Violence and OWS

[TBF]

I have been seeing some concern about violence and even revolution in some of our discussions lately. Folks are understandably concerned about the protests and what is going on. From my view, after watching various sources, this is what we know:

1) This is not about Obama - maybe a reaction to him not being able to accomplish what we'd like (whether or not he'd like it too is irrelevant). Most on this website will vote for him when we get to 2012 ... worrying about that now is pointless.

2) OWS protests were planned by activists for months and they know what they're doing. Obviously with folks losing jobs, homes, and no end in site - they are going to be protests.

3) The protesters are determined to occupy and not be violent - but the police are another story

4) Anything you or I say on this message board is also irrelevant. Bourgeoise sentiment is not going to matter - conditions are what drive this. If folks feel like they have no other choice, they will feed their families, they will fight back

5) Follow on the live feeds and Twitter - that is where you are going to get your best information if you can't be there in person

As far as the violence itself I found an interesting article on Alternet about the police violence so far. Mostly it is being led by Bloomberg and his NYPD, but we've seen it in other cities as well. As far as I'm concerned anything the protesters do at this point is self-defense.

Read for yourself:

Caught on Camera: 10 Shockingly Violent Police Assaults on Occupy Protesters
Probably 97 percent of police act professionally toward protesters. But the other 3 percent are armed and dangerous, and know that they're unlikely to be held accountable.
November 18, 2011

Occupations across the country have born the brunt of some violent police tactics, and in a world where everyone has a camera-phone, a lot of their brutish behavior has been caught in photographs and on video.

Police work is difficult and dangerous, and the majority of officers on the street behave like pros. When it comes to controlling crowds of angry protesters, they're often put into tense situations and ordered to do things they may not want to do by commanders who are far removed from the scene. I've witnessed a lot of restraint from cops, which of course doesn't make the news.

But being human, cops are also prone to fear and rage like everyone else. A minority of cops, like a minority of protesters, lose their cool in tense situations. The difference is that they aren't amateurs – they're well trained and have guidelines that they're required to follow. When a cop loses his or her cool, it can be terrifying. And when a protester exercising his or her right to assemble and speak is a victim of excessive force, it also violates the United States Constitution...

More here: http://www.alternet.org/story/153134/caught_on_camera:_10_shockingly_violent_police_assaults_on_occupy_protesters/

[izquierdista]

1. They are trained to be thugs

And their "guidelines" are a sham. Violate the guidelines, and even in the most egregious case, little more than an "administrative leave" is in store. Even when a bad cop is found to have committed major felonies, it is difficult to break the wall of silence to get a conviction.

America no longer has law enforcement like Sheriff Andy Taylor. Decades of selecting for lower than average intelligence, complete obeisance to authority, tolerating racism and sadism in the ranks, and training them to use overwhelming force in every situation has resulted in what we have today -- imperial storm troopers straight out of 'Star Wars'.

The good thing about the non-violence at OWS is that there is always another card to play. The police, acting on the orders of the 1% (insert picture of Bloomberg here), have played all their cards. And as JFK observed, those who make non-violent change impossible make violent revolution inevitable.

[TBF]

3. "as JFK observed, those who make non-violent change impossible make violent revolution inevitable"

This is so true and I'm glad you mentioned that. We all know it is true - those who have nothing to lose are going to be more willing to fight. It almost seems that TPTB want that confrontation.

[mmonk]

2. The photo doesn't lie.

Some property damage by the "black bloc" that shows up in some locations isn't the theme or choice of OWS. And doesn't really compare either.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. Let me add global revolution

You can watch the ga on the net, not one...many.

[TBF]

5. Twitter is an amazing tool right now. nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. Yeah, but both of them are

[MisterP]

7. yes, there have been quite a few concern trolls yelling, over and over, that OWS

must renounce violence because it's so pervasive and inevitable: it's a backdoor way to tar OWS, and protest, as incipiently violent--especially when they cite Seattle 1999, where the violence was a response to police violence: they never bring up Tahrir Square's scuffles

after all, there aren't dozens of OPs saying that OWS must renounce shooting the White House and rape, are there?

[JackRiddler]

8. I have never protests as non-violent as OWS. It's incredible...

In person in recent weeks I've seen the cops clubbing arms, spearing with batons, pushing, grabbing, creating incredibly hazardous stampede traps with the barricades, parading like stormtroopers, bullying, threatening, snatching. Then in these pictures we see the spraying, the bloodying, the destruction of property, shooting a man in the head... And the protesters keep taking it, take a step back, and stand their ground again. And the thing keeps getting bigger!

[TBF]

11. That part is pretty amazing -

it seems that everything Bloomberg does backfires. You'd think he'd get a clue, but he's too arrogant for that.

[AntiFascist]

9. What people say on message boards can be relevant...

ideas are important to be expressed, and this movement is lead by ideas.

[TBF]

10. I think we can have interesting discussions here, for sure, but that isn't what drives the protests.

There are going to be a certain number of folks who are principled and leading this behind the scenes (and others from here participating when they can), but the thing that is going to drive most normal folks out into the streets are their own personal conditions. With increased unemployment, foreclosures, and other austerity measures we will see greater participation.

It's interesting that Bloomberg the Fascist may well be driving this more than he realizes - every time he encourages his police force to come down hard it seems that double the protesters come out to support Occupy.