Airlines creating 'baby ghettos" in back of plane.

[Liberal_in_LA]

article posted because of term "baby ghetto }(

Flying With Little Children? Go to the Back of the Plane

Babies on airplanes. It's enough to make parents—and all the passengers around them—cry.

Most airlines are now seating parents with babies in the back of the plane. Quietly, airlines are blocking babies from bulkhead seats and in one case, first class. Leslie Yazel has details on Lunch Break.

Parents are complaining of airline seating policies that create "baby ghettos" in the back of planes. Even worse, families are increasingly split up, leaving small children in middle seats in the company of strangers unless passengers arrange seat swaps on board.

Michael Lyon booked seats together for his family for a trip from Washington, D.C., to Bangkok on United Airlines in July and checked his reservation frequently to make sure the seat assignments didn't change. But when he checked in, all three had been split up, and his 6-year-old son was moved to the back of the wide-body plane by himself for the 13-hour trip.

A United gate agent told Mr. Lyon there were no seats and nothing could be done. He protested, ultimately getting a supervisor who found two seats together so he could sit with his son. "Not only did the United gate staff not seem to understand the importance of having him next to us, they were hostile," Mr. Lyon said.
-------------------

Several factors are at play. First, many seats on flights are reserved for elite-level frequent fliers or full-fare business travelers. Routinely full flights have less seat-assignment flexibility. Also, airlines are increasingly selling choice seat assignments for extra fees, an expensive option for families. And bulkhead rows at the front of coach cabins that used to be ideal for traveling with infants, offering more privacy for diaper changes and more space for restless toddlers, now have to be reserved for passengers with disabilities. As a result, families often end up separated or at the back of the plane.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204517204577042111627445348.html

[slackmaster]

1. That's where they used to put smokers

:kick:

[apples and oranges]

28. First they came for the smokers, then the Muslims, then the fat people,

then the scantily clad women, and now, the babies. Who's next?

[Liberal_in_LA]

41. +1000

[badtoworse]

43. They should have left the scantily clad women alone - nt

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

47. The smoking fat babies? nt

[Cid_B]

80. They already found him...

[TheDebbieDee]

110. This baby quit smoking!

[name not needed]

85. The scantily-clad fat Muslim smoking babies, of course.

[Skittles]

2. people, a couple of foam earplugs works well against crying babies

[ChairmanAgnostic]

15. they are too small for their mouths. besides, they

could accidentally swallow them.

[Liberal In Texas]

29. ROFL

[Brother Buzz]

50. DUzy material

:thumbsup:

[pitohui]

65. foam earplugs do absolutely nothing against crying babies if you have a heart

at least for women, if you have natural human kindness, the earplugs do absolutely nothing, a screaming baby tears at your heart & soul to hear the suffering

and it is all so unnecessary, what's that saying you always hear? they grow up so fast...so give a few years before you stuff 'em on an airplane

[customerserviceguy]

81. What do you do about the seatkickers? n/t

[Skittles]

88. they don't really bother me

heck, a child threw cheese cubes at me on a flight to England - his parents were sleeping - I started tossing 'em back - we had a cheese cube fight for over an hour - his parents were SO mystified when they woke up covered in cheese cubes :D

[MattBaggins]

92. See now that a creative proactive solution

You just won the internets

[malaise]

3. Simple

Boycott them

[FSogol]

4. Boycott babies?

;)

[Kolesar]

5. "baby ghettos"

At least they don't have to quit school and work in a knitting mill.

[WildNovember]

6. That doesn't make sense. I can understand segregating families with kids but putting all the kids

in the back by themselves doesn't make sense at all. Seems like the kids would be even more likely to cry, run around, annoy others if their parents weren't with them.

[dipsydoodle]

9. Yes

that is an absurdity.

[Liberal_in_LA]

32. agreed. weird policy

[pitohui]

66. it isn't the policy, it's more bad writing at wsj

why do people still quote that piece of crap "news" source for anything except a cheap laugh?

[freshwest]

61. Yes, it's not logical.

[JVS]

94. It depends on just how negligent their parents are

[WildNovember]

95. If that's the thinking behind the policy, it seems to assume all children's parents are negligent.

[undeterred]

7. Screaming Toddler Airlines

I just had a flash of a big soundproofed area with screaming children running around inside it on the back of a plane...nobody passes through during the whole flight.

[mike_c]

8. having spent many hours trapped next to screaming children on airplanes...

...I can only applaud and hope to avoid that general part of the cabin myself. I used to joke that I'd like to carry a roll of silver duct tape in my carry-on so that when the kid in the adjoining seat starts screaming and squirming, I can pull out the roll of tape, rip off a short length to indicate it's strength and stickiness, and offer it to the hapless parent with the comment "Guess you forgot the 'parent's friend', huh?" :rofl:

[Xicano]

14. Bill Cosby - "Jeffery"

This thread reminds me of Bill Cosby talking about little Jeffery. :7

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fs0cYJUqJys

[Irishonly]

40. I loved it!

[Blue_Tires]

42. CLASSIC

[cutlassmama]

21. +1

[ChairmanAgnostic]

10. can't they just stow them with the luggage?

[treestar]

83. lol

[taught_me_patience]

11. The solution is baby ambien

just knock them out!

[virgogal]

16. Benadryl-----works like a charm.

[pennylane100]

19. actuall, benedryl is much safer

the use it in hospitals to sedate babies, however, sometimes it can have the reverse reaction and then you are in big trouble.

[WolverineDG]

99. Brandy in the baby bottle

a little dab will do ya.

dg

[meow2u3]

12. Johnny/Jenny Crow?

Criminal elites don't want to hear someone else's children screaming in pain from the inevitable ear pressure change of takeoff and landing, so they treat parents the same way the Jim Crow South and Apartheid South Africa treated non-whites--like second-class citizens.

They're the same knuckleheads who go on camera touting family values and the importance of our next generation. I guess we should call this airline policy "Johnny (or Jenny) Crow."

[ProgressiveProfessor]

23. If that was all there was to it, it would be fine

There are a lot of little angels who parents can not and do not control.. Kicking seats, running down the aisles. Much more of a problem than a baby with ear issues.

[badtoworse]

45. +1

[badtoworse]

48. I'm Gold Elite (on Continental), I never heard of "Criminal Elite"

When do they board?

[pitohui]

68. you have more money/miles/travel knowledge than the jealous poster

and don't you know, it's criminal to have more of something (money or miles) or to be more knowledgeable about something (sane travel) than the envious person...

[badtoworse]

84. I'm a business traveler

People who are jealous of that should fly 50 or 100 thousand miles a year for a few years and see if they're still jealous. Business travel can be a grind.

[Major Nikon]

90. Not if you have your own airline

Getting there and back is my favorite part.

[badtoworse]

93. I take it your a private pilot and own your own plane.

If so, that's pretty cool, but there is something to be said for First Class on a transatlantic flight.

[Major Nikon]

96. Business class would be a nice way to go

I asked my wife if she would dress up like a 60's stewardess. I even offered to get a pilot uniform with 6 or 7 stripes on the shoulders. Unfortunately she wouldn't go for it. Beverage and lunch service consists of whatever we throw in the cooler.

A buddy of mine has a Cessna 421, and get manages to make it from Texas to New York in pressurized comfort up in the flight levels and usually faster overall than the airlines. My trips aren't quite that swanky, but still lots of fun.

[badtoworse]

106. Sounds like you do have fun. Stay safe.

[WolverineDG]

100. OH PUH LEEZE

Please explain just HOW assigning seats in the backs of planes to passengers travelling with small children in any realistic way equates to Jim Crow & Apartheid. F.F.S. Melodramatic much?

They are still getting the same things that everyone else is getting: a seat on the plane.

dg

[Number23]

102. That's the most astoundingly dumb thing I've seen today

If you think sitting in the back of an airplane is in ANY way comparable to Jim Crow or apartheid, I don't even know what to tell you.

And I actually agree with you that the policy of shuffling families with small children to the back of a plan really stinks. But you killed your argument with that truly stupid Jim Crow comparison.

[thelordofhell]

13. 'Cause jerks don't wanna hear children cry///So they stick 'em in the back when they try to fly

In the ghettoooooooooooo

[HappyMe]

17. Sweet!

The next step would be just have all the families with little kids and babies fly on one plane.

The rest of us can fly in blissful silence!

[madinmaryland]

18. "offering more privacy for diaper changes" WTF?????

People change the diapers in the middle of plane?? Use the bathrooms douchebags!!

[pennylane100]

25. I think it would be very hard to change a child that was over a year old

in the small bathrooms, especially if they are determined to role over or wiggle around. If it is done right, with a waterproof sheet covering the seat and the baby if it is a boy, there should be no mess left behind.

[HappyMe]

27. Hey! You gotta problem with

Sweetiepie Angel's fecal matter?? Huh, do ya?

:evilgrin:

[Blue_Tires]

44. I've been on a few international flights where it's been done

fun times...

[Codeine]

I remember a HUGE flamewar here in GD about diapers being changed

in the cabin. Several posters thought changer a shit diaper right in front of other passengers was just jim-dandy.

[hlthe2b]

89. Oh Gawd....how well I remember

I could not believe some of those posts...
"Feces on your food tray? What's the big deal--it's all natural"

Good gawd

[WolverineDG]

101. during meal service, no less

I remember that thread.....

dg

[Warpy]

20. You're a lot more likely to survive a crash if you're in the back

Maybe that's how the baby ghetto can best be sold to parents.

Kids under 3 are going to cry on airplanes, that's a given. Pressure changes make their ears hurt and they don't know what to do about it and all parents can do is give them something to suck on and hope that equalizes the pressure in little ears.

However, expecting kids older than 3 to stay there is utterly ridiculous. Expecting a kid to fly solo, separating him from his parents on the flight is even more ridiculous.

Common sense seems to be the most uncommon commodity on the face of the earth.

[HappyMe]

30. They should just have the whole dang family fly back there then.

[Warpy]

35. That would be the most sensible thing, IMO

which is probably why it never occurred to them.

[truebrit71]

31. ...that's right...because pilots never knowingly reverse into hillsides...

...:evilgrin:

[Wait Wut]

22. Someone needs to find a solution.

I have a weird nervous disorder. I can NOT tolerate noise. It doesn't just "bug" me. I become irrational and almost hysterical if it isn't stopped. My husband has to vacuum when I'm not home.

A baby crying for more than 5-10 minutes will push me over the edge. I'll start fidgeting, then staring, until I eventually will have to request the parents do SOMETHING. Now, one parent, who had an otherwise sweet 8 year old boy, was near her own limits while we were flying through a thunderstorm. Her son was uncontrollable and between us two. She finally looked at me in desperation and said, I can't help him. I asked her to switch seats with me so I could sit by the window. I took his hand and asked him to look at how beautiful the lightening was. Each time a flash, he squeezed my hand tighter. Within about 10 minutes he was actually excited by the storm...and his mother fell asleep. :P

You see, I don't hate babies and children. They're amazing little people. It's the noise that emanates from them that makes me think about how hard it would be to pry one of the windows open. Their little ears can be a serious problem for them when flying. Talk to your pediatrician before subjecting us nutcases to their screaming for 4 hours. If your kid is a total brat (come on, be serious...is he?) then bring something to keep him occupied besides one coloring book. If you think you won't be able to control him for an entire flight...take a train, bus, boat, hot air balloon or camel.

[thelordofhell]

38. Heaven forbid you do something about your disorder

What's the name of it..........sonic distress syndrome? :-)

[Wait Wut]

49. No way.

Then I'd have to vacuum.

And, I thought sonic distress syndrome is what I got the last (and first) time I ate at Sonic?

[thelordofhell]

86. No that was Sonic Diarrhea

After Sonic you go home
And your pants are full of foam
Diarrhea......Diarrhea

[pitohui]

70. asperger's is one common disorder that has this symptom

there is no genuine treatment or cure for asperger's

i won't guess at this poster's problem but being noise-sensitive is not really rare among otherwise well functioning adults and there is not really any good treatment i'm aware of

women in particular, it can feel like your heart is being torn out to hear a baby cry and you can't do anything to stop the baby's pain and it's clear the parents won't or can't do anything either

it would be nice if all parents loved their children, and it is very difficult for many people to be brought face to face with the reality that a great many parents, and not just poor people in difficulties who might have some excuse, but ordinary enough looking people, are just monsters who truly do not care

if there's a cure for feeling bad when you're brought face to face w. sociopaths, let us know, we'd ALL like a piece

[geardaddy]

24. This oughta be good.

:popcorn:

[LadyHawkAZ]

26. Holy cow!

I like children at a minimum 40 foot distance, and would have no problem with a family-only area for kids on a plane. But splitting them up and placing a small child alone away from parents?? WTF?

[MorningGlow]

33. That is fucked up

I would NEVER allow my kid to be seated far from me in an airplane. In fact, it happened once at the last minute (damned Expedia) and I raised holy hell (politely) till the crew fixed it. Why can't they sell "family section" seats collectively? I don't think anyone would have a problem with that.

Oh, and for the record, I've been flying with my kid since he was 3. It's amazing what a fully stocked goodie bag (games, toys, snacks, surprises) can do to keep a kid from being a little terror on a plane.

[CreekDog]

58. Do people really think that the parents are sitting one place and babies elsewhere?

:rofl:

[pitohui]

72. oh, the people who don't fly and who believe everything they read apparently do

i wish people would get a little more real world experience before quoting WALL STREET JOURNAL of all piecces of horseshit as a newsource

[CreekDog]

76. i believe airlines will split up families with seats reserved together

my seat assignments have been cancelled more than once and i've certainly heard it happening to families and the article does show that they tried to split up a family with a young child.

that's wrong.

[MorningGlow]

73. Who said "babies"?

:wtf:

[uppityperson]

75. OP says this happened, not a baby but a 6 yr old.

[CreekDog]

77. I stand corrected --you're right. I overlooked that.

There is no way a parent/guardian of a 6 year old, especially one who has reserved seats together, should be cancelled and asked to sit apart.

That's just wrong.

And United? Well, I'll hold my tongue on that one.

[blueamy66]

105. shit, i flew non-rev for many of my childhood years

I learned how to be polite and sit where I was told to sit...mzny times not next to a parent.... and guess what?? I lived!!!

[MorningGlow]

107. Were you 5 years old? My kid was at the time. n/t

[blueamy66]

108. from 2 to teenage years

I was taught how to behave by my parents. I guess parents don't teach their kiddos how to behave anymore. If I misbehaved, a nice pull of my ear or smack on the leg did the trick. But I'd bet these days CPS would be called.

Anyway, back to my point......raise your kids well

[MorningGlow]

109. Okay, you just lost me

When did this become about children's behavior or misbehavior? Or perhaps you didn't mean to reply to me? I'm not talking about a child's misbehaving on a plane trip; I'm taking about a child's discomfort being apart from a parent for several hours in a strange environment, sitting among total strangers and likely unable to see where his/her parent is most of the time. While I'm thrilled that you were such a trouper that you could fly unaccompanied at the age of 2, I think most very small children would be rather freaked out at having to sit among strangers for several hours. I don't think that's fair to the child.

Oh, and my son is one of the best-behaved kids you'll find anywhere; his teachers all say the same thing, every year: "I wish I had a classroom full of MG Jrs!" And for the record, that's without ever smacking him.

[LanternWaste]

34. It should make everyone happy...

It's both separate and equal-- that should make everyone happy...

[Donald Ian Rankin]

36. Well, we don't let babies vote... N.T.

[LanternWaste]

46. Precisely. Anyone who cannot vote should be treated

Precisely. Anyone who cannot vote should be treated separately and equally.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

79. You want equal treatment for babies? N.T.

[Scout]

37. i don't understand why some people have such a hard time understanding....

that the crying of a baby is SUPPOSED to be annoying to the point of not being able to tolerate it ... how else can a baby get their needs met, except by crying?

adults are SUPPOSED to be annoyed, have an adverse reaction to the crying of a baby or child. it is normal and natural to not want to be around crying babies, especially if you can't do anything to stop the crying.

i'm damn sick of the people who try to make me feel guilty for being normal. yeah, the baby can't help crying, and i can't help being annoyed by it.

[marmar]

52. delete, responded to wrong post

nt

[ProgressiveProfessor]

54. If it was just babies in need, I would agree with you

[pitohui]

74. thank you, scout, at last a normal human being w. normal human responses

people who aren't worried by a baby's piercing screaming cries...those people SCARE me

[Turbineguy]

39. Yes. Smart move

it's where the plane sways the most insuring babies the greatest discomfort.

[hedgehog]

51. Sometimes babies and toddlers cry on planes - they're exhausted

by the tension of so much new stimulus and their ears hurt. That's not a problem.

Sometimes little kids kick my seat. That's not a problem.

Sometimes the American equivalent of Eurotrash gets on the same flight as me and proceeds to complain loudly about the service by the overworked flight attendants who've been on their feet for the last 10 hours.

That's a problem!

[marmar]

53. I was seated across from a screaming child on a flight from Detroit to San Francisco......

..... I swear that kid shrieked from somewhere over Lake Michigan to the Rocky Mountains, and boy did he have some pipes.

That said, I disagree with these kinds of policies.

[Blue_Tires]

55. Overblown headline aside, the author is making some leaps here

because since the aft-bulkhead row and overwing exits are 'premium' seats now, the'll go to whoever shells out a few more bucks...getting booted from there and sent to open seats (usually the back because they are last selected) does NOT EQUAL "Airlines are intentionally creating a fourth-class steerage for toddlers and parents"

Of course, the pertinent fact of Mr. Lyon's sob story is buried toward the bottom of the story: There was a last minute aircraft change, almost certainly with a different seating configuration -- Meaning almost certainly a flustered ticket agent scrambled to assign seats and something got lost or missed in the rush...Also, the writer was lazy in talking to the airlines themselves to see what the real policies are instead of just quoting marketing/corporate-speak off their websites...Is there an un-official policy of intentionally putting parents in the back so they don't clog up boarding/unboarding getting the strollers, bags and other caravan stuff out of the overheads? (This actually could have been the real story instead of this sensationalist fluff, but it's not like the WSJ employs reporters anymore)

And even then, just how big of an issue is it? In my observation I've never known people to not switch their seat in deference to parents, and what's the real problem of sitting in the back anyway?

[Taverner]

56. Makes sense to me. Contain the smell of diapers near the toilets.

[Ikonoklast]

78. Why do you hate old people?

[Taverner]

103. Old Folks need to sit closer to First Class...use their bathroom

No one will begrudge Grandparents needing to GO!

[hlthe2b]

57. Hell...as uncomfortable as they have made flying,

It is soon going to be the adults screaming & crying....I may
be among the first.

Funny how less common the uncontrollable
crying among infants was--at least to my
memory--when planes had more air exchange
cycles (and were less crowded)

[JustAnotherGen]

59. Seriously

It doesn't bother me if a little kid is crying. I flew round trip from Newark via London and Rome to Cosenza and back the same route this month.

Did babies cry on lift off and landing? Yeppers - they can't help it. First flight I was in B.A. Club world and heard several screaming kids in Premium Economy and Economy.

Round trip back I was in Premium Economy and we had one in that cabin, and a few screaming their heads off in Club World/business class.

All I could think was, "Poor little kid". :-(

BTW - my 'premium' comes from flying many years - in addition to having Ankylosing Spondylitis. I'd rather hear 100 kids cry for a 6 hour transatlantic flight than try to get out of an economy seat when I back and hips froze from pressure/non use.

[CreekDog]

60. A crying baby is part of the human landscape

If you expect not to hear crying babies in public places, nor see them being fed, you are being unrealistic.

[Myrina]

62. Usually, but for different reasons, airline put 'unaccompanied minors' all together ...

... and they can range from age 7 (tendency to whine and be obnoxious) to 17.

I personally can't stand children, even though I have one of my own, but when she flew to her father's and back for holidays starting at age 8, she knew better than to be a pain in the ass to the flight attendants or rest of the 'fliers' for ANY reason.

:shrug:

[FarCenter]

63. Children should not be let out of their pods until age 21

[Major Nikon]

104. If then

[pitohui]

64. and not a moment too soon

i pretty much know all i have to know about how much somebody who travels w. an infant, who can't understand about changing cabin pressures and why her ears hurt, cares about their child

if they don't care about their screaming brat, then at least put them with other cold-hearted folk who don't care about their screaming brats either -- let all the heartless bastards w. their babies who will in turn grow up to be heartless bastards sit where they can entertain each other!

yeah, and i realize some people dope their kids and then brag about how good their baby is and how their baby is already a million miler, blah blah blah, but i hardly think being exposed to sedatives in infancy is an improvement on having your child undergo inexplicable pain...either way, you're a jerk in my book and you don't belong in first class, frankly, i don't think babies belong on an airplane at all, if there was genuine concern about the CHILD -- i used to babysit for a kid whose parents gave him the sedatives, years later, yep, the kid grew up to be a drug addict

as for the story about the cold hearted airline who separated the 6 yr old from the dad for a flight to BKK, i'm gonna have to call bullshit on that one

[Warren DeMontague]

67. babies on planes, huh?

guess we're done with porn, then.

[DefenseLawyer]

69. Once I had kids I lost the ability to hear crying babies

I do feel bad for the poor parents who have to bear the "I hope you die" stares from the poor bastards that can't cope with some noise.

[joeybee12]

71. You know, it's WSJ, and I don't believe it...I think they're trying to make

a story out of nothing...it's probably people who don't get an assigned seat when they purchase their tickets so they are assigned at the airport, and with so few seats left, then they have to just sit where there are available seats...I've seen flight attendants ASKING people if they could move so families that have been split up can sit together.

[customerserviceguy]

82. United does this?

Good, another reason they are my favorite airline.

There is no reason to drag tiny children across a continent on a six hour airplane ride.

[redqueen]

87. Wow, at first I didn't think it was a big deal...

the back of the plane is the safest place to be in a crash, so I figured it'd be not so bad.

Then I saw the part about splitting families up... wtf.

Crying babies don't annoy me at all. I feel a desire to do something, but beyond that it's just what babies do, so I never got why it's a big deal unless it's in a movie theater or a play or something.

[krabigirl]

91. I don't mind the families being grouped up, but separating kids from their parents?! Unexcusable.

It's happened to us and I wouldn't get on the plane unless they switched it. Yes, they actually tried to force us to have our 22-month-old sit alone! And we had booked seats together months in advance, and confirmed and re-confirmed them several times before we got to the airport.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

97. Why stop there...

Could we also separate redneck honeymooners and Primerica suckers from the rest of the traveling public? I find them much more bothersome than babies.

[WolverineDG]

98. They're closer to the restrooms

wouldn't people with children want to be closer to the restrooms? :shrug:

dg