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Fire Walk With Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-18-11 10:27 PM
Original message
Killer cop to receive $40,000/year pension.
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-fullerton-cop-20111118,0,6586949.story

Fullerton officer charged in Kelly Thomas' death will keep LAPD pension

Cicinelli faces charges of involuntary manslaughter and excessive use of force in the case, and has been placed on unpaid leave by the Fullerton department.

A second officer, Manuel Ramos, 37, was charged with second-degree murder and involuntary manslaughter. Four other officers involved in the case were not charged.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-18-11 10:31 PM
Response to Original message
1. I don't have a problem with this
Edited on Fri Nov-18-11 10:36 PM by dsc
The fact is the LA police in essence forced him to take disability. On edit if he gets convicted that is possibly another matter. I am loathe to see earned pensions taken away for unrelated conduct.
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virgogal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-18-11 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
2. I wasn't aware that he had been convicted.
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PETRUS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-18-11 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
3. Could he lose his pension if convicted?
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provis99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. no.
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ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-18-11 10:35 PM
Response to Original message
4. He should have faced a murder charge too.
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Fire Walk With Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-18-11 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. And there is the problem at the heart of the matter.
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ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. I just don't understand how...
Edited on Sat Nov-19-11 01:21 AM by ellisonz
Ramos gets hit with second degree murder and involuntary manslaughter, but not excessive force or other charges. and Cicinelli only gets hit with involuntary manslaughter and excessive force. Wolfe should be charged with involuntary manslaughter and excessive force - he stood by while both Ramos and Cicinelli acted unlawfully - and joined in with punches tot head, which are against police procedure. They're making Ramos the fall guy for the two white officers.

We are alleging the following facts to support the reasons for our charges: Ramos set in motion the events that led to the death of Kelly Thomas by committing an act that was dangerous to human life with conscious disregard for that life. His actions were reckless and created a high risk of death or great bodily injury, and a reasonable officer would know that acting the way Ramos did would create such a risk.

Cicinelli used excessive force when he assaulted and beat Kelly Thomas, acting recklessly, under the color of authority without lawful necessity.

At about 8:37 p.m. on July 5th, Ramos and Wolfe responded to the Fullerton bus depot in separate vehicles. Ramos knew Kelly Thomas from prior contacts as a homeless person who hung out in the area, and he did not believe Kelly Thomas posed them any risk. Kelly Thomas was shirtless with a backpack, wearing pants with no obvious bulges, and the officers did not think it was necessary to pat him down for weapons.

During the detention, Officer Wolfe stepped 10 to 15 feet away to the rear of his police vehicle to review the contents of the backpack while Ramos gave instructions to Kelly Thomas, who was sitting on the curb, from two feet away.

It was obvious that Kelly Thomas had difficulty following Ramos’ directions to sit with his legs straight out and place his hands on his knees, and it would be obvious to any reasonable observer that Kelly Thomas had cognitive issues and difficulty in following Ramos’ instructions.

After several minutes of increasingly-aggressive instructions, the bus depot video shows Ramos escalating the contact to a physical altercation. It was 16 minutes from the initial time of contact to the beginning of the physical altercation and engagement in unlawful police conduct.

Ramos made a deliberate showing of putting on Latex gloves while he approached Kelly Thomas and stood over him. Ramos repeatedly instructed Kelly Thomas to sit with his hands on his knees and his legs outstretched. Kelly Thomas would temporarily comply and then move his hands behind him in order to lean back on them, or bend his knees in a sitting position.

Ramos stood over Kelly Thomas threateningly as he put on a pair of Latex gloves.

He ordered, “Put your hands on your F-ing knees.”

Ramos then leaned over Kelly Thomas in his menacing manner, made two fists with his gloves on, and lifted his fists to show Kelly Thomas as he said, “Now see my fists? They are getting ready to F you up.”

This declaration was a turning point – a defining moment.

Ramos was telling Kelly Thomas that this encounter had changed from a fairly routine police detention into an impending beating at the hands of an angry police officer. By making this declaration of violence against Kelly Thomas, Ramos instilled in the victim a reasonable fear that his life was in danger by a police officer who wanted to use his fists to F him up.

Police officers have a right to use reasonable force in the performance of their lawful duties, but citizens have a right to self-defense – even against the police – if they are not using reasonable force in the performance of a lawful duty.

Ramos took this contact from a lawful detention to an unlawful use of excessive force when he lifted his fists and told Kelly Thomas that he was getting ready to F him up.

There followed a brief exchange of words as Kelly Thomas remained seated. Then Ramos grabbed Kelly Thomas by the back of the arm. Kelly Thomas pulled away, stood, and began stepping away from Ramos.

Then the baton came out. Kelly Thomas lifted his hands to chest-height with his palms open in a defensive stance. Ramos yelled at Kelly Thomas to “get on the ground.”

Officer Wolfe ran over toward the altercation from behind the car. The evidence does not indicate that Officer Wolfe knew the exchange that had taken place between Ramos and Kelly Thomas or that Ramos had threatened Kelly Thomas and was engaging in unlawful excessive force.

The physical altercation began as Ramos swung his baton and chased after Kelly Thomas. Ramos punched Kelly Thomas several times in the left ribs after tackling him to the ground, using his hand to hold Kelly Thomas’s neck, partially laying on Kelly Thomas to use his body weight to pin Kelly Thomas to the ground, and holding him for other officers responding to the call for help to use their physical force on Kelly Thomas.

Ramos caused Officer Wolfe to come to his rescue and apply force on Kelly Thomas including tackling him, kneeing him, punching him three or four times, and using his body weight.

Cicinelli arrived at the scene at 8:45 p.m. He kneed Kelly Thomas twice in the head and used his Taser four times on Kelly Thomas, including three times as a “Drive stun” for approximately five seconds each. The fourth was a dart deployment, in which two darts connected to wires were ejected from the Taser and affixed to Kelly Thomas for approximately 12 seconds. Kelly Thomas screamed and yelled in pain while being Tased.

Cicinelli used the front end of the Taser to hit Kelly Thomas in the head and facial area eight times while multiple officers pinned Kelly Thomas to the ground with their bodies.

All of this happened with no audible sounds from Kelly Thomas.


When Kelly Thomas did not scream in response to these blows, it should have indicated to Cicinelli that Kelly Thomas was down and seriously injured.

The rest of the police officers who arrived at the scene – Officer Hampton, Sergeant Craig, and Corporal Blatney - arrived later in response to the calls for assistance. The evidence does not show knowing-participation in an unlawful act on the part of these three officers. Thus, no charges are being filed against them at this time.

http://www.orangecountyda.com/home/index.asp?page=8&recordid=2582&returnurl=index.asp%3Fpage%3D8%26pagenumber%3D1%26pagesize%3D30000%26deptid%3D%26archive%3D0%26sl_month%3D12
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Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-18-11 11:11 PM
Response to Original message
6. Damn if he'd only sold some drugs



he wouldn't even be eligible for Food Stamps.

But kill somebody while a cop? Meh.. Who gives a shit about human life?

AS long as druggies don't eat, the cops can go on and kill whomever they want and be fiancially rewarded.

Great country we've got here.





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