Close down the Football program at Penn State NEXT YEAR....

[WCGreen]

And the years to come...

Don't punish the kids on the field for something that happened when they were in Junior High and High School.

Punish the people who covered it up, who let it happen.

I know that this isn't popular, but it is the right thing to do to the kids who had nothing to do with what happened with Sandusky.

Give the seniors a chance to go out on top and allow all the players to transfer to other schools with Penn State paying for for their tuition.

And what about the kids playing for Nebraska, Ohio State and Wisconsin?

Take Penn State out of the Bowl situation which will be a large problem for the school because they are having a good year.

Again, I know this isn't popular, but why ruin the kids who had nothing at all to do with what happened.

Everyone who had anything to do with cover-up should be punished to the full extent of the law.

[elleng]

1. so punish all the current students, players and fans for sins of a few

idiots; swell idea.

[WCGreen]

3. I think you didn't read the post...

Let them play out this year and then shut it down next year.

Give the kids playing now a chance to play out the season and then let them transfer to other programs on Penn States dime...

[elleng]

13. I did read post, and I affirm the comment.

Most of the kids playing likely would play next couple years, same 'harm' to other students and fans, and do you have any idea the grief involved in transferring 'to other programs?'

Kick the perp + enablers hard, and let life continue for everyone else; it will still be difficult, at best.

[MilesColtrane]

19. It's not just a few bad actors in this.

It is an insular culture that glorifies Penn State football above everything including human decency.

An apt analogy would be the giant banks. Sure you can fire and prosecute certain players in the housing/derivatives meltdown, but you'll continue to get debacles like this until you fundamentally change the culture of the corporations involved.

There is a lack of institutional control over the Penn State football program. The program needs to go away for a while and the school needs to refocus on its mission.

When Penn State displays accountability due to who it hires and what rules it puts into place for the future, then the discussion about restarting the football program can begin.

Oh, and you've got it backwards, it wouldn't be the NCAA punishing those kids, it would be everyone involved in the scandal and the school itself. Penn State brought this upon its student athletes the moment its teachers and administrators decided that football was more important than criminal justice.

[KeepItReal]

2. Penn State or the NCAA or the PA government needs to stop the season ASAP

And do a forensic investigation of EVERYONE who works in and around the football program to find out who knew what and kept silent for the benefit of the football program.

Nobody is gonna penalize the Penn State athletes if the season is cancelled today. What is one more victory or one more bowl game going to mean *NOW*? Their coaches and staff sold out the program long ago.

[WCGreen]

6. If you are a senior and worked your whole life to get to this point

and you don't have a chance at a pro career, that would be a huge blow.

Those kids have worked really hard to be the best of the best and get to this point.

To take that away from them is, to me, a tragedy.

[Bluenorthwest]

9. Well they are not the best if they are not going pro...

and somehow these 'kids' who are grown adults missing a ball game is not really what I see as the tragedy here. These are adults. There are actual victims who were actual kids.
Sports culture astounds me.

[WCGreen]

16. If it was what you were working toward for your whole life....

These kids had nothing to do with those kids.

[KeepItReal]

10. A pro career is guaranteed to no one. Paterno et als sold those athletes out.

They can still get their degrees and if they have shown their skills on the field up to this point, a professional football career won't be denied to them.

The underclassmen can and should leave for greener pastures if staying and getting a Penn St. degree is not enough.

[TBF]

11. If they are a senior and only have a few more games - the recruiters already know

if they are potential for the pros or not. This is a very silly argument imo.

[WCGreen]

15. What if they are not...

Think about how hard these guys have worked for years to get to this point.

To have you slough off their dedication to their sport is a very cavalier take on someone else's life, imo.

[TBF]

23. If they are good other schools are going to be contacting them as quick as they can -

that's how it works. I went to Wisconsin, those guys were stars while they were still on campus (Al Toon was a senior while I was a freshman).

Everyone knew who was going to the pros - and they knew which younger guys had the most potential. They will be ok.

[DrDan]

4. once those involved are appropriately punished, why would PSU need to end their program?

And your suggestion would punish non-seniors currently in the program. Finding a new school and athletic program would not be an easy task - particularly for those currently on scholarship.

[WCGreen]

7. not end the program...

Shut it down until the investigation is complete...

[MadBadger]

28. "Next Year and the Years to come"

So thats now what it sounds like?

[KharmaTrain]

5. College Football Isn't Above The Law...

I'm with you in shutting down what is now a mortally tainted program. All current players should be able to transfer to another school without loss of eligibility...or if they choose to stay at PSU to honor their scholarships. This program needs a thorough independent investigation and anyone who abetted in this sorrid situation (knowing and not reporting is being complicit in my book) should be dismissed from anything to do with the athletic program and, if necessary, face criminal prosecution.

It's also time for the NCAA to step up...their credibility is on the line as much as Penn State. I think the season should be suspended...and if not that...at least prohibit the school from any post season play until there's a full accounting. Sorry Penn State...your "leaders" and "heroes" forfeited this season by enabling a pedophile to run amok and then think that the school and "the program" were above the law.

It's time colleges got back to education not as a big money farm system for the NFL and NBA...

[WCGreen]

8. Exactly!

[Are_grits_groceries]

12. Lester Munson who is a lawyer and comments on legal issues for ESPN

recommended that PSU shut down the program for 2 years.

He said that Paterno was there for so long and had such power that the football program was untouchable. He said that keeping a great face on it and the university as a whole was so important that ignoring the law and ethics was embedded in the culture.

He didn't say it, but a lot of the members of the Board of Trustees were Paterno's friends. I think their actions need to be scrutinized. They did do the right thing by firing Paterno and the President of PSU, but I know some of them would have fought it except the charges were so heinous. Corbett was going to attend that meeting, but I think they acted without him. I'll bet he got through to them and told them to cut their losses.

They want to try to control the message, but it s well past that point.

[WCGreen]

17. Two years is a good punishment...

Still, I would like the players in place now get a chance to finish out the season.

[dmallind]

14. What exactly is the culpability of a game?

Did everybody who plays, watches or likes the game rape the kid or hush it up? Is child-rape inherent or particular to college football at Penn State? Assuming all agree no to both, what does killing a game do to either help the victim, spare other victims or even punish the truly guilty?

FWIW I truly could not care less if all college football, even all college sports, ended tomorrow. But appropriate justice I do care about.

[elleng]

22. Right; none.

[Scuba]

18. I would argue that the institution should not be punished...

... there should be no sanctions for the football program.


I would also argue that anyone in or out of the institution who was involved in the crimes, who helped cover up the crimes, or who knew about the crims and failed to report them to proper legal authorities should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.

[elleng]

20. I'm with you, Scuba.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

21. Agreed. The death penalty is *absolutely* warranted.

The NCAA has issued the death penalty 5 times.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_penalty_(NCAA)

1. The University of Kentucky basketball program for the 1952–53 season point shaving scandal

2. The basketball program at the University of Southwestern Louisiana (now the University of Louisiana at Lafayette) for the 1973–74 and 1974–75 seasons academic fraud, recruiting violations and improper financial assistance

3. The Southern Methodist University football program for the 1987 and 1988 seasons recruiting violations

4. The Division II men's soccer program at Morehouse College for the 2004 and 2005 seasons team included two players that had played minor league professional soccer

5. The Division III men's tennis program at MacMurray College for the 2005–06 and 2006–07 seasons obtained scholarships for foreign born students; Division III schools are not allowed to offer scholarships

Penn State University Football; child sex scandal and cover-up

You say nay? The death penalty is not deserved.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mV1LzXf1TKQ

[TBF]

25. I agree - a year or two would be appropriate and give the trustees time

to fix this mess. Can you imagine being in their shoes right now?

[RainDog]

27. How can they NOT do this, considering other actions that warranted it?

and in this case, the action must be far-reaching and more severe than these other cases.

[Marnie]

24. Who are they going to be able to recruit now?

Effectively it is a dead program for at least a couple of years.

If they are smart the school will close the program 100%, end it. That way they can gracefully remove anyone in the sports program associated with the rapes. Let's face it there will always be suspicions that more men saw and said and did nothing at all. They must all go. Every one in the program.

And they can release their players to be recruited else where. Hopefully they will find some kind of financial help for the less talented practice team members so that they can complete their degrees.

The school can then, if it wants wait a few years and start building a new program with completely new employees.
Otherwise the stain will remain for many years.

[bluedigger]

26. For a few years, yes.

If they wish to continue their regular season they can. I don't think they should go to a Bowl, though. It seems like a Bowl would have to be pretty desperate to want them, given the inevitable negative publicity. They might get an autobid to the Rose Bowl...

But then they need to clean house, as they have already begun. Everybody associated with the football program has to go, from the janitors and administrative assistants to the laundryman. They are now all tainted with the Cult of Paterno. Then they need to tear out the shower rooms and obliterate the scene of the crime. In two to four years they can, and should, begin again.

The school should honor it's scholarships, should any of the team choose to stay on. Those who wish to transfer should have little trouble finding other teams - they are coming from one of the premier programs in the land, after all. Some may be disadvantaged, and others find better opportunities.

[rocktivity]

29. Absolutely not. Keeping the football program is the most definitive way of saying

that the game is not bigger than any one player, coach, booster, supporter, advertiser, owner, institution or even fan. The best thing the Penn State football program can do is roll on and show that there is life after Paterno.

Paterno and Co. may have believed that the preservation of football was more important than justice for an innocent child. But that's THEIR fault, not football's.

"why ruin the kids who had nothing at all to do with what happened?" Because shutting down the program WOULD hurt the kids who had nothing at all to do with what happened?


rocktivity

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

37. you're thinking about the *WRONG* kids

Remember, this is about the *boys that were molested* by a corrupt football program and educational institution. Those are the kids that didn't do anything wrong. Those are the victims.

The NCAA has issued the death penalty 5 times already, and it wasn't fair to all of the student athletes then, just as it wouldn't be, now, should they issue it to PSU, which they *ABSOLUTELY* should do.

Let's assume for a moment that the NCAA will cancel the remainder of the 2011 season (which they won't do). The seniors have already played 10 games. Not too long ago, 10 games was an entire season. And even more recently, PSU teams weren't going to bowl games. It's not that big a deal.

The lives of the molested boys and their families, as well as those of the Penn State players, have already been irreparably altered. At least, for the players, they can start anew at a school like Ohio State, Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin, Pitt, Rutgers, Stanford, etc..

[former9thward]

30. No way. The football players have done nothing wrong.

They should not lose their bowl invitation or any other penalty relating to the football program. Let the law deal with the law breakers.

[Taverner]

31. Hell, clean house, fire EVERYONE who covered up, knew about or looked the other way

Fire them ALL and give many of them jail sentences

Then start football season again, new staff, new everything

Seems simple to me

[alcibiades_mystery]

32. None of that is going to happen

There are going to be no NCAA sanctions because there was no NCAA violation.

[tammywammy]

34. That's the assumption I was under.

I don't think the NCAA should overstep their bounds and kill the program.

Also transferring schools isn't an easy task. Not all credits will transfer and will tack on unnecessary time onto students.

[WCGreen]

35. I did my jjob...

I wanted to introduce another way to look at this...

I still feel exactly as I did when I first posted this.

It's a hard subject to deal with. This is the only place I know were so many view points can be considered without acrimony...

Another example why DU is the best damn board in all the land, to bastardize my Ohio State's Marching band motto...

[elleng]

36. Thanks. Xposting this elsewhere here, to demonstrate what you've said.

[TransitJohn]

38. Where were the NCAA violations?

:shrug:

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

39. Interesting question. Here's what I found.

I had to think twice about this before I considered it a legitimate question. But then I did a little digging and this is what I found.

If the NCAA looks at sanctioning Penn State, it appears it would include looking at NCAA Bylaw 2.4, on "principles of sportsmanship and ethical conduct," which calls for "intercollegiate athletics to promote the character development of participants ... . These values should be manifest not only in athletics participation but also in the broad spectrum of activities affecting the athletics program."

This broad bylaw typically has been used to regulate behavior such as trash-talking during a game. It appears to be unprecedented to use the bylaw to penalize an institution over ethical conduct. But this obviously is an unprecedented circumstance that has unfolded in State College.

...they are alleged crimes, but the alleged crimes are horrific. That takes it to another level. Some of the infractions that have occurred in the past did not reach the level of criminality.

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/college/football/view.bg?articleid=1380144&format=&page=2&listingType=colfb#articleFull