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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 02:15 PM
Original message
Dean to PolitiFact: Democrats are "atrocious" at messaging.
Amen to that.

Lie of the Year: Interview with Howard Dean

Question: On PolitiFact's choice of "Lie of the Year," that the health care law is a "government takeover" of the health care system:

Dean:
"That's a great one because it's a big one. It's not just a small one, some jackass politician saying something. It permeated the debate. ... There was a lot of what I would call willful ignorance on the part of the (Republicans), to put it charitably -- otherwise it was outright propaganda. 'Keep the government's hands off my Medicare,' tipped it off as to how the debate was going to go.....Of course this isn't a government takeover. It's what (former Massachusetts Gov.) Mitt Romney signed (in 2006)


Dean then talked more about how the message was skewed.

On the Democratic response to the attack:

"The Democrats are atrocious at messaging. They've gotten worse since I left, not better. It's just appalling. First of all, you don't play defense when your doing messaging, you play offense. The Republicans have learned this well. We did a lot of great things when I was at the (Democratic National Committee) in terms of infrastructure but we never could get people to actually message better. You always play offense when your messaging, and the Republicans do it and we don't. You don't defend (against a charge that it's) a government takeover, you just say, 'Well, that's ridiculous.'

"The way I would respond is this, I'd say, we have a socialized system of medicine in this country, 25 million people are in it, and it's the highest rated system by its patients. It's called the Veterans Administration. Then, we already have a single payer in this country, with roughly twice as many people as are on the single payer in Canada. It's called Medicare. So all we think is that it's reasonable to give people a choice. This bill is even more conservative than that: All they do is expand what you already have."


And more about Democrats and messaging:

Question: On whether Democrats as a group are capable of advocating a unified message the way Republicans do:

"It's just appalling. It was uncoordinated. Everyone had their own idea. They need some coaching on messaging. It's not like there are no good people on the Democratic side who'll do it, it's that they just don't listen. ... First of all, you don't play defense. Second of all you don't explain every detail in the bill. Frank Luntz has it right, he just works for the wrong side. You give very simple catch-phrases that encapsulate the philosophy of the bill. They were able to spin their message out, most of which is a lie. It's not a government takeover, there were no death panels. But these are effective things.

"We get beat every time on this stuff, and I can't figure it out, what the hell is wrong with the DNA of the Democratic Party that we can't be much tougher. It was incredibly frustrating getting beat on messaging, especially because they were wrong."


He sounds cross and irritated about it, and I feel the same way.

I am craving some strong and tough talk. I am tired of the wimpy responses as though we were afraid to hurt the feelings of the Republicans.

Good for Howard Dean for this interview.

:applause:


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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
1. I half-way agree with him.
Definitely that our messaging sucked, but he also can't leave out the non-party operatives who did literally nothing during the HCR debate.

The part where I think he's wrong is on the message he recommends itself. No one - no one! - likes insurance companies. The narrative should have been about demonizing them at every turn, focusing on their heartlessness and how the lives of ALL Americans would improve with reform.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
2. they seemed to be good enough at it during the campaign.
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #2
35. True!
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soryang Donating Member (642 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
3. Howard is so right
Edited on Fri Dec-17-10 02:22 PM by soryang
VA is superior to private employment based for profit health insurance, by far.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
4. Good to know that people on the inside are getting what vast numbers of us
Edited on Fri Dec-17-10 02:21 PM by blondeatlast
on the intertubes have been saying for almost a freaking DECADE.

When it comes to communicating an effective, concise message designed to present our principles and ideas and increase our demographics, the Democratic Party inhales air at an intense pressure.

OR:

Democrats suck at marketing and communication.

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HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. It's more that people don't want to hear the truth.
They want catchphrases? Here's some:

"America is Pretty Much Broke Thanks to Rich People, Dumbass."

"Keep The Tea; I Already Know Who Put Us In Hot Water."

"Freedom Isn't Free? So Pay Your Effing Taxes!"

"You Cannot Strengthen the Weak by Over-Enabling the Strong."

"Corporations are the REAL 'Welfare Queens'!"

"Horatio Alger is Laughing His Ass Off at You."

"Should We Keep Sacrificing Young Minds at the Throne of the Empire?"

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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
5. The messaging wasn't atrocious
I got the message loud and clear from our political and party leaders. It certainly wasn't the same message they conveyed during the campaign when they wanted my vote, and it wasn't a message I liked very much. But the message they sent to me on any number of issues was unmistakable.
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glinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
6. It is inability to get message out as well as inability to package a clear loud precise message.
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AlinPA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
7. IMO, Dean is 100% correct. Democrats get beaten by catch phrases and sound bites made up
by the republicans.
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Frisbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #7
54. Yup. I think the average American has an attention span...
of about 5 seconds. Long enough to hear "government takeover" ot "death panels". Then it's back to American Idol or whatever.
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HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
8. Catch-Phrases are for people who share the same brain.
If your political beliefs can fit on a bumper sticker and you expect a rebuttal to be 5 seconds or less, you need to get smarter. I'm not waiting for TeaDouchers to evolve.
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Teaser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. baseline humans are incapable of real rational thought.
Most humans just run off their brainstem drives. The forebrain is for after-the-fact justification, mostly.
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HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Precisely why Fox "News" is engineered the way it is.
"Fact"oids, phrase-friendly tickers, constant polls, anchors that are either titsy or deserves-a-kick-to-the-neck obnoxious, opinion-laden presentation, loaded question graphics, sensory-overload that would make a casino blush, interruptions galore and teensy "that's-that" quick-fix solutions to complex and long-standing problems.

PERFECT for the midbrain-stuck human being. "Ahm abowt akshuns, not reezin (drool, slobber) . . "

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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. i instinctively agree. maybe later i'll figure out why.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
9. On unemployment and tax cuts....
"This tax debate we're having right now is driving me nuts. It's very simple: Do you cut people on unemployment and then give tax breaks to people who make $1 million a year? I think the vast majority of the American people think no, you don't do that. Why aren't we talking about that? Why isn't that the message? So it's very frustrating. We got our butts beat on lousy messaging."
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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
12. He is absolutely right, and our ineffective messaging on the Health Care debate cost us dearly
in last month's election.

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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
13. my question is WHY? it makes not one whit of sense
they can afford the best of the best to get their side of the story out.....it makes no sense whatsoever
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. My guess....
the "bipartisanship" has taken hold. They may have reached the stage of "post-partisanship", which in reality means beyond the two parties. :shrug:

Just guessing.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. Part of it has to do with a willingness to lie.
Pick the message that polls best, then build your own set of "facts" around it.

When we sell policy, it usually goes pretty wonkish. We use emotions as a hook sometimes, but the GOP messaging begins and ends with the emotional hook.

It's also easier to get people to stand against something rather than for something. But we try to sell the positives of our plan - inviting the public to pick it apart - rather than go with the negatives of the alternatives.

But the left is much more impervious to fear-based campaigns, to their credit. To their detriment, we're among the first to shoot down strong messaging. We need to realize the messages that stick with the public may insult or offend OUR intelligence, but that we are rarely the target audience.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. You don't have to lie to get your message out (well, the GOP does). The truth
is on our side. All we have to do is reduce complex ideas-all based on facts-into simple catch phases, then repeat in lockstep. It would work, but since no two Democrats seem to agree on a platform of any kind the "lockstep" part gets left out, and since Dems hate to "dumb down a message" the catch phase idea is abandoned too. The party is completely hopeless on this issue.
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. The GOP doesn't lie to get their message out
Their message is a lie.

I don't know why they don't have writers to coin phrases like Insurance companies are Corporate Death Panels.

-Hoot
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 06:00 AM
Response to Reply #18
44. You messaged it better than I did. :P
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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #13
26. Because they can't decide what their message is.
Grayson was an exception to that, but mostly their true intent is something like "stay in office and don't offend the PTB" which doesn't make for a good campaign slogan.

If they knew what they stood for they'd know what to say.

(Hint: "I'm really okay with the other side getting their way all the time" is not something to stand for)
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kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
19. Maybe because, for the most part, they don't have a message?
Yknow, a message distinguishable from the Republican message. You have to know what it is that you want and what you want to say, before you can start on planning the best way to phrase it.
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ljm2002 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
20. Yes the Democrats are atrocious at messaging...
...and that is because they have compromised their positions to the point where there is no clear message to present.

There was a time when the Democrats could claim to be the party of the people rather than the corporations. But Third Way triangulation and corporate $$ took over, and now every single time there is something that could benefit the majority of working people, it must first be run through the lobbyist filters before it is presented in a severely watered-down form, or killed outright.

Just look at the state of the Democratic party vis a vis unions: their support for unions ranges from lukewarm, to nonexistent, to hostile.

Yes I understand that the past was not golden, not by any means. There was racism and corruption and what have you, in all of our history including in the Democratic party. But the party used to support unions, and used to press for policies that would benefit the middle and lower classes in opposition to the big corporations. Those days are long gone. What we get now is corporate newspeak, rugs pulled out from under the unions, no opposition to jobs shipped overseas, and support for endless wars, just to name a few characteristics of the new Democratic party.

It's a crying shame. We need a People's party.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. Yes, I agree. "compromised their positions"...
It's really the GOPs message on unions, schools..etc. Was it because they made their message so loud that it took over all else...or because we actually agree with them. Probably a combo of both.
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ljm2002 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. It was because our leaders sold out...
Edited on Fri Dec-17-10 04:12 PM by ljm2002
...to corporate $$. Pure and simple, that is the crux of the matter.

Now one can argue about why they did this. Certainly campaign financing is one aspect of it: with the money that is spent on campaigns these days, it is no wonder that politicians look to who will finance them.

If only we could harness the power of the masses to provide equivalent financing. I know that Obama got what, $500M from small donations? I don't know how that stacks up to the corporate contributions that he got, however; and it obviously did not buy a seat at the table for the little people.

(on edit: not sure at all about the figure from small donations, googled and came up with conflicting reports, and evidence that many of the "small" donors in fact contributed up to the max, but did so in several small donations)
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
21. I have voted dem my whole life and spent quite a bit of my free time here
for nearly 9 years and *I* have *no* idea what we stand for anymore. I'm serious. That's appalling too. :-(
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kath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
22. File under "No Shit, Sherlock".
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DrToast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
27. I'll take Drew Westen over Luntz any day of the week
The problem is that Democrats don't seem to listen to him.
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
28. It is pretty hard to have strong messaging when there is no real message.
It is also tough to both actively attempt to be muddled and morphed with the Republicans and yet maintain enough of a difference to merit votes.

Then if you can get something coherent out of that, it still has to sell. Good luck with that.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. I tend to agree, but at least Dean is saying something about it.
And making waves. I do agree our party is not standing for things they used to stand for.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
29. Dean is saying American public hasn't gotten Obama/Dem Party message ... ???
I think American citizens have gotten the message Obama sent to us all !!!

As well as the Democratic Party message to those they are alleged to be serving -- !!

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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. And the message is . . .
"How many finger am I holding up?"
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
31. Problem is the Dems take on issues that can't be explained with slogans
And we do not have an electorate educated well enough to understand anything beyond slogans. Our country is made up of mostly imbeciles. Roughly 9 out of 10 Americans are idiots.

There is the problem.

Don
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #31
36. 76%+ of Americans knew enough to support single-payer government run health care ....
who dropped the ball on that one in back room deals with Big Pharma and

the private Health Care Industry?

THERE is the problem --

Same problem as the new Obama-made agreement with GOP -- !!

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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #31
52. +1
People simply don't want to accept that fact.

And its not like there is any population helping the Democratic leaders. They shit on them too.

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Matariki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
33. Frankly, I'm starting to disbelieve the 'incompetence' angle
Not doubting Dean's sincerity here - but I'm wondering how much of Democrat's problem with messaging is actually a cover for complicity and back-room deals with corporations. Not all Democrats, but perhaps far too many.
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BlueJac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
34. It is not about catch phrases........
these people don't believe in anything but the money for their own re-elections. These people are tools for corporate America and the Democrats have lost their way years ago. There is no Democratic party in Washington, except for a few. It is all about the money!!!!!!
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blackspade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 02:07 AM
Response to Original message
37. K&R!
Totally agree with Dean on this.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 02:44 AM
Response to Original message
38. The Republicans have a huge money machine that funds think tanks
and media organizations. We just don't have that kind of money machine. We don't have nearly as many professional loudmouths. And too many of our Democratic politicians have to focus far too much time either on trying to raise nickels and dimes for ordinary voters or on bartering their votes for influence for non-Democrats -- and all that just to have enough money to run for office.
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DFW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 03:34 AM
Response to Original message
39. Howard deserves to be taken very seriously for one very simple reason
When he was DNC chair, we added to our numbers in Congress dramatically.

In 2006, after his first year and a half as DNC chairman we took BOTH houses of Congress
back from the republicans. In 2008, in part because of the success of 2006, we took back
the White House. Then Howard was forced out of both the DNC and the administration--in effect
he was ostracized from the party apparatus. Why? For one petty personal grievance.

Obama kept Rahm and abandoned Howard. What did that get him? He lost the House massively,
came perilously close to losing the Senate, and managed to lend credibility to talk of
a one-term presidency--something that would have gotten you committed for being incurably
delusional in January 2009.

Obama has gotten plenty of things done. It's just that you have to use Google to find the
list. If Howard were still either DNC chair or a prominent member of the adminstration, the
country would be hearing about them 24/7. He knew how to do this. For all McCain's claiming
to be the one with "straight talk," Howard Dean is the one who really deserved the title.

The two elections that took place under Howard's leading the DNC were 2006 and 2008. Look
at how we did in 2004 and 2010. The numbers don't lie. I don't blame Howard for being
pissed. For him, watching the results of the election of 2010 under the stewardship of Rahm
and Tim Kaine must have been the political equivalent of a Buddhist watching the Taliban blow
up the Bamyan statues. I would be equally upset, and that is something you rarely see in Howard,
either publicly or in private.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 03:52 AM
Response to Original message
40. I agree. If the party is a promoter of Reaganomics, it should let
people know more directly.
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 03:53 AM
Response to Original message
41. Yes.
Edited on Sat Dec-18-10 03:54 AM by calimary
Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #41
49. I think you mean "yes."
:)
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. Shit - I forgot to say YES!!!!!!!
:D
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 05:45 AM
Response to Original message
42. Recommend
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democrank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 05:56 AM
Response to Original message
43. Once again, Howard Dean is right.
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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
45. what he neglects to tell you is that that is the plan.
Edited on Sat Dec-18-10 09:32 AM by tomp
everything obama has passed or tried to pass is bones and crumbs AT BEST, and outright attacks at worst. even if the "message" was better, it would have been in a bad cause. the bad message is the modus operandi of making a lousy bill look good.

"oh, those sneaky republicans just talked a better game than us." bullshit!

the dems INTEND to transfer wealth to the rich while making it look like they're doing us a favor.

when we get THAT we can move forward, not until.

and howard dean's role is to make you think there is something to salvage in the democratic party.

.
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DFW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #45
46. Howard has no such "role."
Maybe the concept of a public figure saying what he really thinks is so far out of fashion
that it is difficult to recognize when it appears. Howard sees no such "role" for himself.
He was relieved of any role in party happenings altogether when Rahm was appointed COS and
Kaine was put in place as the new DNC chair. Howard is not on TV like Frank Luntz to promote
some agenda. He is on TV because he gets asked for his view on things, not because he is
trying to implement some master plan. He gets asked for his view because he is one of the few
people who will articulate a genuine, informed personal, progressive point of view.

Helen Thomas, who had never sat down with Howard for a real chat before last July 29th,
said after the meeting that Howard was the first politician in decades that she had met who
never sought to evade any question, and never hesitated to speak up when asked for an
opinion. She said, "he's not a politician," which, coming from Helen, is high praise indeed.
Helen has seen them all, has known them all. She smells bullshit faster than a wolf scents
prey on the wind, and I've never heard her so upbeat about a major figure in American politics
in the last 20 years, maybe more.

I promise you, Howard has no "role" he is playing in some master plan here, nor has he been
asked (to our detriment) to play one.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #46
47. Thanks for that response, DFW
You are so right that he has no role in the party leadership. They made sure of that.

And that is why he is asked for his view. Because he has actual views and not like so many in leadership who have no opinion.
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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #46
53. says you, in far too many words.
consider, one doesn't have to admit a role, or even be conscious of a role, to be playing it.

your promise rings hollow because you can't back it up.
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DFW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-10 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #53
58. I've known him for about ten years. You have known him for how long?
We keep in touch regularly. Maybe you know what he's doing unconsciously. I proclaim no such clairvoyance.
But as to what he thinks on a conscious level, well, he doesn't lie--to me or anyone else, as far as I can
tell. Your snapping rings hollow, because you are not a friend of his with whom he communicates regularly.

If he has told you personally anything to contradict what he has told me, well, I'm all ears. MF, too, I suspect.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-10 06:11 AM
Response to Reply #58
59. Deleted message
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Martin Eden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
48. "craving some strong and tough talk"
It was the lack of "strong and tough talk" that led to the disastrous "compromise" Obama just signed (either that, or Obama shares the goals of the GOP).
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
51. It's not that the Republicans are better at messaging
It's that the M$M works for them.

People are in denial. If only the methods were better, then we could talk this country into being progressive. We want to rely on others to do it.
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Frisbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
55. I suspect that the same corporate powers that...
the GOP so strongly supports has enough control over the Dems that they really don't WANT to get a contrary message out, or at least not appear to oppose it so strongly that they are out in the cold when the next campaign rolls around.
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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
56. I thought this for awhile
Edited on Sat Dec-18-10 07:11 PM by Raine
our side HAS GOT TO GET CONTROL of the message and language, something they either can't do or won't do.
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tabbycat31 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
57. truer words could not have been spoken
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-10 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
60. If Dems are NOT going to cut Social Security, they need to speak out.
I fear they intend to and don't care what we think.

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