s death, a lawyer for the family told Agence France-Presse news service.

Marcel Ceccaldi, a French lawyer who previously worked for Kadafi's regime and now represents his family, told AFP on Wednesday that the complaint would be filed with the International Criminal Court in the Hague because the family believes a NATO strike on Kadafi’s convoy led directly to his death.

Kadafi, who ruled Libya for more than four decades, was captured alive by revolutionary fighters on Thursday in his hometown of Surt, ending an eight-month war that cost more than 30,000 lives. The circumstances of his death remain unclear.

Libyan authorities have said he likely died in crossfire. Others, including the international rights advocacy group Human Rights Watch, believe Kadafi was executed. But Kadafi’s family is convinced that he died as a result of NATO aircraft firing on his convoy as it fled Surt, Ceccaldi told AFP.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/world_now/2011/10/moammar-kadafi-family-nato.html

[tabatha]

203. Don't have a chance.

NATO thought Gaddafi was in the southern deserts of Libya - had no idea he was in convoy.

[ellisonz]

204. Even if they did...

...wouldn't really matter.

[Swede]

205. Libya Rebels Said to Uncover Qaddafi Tie in Plot Against Iraq

The details of the plot were revealed to Iraq’s prime minister, Nuri Kamal al-Maliki, this month in a surprise visit to Baghdad by Libya’s interim leader, Mahmoud Jibril, said the official, who demanded anonymity because the matter was supposed to be confidential. This week, Iraqi security forces responded, arresting more than 200 suspects in connection with the plot.

The looted ruins of Colonel Qaddafi’s intelligence headquarters in Tripoli have revealed many secrets. The trove has uncovered ties between the Libyan strongman and the C.I.A. and shed light on negotiations between Chinese arms dealers and Libyan officials during the course of the uprising, an embarrassment to officials in Beijing.

But here in Iraq, the records of Colonel Qaddafi’s plot had special resonance. The Iraqi news media celebrated Colonel Qaddafi’s death last week. But the news that the colonel may have been backing a Baathist-led coup added another layer of intrigue just as Iraq was digesting the weekend news that President Obama had announced that the last American soldier would leave by the end of the year. Some suggested that it was a fiction spread only to allow for the arrests of Sunnis, a reflection of the fragile sectarian tensions.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/27/world/middleeast/libya-rebels-said-to-find-qaddafi-tie-in-plot-against-iraq.html

[Swede]

206. Sudan armed Libyan rebels, says President Bashir

Sudanese President Omar al-Bashir says his country gave military support to the Libyan rebels who overthrew Col Muammar Gaddafi.

In a speech broadcast live on state television, Mr Bashir said the move was in response to Col Gaddafi's support for Sudanese rebels three years ago.

Sudan and Libya have had a complicated and frequently antagonistic relationship for many years.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-15471734

[pinboy3niner]

207. New alliance to back Libya, replacing NATO--Qatar

Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:28pm GMT


DOHA Oct 26 (Reuters) - Qatar's top general said on Wednesday that Western countries had proposed setting up a new alliance headed by Qatar to support Libya after NATO ends its mission in the North African country.

He was speaking after NATO postponed until later this week a meeting that had been expected to formalise a decision to end its Libya mission at the end of the month after Libyan officials called for it to be kept going longer.

"After it became clear that NATO has a vision to withdraw at a certain point, Libya's friends from the Western countries have proposed this idea of setting up a new alliance to continue supporting Libya," Qatar's Chief of Staff, Major-General Hamad bin Ali al-Attiyah, said in remarks carried by Al Jazeera television.

"And they have asked that it be headed by Qatar because Qatar is a friend of theirs and a close friend of Libya," he added without giving further details.

...


http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7LQ4V620111026

[pinboy3niner]

208. UN to end mandate for NATO military operations in Libya

Thu Oct 27, 2011 5:27am GMT

• UN authorization to lapse at 11:59 p.m. on Oct. 31

• Libya asks UN council not to end NATO mandate yet


By Louis Charbonneau


UNITED NATIONS, Oct 27 (Reuters) - The U.N. Security Council plans on Thursday to end its authorization for a 7-month-old NATO military operation in Libya that led to the ouster and death of Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi.

The plan to cancel the mandate comes despite a request from Libya's interim government for the Security Council to wait until the National Transitional Council makes a decision on whether it wants NATO to help it secure its borders.

The 15-nation council will meet at 10:00 a.m. EDT (1400 GMT) to vote on a British-drafted resolution, obtained by Reuters, that would terminate the U.N. mandate which set the no-fly zone over Libya and permitted foreign military forces to use "all necessary measures" to protect Libyan civilians.

If the resolution is approved, as expected, the U.N. mandate would lapse Oct. 31 at 11:59 p.m. Libyan time (2159 GMT).

...


Western diplomats . . . said issues the NTC had suggested it would like NATO to help with, including border security, fell outside the U.N. mandate to protect civilians and enforce a no-fly zone.

The resolution does not lift the arms embargo or other U.N. sanctions on Libya that have been in place for half a year.

...


http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFN1E79Q00J20111027?sp=true

[pinboy3niner]

209. South African men in Libya 'helping Gaddafi's son'

2011-10-27 09:01

Erika Gibson, Beeld


Johannesburg - Elements of the group of South Africans allegedly involved in the late Muammar Gaddafi's failed escape attempt last week are apparently still taking care of one of Gaddafi's sons, Saif al-Islam.

...


The South Africans were contracted by a company that apparently maintained close ties with Gaddafi.

Planes are at the ready at Lanseria airport, as well as in Sharjah in the United Arab Emirates, to go and help fly the South Africans, and presumably also Al-Islam, out of Libya when it becomes possible to do so, according to information obtained by Beeld.

...


The South African company was allegedly involved in various contracts in Iraq at the time, but later moved its headquarters overseas, presumably to escape any possible prosecution in South Africa.

About eight weeks ago, a group of South Africans were allegedly also involved in moving a large quantity of Gaddafi’s assets, including gold, foreign currency and diamonds, to a bank in Niamey, Niger.

...


http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/SA-men-in-Libya-helping-Gaddafis-son-20111027

[pinboy3niner]

210. Official: Gadhafi’s intelligence chief now in Niger, joining 30 already seeking refuge there

By Associated Press, Published: October 26


DAKAR, Senegal — Moammar Gadhafi’s intelligence chief, who is wanted by the International Criminal Court, has slipped into the desert nation of Niger and is hiding in the expanse of dunes at the Niger-Algeria border, a Niger presidential adviser said late Wednesday.

Abdullah al-Senoussi entered Niger several days ago in a convoy piloted by Tuaregs, the traditional desert dwellers who remained fiercely loyal to Gadhafi until the end, the adviser, who could not be named because of the sensitivity of the matter, told The Associated Press by telephone from Niger.

...


“Senoussi? He’s already in Niger, but he’s not near the towns,” the official said. “Where is he headed? We don’t have any details on that. In any case, he can’t come to the towns (without getting caught). He entered sometime ago — it’s been a few days. He’s hiding. His driver? Other Tuaregs,” he said. “They (Senoussi and Seif al-Islam) are traveling in separate convoys.”

The information was confirmed by Serge Hiltron, owner of Radio Nomad, a radio station operating in Niger’s north, a region dominated by the Tuaregs.

“It’s like the story of the cat and the mouse, and we’re waiting for him (al-Senoussi) to come out of his hole. He can’t stay there forever,” Hiltron said by telephone from the northern town of Agadez. “For them (al-Senoussi and Seif al-Islam) the area that is safest is this buffer zone between Algeria, Libya and Niger — it’s the most secure. But they can’t stay there forever. With the protection of the Tuaregs they can last a while though.”

...


http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle-east/official-gadhafis-intelligence-chief-now-in-niger-joining-30-already-seeking-refuge-there/2011/10/26/gIQAnBoMJM_story.html

[pinboy3niner]

211. Gaddafi son seeks aircraft to surrender - NTC source

Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:29am GMT

By Samia Nakhoul


DUBAI Oct 27 (Reuters) - Muammar Gaddafi's fugitive son Saif al-Islam wants an aircraft to take him out of Libya's southern desert so he can turn himself in to The Hague war crimes court, a source with Libya's National Transitional Council said on Thursday.

A fearful Saif al-Islam, 39, went on the run at about the time his father met a grisly death a week ago, apparently at the hands of vengeful Libyan fighters. He has indicated he is ready to surrender to justice, as has ex-intelligence chief Abdullah al-Senussi, NTC officials have said.

Both men are the subject of arrest warrants from the International Criminal Court, where officials have not been able to confirm any approach. They face charges of crimes against humanity for their response to February's uprising.

Conflicting reports of Saif al-Islam's whereabouts have circulated since he vanished from the Gaddafi stronghold of Bani Walid in the north of the country, with some accounts putting him, and Senussi, in Niger.

...


The source said Saif al-Islam wanted the involvement of a third country -- possibly Algeria or Tunisia -- in a deal to get him to The Hague. "He wants to be sent an aircraft," the source said by telephone from Libya. "He wants assurances."

...


http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7LR26B20111027?sp=true

[ellisonz]

222. He's not smiling now.

;-)

[pinboy3niner]

212. Arab Spring activists win Sakharov prize

AFP – 27 mins ago


Five Arab Spring activists have won the European parliament's Sakharov prize awarded to campaigners for freedom, a parliamentary source said Thursday.

The laureats are Mohamed Bouazizi of Tunisia, awarded posthumously, Egyptian militant Asmaa Mahfouz, Libyan dissident Ahmed al-Zubair Ahmed al-Sanusi, Syrian lawyer Razan Zeitouneh and Syrian cartoonist Ali Farzat, the source added.

The Arab Spring revolutions were sparked by Bouazizi, who set himself alight on December 17 in the city of Sidi Bouzid and died in hospital two weeks later.

...


Libyan dissident al-Sanusi, 77, spent 31 years behind bars for opposing Moamer Kadhafi's regime.

...


http://news.yahoo.com/arab-spring-activists-win-sakharov-prize-091456970.html

[pinboy3niner]

213. Tunisia frees former Libyan prime minister - lawyer

Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:52am GMT

TUNIS Oct 27 (Reuters) - A Tunisian court has freed former Libyan prime minister Al-Baghdadi Ali al-Mahmoudi despite an extradition request from Libyan authorities, his lawyer said on Thursday.

"The court ruled to free him from prison," Mabrouk Korchid told Reuters. Confirming the report, a judicial source said al-Mahmoudi was now a free man.

Mahmoudi fled Libya to neighbouring Tunisia soon after the rule of Muammar Gaddafi collapsed in August and had gone on hunger strike in protest against his possible extradition.

...


http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7LR38Y20111027

[pinboy3niner]

214. Syrian opposition names tomorrow's protest 'The Friday of the No-Fly Zone'

From The Guardian's Live Blog:

As reports of the uprising becoming more violent continue, the Syrian opposition is naming tomorrow's protest "the Friday of the no-fly zone" (see below). They are calling for the same protection that was offered to Gaddafi's opponents in Libya. Friday has become the traditional day of protest during the Arab spring, with each Friday in Syria given a different title.



http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/middle-east-live/2011/oct/27/libya-syria-middle-east-unrest-live#block-9

[pinboy3niner]

215. Libyans wounded in fighting could be treated in Massachusetts

Source: Boston Globe

10/27/2011 12:20 AM

By Travis Andersen, Globe Staff


The Boston-based Spaulding Rehabilitation Network is in talks with the US Department of State on whether it will treat Libyans who were wounded during the fighting between rebel forces and those loyal to former dictator Moammar Khadafy, officials said tonight.

Spaulding spokesman Timothy Sullivan said in a phone interview that the network, which has facilities in several locations including Boston, Salem, and Medford, is in talks with the State Department to possibly provide care for Libyans with unspecified injuries.

He said the network should know within 48 hours whether it will receive any Libyan nationals and will issue a statement when more details become available.

Sullivan could not say how many Libyans may be treated in Massachusetts, whether or not they fought for the opposition, or which specific care they need.

...


A State Department official said tonight that American officials were awaiting approval as early as Thursday for several military airlift flights out of Libya, with at least one bound for Massachusetts.

...


http://www.boston.com/Boston/metrodesk/2011/10/libyans-wounded-fighting-could-treated-bay-state/GpJqokZDNssqdVR9YDPdzM/index.html

[pinboy3niner]

216. An official in Niger says Gadhafi's intelligence chief is in Mali; Gadhafi's son on way - @AP

On Twitter and breakingnews.com:

An official in Niger says Gadhafi's intelligence chief is in Mali; Gadhafi's son on way - @AP

1:25PM GMT Oct 27, 2011

[pinboy3niner]

217. Libya's National Transitional Council say Moammer Gadhafi's killers will be brought to trial

From breakingnews.com:

Libya's National Transitional Council say Moammer Gadhafi's killers will be brought to trial - Al Arabiya TV via Reuters

1:16PM GMT Oct 27, 2011

[pinboy3niner]

218. UN ends Libya military mandate (Oct. 31 is last day)

By Tim Witcher | AFP – 7 mins ago


The UN Security Council on Thursday unanimously voted to end the mandate for international military action in Libya, ending another chapter in the war against Moamer Kadhafi's regime.

...


A Security Council resolution ordered the end of the authorization for a no-fly zone and action to protect civilians from 11:59 pm Libyan time (2159 GMT) on October 31.

Following the vote, NATO's decision-making body, the North Atlantic Council, is to meet on Friday in Brussels to formally declare an end to its seven-month-old air war.

Security Council Resolution 2016 also eased an international arms embargo so that the NTC can acquire weapons and equipment for its national security.

...


http://news.yahoo.com/nato-weighs-role-post-kadhafi-libya-130638266.html

[Iterate]

219. Playing it out - The Amazigh campfire song

Amazigh Libyan Revolutionaries Sing Around Campfire
http://youtu.be/ilv7PAK1EcU

My heartfelt thanks, love, and appreciation to Josh for hosting/collating/posting and all who contributed here over the months. No one can know how important it was. The collaboration was a phenomena in itself.

Like all good things that humans do, it was an act of faith in a future, whether it be the success of the Revolution when it seemed impossible, a new Libyan nation, or a crumb of insight for some future historian or student.

The story will always be incomplete,

"...long live free Libya."

[tabatha]

220. And playing it in, as the story continues

A group of young Libyans launched the country's first news, talk and music radio show, broadcast in English. "The Free Talk Show" aired its first broadcast at the beginning of October, shortly after the fall of Tripoli to revolutionary forces.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/libyas-first-english-radio-show-launches/2011/10/27/gIQARjIMNM_video.html

(I have no words other than thanks; just that this was a haven, for the most part, of news, news and news.)

[tabatha]

221. What the Arab papers say

Oct 28th 2011, 12:44 by The Economist online

THE death of Muammar Qaddafi marked the end of an era in Libya. After 42 years of his rule, Libya's new rulers have declared their liberation and must now begin rebuilding their country. A week on, we look at what the Arab papers have been saying about the demise of the Libyan dictator.

Hussein Rawashdeh in the Jordanian independent daily, Addustour, writes:

The Libyan people have regained a sense of their own leadership of the nation and the state. They are no longer a lifeless body (as their "leader" of more than forty years described them). When the leader's spirit left his body, it secured a new birth for Libyans, urging them toward freedom, dignity and independence.


Sataa Noureddine in another Jordanian paper, As-Safir, examines Colonel Qaddafi's death in the context of Tunisia's elections:

That the Tunisian people had realised their destiny in their successful elections would have been a painful experience for Qaddafi. It seems likely that he did not want live through it: to see the Tunisian revolution triumph and prove that nation and society were and will remain stronger than tyranny. And just knowing that there was a firmly planted "Tunisian model" that would cross into Libya, expressed through the slogans of that revolution and its shouts and demands... This alone would have spurred Libyans to leave their homes once again to prove that they are not "rats", that they would accept nothing less than the removal of the scandal of over four decades of Qaddafi’s dictatorship.
An editorial in an Egyptian daily Al-Ahram opines:

As if Saddam Hussein’s hole were not a tough enough message to Arab tyrants, along comes Qaddafi’s drainage pipe, repeating the message again: history does not stop for idiots who have forgotten that their people have learned and understood what the rest of the world holds dear. And so, Qaddafi: when you provoked these people, it took only days and it spread like wildfire. Will the rest of the rulers who did not go down into the pit benefit from this lesson, or will they repeat the same story with their own people?


Mohamed al-Ashhab in the Saudi-owned pan-Arab newspaper, al-Hayat argues:

It is a paradox that the man who filled his national experiments with the rhetoric of national unity ultimately failed as a unionist. Before the collapse of his regime, Qaddafi essentially abolished the concept of Libya's unity, seeking to replace it with a new kind of non-religious sectarianism, in which loyalty to the regime replaced the old religious loyalties. Qaddafi's inability to replace the old tribal sectarianism with loyalty to the state made him into an arbitrary dictator of loyalties. He could not command loyalty except from non-Libyans (mercenaries) and thus undermined his own sovereignty.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/newsbook/2011/10/libya-0

[pinboy3niner]

223. Kiwi ex-SAS soldiers protecting Gaddafi's son

MICHAEL FIELD
Last updated 15:18 30/10/2011


Former New Zealand special forces soldiers helped protect Colonel Muammar Gaddafi's son Saadi flee Libya as Tripoli was falling to anti-Gaddafi rebels, a former Australian soldier has told Canada's National Post.

Gary Peters, president of Can/Aus Security & Investigations International Inc, was Saadi Gaddafi's long-time bodyguard and admitted he was part of a team that drove the late dictator's third son across Libya's southern border to Niger.

He said the team came from Australia, New Zealand, Iraq and Russia, all former special forces' members.

He said they had planned to take Saadi out of the country on a day they had heard the Niger border would not be patrolled, but they could not wait.

The convoy was ambushed after it had crossed back into Libya and Peters was shot. He returned to Canada last month, bleeding heavily from an untreated bullet wound to his left shoulder.

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More: http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/africa/5877931/Kiwi-ex-SAS-soldiers-protecting-Gaddafis-son

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224. ICC's Ocampo: "substantial evidence" against Gaddafi son

Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:01am GMT

BEIJING Oct 30 (Reuters) - The prosecutor for the International Criminal Court (ICC) said on Sunday he has "substantial evidence" that Saif al-Islam Gaddafi, son of Libya's toppled leader, was involved in organising attacks on civilians and hiring mercenaries.

Luis Moreno-Ocampo also said he met Saif al-Islam several years ago, and Saif al-Islam had backed the ICC's efforts to arrest Sudanese President Omar al-Bashir over alleged genocide and other crimes in Darfur.

"We have a witness who explained how Saif was involved with the planning of the attacks against civilians, including in particular the hiring of core mercenaries from different countries and the transport of them, and also the financial aspects he was covering," Moreno-Ocampo told Reuters in Beijing, where he was attending an academic conference.

Moreno-Ocampo then clarified that he meant he had multiple witnesses, and not just one.

http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL4E7LU03A20111030

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225. Syria's Assad says intervention will burn region

By BASSEM MROUE - Associated Press | AP – 1 hr 24 mins ago


BEIRUT (AP) — Western military intervention in Syria will lead to an "earthquake" that "would burn the whole region," Syrian President Bashar Assad warned in remarks published Sunday, following growing calls from anti-regime protesters for a no-fly zone over the country.

In an interview with Britain's Sunday Telegraph, Assad also said that outside intervention against his regime will cause "another Afghanistan." The comments appeared to reflect the Syrian regime's increasing concern about foreign intervention in the country's crisis after the recent death of Libyan dictator Moammar Gadhafi, who was toppled by a popular uprising backed by NATO airstrikes.

Syrian opposition leaders have not called for an armed uprising like the one in Libya and have for the most part opposed foreign intervention. In addition, the U.S. and its allies have shown little appetite for intervening in another Arab nation in turmoil.

But with the 7-month-old revolt against Assad stalemated, some Syrian protesters have begun calling for a no-fly zone over the country because of fears the regime might use its air force now that army defectors are becoming more active in fighting the security forces.

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http://news.yahoo.com/syrias-assad-says-intervention-burn-region-081951346.html

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226. 'Libya won't become a strict Islamist state'--BHL

Bernard-Henri Levi in live interview with CNN's Fareed Zakaria this morning.

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227. Ex-Libyan PM's release from jail put on hold

Sun Oct 30, 2011 2:43pm GMT


TUNIS Oct 30 (Reuters) - A former Libyan prime minister is still in a Tunisian jail despite a judge's order to release him because Libya's new leaders have lodged a fresh request to have him extradited, his lawyer said.

Al-Baghdadi Ali al-Mahmoudi, prime minister under former Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi, has been in detention since fleeing from Libya into neighbouring Tunisia soon after Gaddafi's rule collapsed in August.

"Mahmoudi is still in prison," his lawyer, Mabrouk Korchid, told Reuters. "They have submitted a new arrest warrant despite the court decision to free him."
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http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7LU0EF20111030