How is this fair? Seriously, how?

[Hell Hath No Fury]

I just spoke with my Mom who is a tax preparer (including mine) and she confirmed that I will be received less from the government come tax time. I am a single member of the working poor who makes less than 20k a year.

Bill Gates will be getting more money this year. I will be getting less.

Please tell me now that is fair?

Personally, I was for all the tax cuts expiring, but goddammit, Bill fucking Gates over the working poor???

Indefensible. :puke:

[dana_b]

it's not, it's evil

that's part of the reason that so many were against it.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

14. I am digging your avatar -

Now THERE is a great man! :applause:

[dana_b]

19. I got it from another DUer

she said that anyone who wanted it could use it so have at it! :)

[dana_b]

16. oops!

[closeupready]

Yet, defend it, they do.

:mad:

[Lucky 13]

1. Purist.

just kidding.

It's reprehensible. And shocking. But some people will defend anything.

No one is listening and nobody cares. Our only hope at this point is to attempt to organize for 2012.

[closeupready]

3. That's correct. Nobody cares.

Most of our millionaire elected officials will also benefit from these tax cuts. I sometimes wonder if being a Congress person means one must possess no shame, or else one can't do the shit they get away with.

[Lucky 13]

10. It's as if they get to Washington and go through some kind of orientation...

... where they scramble their brains, remove any conscience or morals, and send them to work a shell, a facade of who they used to be.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

27. Think about what they have to do to even get there --

Even the most well-meaning, benign political candidate has to either 1) be independently wealthy or 2) raise obscene amounts of money to make it to DC.

Right from the get-go it does not bode well. Add in the corrupting influences of DC/politics and it's amazing anyone makes it outta that place with their soul intact.

[Lucky 13]

32. The entire system is broken. Severely.

Beyond repair.

[HughBeaumont]

2. Hey, all the better for him to build more R&D outlets in India and China!! Greater GOOD, citizen!

:rofl:

And the joke's on US.

[Still a Democrat]

4. Thank the GOP

They fought for Gates.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

8. And so did the damned Democrats.

Your point?

[Still a Democrat]

11. No what I watched

They were set against tax cuts for the upper income. It was a concession to the GOP.

[Lucky 13]

15. We. Didn't. Have. To. Concede.

And we didn't have to make one policy contingent on another.

Tax cuts didn't have to be linked to unemployment. Just as it wasn't linked to DADT, DREAM, START...

[Still a Democrat]

23. If you want a deal, you make concessions

But it would be nice if we could have just written the package ourselves.

[Lucky 13]

29. You don't cave to something that "offends my conscience" to get so little in return.

If it "offends your conscience" you take that part off the table and negotiate from there.

But with this guy, there is no backstop. There is no line that cannot be crossed. We will concede MUCH to receive LITTLE.

It's poor leadership. It's offensive. It shows a lack of moral character.

[hfojvt]

17. that's true

all Obama did was surrender and then start cheering for the other team, and very few Democratic Senators stood against him, to their everlasting shame.

If they had any shame, that is.

[Still a Democrat]

24. He got most of the package for lower and middle income

You give, you get.

[hfojvt]

47. Do you really believe that?

Because that is what Bush claimed as well.

"My tax relief plan is a fair one, lowering the rate for all taxpayers. The typical family of four with two children will get $1,600 in tax relief. And the greatest benefits, the largest percentage reductions, will go to those who need them most. My plan is pro-growth. It gives our economy a jump-start by leaving more money in the hands of those who have earned it." Feb 17, 2001

"The President's tax plan provides relief for every income taxpayer; however, it gives the lowest income families the greatest percentage reduction. Indeed, higher income individuals will pay a higher share of income taxes after this plan takes effect. (See Chart 2–2.)" Feb. 28, 2001

It wasn't true then, and it's not true now.

All Obama did was give.

Okay, that's not all he did. Then he started lying about his deal, portraying it as a victory, or even half a loaf.

Well it is hard to sell yourself as "The Great Surrenderer".

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

5. Bill Gates gets a herd of ponies...the poor (as usual) get the droppings and are told to be grateful

[ZombieHorde]

6. Well that's not good. Is the child earned income decreasing? nt

[Hell Hath No Fury]

9. No idea about that.

No kids. And I am not a kid, either. ;)

[hfojvt]

22. then you don't count

Only children matter.

Actually I believe it was increased in the 2009 stimulus and the increase is being kept. There may even be a slight increase for people with no kids, but it's an increase over 2008, not over 2010.

[ZombieHorde]

25. Oh shit! You wrote, "a single member," and I read, "a single mother."

My reading comprehension was way off. My mistake.

[FiveGoodMen]

28. Same here.

[guitar man]

7. It's not fair

Nobody said life was fair, if you want the advantages that a guy like Gates has, you gotta earn 'em, so quit whining and start tugging harder on those bootstraps kid ;)

:sarcasm: :sarcasm:

[Statistical]

12. How do you know Bill Gates will be getting more?

Isn't he retired (as in not working)? If so his wages are $0.00.

The only net decrease in taxes from 2010 to 2011 is:
gain 2% payroll tax reduction
lose MWPC ($400 per person).

If his wages are $0.00 then a reduction from 6.4% to 4.4% on $0.00 is still $0.00.
Net-net Mr. BG will have his taxes rise by $400.

So does your mom prepare Bill Gates return? Has he personally advised her on how much he will be working next year?

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Statistical]

21. What correcting a falsehood?

Not allowing you to spread nonesense backed up by the infallible logic of "my mom says"?
Pointing out the error in your "analysis"?
Really?

[Hell Hath No Fury]

30. OK, let's try it this way -

Those making over 250k will be getting more money this year. I will be getting less.

How is that fair?

[Statistical]

33. You will have your taxes increase by the difference of (2% of your pay + $15)* - $400.

Not exactly the worst deal. However your right... it isn't fair. I 100% agree with that.

Still without a compromise all your taxes would go up to Clinton era levels which would be a more significant increase. They tried to extend only cuts <$250K and it failed in the Senate. Without a compromise everything would reset January 1. The cost of that compromise was money to the rich. That is how the sausage is made.

* on the $15. Little known fact is standard deduction is rising in 2011 from $5700 to $5800. So if you make $16K you taxes compared to 2010 will be: -$320 (from 2% payroll deduct) -$15 from increased standard deduction + $400 losing MWPC = +$70 net increase in taxes.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

37. As I said in my poist --

I was 100% supportive of ALL the tax cuts expiring.

To extend themn for the rich and fuck the working poor is bullshit.

[Statistical]

39. You would be more "fucked" if all taxes expired.

For one thing 10% bracket would go to 15% resulting in a quick $300 increase in taxes. You woulld lose full MWPC (+$400) without any 2% offset.

Taxes rising $700 vs taxes rising $65.

I can't see how you find your taxes going up $65 to be getting fucked while preferring your taxes to rise $700.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

42. OK, you clearly are not getting my point.

My point is fairness. I can live with my taxes going up, so long as everyone elses is as well. I just resent the hell that -- under the tax plan just passed -- the wealthy so clearly count more in our society than the working poor.

[Statistical]

45. I am sorry then.

If you would wish your taxes to rise durring a recession directly cutting your consumption and affecting other persons employment just so taxes can rise for the rich well ... you didn't get your wish. I am deeply sorry Obama felt the danger to the recovery was too great ($300B+ in destroyed aggregate demand) to allow you taxes to rise by another $600+.

[TomClash]

41. He gets paid as MS Chairman nt

[JoePhilly]

48. I suspect that he defers most fo his salary.

When you are that rich, you don't need a salary at all.

So, you take your compensation in various side benefits, corporate jets, health benefits, living allowances, all kinds of things. You create charitable foundations, and you give to those.

The goal is to bank as much as you can, die ... and pass it all on TAX FREE to your kids.

[Statistical]

49. You are correct sir. Looks like half his compensation is cash/wages. n/t

[hfojvt]

13. well you will get some of it back with the payroll tax cut

and you are supposed to be happy that people who make much more than you will be getting much more than the $400. A middle class household with an income of $80,000 will get $1600 instead of just $800. Aren't you happy for all the people who make $80,000 a year or more?

Then think of another middle class couple. This time a couple where each makes $80,000 a year. This couple will get $3200 PLUS whatever they get from the Bush tax cuts. Surely you are happy for that middle class couple. Don't you support the middle class?

What do you mean less than 6% of households make over $150,000 a year? 94th percentile is still middle class.

At least in this brave new world.

[katnapped]

20. Get another job

And stop whining!

Sheesh...everyone wants a pony these days!

:sarcasm:

[Lance_Boyle]

26. You will not be paying any Federal income tax.

$20,000 is in the 15% bracket. 15% of 20,000 is substantially less than the standard deduction. So you'll be getting around $2700 for not paying any Federal income tax. Not a bad return on a null investment, is it?

[Hell Hath No Fury]

35. I dig through the couch cushions for quarters --

somedays so I can get by myself a cheap burrito to eat - my one meal.

15% of what I make is helluva different than 15% of 150k or even 30k.

[TomClash]

36. He loses the making work pay tax credit

which below $20,000 more than offsets the payroll tax "holiday."

The standard deduction is a deduction not a credit. And he still pays payroll taxes.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

40. Thank you.

"She" appeciates the tax clarification. :hi:

[TomClash]

43. Oh sorry.

Don't know why I said "he."

[Hell Hath No Fury]

51. Pffffttt. Not a problem.

I once thought a DUer was a little old lady from her postings -- until I met the young man in person. :D

[Statistical]

38. Your math is wrong.

Deduction reduces income. It isn't a credit.

[earth mom]

31. Didn't you get the memo? It's cat food time for everyone BUT the rich!

:grr:

[Hell Hath No Fury]

46. Mmmmm...delicious!

There have been days when the cats got fed, and I didnt, lemme tell you. :D

No raise for Mom (she're retired) and less for me -- we've both been struggling for so long, this just "helps" us towards the edge that much more.

[earth mom]

50. I'm sorry for what you are going through. The class war took an ugly turn the past few months

but we're all in this together. :grouphug:

[Hell Hath No Fury]

52. And you know --

every time you try to bring up unfair wealth inequity in the US the rich/powerful yell CLASS WARFARE! as loud as they can - as if class warfare moves upward instead of downward. :grouphug:

[earth mom]

54. Too bad we aren't like the French so TPTB could see the REAL meaning of class warfare....

:mad:

[libmom74]

55. and what

is really helpful is the cheerleader crowd who are always there to tell you to suck it up and quit whining about ponies because according to them as long as it is endorsed with a president with a D by his name it must be wonderful.

[Statistical]

56. Who said that? Oh yeah nobody.

Some people did say lacking 60 votes Obama made a compromise.

He bought tax cuts for middle class with handouts to the rich. It might not be a good deal but that was the deal that was offered.

[libmom74]

57. It was an

unneccesary compromise. The majority of American people were against extending the Bush tax cuts for the rich, if instead of announcing his intention to cave from the beginning like he always does Obama had taken a stand and gone out every day and talked about how the Repukes were holding lower and middle class tax cuts and the extension of UI hostage to get tax cuts for their wealthy friends he would have had more than enough public support and turned public sentiment against the Repukes and their obstructionist tactics. The biggest failure of Obama's presidency (and it will be looked on as a failure because after losing the House he will be a lame duck President who will be forced to capitulate more and more to whatever the R' want for the next 2 years) is his unwillingness to stand up against the R's and use tough words when neccessary. He should have replaced the word bipartisan early in his presidency with the word obstructionist whenever referring to his Republican "friends".

[myrna minx]

34. Apparently you and the 99ers weren't the proper kind of 'human shield'

to make this legislation palatable. You and the 99ers were jettisoned and I'm so sorry. It's not fair at all. :hug:

[Hell Hath No Fury]

44. Thanks. Sucks to be me right now.

:hug: :D

[stray cat]

53. My mom always told me life wasn't fair

[Lex]

60. she sounds like a real gem . . . nt

[femrap]

58. k and r

Pitchforks for all.

[WillyT]

59. K & R !!!

It's not.

:grouphug:

:kick:

:hi:

[Hell Hath No Fury]

61. Thanks, Willy!

:hug: