"By the time you read this, I will be gone" says 99er. !!!

[Liberal_in_LA]

I hope someone notified the authorities. I see that his post has one of the highest note counts I've seen - more than 300 :cry: :cry: :cry:



http://wearethe99percent.tumblr.com/page/21

[Brickbat]

1. I have strong mixed feelings about this letter.

[Liberal_in_LA]

12. in what way?

[Brickbat]

18. Depression is a terrible thing and it's hard to understand the pain someone else might be going

through. On the other hand, if I were the wife or one of the kids, I'd kind of wish he would have talked to me about his problems, instead of typing something out, taking a picture of it, and putting it on the Internet for everyone else but me to see. I personally think that was a damn shitty move. Suicide is a terrible selfish thing anyway, but this kind of public suicide is disgusting and exploitive.

If it really happened, which I kind of doubt.

[easttexaslefty]

60. @ brickbat

Please educate yourself about the suicidal mind. There's lots of info out there! Suicide may look selfish but in 90% of the cases a mental illness is involved. Suicide is a case of hopelessness & helplessness. Often, people who suicide believe they are doing friends & family a favor. Not true, of course...

[raccoon]

16. Do you mean you're wondering if it's for real? nt

[Brickbat]

Meh, "wondering" is too strong a word.

I object more to him thinking this was a productive thing to do. It was terribly cruel to do to the survivors, on top of killing himself, if he actually did kill himself.

[Safetykitten]

59. Oh dear! Strong feelings? Can't let that happen.

[Brickbat]

68. ?

[Arugula Latte]

2. Oh no ...

Terrifying.

What is going to happen to his family if he killed himself? How could his wife deal with these burdens?

[FarLeftFist]

3. ENORMOUSLY SAD and HEARTBREAKING :( I hope he reconsiders...

[Demit]

4. Not feelin it for the guy. I am feelin it for the diabetic wife & 5 babies.

[Brickbat]

5. Lot of pain around there. But yeah.

[Lorien]

6. I'm guessing that he believes that the only way he can support his family

is by having them cash in his life insurance policy. He's hardly the first to think this way; and if the OWS movement doesn't succeed there will be thousands more like him.

[Ship of Fools]

7. No question there. Line forms to the rear ...

[The Wielding Truth]

8. Can you buy suicide insurace? I've not heard of it.

[DLnyc]

11. Some life insurance covers suicide, some doesn't

Some have a 'waiting period': covers suicide but not until 2 years after policy is bought, say.

[The Wielding Truth]

13. Gee this is surprising. I just Googled to find more info. There were alot

of references of people asking about it.About 2,900,000 results (0.23 seconds). That is shocking.too. To think of that many people interested in the subject. Sad.

[DLnyc]

21. See 15 below

Apparently the general rule is death by suicide covered after a waiting period.

[redqueen]

36. Sadly, I don't find it the least bit surprising. (nt)

[ileus]

50. Mine does after two years (it's been 6) so I'm good to go...volunteer or not.

[Doctor_J]

53. The Life Insurance I had paid off on suicide, as long as it

wasn't within 6 months of the issue of the policy.

Or I guess I should say would have paid off ;-)

[The Backlash Cometh]

9. Suicide usually renders an insurane policy null and void.

[DLnyc]

15. Not so, I think

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2746/would-life-insurance-be-paid-out-on-someone-executed-for-a-crime

[The Backlash Cometh]

20. Erm, this guy left a suicide note. I think it undermines all the points

brought up in that article.

[DLnyc]

24. No, my reading of the article is suicide is covered.

Not just questionable, possible suicide, but suicide in general. Provided a waiting period (varies by policy) has been satisfied.

[Chan790]

51. It's a specifc rider addressed within policies.

They usually charge more for suicide coverage and stipulate that it doesn't kick in until some date well past policy initiation, like a year or 18 months. Usually they also do not pay the full-value of the policy. You also cannot take out such a policy (as the payee, not the beneficiary obviously) on yourself typically.

I know this because my mother carries a term-policy on my estranged biological father that includes such a clause because he's multi-attempt. It was a hedge against him not paying the hundreds of thousands he owed her in back-support then dying or doing something stupid.

[The Backlash Cometh]

55. I'm really sorry about your situation.

But appreciate the info.

[Chan790]

73. No need for sorry, but thank you.

I'm 32. My youngest brother is 24. It's old history...money owed from 2 decades ago.

In the meanwhile, my mother has gone from a clerk for Pratt and Whitney to being the VP of a supplier to defense contractors, my stepfather is one of the most-senior F/T unionized (UFCW) employees of his supermarket chain, if he stays until 66, he'll retire with 50 years (he gets paid better for 40hrs. per-week than (80hrs. per-week) store management.)...so we've not needed the money. We're not 1% but we're definitely 10%.

There were some rough years in there, but they were ages ago. If he agreed to stop contacting us forever, we'd probably agree to drop the arrears.

[The Backlash Cometh]

78. It's good to know that everything turned out well.

You're one of the lucky ones.

[easttexaslefty]

61. It's covered after a waiting period for obvious reasons.

Depression is an ILLNESS. Just like cancer. Just like heart disease. An illness. Got it?

[Chan790]

75. He's not depressed.

Just suicidal. I don't feel that I have to explain the particulars. Suffice that was the medical diagnosis.

They're spite attempts. He relishes the thought of the disruption and repercussions it would cause.

[easttexaslefty]

77. That's an oxymoron.

He's not depressed, he's suicidal. Good grief.

[Chan790]

105. That was factually the diagnosis of the psych professionals during his commitment..

He wasn't depressed at, before or after any of his three attempts. That was the finding...he was very lucid and honest about why he'd done it.

[The Backlash Cometh]

31. Apparently there's a two year window.

Which means that premeditated suicide with the intention of cashing in on a policy, is excluded.

Still, I learned something I hadn't read before. So thanks for the info.

[ScreamingMeemie]

106. Not at all. I'm living proof.

Both of our policies paid off. Please do not misinform people without knowing for sure. :hi:

[OhioChick]

10. That was my initial though...life insurance policy n/t

[ChazII]

39. Could they collect on the policy if

he killed himself?

[GOTV]

49. Doesn't suicide void life insurance policies?

[MannyGoldstein]

14. Failure to fight crazy far-right radicals has consequences

So very sad and troubling.

[Shagbark Hickory]

17. Selfish fuck. n/t

[Liberal_in_LA]

19. wow. n/t

[Brickbat]

23. That crossed my mind as well.

[LanternWaste]

25. Let's try not to conflate selfish with desperate

Let's try not to conflate selfishness with desperation-- it reflects poorly on us when we do that to validate our knee-jerk reactions.

There is a precise and relevant difference between the two.

[Shagbark Hickory]

26. Agreed. This dude was a selfish fuck. n/t

[redqueen]

37. Oh wow am I ever surprised to see this from you.

:sarcasm:

I hope you never get to find out first hand what depression is like. And if you know what it's like, then how dare you?

[Pacifist Patriot]

42. It's comments like yours.

That make me appreciate my Ignore list. I gather I'm not missing anything I'd care to see.

[Skittles]

43. actually it's not a bad comment

[SidDithers]

58. Yup. I agree...

The life of his wife and 5 kids is probably not going to be better after he kills himself.

Sid

[easttexaslefty]

64. "selfish fuck"

The misunderstanding of a suicidal mind is truly astounding. :argh:

[chrisa]

69. Suicide is not being selfish.

Many times, they actually think everybody would be better off without them, and therefore they are doing the world a favor.

Depression is not a rational illness. It's why people could have the most comfortable, worry-free lives and then kill themselves. The act of causing his family grief and despair could be arguably seen as selfish (as he is ending his own pain), but that is ignoring the fact that suicidal people are often far from being rational people.

[Shagbark Hickory]

98. Pardon me. He was an Irrational selfish fuck.

Sorry honey, sorry kids.
I know times are tough but good luck, you're on your own.
"Please forgive me"

[Zorra]

22. Even if the note is not "real", it's real, because this sort of thing actually happens.

And I hope we can do something to someday insure that it never happens again.

And I'm not saying that the note is not genuine, I'm just trying to neutralize a skeptics' argument.

[Karenina]

27. I daresay, running for the exit

will occur much more frequently as many reach breaking points. I do expect the suicide rate, particularly for boomers, to spike.

[Alameda]

28. "notify the authorities?" How do you think he got this way?

I do feel sorry for this guy. Nobody has any right to put him down for not being able to take it anymore.

[leftyohiolib]

29. what a disgusting p.o.s. coward. a child with ep and a wife with

diabetes. and he's gonna take the easy way out without a thought at all to the family. his wife(WITH Diabetes) and his children, they lose their income, their insurance and their way of life and now they're going to ( if this is not all b.s.) lose and bury their husband/father. what a low-life.

[roguevalley]

33. most aren't in right mind. he will regret it once he does it. i feel for

the fricking world that this exists. sad all around.

[Pacifist Patriot]

34. Suicide is not about cowardice, nor is it rational.

[redqueen]

38. deleted

thanks for trying to educate some people. i hope you're not wasting your time.

[leftyohiolib]

54. the cowardice comes from him leaving his wife and family when they will need hom the most

[Pacifist Patriot]

56. Still attributes a motive / emotional state that is unlikely to be present.

[leftyohiolib]

62. well we'll have to agree to disagree cause

i think it does. it does because, i beleive, that when times get tough you dont run off leaving your diabetic wife to take care of all your kids, one of which suffers from severe epilepsy. that, i believe is the act of a coward.

[Pacifist Patriot]

91. Yes we will.

Because anyone who attributes suicide to cowardice has no knowledge of the subject.

[leftyohiolib]

95. "who attributes suicide to cowardice" where did i say that? if

you care go back and read what it typed. the cowardice is about him abandoning his diabetic wife and their kids.

[easttexaslefty]

65. Yep

:thumbsup:

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[leftyohiolib]

57. read the letter twice saw nothing about having had bouts of depression

maybe you have a crystal ball and can look into the mind of this "man" but i dont. you assume he has depression with out any evidence. nor do you have any insight about what I may or maynot have had. maybe he's not depressed, since his letter, which does contain alot of personal info, doesnt say, so maybe he IS a pos coward and doesnt need YOU to come riding to his defense.

without knowing either one of us you made him a sufferer of "severe depression" and myself, the pos, free of depression. talk about someone "who doesn't have the first clue" of what they're talking about shooting their mouth off. but i'm ignorant.

[easttexaslefty]

67. You don't need a crystal ball.

Statistics. They can be your friend.

[leftyohiolib]

74. you dont need ctrystal balls or stats when it's right there in print..nt

no "severe depression" mentioned. being depressed about losing your job is not the same as being clinicly diagnosed with severe depression. you dont leave your wife and family when they need you the most you dont need stats or crystals to know that.

[easttexaslefty]

76. You're hopeless

Suicide is not a "rational" act. Nor is it an act of the selfish. Educate yourself before you spout off.

[leftyohiolib]

86. went through my posts and i couldnt find where i said it was rational

or selfish. so i dont know what you're talking about,do you? anyway, forgive me great and powerful oz, knower of all things knowable but just because we we dont see things the same way doesnt mean i need educating. lastly hurling insults is something you do when you've run out of constructive things to say so bye.

[easttexaslefty]

90. No, I believe you said," it was a pos cowardice"

What I said is that you need to educate yourself on suicide. Sadly, this a subject I do know way to much about. I lost my son to suicide 9/11/07. He was no coward. Or selfish. Or any of the other stupid things I've read on this thread.

[leftyohiolib]

93. what i said and it's still there was "what a pos coward" refering to him leaving his family

i was not talking about you son or suicide. the fact that times got hard and he decide to leave his diabetic wife with all their kids one of whom has epilepsy. why didnt you read the post you could have easily gone back and actually read what i said. how did you get that -," it was a pos cowardice"
when that isnt what i wrote? and it is still there?

[chrisa]

72. I know how you could feel that way, but this person was mentally ill.

He probably did not see it that way.

Don't hate the person - hate the illness, and our "weakness" culture that discourages people from getting help.

[leftyohiolib]

82. chrisa, i dont hate this person, ihate what his is doing to his family.

i hate the example he is setting for his kids. times get tough just leave one way or the other. it breaks my heart that people are forced to live like this, lose your job lose your health. but his diabetic wife did nothing to him nor did his daughter with severe epilepsy. instead of thinking of them all he thought of was "how do i get out of this?"

btw we dont know he was mentally ill or if his threat is even real. most people who want to kill themselves take sleeping pills or jump off something. they dont post "goodbye cruell world" notes on youtube.

[Shagbark Hickory]

102. Sorry honey. Sorry kids.

Times are tough but good luck. You're on your own.
I'm outtie.

[lynne]

30. Dramatic license, IMO.

This has received a lot of attention. Had he done what he threatened, it would be front and center in the media. If not the MSM, certainly on the blogosphere. Had he done it, he would be nothing more than a selfish coward to leave his family in such a way.

Liar or coward. Either way not a good recommendation.

[Avalux]

32. How do we know this is real? And if real, why publicize?

There's just something about this that doesn't ring true to me. And if it is true - I feel for the wife and children who will be left here to survive on their own. He's ruined their lives.

[Fumesucker]

40. Yep, this entire financial meltdown is the guy's fault..

It's good to have a scapegoat, keeps the proles from noticing who the real bad guys are.

[NNN0LHI]

41. I highly discourage this type of behavior

[AsahinaKimi]

44. When people like him die....

The 1% call it a win. きもい しんじまえ 1%!!

[geek tragedy]

46. Something doesn't pass the smell test here.

Two weeks off work, and he decides to screw over his family by killing himself (that'll help pay the bills!) and then throws in schmaltzy language lifted from OWS?

Not buying it.

[Blasphemer]

47. Neither am I.... Frank Capra and Philip Van Doren Stern did it a lot better

While people can certainly be driven to suicide due to the trauma associated with facing financial ruination, there is also a potentially exploitative component here that raises some doubts. There is no doubt that health care and mental health care inadequacies are a result of the wealth gap so if this man is really in need of help, I hope he can be identified. It would certainly serve the movement better if action can be taken for those who have truly lost all hope.

[Enrique]

103. maybe we'll see this on RW blogs

like Breitbart or whatever. "OWSers can't take 2 weeks of unemployment before killing themselves."

[Glimmer of Hope]

48. Depression is very dangerous when not treated. I hope he has second thoughts.

[Doctor_J]

52. Can't he move to France and get medical care?

[Capitalocracy]

63. Assuming it is true...

I hope he changes his mind and decides to take his own advice.

[Skidmore]

66. If someone is truly in despair and can find no solutions

when life is spiraling out of control, suicide can be come the only answer to resolve pain. For the past two months, my siblings and I were trying to provide support for a brother who had several major life traumas occur within a very short period of time. He was having severe problems coping and we did everything we could, but it was not enough to calm his fears and anxiety nor lighten his depression. Early last week, he attempted suicide. His attempt was unsuccessful because we had been paying attention to what he was saying and how he was acting beforehand. I don't know what else we could have done. He truly gave up and thought not living was the only option. This truly gentle soul did not strike back at the source of his pain, he struck inwards and sought to destroy himself. We all cope differently and with our own set of skills. None of us know what the man who wrote the letter was bearing beyond what he says.

[easttexaslefty]

80. Skidmore.

Exactly. Beautifully stated.

[renate]

83. I'm so sorry for your brother's pain

... and so glad you and your siblings were paying attention. I hope his life gets better soon. :hug:

[Liberal_in_LA]

84. I'm glad your brother's sucide attempt was thwarted. Sorry he's in pain.

:-(

[Codeine]

70. Oh please. You'd have to be the most gullible person on earth to buy this.

Complete baloney, but +1 for dramatic flair, I suppose. :eyes:

[Liberal_in_LA]

79. I took a suicide prevention class - the instructor emphasized - ALWAYS take a suicide threat serious

seriously. ALWAYS!

[Codeine]

85. But without a name it's not a threat,

it's just LiveJournal-level drama-llama fantasies.

[lapislzi]

71. Recent experience with a suicide.

A college student with dysfunctional family history recently hanged himself in the basement of his parents' home while his girlfriend and brother were upstairs watching TV. Parents divorced, unavailable. The girlfriend, daughter of a colleague found him, did the 911 stuff, went to the hospital. Fortunately her very together parents were able to come to the hospital also, but my first impression upon hearing of the young man's manner of suicide, was "how cruel."

I don't presume to question a person's motivations for taking themselves out, but neither can I wrap my head around the mind set that leaves others to find your remains.

[Liberal_in_LA]

81. How horrible. I don't question anyone else's motivation.

[Shagbark Hickory]

99. Why not? Suicide is murder.

And every murderer has a motive.

[MadrasT]

87. I am truly amazed...

I am truly amazed by some of the folks here who have the audacity to heap scorn and derision upon anyone who is depressed enough to TAKE HIS OWN LIFE.

What part of "That's the only way out he could see" is hard to understand?

What part of "I just want the insufferable pain to stop" is hard to understand?

Some here are criticizing a suicidal person for NOT THINKING RATIONALLY?

That is the most absurd thing I've ever heard.

I have been this depressed, and trust me, "thinking clearly or rationally" is not something you're capable of when you hurt this badly.

If you were capable of that... you wouldn't think killing yourself was a good solution.

A suicidal person can't think about "is this selfish", they already think they have NOTHING TO LIVE FOR, "selfish" is a moot point.

Unbelievable.

Clearly some of you have no experience with mental illness.

[seabeyond]

89. your argument is what always gets me when people argue this. it is totally ignoring ALL the reality

of what a person contemplatig suicide goes thru. the chemical change in the mind. the unbearable pain. unbearable. that word means something. the person cannot bear the pain. not kinda tough pain. unbearable....

[DiverDave]

97. Hit the nail on the head

there are some truly heartless fucks on this board.

Heartless.

[NorthCarolina]

101. It is selfishness, but not on the part of this poor gentleman.

Perhaps he felt that once he was out of the way, his family could receive the medical care they need.

[seabeyond]

88. people say selfish. i dont agree. people say cruel. again, i dont agree

people say weak. surprise, i dont agree.

i watched a woman go thru the process of grounded, healthy, balanced woman, to suicide.

there is so much in the process, that these descriptions ignore. i find them to be about par, that it is a sin and the person is going to hell. doesnt even skim the surface of the whole suicide thing.

i feel for what the man went thru prior. i am sad for the loss of those tht love him. and i hope with all that i have, that they can put this in a loving place and not assume the guilt or i wish... that follow a suicide.

[Codeine]

92. I just say fake.

Absolute baloney. It's too pat, too cliche, and too obviously tweaked for maximum political impact.

[seabeyond]

94. could be. a little secret

i am suuccccch. a sucker.

[Shagbark Hickory]

100. Suicide is murder and each case is different. Wouldn't you say?

Bernie Madoff's son didn't kill himself for the same reason the woman you watched did.

[seabeyond]

104. then maybe we ought to take that into account before making some of these statements

wouldnt you agree?

[haele]

96. Sounds as if he feels he could better provide for the short term this way.

Hoping that his survivors could make it through the insurance policy for a few years, just as they would if he were killed in an auto accident, etc.

Back in the late 90's, one of my contractor co-workers used to talk like that - even if we told him to look for other help, he just kept falling deeper in a financial hole with family medical costs and was becoming more depressed. It didn't help that at the time, even though we were being paid fairly well for the field we were in, we only had about ten and a half months of work a year for a couple years, and would often spend two/three weeks without pay while waiting for the next contract to come in. Our bennies would remain and we were still covered under insurance, 401K matching, vesting, etc... we just wouldn't have a pay check for a week or two that year. If we "quit", there were very, very few jobs that were more stable or paid better, so we'd stay on, as others in our field did.
So, other than therapy or some form of relatively meaningless if you were already practicing it "financial education" support there was nothing really available that would help him other than winning a lottery.
He was starting to take more sick time off (wasn't feeling too well), and finally didn't come back to work after a three week furlough. He went down to Mexico on a guy's weekend off dune-buggy trip with some of his buddies, and was apparently killed in an off-road wreck. We never really knew if he meant it to go that way or not, but the insurance policy on his house paid the house off, and his life insurance through the company gave his wife and kid a few years to get bills paid off and to start a new life.
He apparently thought that was a better way to provide than what he was doing before - and if he wasn't strong enough to see it through, or might have found he was seriously sick and needed to quit, he might have taken that route other than "be more of a burden". And he's probably not the only person of my acquaintance - or anyone else here's acquaintance, who has not had to face that question on their own in the dark of the night during a particularly nasty financial time.

If a guy (or gal) goes through life getting it beaten into him that he's nothing more than a commodity, when he breaks, it's not apparent - not to him, at least - that it's any more "selfish" if he throws himself away while he's able to at least keep things from getting "worse" for those who remain than if the company he works for throws him away and leaves them all flailing away in mid-air on their way to a financial trash heap.

Haele