On OWS and DU

[nadinbrzezinski]

I detect, not surprisingly, a clear division on the site among well predictable lines. This is just an observatuion, but also reflects the party. It is never easy in any government to deal with demands like economic justice. But the division is quite to be expected...almost like clockwork.

Time will tell, but the fact that we are talking JOBS and not whatever crazy comes from Boehner, and that even republicans have moderated talk...they already had an effect, a positive one in fact.

To those of you who support this, go meet your neighbors at your local occupy...yes been there already and plan more. To those of you hoping it fails...well it happens every time. Change can and is scary, I get it. I really do. But the only rule of history is that change des happen, and we'd better pray it stays peaceful and that we can improve all our lots.

I offer you hugs because virtual handshakes are hard.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

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[Fire Walk With Me]

2. Recommending!

[robdogbucky]

3. Nadin, I think you missed the point of all the sudden jobs, et al talk

It's ELECTION SEASON!


That is why Fierce Advocate could not be bothered with the events in the Bay Area when he was actually here.

He was fundraising and couldn't be bothered.

Everything will return to normal after next November. Count on it.



Nero fiddled.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. And in this we disagree.

The shift was way too sudden.

Nor is this just the us.

[robdogbucky]

5. Sudden indeed, like around Labor Day

The official kickoff to the Prez election cycle.

Indeed in this we disagree.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. Yup, whatever

Do we have that smiley?

[WingDinger]

6. That's the stuff!

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. If we had something not two party

Both national parties would break into component factions.

[Modern_Matthew]

8. I question the motives of anyone that are not with the people. nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. It is normal dynamics in any situation like this

Some are not with the people out of honest to goodness fear, a strong emotion...others...well they fear losing what they have...it is complex, but shades of gray apply. There are those where it is clear...they tend to be part of the political elite.

[sabrina 1]

10. OWS is about the root cause of almost all the problems

that plague countries, this one included, around the world.

Money in Politics.

The loss of jobs is a direct cause of that. Laws favoring Corporations made it possible to move jobs and most of our manufacturing industry out of the country.

When Corps went Global it was to make use of the slave labor available to them in countries run by oppressive governments.

If Corps did not have a hold on our elected officials, that could have been prevented by passing laws that made it illegal for US based Corporation to go somewhere else and avoid whatever labor laws we have here, which aren't great, but there are some standards.

When we make the movement about jobs alone, the far right can and does use that to claim that the protesters are 'spoiled brats' who want things handed to them and won't pull their bootstraps and go start their own businesses, or 'look hard enought' etc.

There are so many issues that we often try to attack individually, eg, the ongoing privatization of public funded programs, SS, Medicare, Medicaid, Health Care, Education, Prisons, War where we now use private armies which transfers public money for the military into private hands. Deregulation of the Financial industry, the Media etc. The list is long.

Every democratic initiative that favors the people has been under attack since Corporate funded Candidates have taken over the government.

It's like a tree. The issues we try to deal with individually are really like the rotting branches of a tree caused by rotting roots so they are going to die no matter what chemical or other effort is used to try to save them. And that is the goal, to let all democratic, publicly funded programs die and to transfer the money that pays for them to Wall Street. So saving them can't be done, as we have seen.

That is why we did not get even a PO in the HC bill, it never was possible because there are enough Wall Street employees in Congress to make sure it would not be.

Even our police departments no longer work for the people which becomes apparent when the people's issues come into conflict with Corporate Interests.

So when you hear anyone in government talking about how our social programs 'are in trouble' and need to be cut in any way, they are working for Corporate interests. Because they do not need to be cut. They need to increased if anything.

But because we waited too long to stop the takeover of our government, we will never get any laws passed that could begin to change things. Not with the current makeup of Congress. So that is where we have to begin. If the people continue to join this movement, then the strength of their sheer numbers can overcome the billions Wall Street spends. And once we accomplish taking back our government then we can start dealing with laws that need to be changed.

One of the most important weapons in the hands of the Corporate State, is the two party system as it is constructed right now. They use it to divide the population. Eg, wars are opposed by the left when the Republicans start them. But when the Democrats are in power, the anti-war movement all but disappears even though the mar machine has not slowed down one bit. We are now in more wars than when Bush was there. He ran out of time.

The reason the OWS movement is opposed by the right is because it is supported by a majority of the people, which means that it crosses those party lines they need to keep people divided. Anyone on the Left who oppose it, recognizes that their party also has been part of the problem and desperately needs reform and they are afraid this would mean the other side will win.

The movement is scary because the bigger it grows the more the right/left lines begin to disappear and partisanship is replaced with aiming at the real problems often ignored by both parties for political reasons.

We can help the democrats by not supporting those who are taking huge amounts of money from Corporate interests and fully supporting those who are not. We have not done that in the past, we have gotten on board with people we knew were not really on our side, just so our Party could win.

Our party can still win in the OWS era if they take advantage of the huge popularity of eliminating money from our political process. And it will serve a dual purpose, create out of the DLC/Third Way Way party, a real party of the people.

But, for some, that is a scary thought.

I think it is an exciting opportunity that we have not had for as long as I've been paying attention.

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. Just focusing on one of the reasons people might fear this

Change is indeed scary.

[Fire Walk With Me]

28. People should focus on the fact that the alternative is exciting and wonderful.

Some of reports people have posted here about their time at their local #Occupation are just wonderful. It's something to embrace, and it's something waiting to embrace you back. Never mind the gubmint, this is the real deal!

[woo me with science]

20. Marvelous, marvelous summation.

Especially these parts:


One of the most important weapons in the hands of the Corporate State, is the two party system as it is constructed right now. They use it to divide the population. Eg, wars are opposed by the left when the Republicans start them. But when the Democrats are in power, the anti-war movement all but disappears even though the mar machine has not slowed down one bit. We are now in more wars than when Bush was there. He ran out of time.

The reason the OWS movement is opposed by the right is because it is supported by a majority of the people, which means that it crosses those party lines they need to keep people divided. Anyone on the Left who oppose it, recognizes that their party also has been part of the problem and desperately needs reform and they are afraid this would mean the other side will win.

The movement is scary because the bigger it grows the more the right/left lines begin to disappear and partisanship is replaced with aiming at the real problems often ignored by both parties for political reasons.



I hope you will make all or part of this an OP.

[sabrina 1]

23. Thank you maybe I will ~

:-)

[PETRUS]

29. Yeah, OWS kinda fucks with the good cop/bad cop routine. nt

[Zorra]

24. Wish I could rec this thread and this post as well. nt

[louslobbs]

25. This needs it's own thread Sabrina......well thought out and informative as usual.

Your friend,
Lou

[sabrina 1]

30. Hi Lou, thank you!

:hi:

[whatchamacallit]

32. Spot on!

as usual :)

[dtexdem]

13. What division? I see only support.

In fact, I see consensus seldom found on DU.

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. There is

But you'd ask me to violate du rules

And it is predictable lines.

[in_cog_ni_to]

16. You must have missed all the people on here last night defending the Oakland Police Dept. and

agreeing the police had a right to destroy the tent city because it was against "city rules and regulations." There are many people on DU who do not support OWS.

[WingDinger]

17. Shake your feet of the soil they may have aquired prosletyzing the heathen.

[pintobean]

15. Another pseudo-psychoanalysis of DU

done in black and white. This is awesome!

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. I realize none will stop this constant abuse

Yes, that is a personal attack.

[pintobean]

19. No, it's a comment about the post

not the poster.

[LoZoccolo]

21. Actually, your use of "another" seems to suggest a pattern of behavior.

That would be a personal attack.

I think the OP is a call-out but it's something that you should let the moderators know about.

[RainDog]

22. so what's your position ?

I haven't seen all the OWS threads here. I've been pretty busy.

Do you support the OWS movement?

[louslobbs]

26. K&R n/t

Lou

[Liberal_in_LA]

27. kick. A reasonable assessment.

[Name removed]

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