I'd like to move my money... but how exactly?

[Mumblefratz]

I've been following things like the Move Your Money Project (moveyourmoneyproject.org/) and the Move Your Money campaign over on huffpo for awhile now. And while I think this is a great idea and great way to both punish the big banks for their reckless behavior as well as keep my money working locally, the big question I have is ... OK how can I really do this?

I'm not talking about my checking account since the answer to that is obvious. I've kept my checking account at my local town bank for over 20 years know.

The problem is I would also like to move my investment capital but I can't because there really is no credible place to which to move it.

I basically have a little over a million dollars primarily in long term investment grade corporate bonds from which I earn about 4%. I need the $40,000 a year in income that this generates to live. I would really like to move this money out of the hands of Morgan Stanley but I have no credible option other than another big bank/investment company. I can't afford to move it to a credit union and put it in a CD for 1% or if I'm lucky 1.5% or even put it into treasuries at 2%.

Like I said while I think the idea of moving your money is a great idea, getting even millions of people to move the few thousands of dollars in their checking accounts to their local bank is a drop in the bucket, but if you give people like me a legitimate option of moving their money you could bring the big banks to their knees in no time.

I'd really like to hear any credible suggestion as to how I could move my money yet maintain the 4% income on which I live. Anyone?

[ClassWarrior]

1. I haven't read these yet, but I spotted them here last week...

They might be helpful to you. :shrug:

Article in Good Magazine
http://www.good.is/post/a-step-by-step-guide-to-leaving-your-big-predatory-bank

A Field Guide to Closing Your Bank Account
http://fearlessrevolution.com/blog/a-field-guide-to-closing-your-bank-account.html

NGU.

[Mumblefratz]

6. Thanks for the response but ...

These are just guides on moving your checking and/or saving accounts and do not address the issue of getting a comparable return on reasonable sums of money.

[MineralMan]

2. If you have that much invested, see your financial advisor.

It's unlikely that you'll get any advice here that will be useful to you. Any advice posted here should be run past someone with experience in capital investments, since the advice you will receive is completely non-professional on DU.

This is not a financial discussion forum, and its members are more or less anonymous posters. Consult a professional with your question.

[Cirque du So-What]

7. Plus, a financial advisor may even feign being impressed

with someone flaunting their net worth. Here, not so much :eyes:

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mumblefratz]

8. Yeah, I know but ...

My financial advisor is Morgan Stanley. Not much chance of getting useful advice about moving my money away from them.

[MineralMan]

11. I can't help you. I've never dealt with investments of that size.

Your financial adviser, though, should probably not be from the place where your money is. Conflict of interest. Common sense.

As I said, you'll get no good advice on DU for this. Consult a professional who has a real name, a business card, and an office.

[Cirque du So-What]

41. OOh, it's so BIG! I don't know if I can TAKE that big, bulging portfolio all at once!

'Dear Penthouse Forum, you'll never believe what happened to me the other night...' :rofl:

[Snotcicles]

13. There was a show on Air America hosted by Marc Sussman. He seemed to have good advice

Maybe you could find and contact him.

[deaniac21]

3. Tax free muni's baby!

[Mumblefratz]

10. How do I buy and hold them without going through a big bank to do so?

[mainer]

19. I don't think you can.

We have an account in a large brokerage firm, plus an account with eSchwab, and to get Munis, we have to go through the broker.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

4. Good question, and I don't know the answer.

My own nest egg, such as it is, is mostly in CDs, which are pretty safe but they don't generate much income. Whatever dribbles of income they do produce get moved into my credit union money market account, but the CDs themselves are in a brokerage account managed by one of the Forces of Darkness. I don't know enough about this to determine what to do, and I don't want to risk losing what I need for retirement. It seems like we are all captives of the vampire squid.

[classof56]

5. I have no credible suggestions as to how you could move your money and maintain your income.

But I will say, if I had your problem I'd be a lot happier camper!

Tired Old Cynic

[FarCenter]

12. I don't see why you'd want to move

Your money really is not on deposit with Morgan Stanley. It is actually with the corporations whose bonds you have bought. Morgan Stanley's only role is to hold the securities for you in your account.

Morgan Stanley made some money from you when you purchased the bonds, either by way of commissions or from the bid/ask spread.

If you sell the bonds, Morgan Stanley will make some more money from you, either commissions or spread.

Possibly Morgan Stanley charges you an annual fee or other fees. You could investigate opening an account at a discount broker with lower fees, and then have that broker move the bonds from Morgan Stanley to the broker. This avoids the costs of selling, but, it may incurr an account closing fee from Morgan Stanley which the new broker may/may not reimburse. Note also that if you sell the bonds you will collect accrued interest as income, and you may have capital gains/losses subject to taxation.

Usually a Morgan Stanley account would also have associated MMF, checking, credit card, debit card, etc. accounts associated with their brokerage account. You would want to identify whether these auxilliary services are available and at what price at any new broker.

[Dover]

14. Have you looked into CDARS?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=114&topic_id=40915

There are also investment companies like Fidelity. But to be quite honest, I wouldn't do anything
without first seeking the advice of an INDEPENDENT financial advisor.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mainer]

16. 4% strikes me as pretty darn good in this climate

If you're uncomfortable with Morgan Stanley, you could move some of it into eSchwab and do your own online equity investing. But that would require you to be informed. I would assume you already have something in equities.

[L0oniX]

17. So you have $1,000,000 and its hard to live on 4%? Ask me if I give a damn.

Let's see here ...uhm $40k a year times X = $1,000,000 = how many more years you expect to live? WTF

:evilfrown:

[Mumblefratz]

22. Nice ...

That's the problem with this country is that the corporate oligarchy has successfully played each of us off of the other so that we don't think about the real problem which is them.

If I believed them then I'd be a teabagger convinced that I've lost "my" America to someone on welfare and food stamps instead of people like the Koch brothers.

However I don't buy it. I'm no less of a peasant than you are. I may be a *slightly* better off peasant than you but I have far more in common with someone on welfare and food stamps than I do the truly rich.

Of course the best way to further your cause is to alienate people that support the same things you do simply because you perceive them to be better off than you.

Good luck with that.

[L0oniX]

30. Good luck with your $1,000,000 retirement fund!

[Mumblefratz]

27. OK I'll die right on time just to suit you

[L0oniX]

32. Will it be a gold or platinum coffin sir?

[Cirque du So-What]

40. Have you ever seen an armored car in a funeral procession?

Me either.

[Dover]

62. Wow...grow up. And don't bother showing up at any OWS protests.

They'd boot you outta there if they heard this crap. They don't want any part of this kind of petty
"anyone who's got more than me oughta suffer for it" stuff.

You think the 99% are all at your income level? Puleeeeeeze.

[L0oniX]

81. I can't afford to show up anyway. I have to work until I die.

Oh yea ...does it make you feel better to tell someone to grow up? Still in that high school click mode?

[dawg]

74. I'm guessing he hopes to live more than 25 years.

Or do you think he's Bill Gates just because he's got ........

One Million Dollars!

[ProgressiveProfessor]

18. You could hold your bonds directly and not via a trading house

Since you have minimal activity, that should be pretty easy.

[ret5hd]

20. But doing that wouldn't give the same opportunities of telling every one about it.

[Mumblefratz]

28. I wish I could but that's not how it works.

[mainer]

21. Some of the reactions here explain why the rich hang out with the rich

Because resentment and jealousy makes it uncomfortable for them to talk to anyone else.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JuniperLea]

25. Really?

Why would someone with all that loot ask a pedestrian message board what to do with it?

I smell a rat.

[mainer]

26. maybe because he's hunting for answers he doesn't have?

Others do it too. Ask about farming. About health. About recipes. How is asking about money any different?

[JuniperLea]

34. It's rude to tell people how much money you have, just for starters...

And if this guy has the wherewithal to gather up that sum, he should have the brains to understand he's not going to get answers from passersby on the street... which is all DU really is... it's very pedestrian. I have to ask why... and some of his posts here will be deleted because he hasn't the wherewithal to get that he's being an ass.

[L0oniX]

35. OK ...a guy with $1,000,000 and can't afford a financial consultant?

[TBF]

42. lol ... you're both embarrasing yourselves. nt

[eShirl]

48. There must be a better DU subforum for this type of question than GD...

isn't there?
If not, maybe there should be...

[JuniperLea]

23. You're asking an InterTube discussion board...

What to do with your million bucks?

Sorry, I find it more than a little odd that someone would have the wherewithal to garner that level of money, but thinks it's ok to ask this stuff of a pedestrian forum?

What's your game?

[TygrBright]

29. Ten Ideas for What to Do With Your Investments on Move Your Money Day:

1. Buy membership shares in your local co-op. That would be banking co-op, food market co-op, agricultural co-op-- anything that is part of the structure of the LOCAL economy, and controlled by LOCAL people.

2. Look for a small business incubator in your area, and talk to them about setting up (or participating in-- they may already have one--) a loan program to help small business start-ups in your area.

3. Identify two or three other investors in your area and discuss the possibility of setting up a small, local, real estate venture capital program to develop and maintain affordable housing. Partner with a local nonprofit to do the management.

4. Research medium-size companies based in your area, find a couple that do business in ethical, constructive ways, and invest directly in their common or preferred stock.

5. Go online and find a Social Venture Capital/Social Venture Partners fund that looks interesting, and see what it would take to participate.

6. Ask around among friends, family, business acquaintances, etc. to see if anyone you know is trying to start or grow their own small business. Work out a deal with them.

7. Examine the Local Food Movement and consider participating by investing in some local food producers to set up CSAs and/or farm-to-restaurant supply chains.

8. Review some of the conventional Social Responsibility Funds (Franklin Templeton has some, so do a few other asset management companies) and find a couple to participate in.

9. Buy munis.

10. Buy treasuries.

helpfully,
Bright

[Mumblefratz]

31. Thanks for your honset response.

[BlueCheese]

33. We talk about the 99%.

Someone with a million dollars fairly late in life is well within the 99%.

[Mumblefratz]

38. Correct.

Do folks here *really* want to alienate other progressive folks simply because they think they're better off then they are.

The jealously expressed here for really what amounts to a paltry amount goes "beyond the pale".

Do they really want to alienate those that wish to support them and their interests?

I have too much money to be on their side? With friends like this who needs enemies?

[pipi_k]

45. Calling it "a paltry amount"

really, is sort of clueless.

OK, I'm going to try and explain why some here (including myself) find your question rather insulting.

I don't have as much money as you do. I don't think I could buy a Happy Meal on the monthly interest. But it's more than a lot of people have.

So here's what I wouldn't do. I wouldn't walk into a room full of sweatshop workers in China, each making less than 1/10th of what I have, and ask them for advice on how to deal with my money.

Nor would I be all uppity when, having mentioned how much I have, some of them told me to "fuck off".

I can't even imagine going into a place where the majority of people there don't have 1/10th what I do and calling what I have "a paltry amount". How obnoxious. How rude. How insulting.

Perhaps your question would have been better taken had you used blank spaces (like $_____ ) instead of the actual numbers...who knows...

:shrug:

[L0oniX]

49. and they have so much in common with the 60 yo guy with only 20k saved and makes 16k a year.

[dmallind]

36. I am not a pro, but here's what I have done

There is no way to get solid returns with reasonable risk completely away from big finance players, but that doesn't mean you need to give them a whole lot.

Personally I created a self-directed investment fund. You can use Fidelity, ING, Schwab, whoever you like best or hate least of the big online players. I then split up my stable income investments (which sounds like what you seek) between very stable priced Blue Chip preferred stocks, usually paying 6% or so on dividends. You don't want to buy anything much higher than call/par value, and you don't want voltility. ATT (NOT T) is my most stable, but AZN, McDonalds, even GE work well too among others - spend an hour or two checking history and dividend record along with call price/dates etc and choose your own. Remember dividends pay on par, not current price, so volatility is less risky

That way you only have to pay the banks $5 an initial trade or so and no load/maintenance. If you only seek 4% you could split say 60/40 with T bills to protect your capital even more.

Don't worry about the DU money zealots - they abuse anyone who does not join their poverty-purity "I make less than you" misery competition, and even those who do so like the guy who had the gall to say he lives on 11k a year. Can't win with that crowd - they want an excuse to hate anyone who does not have and spend exactly like they do no matter what. I have less than you too - probably always will - but I am neither jealous nor resentful nor unwilling to do the best with what I have and help others do the same if I can, with the obvious disclaimer about free advice fully acknowledged. ;)

[jwirr]

37. I do not know what to suggest but I do remember back in the 60s

many made sure their stocks were doing good things rather than supporting the junk. For instance many moved their stocks out of South Africa to show their disapproval of apartheid. Is there still such a thing as socially conscious stocks and bonds?

[ecstatic]

39. You and others became rich off of the banks' reckless behavior

I'm surprised you want to move your money.

BTW, my post is not due to resentment or jealousy. I truly find your post ironic, that's all.

[Mumblefratz]

43. Hardly.

1. Regardless of what you think a million dollars does *not* make you rich.

2. I did *not* earn my money because of speculation.

3. I earned my money working as an Electrical Engineer for 43 years and by living within my means and saving everything that I could.

4. If the response here is typical of those in the progressive movement then apparently I'm not allowed to be a progressive.

[leftstreet]

44. Oh bullshit. You're a capitalist boot-strapping bank-loving apologist. Go away

waah, waah, 'I lived within my means'

Why don't you get off your ass and invest your million in something that creates jobs

[mainer]

47. My father died a millionaire. And no, he didn't get it through banking.

He worked two jobs, one of them as a cook. 16-hours days, and he saved every penny. Got cheated out of his pension plan by his day job employer. Never went anywhere or bought anything extravagant. Nursed his old Chevy along for decades, until he couldn't drive any more. He got to be a millionaire by obsessively saving.

Yes, it's possible to be worth a million dollars without having screwed anyone. In the end, I don't think it was worth it because he dropped dead never having enjoyed that money.

[letmebefrank]

52. Wow some real jerks on here

I don't post much on here, however I spend at least an hour a day on this site and love it. These responses are really upsetting. What gives any of you the right to attack someone who's posing a very relevant question? I've spent quite a bit of time arguing with select conservative acquaintances that the OWS and "we're the 99's" movements are NOT about jealousy or class warfare, because it is ALWAYS one of their first arguments when you start to talk about income equality. But then I come here, and I see that in fact jealousy IS alive and well on this site. Really sad. For someone to have socked away $1,000,000 after working for 40+ years, that person should be applauded and not attacked. Personally I have been investing the maximum I'm allowed to - for almost 15 years, and if I too work out 40+ years - I hope - hope - that I'll too have around $1,000,000 invested somewhere, some day. The 4% calculation is one that is thrown around quite a bit in terms of what you can afford to draw down on your investments once you retire. At the fairly young age of 44, I dream of the day when I can retire, and hope to be able to live off $40,000 yearly because I worked my ass of for 40+ years to get there. However just yesterday I was diagnosed with cancer so now I'm sitting here totally unsure of what my future holds. HOW DARE you jerks attack this guy this way! Those of you who have NOT sacrificed to save for your own retirement, should not begrudge someone who has. And if living off your own hard work is not a "relevant topic" for a "progressive" site like this, then I am sadly disappointed with you all. Go ahead now and turn your attacks toward me, I can take it. But really, you're sitting here doing exactly what those on the other side accuse you of, and that is jealousy toward someone who's obviously worked hard to attain some kind of comfortable retirement. To the OP, I say "BRAVO to you sir" and it's really sad that a very day to day topic cannot be discussed among fellow progressively minded persons without being attacked or flamed for "showing off". Grow up people.

[mainer]

53. +1000

I agree. Faithfully putting away savings during a lifetime of work is to be applauded.

I doubt he took many fancy vacations or bought many fancy cars. You can't save and simultaneously act like a rich man.

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mainer]

56. "hard work" and "sacrifice" are not rightwing talking points

They are virtues worth embracing. Many older Americans understand this. By ridiculing these virtues, are you saying it's better to slack off and be a spendthrift?

[leftstreet]

63. So every member here struggling in this capitalist shithole economy simply lacks virtue?

They are slackers and spendthrifts?

You surely don't mean to suggest that

[mainer]

64. You call "hard work" and sacrifice right wing talking points

implying that the opposite must be left wing talking points. That was the impression you gave, and it doesn't give OWS a good name.

[leftstreet]

66. They're Reaganesque buzz phrases. But perhaps you didn't know that n/t

[mainer]

67. Some of us actually live it.

And for you to call it a "talking point" insults those of us who try to abide by it.

[L0oniX]

57. +1

[Dover]

61. Bravo. Plenty of people in the 99% who AREN'T poor or lower income.

Petty statements like that give OWS a bad name and bad joojoo.

[ecstatic]

80. I stand corrected. Good luck

and sorry for jumping to conclusions.

[Dover]

46. A newscast on the bank switching noted that most people doing the switching had accounts exceeding

$100,000 (or something like that, can't recall the exact amount). Their point was that the accounts being
switched were not the smaller accounts.

[Contrary1]

50. It was $75,000., I was surprised by that number...

It's definitely attracting the banks' attention.

[L0oniX]

51. I would call that bull shit.

[Dover]

59. Don't believe it? Well take it up with ABC news. Don't know why they would lie about that.

Here's a video of the broadcast. They say it's not the poor doing the switching, but people making
over $75,000. So the figure I mentioned in my previous post was NOT the value IN their accounts but the amount of their salaries they
referred to. I'm guessing lots of people have pulled their money out of 'risky' stocks and other investments and have it just
sitting around in very low interest accounts or CD's. So it's not like they are making any money off their bank
accounts. Why NOT switch?

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/ConsumerFinance/helpful-tips-switching-banks-credit-unions/story?id=14804344

[L0oniX]

76. Common sense says that those who can't keep a lot of money in their checking...

will have more of an incentive to switch to a credit union or one of the few banks that don't require a large a mount of money in a checking account. My credit union requires $200 minimum for free checking including debt card use.

[RevStPatrick]

55. Working Assets

http://www.workingassets.com/

They try to keep it clean.
Don't know if you'll get the 4% return you're looking for, but it might be worth a shot.

And for what it's worth... I think you asked a perfectly good question, and I think it's a damn shame that people here decided to shit on you. We are all in this together, and I really do wish that otherwise reasonable people would recognize this...

[Dover]

60. +1000

Exactly right. I'm sure there are plenty of people with this dilemma.

[eShirl]

58. For what it's worth, I hope you are able to find some good advice.

Being poor myself, I have no specific advice beyond the general "Don't put all your eggs in one basket."

[raccoon]

65. And you're asking this on an Internet discussion forum?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[RevStPatrick]

68. Yes, apparently he is!

And I, for one, gave him a reasonable answer.

[mainer]

69. It's DU. Where the OP probably assumed any subject can be discussed..

I guess talking about money is the third rail around here.

[raccoon]

75. Nope, if you feel like looking for it I once started a thread asking about annuities.

BUt in any case you gotta take what you hear with a keg of salt.

You never know, the poster might be a raving lunatic.

[kestrel91316]

70. Move your money. Accept lower interest. Get a job like the rest of us.

[mainer]

71. He worked for 43 years. He's had a job.

Maybe he's earned the chance to retire.

[kestrel91316]

72. If he's that old, he can afford to dip into his principal.

ETA: Of course, I happen to think he's just a lying RW troll coming in here to make struggling people feel bad, but that's just me.

[mainer]

73. Let's assume he's 65.

And he lives for 20 years. If he could plan his death promptly at 85, and he spent $50,000 a year of principal, that still wouldn't cover long-term care costs or inflation or property tax increases. It would mean dying completely penniless.

Trouble is, some people live till 90.

[H2O Man]

77. Plastics.

There's a future in plastics.

[dawg]

78. I'm sorry people have treated you rudely.

I wonder if they would feel the same way about a retired fireman with a $40,000 a year pension? Even if he had no money in the bank, he'd be richer than you. You have no guarantee for your income, and you have the burden of managing it yourself.

You're the 99%, and to your credit, I think you know it.

[Mosby]

79. If your living on the interest their are better ROIs than bonds

Like real estate, prices are great right now but pay close attemtion to the area you are buying into.

You can buy bonds directly from the treasury:
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/

and as others have mentioned you can open an account with tdameritrade, schwab etc. and bypass the major banks and brokerage firms.

[BlueCheese]

82. Though at retirement age you probably want ...

... the safety and predictability of bonds.