Bush won

[Prism]

I can't help but think that the neoconservative vision for American intervention around the world should be taking victory laps during the Obama administration. Certainly, the Republicans will never ever give President Obama credit for a single thing, but what crystallizes my thinking on this is how Democrats themselves attempt to frame narratives.

Think on these things:

- President Obama's "foreign policy chops" are now determined in the media and the political world by the people he has killed and not by the peaces he has forged. Is that not the Democratic philosophy and platform warped in a funhouse mirror?

- This administration has cemented the shaky Bushian assertion that the United States can kill anyone at any time in any country for any secretive national security purpose.

- Innocent deaths in drone wars do not matter. They are beneath even simple commentary. To bring them up is to risk apostasy.

- Congress is a quaint instrument of dysfunctional representative government. A strong President wages war when and where he chooses. To question this is to exhibit disloyalty.

These are but four points of many. But they are planks I had grown used to hearing from the right-wing for so long. But now they are basic Democratic platforms.

Bush won. The Democrats have adopted his attitudes, his acts, his approaches. We have internalized the neoconservative philosophy and transformed it into a moral good as long as it serves the partisan interests of a Democratic president.

Yes, I will vote for Obama over any Republican yahoo any day. But, history is going to condemn us for this. We've bought in and sold out for a little bit of temporary power. We might get a victory next year, but the textbooks of our grandchildren will wonder just what the fuck was wrong with us.

[Bonobo]

1. Oh my god, Prism. Yes! I wanted to write this very OP. Thank you.

[malaise]

8. All US foreign policy is the same

All American Presidents are hawks when it comes to foreign policy.

[Bonobo]

9. Jimmy Carter didn't act like this and I don't accept that it HAS to be this way.

Or...maybe I do. Maybe that is why I gave up on the US.

[bigtree]

10. funny you should say that

It is the 'Carter Doctrine' that has kept the U.S. bogged down defending the 'flow of oil' in the Persian Gulf -- which the Bushes were just amplifying with their military interventions in Iraq.


"Let our position be absolutely he clear," he said in his State of the Union address on January 23, 1980. "An attempt by any outside force to gain control of the Persian Gulf region will be regarded as an assault on the vital interests of the United States of America, and such an assault will be repelled by any means necessary, including military force."

http://www.jimmycarterlibrary.org/documents/speeches/su80jec.phtml

[Bonobo]

11. I don't think it is realistic to pretend that THAT statement is what caused the US

to be bogged down.

The statement by President Carter was merely a statement, a signal, strong talk in lieu of the kind of military action that we have seen SINCE his time.

Do not lay this at the feet of the only President since Vietnam NOT to be a warmonger.

[bigtree]

12. well, I do.

President Carter created a new military body, the Rapid Deployment Joint Task Force (RDJTF), to undertake operations in the region. He also expanded the U.S. naval presence in the Gulf and acquired new basing facilities in the wider region. Carter authorized covert operations in Afghanistan to drive the Soviets out of the country. This effort eventually involved U.S. support for Osama bin Laden and other Islamic extremists . . .

[Starry Messenger]

2. k&r

[justiceischeap]

3. The whole political spectrum seems to have shifted towards the right

I don't consider Obama a Democrat but a liberal Republican but because the parties have shifted so far to the right, he is now considered a Democrat (as are other politicians that not too long ago would have been considered liberal/moderate Repubs but are now Blue Dog Dems). That's why we have so many Dems voting against Dem policies because they are in reality Republicans at heart.

The system is beyond broken and the only way to fix it at this point is to fire everyone on a national level, make a campaign finance constitutional amendment and start over. Also create legislation that puts term limits on all national office holders and finally, fire all the lobbyists as well. That would be a good start, IMO, to get things back on track.

[Atman]

4. No, not "the whole political spectrum." Mostly just the power in Washington.

The nation's population largely still supports Democratic policies and ideals. But the wealth and power has shifted so heavily to the right, including (and especially) the complicit media and unregulated banking system, that it is not difficult to think the country has shifted to the right. THE PEOPLE are the country, and we've allowed it to slip from our grasp -- again, via the clever and sinister machinations of a very small minority. It is up to the people to take the power back.

[Bonobo]

6. The point is that even "Democrats" have bought into the Republican world view.

These days it is common to even hear Rachel Maddow bragging about how great Obama is in fighting the "terrorists". The term, "terrorist" itself goes completely unexamined as do the extent to which the US' own actions must incite terror in the population of Yemen, Pakistan, Afghanistan. After all, what could be more terrifying than knowing that an unmanned drone could swoop in from nowhere and fire a missile at you if you are holding a farming implement that they mistake for a weapon, etc.

The OP has nailed it on the head.

[justiceischeap]

17. Which is what I was referring to

I know the majority of American's tend to be more liberal/Democratic but we, apparently, aren't the ones with the power. We should be the ones with the power but we aren't.

[lunatica]

5. And thus the raison d'etre of Occupy Wall Street

Bush hasn't won. The corruption is widespread.

This has been happening long before Bush came to office. As a matter of fact the very fact that the Supreme Court selected Bush shows the corruption was already systemic. Elections have simply passed power from one party to another. Even if Democrats were all able to fight the corruption it's just a matter of time before Republicans take over again and undermine the system. I've seen this clearly since Carter lost because of the Iranian hostage situation and Reagan took office wrapped in Hollywood worthy American flag Uber Patriotic fervor propaganda.

It's just that the illegal and nefarious secrets have been exposed lately for all of us to plainly see if we just open our eyes.

[bigtree]

7. maybe you can tell me

. . .when was there ever a time where the Democratic party collectively stood against any of the issues you raised? The struggle to elect a majority of progressive legislators continues -- even set back a bit. I mean, most of these criticisms assume there is some candidate, some nominee, who had achieved, or has the potential to transform the political and legislative landscape to make a significant difference in how we approach issues of military engagements abroad.

I'm not sure Obama doesn't have his own view of the use of our military forces and power that only he is to blame for. I wouldn't be so sure he's just bending to some Bushian script -- Bush's military leadership still in place, perhaps. I think he came into office with approaches he's chosen to pursue. An Obama doctrine is emerging.

In his view, I believe, he sees ALL aspects of our military forces as viable and appropriate in different circumstances. There haven't been many limitations on his use of those military options, except, maybe, in the degree he exercises those objectionable strategies his predecessor employed.

I certainly agree with your points about this president and this administration, but I must have missed the point where the political equation was sufficient to move our institutions and our policies away from our government's tradition of reflexive militarism. I guess I never saw the point where our Democratic party collectively opposed drones, assassinations of our perceived enemies abroad, or had any intention at all of accepting their constitutional responsibility and primacy in declaring war; opting instead to follow behind the President and gripe.

Where was I when our party collectively took responsibility for these things?

At any rate, I do think it matters to what degree the President adopts the tactics or machinations of the past administration, and his goals aren't an unimportant qualifier when judging his actions against those of Bush and his ilk. His priorities should be measured right along with these other points you've raised about tactics and strategy.

[Prism]

26. I think the finest illustration of Democratic opposition occurs during Republican administrations

When we look at issues like extraordinary rendition, Guantanamo, the collateral damage of drone warfare, etc., many Democratic lawmakers stood with the activists in condemning the militaristic excesses of the Bush administration. When executive prerogatives over-crept constitutional and Congressional restraints, the objections were fierce, rapid, and unending. Candidate Obama certainly made great hay over the constitutional dubiousness of the executive powers Bush accrued to himself over eight years.

But once a Democrat entered the White House, poof, all of those objections withered away.

It's troubling.

[Odin2005]

13. K&R

[Bonobo]

14. Kick. nt

[Township75]

15. Unfortunately, Bush Won doesn't matter to progressives as long as a Dem is making it happen.

When was the last time the left had a significant protest against drone strikes, killing civilians, and unchecked military spending and contractor spending? There were no lack of protests and outrage when Bush was doing this, but once our guy got in, these things went away.

I don't even post about drone strikes anymore.

And this isn't a criticism of you, I'm just using it as evidence of why I think nothing will change:
"Yes, I will vote for Obama over any Republican yahoo any day. But, history is going to condemn us for this."

I am in this boat too. That is why I have come to realize it doesn't make sense to join OWS or war protests. It is only a self esteem booster and something for us to do...to make us feel good about ourselves. Secretly, we all want OWS to become a get out the vote effort for Dems, who won't change anything, but will rather protect the status quo while publicly attacking it.

Those future generations will look at us and think what a bunch of phonys.

[Bonobo]

16. It's really sad.

But I believed enough in my convictions to say fuck you to America and soon I will be asking the US to shove their passport and their citizenship up their ass.

[Township75]

19. Are you expecting to be granted citizenship in another country soon, or just starting the process?

If the former, do you mind sharing where to? My guess is Canada, but I have heard it isn't easy to immigrate into Canada from the US...maybe you have a different experience???

[Bonobo]

20. Japan.

I have almost all my documents together and will be making my application within the next month or so. I should be a citizen within a year from then.

To gain Japanese citizen, you must have lived here for 5 years more or less consecutively or 1 year if married to a Japanese national.

You must also prove that you can support yourself and you must give up citizenship of other countries. America embassy tries to tell you you don't need to, but if you ask for Japanese citizenship, you promise to do so.

[Atman]

22. I guess I'm not sure what the alternative is.

It is bad enough with Obama carrying on so many of BushCo's policies. But they want to gut EVERYTHING, and they'll do it the moment they control the Senate, in addition to further skewing the balance of power in the Supreme Court. I've no doubt things could be drastically worse if we allow the GOP to control everything again. I'm not happy with the way it is now, but we have no viable alternative. Who, Nader? Sorry, I think it's hold your nose time, and do everything possible to keep the GOP from controlling the Senate as well as the House. Even better, kick the freshman Tea Baggers out of the House and regain some control. Not that I suppose it did much good for the couple years Nancy was running things...it's the corporations, dammit!

.

[Township75]

25. I think that is the problem.

It's bad when Dems do Repub things, but it is worse when Repubs do the same Repub things. That is the logic we have to use to justify voting for Obama and some Dems.

There would be an alternative if we actually had primaried Obama with a real progressive like Sanders. Then we wouldn't be voting against someone just because of party, we would be voting for a candidate. The other thing is that changing the course of the Dem party from the lesser of two evils could take just one election or primary season. The TP got their candidates in over established repubs for the 2010 elections.

Unfortunately, I think most on the left are going to throw up their hands and say oh well, we can't stop the drift to the right so lets wreck OWS by making it a get out the vote effort as well as the anti war movement.

[redqueen]

24. This was proved when Clinton continued bombing Iraq.

I am stunned to see this being treated as if it's surprising or new.

[Prism]

27. Not new, but accelerating in new directions

I suppose it's the flagrancy of the acts and secretiveness that makes me feel like we're transitioning to an even worse area.

There's something off about a Commander in Chief declaring that he can kill an American citizen, and no, he doesn't have to explain himself, and no, he doesn't have to explain to us the processes and legal theories behind this assumption of power.

It comes back to that old adage "Would you want a Republican president with these powers?"

God, no. No, I would not.

[Ezlivin]

18. Without the "help" of 9/11, Bush would have been a one-term president

That event was instrumental in cowing the public, quieting the opposition and allowing the administration to push its agenda through without proper oversight. The Patriot Act was written to take advantage of the opportunity and "terror, terror, terror" was all we heard for years.

When examining the events of 9/11 it's instructive to ask "cui bono?"

[Prism]

29. And it's amazing how permanent all those temporary powers became

Once citizens surrender their rights and protections to the government, it is very, very hard to get them back.

[Itchinjim]

21. 241...

[redqueen]

23. Bush was just a tool. A puppet.

The neo-cons won, and they won long, long ago.

They won when we attacked Iraq the first time. When they sold us lies about babies and incubators and we all cheered for an unnecessary war, watching it on teeeveee like an action movie... that's when they won.

This? This is just icing on the cake.

[EFerrari]

28. I posted yesterday on twitter, Cheney won.

For the reasons you run down.

[closeupready]

30. Dick Cheney presciently stated in the last days of 2008 that Obama would embrace

the authoritarian policies which the administration of which Cheney was part had put into place, and he was sadly correct. I can't defend against that because it's turned out to be true.