Insight: Firms to charge smokers, obese more for healthcare

[Synicus Maximus]

Source: Reuters

Like a lot of companies, Veridian Credit Union wants its employees to be healthier. In January, the Waterloo, Iowa-company rolled out a wellness program and voluntary screenings.

It also gave workers a mandate - quit smoking, curb obesity, or you'll be paying higher healthcare costs in 2013. It doesn't yet know by how much, but one thing's for certain - the unhealthy will pay more.

The credit union, which has more than 500 employees, is not alone.

Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/30/us-penalties-idUSTRE79T2S220111030?feedType=RSS&feedName=domesticNews&rpc=22&sp=true

---

The State of Georgia has been doing this for years.

[pnwmom]

1. But obesity would be a pre-existing condition, and the new healthcare law

as I understand it, won't allow higher premiums based on pre-existing conditions. So it will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Cigarette smoking, OTOH, would be a choice -- unless the smokers want to admit that it's an addiction.

[jwirr]

3. They cannot refuse to cover them but I think they can charge them

more.

[The Straight Story]

4. Obesity would be a choice as well

and as many here have predicted, after smokers they will go after obese people.

And by 'going after them' I mean new laws, shaming them, and doing all they can to get others to join their puritan views and working to make folks more like them.

[MindPilot]

14. Sometimes the health nazis make me want start smoking just to piss them off.

[phleshdef]

37. Thats not entirely true. Obesity can be due to genetics or thyroid disease.

[laundry_queen]

41. Or medications.

Gained 60 lbs over 3 years on anti-depressants. Went off anti-depressant and lost 60lbs in a few months. Go figure.

Also why it's so difficult to lose weight and keep it off - http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/27/health/biological-changes-thwart-weight-loss-efforts-study-finds.html

[Mimosa]

50. Genetics, thyroid diseases and side effects from anti-diabetes & anti-depressants

Can all cause obesity.

Ever hear of Lipitor belly? Google it.

These type of policies are discriminatory against Native Americans, segments of the Native American people (recent studied have proven Native Americans of Southwestern heritage have a genetic predisposition to obesity which developed from a hunter gatherer/feast or famine metabolism) asd well as people who have to take certain medications including Metformin and Lipitor.

I'm not fat so I'm arguing strictly for fairness.

Single payer for all national health care would have led to health supportive programs but not these patchwork prejudicial programs.

[ohheckyeah]

46. Yep....

it should have been obvious to everyone who would be next.

Aren't overweight or smoke? Don't worry, you won't be exempt from this crap long because eventually they will find something you do to charge you more for.

Whose next? Drinkers? People with multiple sex partners?

[Mimosa]

63. Like GAY MEN??? Sluts? ;) N/T

[GreenStormCloud]

2. Quit smoking, start exercising, eat right, loose the flab.

You will feel better with your new body, and it will be cheaper. Cigs are expensive, beer & booze are expensive, pre-processed crap food is expensive. Walking is a cheap and healthy exercise.

[HomerRamone]

6. Here we go again.

DIETS USUALLY FAIL. Many can try to eat right and exercise and remain obese. It's genetic, it's metabolism, it's hormones...

[Skittles]

8. thinness does not automatically mean healthy

yup

[Jester Messiah]

11. All true, so I took the surgical route.

Haven't regretted it once. My new, much smaller stomach has already provided significant weight loss, and I have a much healthier future to look forward to.

[cpwm17]

12. It's mostly lifestyle

People in the US are much fatter than when I was young - same genes, different lifestyle.

I watch what people purchase at the grocer store, and it's mostly crap. Most of it I wouldn't put in my body. Most people are responsible for their own obesity.

[alp227]

21. Oh c'mon, obesity can be genetic too

That gene is carried by more than 1/3 the US population.

[Big Blue Marble]

40. Oh c'om, genetics is mostly an excuse.

Genes will be rrepprogramed with the right diet and exercise. I have very large peeps on both sides.
My BMI is 20. It's not luck; it's hard work.

[Zoeisright]

42. Uh huh. How do you know your size is NOT genetic?

Having "very large peeps on both sides" means nothing. Perhaps you didn't get those genes.

You sound like someone who was born on third base and thinks he hit a triple.

[Big Blue Marble]

44. I know because

I used to be fat, fought it all my life until I found out how to retool my genetics.

[alp227]

45. BMI is junk science, though.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=106268439

[Big Blue Marble]

54. It may be junk.

But I am a person with a 25" waist who wears size 4 jeans. And that is not junk.

[Zoeisright]

43. Way to judge people you don't even know.

God, I hate this fucking judgmental crap. Why are YOU spewing crap?

[GreenStormCloud]

25. Most diet DO fail, due to lack of exercise.

Exercise is vital for weight control.

[Obamanaut]

55. Most diets with fad or celebrity names attached fail. If one considers everything that enters

the body through the mouth as 'diet', and chooses sensibly not only the items, but the quantities of those items, then 'diet' can be effective.

Exercise will work toward improving musculature and cardio-vascular well-being, but one can actually lose weight via one's diet (when considering everything consumed as diet) alone.

[GreenStormCloud]

58. Exercise controls the body's metabolism setpoint.

Without exercise the body reduces muscle mass and uses fewer calories when at rest. Exercise enough to increse muscle mass and the body burns more calories, even at rest.

[Obamanaut]

59. 'Some' people say, even here, that the body "knows" what weight it wants

to be, thus the term setpoint.

If a person's BMR is such that 2,000 calories will maintain the current weight at the given activity level and one maintains that activity level with no change while reducing the intake - weight loss will occur. Increase activity at the same time, and weight loss will occur at a faster weight.

calories in = calories out = weight remains

calories in < calories out = weight reduction

People might tend to justify their weight gain while eating twinkies by exclaiming "Oh, my 'setpoint' increased three pounds, that's why I'm carrying extra weight now." All the while brushing twinkie crumbs off their chests.

[GreenStormCloud]

60. That is a basic truth of life that many deny. N/T

[raccoon]

29. ...it's medications. nt

[Newsjock]

7. Don't skydive, don't ride a motorcycle, ...

... don't drink alcohol, don't have multiple sex partners, don't exceed the speed limit, don't jaywalk.

This cannot end well, and corporations have no damn business with anything other than on-the-job performance using criteria that are specific to the job at hand. They can keep their goddamn hands out of my personal life, thank you very much.

[geardaddy]

36. +1000

[RebelOne]

66. Well, when I worked for a company in Florida,

I was skydiving and my health insurance was no higher than any of my fellow employees/

[MindPilot]

13. Thank you. Undoubtedly nobody knew that unitl you pointed it out.

[eridani]

18. That is full of shit. Obese people and smokers have lower lifetime health costs

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/05/health/05iht-obese.1.9748884.html

Preventing obesity and smoking can save lives, but it does not save money, according to a new report.

It costs more to care for healthy people who live years longer, according to a Dutch study that counters the common perception that preventing obesity would save governments millions of dollars.

"It was a small surprise," said Pieter van Baal, an economist at the National Institute for Public Health and the Environment in the Netherlands, who led the study. "But it also makes sense. If you live longer, then you cost the health system more."

In a paper published online Monday in the Public Library of Science Medicine journal, Dutch researchers found that the health costs of thin and healthy people in adulthood are more expensive than those of either fat people or smokers.

Van Baal and colleagues create Preventing obesity and smoking can save lives, but it does not save money, according to a new report.

[pmorlan1]

23. Common Sense

Thanks for posting the link. I've said this for a long time. I'm glad there is a study to back up common sense.

The reason smokers and the obese are charged more money by their employers is because non-smokers and people who aren't obese let them get away with it. Stop discriminating against people to help corporations improve their profits.

[GreenStormCloud]

24. But healthy people have most of their health care cost AFTER they retire.

Smokers and fat folks start having their costs while they are still on employer's health plans.

[SixthSense]

33. It's got to be paid for nevertheless

so whether the being paid for comes directly out of your paycheck to the health insurance cos, or takes a pit stop at the Medicare department on the way, doesn't matter a hell of a lot

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Le Taz Hot]

34. All great ideas, but I do have a question:

what do you suggeset for people with severe respiratory problems in terms of obesity when the experts say, "This is a Bad Air Day, the elderly and those with respiratory problems are urged to stay indoors and avoid any type exertion." I'll wait for your answer.

[Scout]

47. i may be fat, but at least i know the difference between "lose" and "loose" n/t

[Merlot]

5. I don't smoke and am not overweight - still can't afford health insurance.

[kiranon]

9. What about don't drink? Don't run too fast? Don't walk under ladders?

[Marazinia]

20. Don't protest in California

:(

[CrackersMcGee]

10. Funny, I thought us 'Democrats' believed in the power of gov't to steer society in the (R) direction

Number of deaths for leading causes of death

Heart disease: 616,067
Cancer: 562,875
Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 135,952
Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 127,924
Accidents (unintentional injuries): 123,706
Alzheimer's disease: 74,632
Diabetes: 71,382
Influenza and Pneumonia: 52,717
Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 46,448
Septicemia: 34,828

SOURCE:
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/lcod.htm


So, cardio vascular...
616
135
127
-----------
878


878 vs 123 accident
878 vs 562 cancer

And some cancer rates rise significantly with obesity.
http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Risk/obesity


Funny, I thought us 'Democrats' believed in the power of gov't to steer society in the right direction?
C-c-could it be? N-n-not everyone here is really a Democrat? Hold the children close, dear!

[MindPilot]

15. No, it's that some of us are not nanny staters.

[CrackersMcGee]

22. What does that even mean?

EDIT: You know what? Nevermind.

[JoeyT]

27. It means that a lot of us don't think we should use the government to legislate against

things we don't like that adults do.

There's a word for people that want to outlaw everything they think is icky: Republican.

[MindPilot]

32. Thanks for that. n/t

[Douglas Carpenter]

39. unfortunately the "push people around and tell them what to do gene" is not limited to the GOP

or the fundamentalist right. The control freak sociopath can appear even in the most secular and liberal circles. You will know them by the same self-righteous smirk on their face that their counterparts in the fundamentalist right lives by. Unlike their counterparts on the right they won't be quoting the Bible. But they will have their own little unofficial book of rules and be constantly confounded as to why everyone doesn't see the obvious logic of simply obeying and doing what they are told.

"What is morality but prejudice." Oscar Wilde

[Mimosa]

52. ^ Amen! ^

I suspect when Rethugs when batshit religulous crazy some of them figured they'd try out being Dems. But eventually they show they're more comfortable being Rs. Rigid. Reactionary...

[ohheckyeah]

48. I don't believe in the power

of government to steer society in the "right" direction. The government can't even steer itself in the right direction.

[etherealtruth]

sorry duplicate post

[etherealtruth]

49. From where I sit it's the republicans that try to steer society

I don't need the government poking around in my bedroom or making decisions about my body.

[SOS]

16. This system is idiotic

Germany has a much higher smoking rate than the US.
50% of Germans are overweight.
Germans drink 50% more alcohol per person per year.
There are no speed limits on German highways.

The US spends $8,000 per person per year on it's mercantile medical system.
Germany spends $4,000 per person per year on national health.

Life expectancy:
79.4 years in Germany
78.3 for the US.

With a civilized medical system you can have more fun and live longer at half the price!

[MindPilot]

17. And the Germans have much better porn.

Do you have a link for those stats? I would like to share them.

[SOS]

35. Links...

Alcohol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_alcohol_consumption

Life expectancy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

Health spending 2008
http://www.kff.org/insurance/snapshot/OECD042111.cfm

Obesity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in_Germany

Health spending 2009
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_(PPP)_per_capita

Tobacco use
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevalence_of_tobacco_consumption#Germany

[Marazinia]

19. I hope those workers are well paid, then

I wonder if they saw the recent study showing that fattening food is cheaper than healthy food.

[bemildred]

26. German workers live well, they have a form of workplace democracy.

We gave them that after WWII, but apparently we are not worthy of that here at home. Here we get workplace feudalism.

[JoeyT]

28. We need a betting pool for what group will be next.

Once smokers and fat people aren't a big enough target.

My money is on sex outside of marriage. It wouldn't take much to sell "STDs are what drive up the cost of your insurance! Immoral people need to pay more!" in this country. I can't believe the right wingers aren't doing it already. And we wouldn't have much of a defense against it, either. After years of cheering on every attack on smokers and the obese, we can hardly shift gears and insist that people have a right to privacy or to decide what they want for their bodies.

[raccoon]

30. Drinking. My guess is insurance companies have already cut way back on what

they'll pay for rehab for alcohol/drug addiction. And will continue to do so.

[dipsydoodle]

31. People who play the banjo

:rofl:

[etherealtruth]

53. Well now, that IS reasonable

[Liberal_in_LA]

57. lol n/t

[seabeyond]

38. smokers have been being charged an higher rate for a long time. nothing new. nt

[BlueIris]

56. Hard for me to criticize this policy.

Really hard.

[Modern_Matthew]

61. I can't stand to be around health nuts...

I've had to work with them before and it's all they talk about. Give me friends that smoke and cram lots of food down their throats ANYDAY. They just do it. They don't feel the need to talk about it every 5 minutes.

[bluestate10]

64. Since they are likely not going to have many minutes of life.

Why should they waste precious time talking about the crap they are putting in their lungs, guts and arteries?

[HappyMe]

62. Seems fair to me.

:shrug:

[RebelOne]

65. No, the state of Georgia has not been doing this.

I worked in many companies in Georgia. I am a smoker and my health premiums were not any higher than any of the other employees.