Was approached by a Tea-partier today.

[PETRUS]

He heard I spent the week at OWS in NYC. He was very polite, and began by telling me he didn't think it was appropriate to target or complain about Wall Street. I told him I'd be happy to explain my position. Anyway, the result of this encounter is that our little town in rural New Hampshire is going to convene a group to talk about economic and political issues, and I'll be given a platform. I can't wait!!! Should be interesting...

[Vincardog]

1. Good luck please make sure that you have some allies

[PETRUS]

12. I'll bring my wife.

And my German Shepherd. ;)

[A wise Man]

45. You'll need more than that my friend...

those people of the teaparty will reject anything that resembles truth. Don't trust them, bring yourself some help..."THEY ARE NUTTY AS A FRUITCAKE".....AND THEY CARRY GUNS. BE VERY CAREFUL!!!!!!

[blindpig]

47. I don't think so......

he's loaded for bear.

[vets74]

71. K.I.S.S. -- Between Wall Street and mortgage bankers they stole $7-trillion.

That was the take for 2003-2008. $2-TT of bogus mortgages. $5-TT of "AAA" scam bonds/CDS's perpetrated on pension funds and investors.

The whole country is worth $55-trillion.

Helluva smash and grab.

Now they want your townspeople to believe that the Depression of 2008 was caused by government spending and taxes on the "job creators."

(Bring a couple of pitchforks for 'em.)

-----



These ideas make a bigger hit on Republican voters than Democrats. The GOPers have been lying to these people for 30 years, maybe 40. Their one and only vote-magnet is single-issue anti-abortion foolery.



-----

Doesn't hurt that President Obama is honest, has a good family, and that they lie about him 24/7/365.

Obama vs. Limbaugh -- perfect.

[Kennah]

2. Do you think you'll need body armor?

[PETRUS]

11. Well, you know what we say around here in NH...

"Live free or die."

[Jim_Shorts]

58. Go Forth

[Bigmack]

3. Unasked-for advice....

Have numbers and charts on tagboard. They seem to have aural difficulties.

Use colored markers.

Keep it simple for the stupid.

[PETRUS]

8. Your advice is right on the money.

Fortunately, I've been collecting charts and graphs for several weeks now so I won't have to scramble to get ready.

[Kennah]

13. If there is anything you can share, I would be interested.

Going back to work on Tuesday, but at the last Job Club I attended couple of us stuck around and talked for a while. Conversation started to broach politics some, healthcare specifically, and I offered up what I felt I could comfortably slip in. Couple of others want to get together over a beer or glass of wine in the next few weeks. Guess I'm looking for an opening to perhaps move people on the issue of universal healthcare, if they don't already embrace it.

Mostly, I'm going to try and remain open to any potential. Make the case that people are out of work mostly because very wealthy people and corporations gambled and got bailed out. Make the case for OWS.

I would like to open the door on the war machine, and I can use my 10 year old to make that point. "I don't want my kids, or anyone else' kid, going off to fight in another Viet Nam. And if jobs are scarce, then isn't there something of a 'poverty draft'?"

[Skip_In_Boulder]

4. Let us know how that works out

I am always hopeful that some of these people can be reached but am usually disappointed.

[PETRUS]

5. I will definitely report back. nt

[Skip_In_Boulder]

16. Along this same vein I just got this Tweet

NaomiAKlein Naomi Klein
#angleadavis tells #OWS: rather than worrying abt reaching conservatives, organize yr natural allies and cons will feel left out. Exactly.

[snagglepuss]

6. You can't get more grassroots than that. Kudos to you.

:applause: :yourock:

[PETRUS]

9. Thanks, it was just luck. Totally unplanned.

And it's an everybody knows everybody kind of community, so that makes it easier.

(PS. Bystanders were giving me the thumbs-up.)

[snagglepuss]

26. "Money Talks Too Much". An OWS sign that has to be my favorite

slogan so far. Who but the few could deny that? Just wanted to pass it along.

[The Wizard]

38. "Money doesn't talk

it swears."
(Bob Dylan, "It's All Right Ma, I'm Only Bleeding")

[Frustratedlady]

7. I think you will be surprised at how little they know. Honest!

My Repug friends have never heard of the Koch bros., have the opinion the OWS wants to take away all the wealth of the top 1% and cannot understand why they are so mad at banks. They've never heard about the corporations/oil companies expansion of wealth while paying little or no taxes. Didn't know about the SCOTUS ruling on corporations as people. On and on and on.

These are intelligent people, but they only see/hear headlines and soundbites. They don't delve into what's happening like we do and look at you like you are crazy when you try to explain. It is incredible how the media machine/methods of the RW have worked. Look at how Texas wanted to rewrite history...it's the same thing with the news these people are getting today.

I've never seen anything like it.

[gulfbreeze]

42. That's why I've given up

on trying to have a conversation with them. You can't if they don't even have the most fundamental understanding of history, the constitution, or SCOTUS rulings.

[annabanana]

44. +1. . .With many of them you will have to nibble at the edges

of the ignorance. It's not their fault. They think we still have a "free" media and they tend to believe what appears on the surface. Sometimes all it takes is one, easily exposed falsehood for them to come around.

[emcguffie]

57. I think you've nailed one of the biggest problems.

Many people still believe we have a free media, and thus believe we/they are well informed as long as we pay attention to the newspaper and network news or CNN or, ech, Fox.

I believe the other main problem is that most people believe we have honest elections, and we don't.

[FedUp_Queer]

52. Two words: Fox News.

[ixion]

10. Cool!

I think the more people we can engage in the movement, the better, as long as they understand the movement is non-violent.

[Mojeoux]

14. Craft yourself a good solid speech that charms the pants off of everyone.

Start with an amusing ice-breaking, short little antidote.
(Or not)

Then tell 'em what your going to say,

Then tell 'em.

Then tell 'em what you said.

Make some conclusions and thank them for their attention.

Prepare how you might answer questions.

Make sure your speech, and possible answers have a certain rhythm and (very important) make sure the wording of your theses statements are arraigned so the key words are at the end of the sentence so you can emphasize your core points.

This is helpful to the listener also so they can easily remember and share these concepts with others.


These can be useful "sound bites" for the listeners to counter the lock-step faux logic of the tea party.

This all may seem obvious, but it was fun for me to run through some of the basics and make some use of my B.A. in Communications.

Good Luck,
MJ

[PETRUS]

15. Thank you! nt

[BR_Parkway]

35. And don't forget - conservatives are much more motivated when they

think they are going to lose something or that someone else is going to get something they "don't deserve"

Not saying that you need to stoop to Fear & Slur to make your point - just that you will get a better response talking about what they have already or will stand to lose than if you try to tell them about what they'll gain

[ZombieHorde]

17. Public speaking is exciting. I hope you do well, and I hope the event is educational. nt

[Fire Walk With Me]

18. Innapropriate to discuss Wall Street...very dark ages.

The house is on fire but we don't discuss it.

[SteveM]

19. Which is better: OWS with leftists only, or OWS with lefties and Tparty folks?

You're making the right move, one I've advocated for a couple of years as quite necessary.

[tabatha]

20. Have you seen this?

http://english.aljazeera.net/programmes/meltdown/

Great 4-part series, if any of them want to watch it as well.

[PETRUS]

24. I was aware of it.

I check Al Jazeera fairly regularly, but I haven't watched that program. Usually I prefer written information (I can read faster than someone can talk), but you're not the first person to recommend it and I will probably check it out.

[butterfly77]

21. Kicked&Recommended..

[mahina]

22. I love this woman's message: I don't mind you being rich, I mind you buying my government.

The divide and conquer approach can't be allowed to prevail.

It was Steinbeck I think who said "Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.”

I love your idea of community conversations, and love even more that you are making it happen. Please post info and pics. Maybe we can replicate your successful model!

Are you thinking of agreeing on ground rules? Public meetings convened w all the best of intentions here were derailed by one lone, loud aggressor. She would not have succeeded if we had ground rules. No personal attacks, focus on the problem not the person, speak just once till others have spoken, etc.

Power to the people, power to you!

[PETRUS]

23. Thanks. We've agreed on the need for a moderator.

For the Q&A and discussion portion, anyway. A few names have come up. Otherwise we didn't talk structure.

[mahina]

25. one thing I have learned is that it is super useful to get the whole group to agree to the rules,

whatever they are. That way when someone breaks them, it's way easier to stop it. The group agreed to these rules, sorry, you can't do that. That carries a lot more weight than just rules stuck on the wall.

It only takes a few seconds..."these are some ground rules, a b c, any objections? None? Thanks!"

My .02 wish I could be there! Good luck!

[OneGrassRoot]

27. I just found this group; you may be interested in visiting the site...

http://network.transpartisan.net/

There is a video from a couple of years ago with a panel consisting of a Tea Party leader and a Moveon.org founder.

Good luck!

[PETRUS]

29. Thanks! nt

[pipi_k]

28. It's really pretty neat...

what a bit of civility can accomplish when people don't quite see things the same way. :)

Glad to hear you had a relatively positive encounter and good luck on your presentation.

[AsahinaKimi]

30. Ganbatte ne!!

*do your best!!! がんばってね！！！

[lovemydog]

31. good luck

I'm interested in hearing how it goes. Have fun with it.

Most of those people I find stubborn in their stupidity. But I'd love to hear of anything positive.

[defendandprotect]

32. Great idea -- !!

[KT2000]

33. Do let us know

how it goes. :applause:

[peacetalksforall]

34. Try to have a list of corporations who are 'blue'. So that you can tell

them that they are right - that some corporations should not be blamed.

All banking entities should not be blamed.

But, I would really hit hard at the multi-nationals - it is the easiest way to get out of liability to this country. Especially the war and energy companies.

Perhaps forum members can help with the 'blue' corporations. But the label 'blue' should probably me minimized.

[tomg]

36. This is great. One of the

best things about OWS is that it has people (and by people I mean us - whether left, right or middle)talking about these issues in meaningful ways. When it goes to town hall meetings and local gatherings - like you and others are doing - is when the greatest impact will be felt. Thanks for what you are doing. That is as grass roots as it gets.

[lunatica]

39. You're right! This is the real grassroots taking off

Respectful education is the best approach. No matter how right you are if you talk down to people they will only get angry and refuse to listen to the message.

[jerseyjack]

37. Check out Socrates Cafe for ideas of setting the framework.

[lunatica]

40. You're an Ambassador for the CWS. Diplomacy is the best persuader

Remember to acknowledge those things we have in common too.

[TBF]

41. That is awesome -

will Mrs. Petrus be speaking as well? :)

[PETRUS]

64. Mrs. Petrus is irrepressible. :)

And has a more sophisticated understanding about some of the relevant issues than I do. So I would imagine and hope so!

[orbitalman]

43. K & R

[Ozagnaria]

46. I hope all goes well

I hope all goes well and you are able to find some common ground.

Generally speaking I am a lurker, I love reading this board, but do not really post as I am an outsider and it is not my place to come over and crap up someone else's board. I am not a Democrat or a Republican. At times, I am squarely on the side of the right and times I am squarely on the side of the left. Often I am frustrated that partisanship has made it so that when there is an issue that both sides really do agree on (and by both sides I mean people in the general public) the people become divided by D's and R's (on purpose by politicians, media, corporations and other power broker types) an we lose sight of the facts and the issues and the solutions only to be once again screwed over and most of the time people do not even realize they have been screwed/used.


I have no problem with people disagreeing with me, sometimes they are even right and I am in fact wrong and vice versa. But it is so frustrating when you agree with someone about something and you can't work together because of other issues.

I feel comfortable in saying no one wants crony capitalism, mercantilism, oligarchies, plutocracies, bought politicians, corporate control of the government, and so on.

So I really do wish you the best and I truly hope you can find a way to connect with them. I look forward to reading what happened. I am so tired of being used when I know we have the numbers, because the people with power are just too damn good at manipulating the masses.

[snooper2]

48. It's Teabagger, not "tea-partier" FYI

[Tesha]

49. Prepare, prepare, prepare

Those that are trained will use tactics from Alinsky's list.
They will redirect the subject if they feel they've lost a point.
They will bring up Soros and other funders that Beck has attacked.

They will respond well to humor, charts, images, references to the Constitution, and badly to anger, the mention of Fox or neo-cons, and if you must refer to the Kochs have lots of material at hand to make your point.

Handouts with bullet points are great - keep it simple and friendly and you WILL win some over.
I known this because I always stand next to these folks at protests and chat!

Oh, and if anyone mentions their service, thank them immediately.

Best of luck and let the Nashua Dems know about your success, we could always use good news.

[bongbong]

50. Talking Points!

Anticipate their Talking Points and have plenty of ammo to return.

This is not such a daunting task. It's actually quite easy with google. And fun; you learn a lot too.

They DO NOT have truth on their side. They DO NOT have facts on their side. They have, at most, 20-30 Talking Points that are 99% lies. You can find lists of their Talking Points & the sourced/cited rejoinder to each of them on the Net or in back issues of DU. If you have a source for each of your comebacks that really adds strength.

Example of a "debate" (really a one-sided slaughter) I had with a teabagger online recently:

Me: "raygun tripled deficits"
Him: "raygun doubled revenue. HA!"
Me: (quick googling, finding that Hannity started this lie, and it was debunked)
Me: "Big lie. You're parroting Hannity. Revenue went from 1.0 trill to 1.2 trill. Debunked at this site ...."
Him: "Uhumina uhumina, uhumina (Gleason as Kramden).... I DID NOT GET IT FROM HANNITY!"

[wryter2000]

51. This sounds very promising

I suspect you'll discover that you and the tea partier have quite a bit in common, economically. It doesn't sound as if he's a crazy if he discussed it with you politely.

:bounce:

[Johnny2X2X]

53. Good Luck

There are some logical Tea Party people out there, but by and large they are the most ill informed group you can encounter. In their opinion FOXNEWS is left leaning News. Seriously, go to FREEP or even Drudge, they are constantly calling out FOX NEWS as being too liberal. That's the type of delusions you are dealing with. Still, it's worth going and representing OWS. You wont be able to change their minds on Obama or Liberlism, but you can at least give them a real idea of what OWS is all about.

[Jim_Shorts]

54. Your going to try and talk sense to nonsensical people?

I would begin with this Sarah Palin Quote to get on their wavelength:

"I think on a national level your Department of Law there in the White House would look at some of the things that we've been charged with and automatically throw them out."

Have you read the RollingStone article by Matt Taibbi? The Truth about the Tea Party:
---------------------------------------------------
those people really don't pay attention to specifics too much. Like dogs, they listen to tone of voice and emotional attitude.

My head is starting to hurt. Arguments with Tea Partiers always end up like football games in the year 1900 — everything on the ground, one yard at a time.

fundamentalist Christian thought, you get a mind-blowing glimpse into the modern conservative worldview. One exhibit depicts a half-naked Adam and Eve sitting in the bush, cheerfully keeping house next to dinosaurs — which, according to creationist myth, not only lived alongside humans but were peaceful vegetarians until Adam partook of the forbidden fruit. It's hard to imagine a more telling demonstration of this particular demographic's unmatched ability to believe just about anything.

article:http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/matt-taibbi-on-the-tea-party-20100928
---------------------------------------------------
Short description of teavangelical: Gun toting, fundamentalist Christian, hardcore libertarian mixed with disaffected Republicon

Good luck PETRUS, you have heart.

[Uncle Joe]

55. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, PETRUS and good luck.:thumbsup:

[david_vincent]

56. I don't understand.

Since when is what you do with your life any of this guy's business? This is exactly the point at which fascism begins.

[Lars77]

59. Talking and exchanging ideas is what they fear the most

You have already won a major victory.

[deaniac21]

60. Bet there won't be any white folks at this meeting...

[socialindependocrat]

61. I talk to people in the office...

I don't get upset and I acknowledge when they make a point that
adds to the logic of the argument presented.

They feel that they are being listened to and that
you appreciate their input.

My focus is usually to add logic from another point of view
and not to win the whole battle. They will think about what
you have told them and sometimes they will get back to you and
tell you that your comments had an effect on them.

Example:
People got real whacked out about Health care and giving the poor free treatment - socialism.

I reminded them that the hospitals don't turn away patients because they do not have health insurance. This "loss" gets claimed on the hospital's taxes and "We The People" pay the
hospitals for their loss out of the tax pool. Same outcome but no one calls it socialism.

[PatrynXX]

62. always good to have a polite but proper debate

debates aren't supposed to turn into arguments (okay perry and romney step away)

always wanted to have a proper one with my new cousin in law who is hispanic.. mostly to discuss our differences and more to understand the other side. I've been on the , against illegal workers. Primarily my uncle went of of biz because businesses broke two laws. hired them and because they are illegal, pay them below min wage.

I was never shoot the anchor babies type. Which given what happened to my uncle even I was shocked when he said that :( and I backed away this time.


Hope your debate goes pretty good and respect each other. Nobody wins a debate, if there are already assumptions in place.

[whathehell]

63. Good going!...n/t

[elleng]

65. GREAT WORK! Called democracy, right?

:thumbsup:

[certainot]

66. when they counter w RW talking points ask them if they heard it from limbaugh, who has been

wrong about everything.

or at least mention the name in some way at some point to remind them of who the tea party king is, put the whole thing in perspective.

[azureblue]

67. My fave way

of getting past the baggers' wall is to use religion. For instance, say that you think the Ten Commandments should be on display at every courthouse and state office building. They will always go for that one. But then add, but what good does it do if no one obeys them? Why not also pass a law that says that should public official who breaks any of the Ten will be immediately removed from office? I mean, put your ass where your mouth is? They will agree to this one, and you can see a light come on. You now have their attention and you are speaking in their religious terms. God. The Ten Commandments, Jesus.. Once somebody says Jesus, there is your opening, but you better know some of the things Jesus is quoted as saying in the Bible. If you really want to get them, offer a prayer and pray that Jesus will teach his followers to do the things he told them to do. Now they are in a box, Jesus was a Socialist, take care of the poor the sick, etc. and they are in conflict, because they can't scream about ending medicare without contradicting what Jesus taught. They simple question, "well, what did Jesus tell you to do about that?" will stop them in their tracks..

[SoapBox]

68. Good luck!

...when I've tried to talk to some Baggers/LaRouche types, that camp in front
of our local post office or other locations...

They just start talking back to me in a "baby talk" style.

They NEVER answer anything.

[Posteritatis]

69. That's actually good on both your parts

My views on Wall Street or its various equivalents in other countries tends to be pretty contemptuous and uncompromising, but I'll never get tired of civility at the street level, even between people who are on opposite sides of this debate. Anytime people are willing to engage like that, it's a couple less people reduced to just shouting slogans at the cameras behind their opponent.

[ieoeja]

70. The GOP has a saying, "if you tax income over one million dollars at 100%, nobody will make ...

... over one million dollars." That is actually a very accurate statement, but doesn't mean what the GOP thinks it means.

The GOP uses that statement believing it means anybody earning that much would simply stop working at that point. And the economy would die. In truth, anyone making that much would reinvest every single penny earned over one million dollars to avoid giving all of it to the gov't.


The GOP has another saying, "taxing job creators means they have less to invest." This argument has a flaw you could drive a Mac truck through: you only pay tax on the profit. Which means reinvestment will be spent pre-tax. In fact, as shown in the above radically extreme situation where we would pay 100% on income over one million dollars, such a tax would guarantee that every penny of profit over one million dollars would be reinvested. Higher taxes actually provide an incentive to invest more!

[duhneece]

72. Wonderfully amazingly good!

So many topics need to be discussed! Good one.