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Is it possible to fight against police tactics without making cops the enemy?

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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 01:28 PM
Original message
Is it possible to fight against police tactics without making cops the enemy?
In Ohio, we protested SB-5 side by side with cops. Now I see the brutality with the tactics in several OWS cities and must admit that I'm conflicted. So here's what's going on in my mind:

I have friends who are cops. I have respect for the ones who enter the field for the right reasons. Like any professional field, there's a certain number of people who are in it for the wrong reasons. Usually it's a very small percentage, but you can't say that about every field.

A couple of points: Public service positions are held to a higher level of scrutiny (i.e. cops, teachers). Most folks here disagree with the tactic of taking those "bad teacher" stories as a smear on the whole profession. But the "bad cop" stories are eagerly painted on the profession with a broad brush. I don't think it's entirely fair, but it's also hard to defend. Here's why I think so:

It's not so much the "bad apples" that piss people off. If you look at the many issues that brought this movement on in the first place, accountability is at the heart of many of them. Wall Street, regulators, elected officials, and now police. It's the lack of self-policing within the profession. It pisses freepers off when a bad-apple teacher is protected by their union. It pisses us off when bad cops are protected by "the code of silence"

So instead of an antagonistic stance against the entire profession, one of our demands should be that cops - like banksters - should be held accountable for their actions. Same problem with politicians. They should be accountable for maintaining certain standards of conduct. And if they won't hold themselves accountable within their own industry, then an outside force needs to do it. Since ever other entity built into the system for this has failed, it's come down to us to do this.

"Fuck the Police" is not a demand for accountability, and stirring up blanket anti-cop sentiment is not helping us resolve anything. It's actually more of the same and hypocritical in more ways than just being a lazy smear. It implies that we don't want to be held accountable for laws that may be broken while we protest. Nonviolent civil disobedience means sometimes breaking the law & getting arrested. We get that. In Cincinnati, peaceful protesters would line up to receive their citation. The punishment fit the crime and everybody got along... http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20111010/NEWS01/111010028/Occupy-Cincinnati-protesters-line-up-citations-park-closes. I thought that was a pretty cool OWS moment.

When the black bloc starts shit, who's holding them accountable? They may be actual anarchists, or they may be cops sent to stir things up. But either way, shouldn't we be policing our own, and demand the same for every player in this? Occupy Oakland addresses this directly and appropriately: http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2098891,00.html

There has already been times where OWS has been smeared for the actions of a few individuals. The cops, the media, the right wing are all eagerly waiting for that one fuck-up that will sink the entire movement. And there will continue to be fuck-ups and people who are intentionally trying to smear the movement from the inside. If we defend this, then it's not much different from legitimate mortgage brokers defending their predatory colleagues, or a bad cop being protected by "good cops". We need to hold ourselves to high standards as we demand the same of others.

OWS is evolving, as it must. The direction I want to see it go needs to involve a strong self-policing element to it. In the absence of justice, that's all we have to set an example and hopefully make accountability important again.
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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
1. That's the problem...
Edited on Sat Nov-26-11 01:32 PM by Why Syzygy
cops are NEVER held accountable.
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darth marth Donating Member (170 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
2. We should demand accountability, meanwhile supporting the good ones to police each other

Occupy Wall Street Giving Cops a Teach-In

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGAKq6Cnnu0
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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
3. In Gene Sharp's "From Dictatorship to Democracy: a conceptual framework for liberation" he writes...
about the need to co-opt the police (and military) and to get them on your side in order for any kind of protest movement to succeed.

This book is a "how to" manual and OWS would be well advised to study it.

Professor Sharp's booklet was published in 1993 to support the resistance movement in Burma after he spent years studying the history of what makes for successful peaceful political revolutions.

"From Dictatorship to Democracy," has been translated into at least 28 languages and has been studied by opposition movements all over the world. It was used by movements that toppled governments in Serbia, Ukraine, Georgia and Kyrgyzstan.

He also points to the need for planning, both strategic and tactical, something that OWS seems to be lacking.

It's a free (and not lengthy) read here:

http://www.aeinstein.org/organizations/org/FDTD.pdf

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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
4. Self-delete due to technical error n/t
Edited on Sat Nov-26-11 01:50 PM by Uncle Joe
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
5. I believe for the good of the movement and society in general that we maintain a two
Edited on Sat Nov-26-11 01:54 PM by Uncle Joe
track way of thinking.

1. We must be extremely aggressive in exposing police abuse while pushing for justice and full accountability on each case; based on the merits and safeguards in general to protect the public from police abuse ie; the right to record or video police actions in public.

2. On the other hand we should just as aggressively refrain from making enemies of or demonizing an entire necessary, essential institution, there are good cops in the profession with noble motives.

If we can't to both simultaneously I believe the occupy movement will be weakened as a result.

Thanks for the thread, rucky.

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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
6. If the police were held accountable they couldn't function.

Thus the'thin blue line'.
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. I disagree
What function require police to break the law?

I have a problem that the thin blue line prevents police from policing their own ranks.
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
7. I find it interesting that you call for similar standards for protesters
as you do for trained, sworn officers with paid positions that have literal power over life and death and freedom and captivity.

I take it as a backdoor effort to reduce the accountability of those with power just because you make the powerless on the same tier of scrutiny.

Yes, police should be held to a hirer standard because responsibility comes with power and compensation.
I also believe the predilection for the "bad apple" theory is derived from a desire to avoid discussion of systemic problems. The individual is a distraction, and is an attempt to hide the forest by pointing and yelling "look at that tree".

The same thing always happens when there is awful police behavior, a fair chunk of state that the evidence is not all in and that there must not be a rush to judgment, then the dangers and stresses of the profession are rolled out, then the victim(s) are blamed to varying degrees, then comes the "bad apple" defense, then folks state they have a relative who is the second coming of Andy Taylor, and then those that are up in arms about the abuse of the hour are essentially told that some incidents like this have to be accepted because the alternative is anarchy and that broadbrush attacks are bad as the abuse.

The focus though is kept on the individual and issues with the system are papered over and Lo and Behold the abuses stack up, get worse, and accountability is further diminished.

Almost all systemic and structural problems are dealt with this way, every effort and argument is set up to steer dialog from the root causes to dealing with minutia and making excuses, if it won't go away then eventually a "bad apple" maybe offered up as a sacrifice distraction from the system that created, enabled, and supported "bad apples".
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
8. Once the cops become faceless robo cops in riot gear, no
At that point, everybody knows they're only there to start violence.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
9. When Mayor Quan made policy while consulting with at least fifteen
People outside of Oakland, on the phone, and these discussions of hers were not audible to the public, I believe she violated the Brown Act.

Any cops in Bay Area willing to arrest her?

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Ricochet21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
10. the answer is not to fight
listen to Gandhi
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
11. K&R
Any profession will have its bad practitioners. And the profession needs to police itself to retain credibility for the majority.
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Scuba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
12. Here in Wisconsin we also protest side-by-side with LEO's...
... and their behavior has been exemplary.

Thanks for posting this thoughtful thread. We hurt our cause when we further alienate the brothers, cousins, aunts and neighbors who are the police.
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DirkGently Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
13. It's not to OWS' benefit (or anyone's) to argue that police are the enemy. BAD POLICING is the enemy
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 12:02 AM
Response to Original message
15. I was horrified to see them called "pigs".
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 12:06 AM
Response to Original message
16. Who's police, our police
Common refrain.

In fact some might see them as the enemy, but not all.
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