How to Survive a Nuclear Attack. (insanity)

[maryf]

The ultimate in fear mongering...OH, but it's all ok! You can survive a mile out, the fallout and all will be negligible...It's ok to use these weapons is the inherent implication, IMO. Insanity rules. (lots of hyperlinks in article) NO NUKES OF ANY KIND!!! (including energy) Radiation is deadly in all forms and amounts!!!


http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-501465_162-20025919-501465.html?tag=contentMain;contentBody

Touching on a subject most people prefer to avoid, the Obama administration is planning to educate the public about dealing with the effects of a nuclear bomb.
"We have to get past the mental block that says it's too terrible to think about," W. Craig Fugate, administrator of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, told the New York Times. "We have to be ready to deal with it."

<snip>

A nuclear attack would most likely come from a terrorist group. "Al Qaeda is especially notable for its longstanding interest in weapons of useable nuclear material and the requisite expertise that would allow it to develop a yield-producing improvised nuclear device," John Brennan, White House chief counterterrorism adviser, said in April.

<snip>
The Department of Homeland Security has published a guide, "Nuclear Detonation Preparedness: Communicating in the Immediate Aftermath," which offers the following advice:
* Find the nearest building, preferably built of brick or concrete, and go inside to avoid any radioactive material outside.
* If better shelter, such as a multi-story building or basement can be reached within a few minutes, go there immediately.
* If you are in a car, find a building for shelter immediately. Cars do not provide adequate protection from radiation from a nuclear detonation.
* Go to the basement or the center of the middle floors of a multi-story building (for example the center of the 5th floor of a 10-story building or the 10th to 20th floors of a 30-story building).

"Shelter in place. That's the single biggest message," L.A. County health director Jonathan Fielding advised. "That's the best way to save lives and prevent radiation-related illnesses. It runs counter to your basic instinct to get away and reunite with family members. If their kids are in school or in day care, that's where they should stay," he added.

<snip>
Meanwhile, the Obama administration is trying to pass a treaty that would modestly reduce the number of nuclear arms held by Russia and U.S., who control the vast majority of nuclear material. But slowing down nuclear proliferation, and keeping nuclear material out of the hands of terrorists, doesn't appear to be getting any easier.

[htuttle]

1. "Place head between knees. Kiss ass goodbye."

[maryf]

2. Did you read the OP?

Just suggesting this at this time is insanity and a ploy to make the unthinkable thinkable.

[rosesaylavee]

6. During the 50s and 60s

school children were instructed to put your head down between their knees at their desks or to lie down in an interior school hallway to avoid fallout from a nuclear blast. I think that's what the poster was referring to. There is no shelter that will protect from a nuclear blast. The initial heat yes, but the resulting exposure to the radiation will kill you later.

[JoePhilly]

7. We did it in Philly during the 70s too ... and ...

Every Wednesday at noon, this HUGE air raid siren on top of my elementary school would be tested. You could hear for miles. Down in the school yard, you had to cover your head it was so loud.

[maryf]

11. OF course it will...

This article is insane...Don't worry, you'll be fine...:sarcasm: NO NUKES!!!

[Gaedel]

28. We used to go down into the steam tunnels under the school. nt

[Nay]

8. How old are you? In the 50's and 60's when I was in grade school,

we had regular drills in case of nuclear attack. We were made to think of the unthinkable when we were kids. Buck up, bucko, nuclear weapons have been around for quite a while and there's nothing new about preparation for one of them going off.

[maryf]

16. I was around then too...

Why are the nukes still around at all. That's what I'm saying...They are trying to get folks ready for the unthinkable...which has been held off for fifty years...NO NUKES Bucko!

[rosesaylavee]

3. Shit.

Tell that to the Chernobyl victims.

[maryf]

12. Amen...100 miles out...

and birth defects up the wazoo...

[Strelnikov_]

4. Duck and Cover n/t

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixy5FBLnh7o

[maryf]

14. Forget that, NO NUKES

and you wouldn't have to worry about it! this is ludicrous!!

[Motown_Johnny]

17. you do understand they are talking about terrorists using a nuke, don't you?

It isn't like they will follow your "No Nukes" mantra.


This technology was created in the 1940s. It seems reasonable to assume that some rouge entity will inevitably develop the ability to create a device for themselves.



Telling people that they need to stay inside if there is an explosion isn't the worst thing in the world.

[TBF]

30. First we need to figure out who the terrorists are (hint they may be in your own govt) nt

[maryf]

35. I am much more concerned about a nation using a nuke...

Nothing is reasonable to assume here. If we had no nuclear power plants, and had dismantled all the missiles, there'd be nothing to worry about. That said, I am very concerned about the rumblings of starting a new nuke weapons program, sabre rattling about Iran, and stirring the pot elsewhere...

OF COURSE WE KNOW TO STAY INSIDE!! Its the fact that the article says it once again that implies we have concerns and/or that actually we'll all be ok and a nuke or two won't hurt us...this is stirring the fear pot about terrorists, while also saying, in essence, nukes can be our allies...

[Motown_Johnny]

44. did you read it? It says...

^snip^


A nuclear attack would most likely come from a terrorist group. "Al Qaeda is especially notable for its longstanding interest in weapons of useable nuclear material and the requisite expertise that would allow it to develop a yield-producing improvised nuclear device," John Brennan, White House chief counterterrorism adviser, said in April









This is the context of the discussion.

[maryf]

50. Don't you get that I think the article is propaganda?

and that they are creating a climate for us to accept nuclear weapon use, much in the way torture was made acceptable? (to many anyway...but,but what if they had a nuke? could we torture then...???) :sarcasm:

[dflprincess]

59. And people wonder why Baby Boomers were never good at planning for the future

We were told all through grade school we wouldn't have one.

I always especially enjoyed the family pulling the picnic blanket over themselves as a protection from a nuclear blast.

BTW - I'd forgotten how we were warned that the burns from an atomic bomb would be worse than any sunburn we had ever had. :rofl:

[redirish28]

5. Doesn't anyone have "alarm bells" going off in their minds like me?

Why the freak is the Obama administration supporting and encouraging this bull crap?


I can see the insane Bush Administration doing it but Obama's administration.... I don't like the smell.

[maryf]

10. I DO!!! I hope I made that clear in my OP

"We have to get past the mental block that says it's too terrible to think about," NO we don't!!! It is far to terrible to think about...

[MilesColtrane]

34. Maybe they think a nuclear terrorist attack is inevitable?

Sooner or later somebody's going to get their hands on nuclear material from North Korea, Pakistan, or Iran, or Russia.

[maryf]

36. You are playing right into their hands...

of course this could happen, but who's to say we're not the ones who will the nuke?? Our country is the only one who has, remember.

[Strelnikov_]

9. Threads

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQo0BQM3OlQ&feature=related

In an urban society, everything connects. Each person's needs are fed by the skills of many others. Our lives are woven together in a fabric. But the connections that make society strong also make it vulnerable.

And therein lies the intractable problem.

Fallout shelters . . food for three months . . but what do you do when the stored food runs out . . . and post event food production is a fraction of what it was before the event.

[hedgehog]

13. The original "duck and cover" mantra was part of our plan to engage in a

nuclear war with the Soviet Union. By persuading people that we could survive, special interests justified our construction of nuclear weapons. Here we aren't talking a war, but rather how to save as many people as possible should some group decide to top what happened on 9/11. It is a real danger. This is what Valerie Plame was working on when she was outed by Cheney. Right now, we are up against weapons that went missing when the Soviet Union came down, as well as whatever North Korea or other nations choose to sell to terrorist groups.

IIRC, Reagan started an active effort to cut back the nuclear arsenal after several years of increasing public awareness of the consequences of nuclear war. Films like "Threads" and "The Day After" made it very clear what a post-nuclear war would look like. Call it fear mongering if you like, but the release of this Homeland Security Guide may be part of a campaign to get the Republicans to sign on to the Start Treaty.

On edit: in the 50's we were talking about what would happen if every city in the country was bombed as part of a war. Today we are talking about rescuing people following a single event.

[maryf]

15. Its fear mongering and the reverse somehow, the spin makes me dizzy...

There are plans afoot to update our arsenal, and money in the military budget to do so...

[hedgehog]

20. My understanding is that Obama intends to cut back on nuclear weapons;

that that's part of what the Start Treaty is about. I really haven't had time to pay close attention to this, though. I think what we have here is a situation that requires a lot of vigilance. There's a ton of money to be made designing and building weapons, so the pressure will always be there to build the next generation of newer and better. Obama can't do it alone; he needs all of us to put pressure on the right people.

On edit: again, I see a difference between the 50's propaganda that a nuclear war is survivable, that we could bomb the hell out of the Commies and go back to normal in a couple of weeks, vs. today's careful instructions to people as how best to survive a single terrorist incident.

[TBF]

29. And you believe that? nt

[maryf]

39. And replace with new and improved...

fewer maybe but better!!! It's so exciting! :grr:

We have 10,000, I believe, far, far more than necessary to destroy the planet many times.

[hedgehog]

41. That's not my understanding of the situation....

http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2010/03/26/president-obama-announces-new-start-treaty

[maryf]

64. recent article, the presidents words in bold

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/usrussianucleartreatypolitics

US Senate to keep debating nuclear arms treaty
by Olivier Knox Olivier Knox 2 hrs 5 mins ago

WASHINGTON (AFP) – The US Senate was to continue debating Sunday a nuclear arms control pact with Russia after lawmakers beat back an attempt by President Barack Obama's Republican foes to kill the accord.

On Saturday, senators voted 37-59 to reject an amendment by Republican Senator John McCain to strip out language in the new Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty's (START) preamble tying offensive nuclear weapons to defensive systems.

The preamble is non-binding but, because it resulted from talks between Washington and Moscow, passing the amendment would have forced the accord back to the negotiating table, effectively killing the agreement.

Just before the vote, the White House released a letter from Obama to top lawmakers reaffirming his plan to deploy US missile defense systems and rejecting Russia's claim that doing so would justify withdrawing from START.

"Regardless of Russia's actions in this regard, as long as I am president, and as long as the Congress provides the necessary funding, the United States will continue to develop and deploy effective missile defenses to protect the United States, our deployed forces, and our allies and partners," he said.

Obama's strong message on an issue that has at times deeply angered Moscow came in a letter to Democratic Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and his Republican counterpart, Senator Mitch McConnell.

After reading it, Senator George Voinovich, an Ohio Republican who had been leaning toward the treaty, said the letter had reassured him and that he would now vote yes.

US Defense Secretary Robert Gates and top uniformed US military commanders have repeatedly rejected Republican charges that the accord hamstrings US missile defense plans -- a message Obama echoed in his letter.

"The New START treaty places no limitations on the development or deployment of our missile defense programs," the president said.

more at link.

[bikebloke]

18. School Desks

In our drills we had to huddle under our desks. If those desks can survive year after year of school children, then they surely can hold up to a nuclear blast.

[leftyladyfrommo]

21. Weren't those drills funny?

We had to get under our desks, too. We also had dog tags to wear.

Those were scary times. Everyone was afraid of a Russian nuclear attack. People built bomb shelters in their backyards. I used to have nightmares.

[hedgehog]

22. I must be the only baby boomer who never did that. I went

to a parochial school in an area suspicious of Catholics. Either the sisters must have figured that God would keep us safe or else the local Civil Authorities weren't that concerned about us! ;-)

Most likely, parochial schools just weren't tied into the civil defense system.

I do remember the altar servers telling us that the pastor boasted that the crypt in the new church could take a direct hit from a bomb.

[Democracyinkind]

23. Convincing America of the possibility and inevitability of a Soviet attack was one

of the cornerstones of the plan to hijack this country.

Not that the Soviet Ruling class was any less insane; they convinced their subjects of the same tale, vice-versa.

Today we know that it was all just a cooked up pile of lies, just as the "Team B" findings in the seventies, where Rumsfeld and friends composed a report on the Soviet Military that was based solely on their fantasies and projections and eventually came to trump CIA-assessments that basically said that the Soviet Union was in its death bed and drawing its last breath.

Social engineering at its most successful.

[maryf]

56. and they get better at it all the time...

good post, thanks.

[pipi_k]

33. I still can't look at those old films of drills without feeling sick...

I remember all too well the absolute terror.

I was a child then, and believed without question that ducking under our desks or lining up against the basement walls would save us.

I was concerned for my parents. They wouldn't be there in the school (although I and my two sisters were).

I believed they would be killed, and my sisters and I would be orphans.

those horrible sirens...I would lie awake at night expecting them to go off any minute...then we would all die.

The nightmares were awful. I really hope no child ever has to go through something like that again.

[IDemo]

57. I remember those drills

If a half inch thickness of particle board won't protect you from the effects of a thermonuclear blast, I don't know what would.

:patriot:

[Motown_Johnny]

19. Some basic information being available isn't a bad thing

Pretending that this possibility does not exist is foolish.


I don't have any problem with people being told to stay inside if this happens. There will always be an "outer ring" where this may actually help. Yes, I know it may only be about 1% of the effected area but that could still help save hundreds or even thousands of lives.


I see no advantage to suppressing information about limiting your exposure.

[elocs]

24. In 1966 my 9th grade science teacher told us that if there was a nuclear attack

while we were in school that they would send us home and let us die there. That was the most honest assessment of the situation that I have ever heard.

[Democracyinkind]

25. There was a thread about this the other day.

The official narrative seems to be that somehow people have gotten impression that it's best to flee when the A hits while the really smart thing to do would be to shelter yourself as best as possible.

Smart people in that thread noted that this wasn't new as it seems to be exactly the response advocated in the early "under-desk" drills.

[hedgehog]

42. In fact - it's very similar to what those of us who live near nuke plants are told -

that in the even of a leak, we may be safer at indoors at home than in our cars attempting to flee.

[Democracyinkind]

48. I live pretty close to one too. It entitles me to a free lifetime supply of iodine pills.

The advice really does make sense.

[maryf]

53. Free Iodine pills???

Doesn't that say something to you about how something is just not right? What are the rates of thyroid cancer, leukemia, and other cancers in your area compared to the norm? A friend of mine is a physician and he says any radiation is too much. I hope the iodine helps you. :(

[hedgehog]

58. You don't take the iodine pills unless there is a problem.

The idea is to flood your thyroid with safe iodine so it doesn't pick up any radioactive iodine.

[maryf]

60. which means there's a chance of picking up radioactive idodine...

right? I know two people who've had their thyroids removed due to a condition related to radiation exposure...one grew up about 10 miles from Indian point nuclear power plant...

[hedgehog]

62. Normally, the presence of a nuclear plant does not increase your

exposure to radiation. Unless Indian Point had releases I am unaware of, it had nothing to do with your friend's thyroid problem.

I live in the same county with 3 nukies. I am dubious about nuclear power because of the problem of long term storage of waste, and of course, things can go wrong, especially as the plants age out. However, day-to-day, they aren't a problem.

[maryf]

63. If you would like I can hunt up informationt to the contrary

My friend writes volumes on it. The thyroid condition is directly caused by exposure to radiation, maybe dental x-rays? (we all should be concerned then).

[hobbit709]

26. The only real way to survive: DON'T BE THERE WHEN IT GOES OFF

[maryf]

38. The 100% guarantee: Do away with all nukes!!!

even if you're not there the radiation travels in ways we can never totally suss.

[Gabi Hayes]

27. have they done anything about the mineshaft gap?

[blindpig]

31. 'Making the unthinkable thinkable', yes indeed

Preparing us for the future of capitalist competition, ala 1914, thanks guys.

Kill Capitalism

[maryf]

40. How many unthinkable, intolerable acts seem to be ok now??

torture, no habeus corpus, drone missiles, "collateral damage", environmental disasters... any way to maintain the power structure...it's so tiring to have to read into everything because doublespeak is the language used by the power/profit mongers.

[Starry Messenger]

32. More of "the new normal".

Maybe the job creation program they have in mind will be building fallout shelters. :sarcasm:

[maryf]

37. OH! we must be safe!

dontcha know...

on edit :sarcasm:

seems my messages aren't too clear of late...too much ruling class obfuscation to explain....

[gmoney]

43. Is this before or after I duct tape the plastic sheeting on my windows?

If the situation descends to that point, you might as well put a shotgun in your mouth, because life won't be worth living afterwards anyway.

[maryf]

49. yep.

but shhh! We gotta feel that somehow we'll be safe...

[Bucky]

45. "We have to get past the mental block that says it's too terrible to think about"

(Pssst, I think he's talking about all of the posters in this thread.)

[maryf]

52. He should be talking about everyone...

anyone who has looked into the devastation caused by nuclear radiation would find the use of nuclear abominable, egregious, and beyond too terrible to even consider.

[Better Believe It]

46. Getting ready for the new Korean war, a war to end "communist aggression" and "terrorism"?

[maryf]

54. Something that occurred to me too...

maybe that we're maybe trying to make it seem ok to nuke another country, especially such a "bad" one?

[Shallah Kali]

47. Duck & Cover!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lW4s7TETtJA

http://www.archive.org/details/DuckandC1951

[maryf]

55. I'll have to keep a newspaper with me...

might save me! ;)

[strawberryfield]

51. Short of a direct hit, I pretty much could

I have spent two decades building almost complete self sufficiency. I have 30 acres of land with green houses and underground storage. I produce my own energy, fiber, and food. I build and repair my own equipment. I live surprisingly well all things considered. i have done all this so I can live outside the corporate dominated economic structure, but surviving an apocalypse may be an added benefit

[nadinbrzezinski]

61. THis is what this is about

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12029875

It is getting hotter.

[maryf]

65. That's a huge part

I think too, read my comment # 64 too and thanks!

[elocs]

66. A kick for this thread. n/t