Detroit to close half its schools, raise class limit to 60.

[madfloridian]

Michigan Officials Order Robert Bobb To Shut Half The City's Schools

DETROIT (AP) -- State education officials have ordered the emergency financial manager for Detroit Public Schools to immediately implement a plan that balances the district's books by closing half its schools.

The Detroit News says the financial restructuring plan will increase high school class sizes to 60 students and consolidate operations.

State superintendent of public instruction Mike Flanagan says in a Feb. 8 letter that the state plans to install another financial manager who must continue to implement Emergency Financial Manager Robert Bobb's plan after he leaves June 30. Flanagan's said approval of Bobb's plan means the district can't declare bankruptcy.

Bobb filed his deficit elimination plan with the state in January, saying it would wipe out the district's $327 million deficit by 2014. Bobb was hired in March 2009 by then-Gov. Jennifer Granholm.

I am confused. I thought that in December a judge found that Bobb could not take over control from the local elected school board.

Judge rules Robert Bobb can not control Detroit schools. Gives power to school board.

Detroit — The Detroit Public Schools board controls the district's academics, not Emergency Financial Manager Robert Bobb, a judge ruled today in an opinion that found Bobb "chose to ignore the board's academic plan completely" and "failed to perform his duty to consult" with the 11-member body. Bobb's decision to make all academic, educational and social policy for the districts more than 70,000 students "runs afoul" of the legislative intent of the emergency financial manager law under which Bobb was appointed by the governor in 2009, according to Wayne Circuit Judge Wendy Baxter.

"Mr. Bobb cannot usurp the elected board's authority over academics and curriculum matters by creating his own academic system and programs under the guise of facilities or that his contract with the governor required him to march forward in this way," Baxter wrote in her 34-page opinion.

...""Clearly, this is a victory for the elected school board and for the democratic rights of the people of Detroit," said Joyce Schon, an attorney for the board. "The judge emphatically affirmed the right of the school board to determine academics and educational policy and declared that the board need not follow any orders from the EFM (Emergency Financial Manager) that involves academics or educational policy, including benchmark assessments and other academic tests."

Guess I was wrong. Guess the state officials overruled the local school boards and gave Bobb control. Wonder if an appeal reversed the December ruling?

Inquiring minds.

[howaboutme]

1. While we are still giving billions in foreign aid to

our special friends who have a nation in much much better condition than the USA. We need to take our country back and throw the lobbyists who think otherwise to the curb. The people did it in Egypt.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

26. School funding is primarily a state and local issue

[howaboutme]

35. Maybe it is a state and local issue, but

why are we still sending billions to other countries that have it far better than many Americans? We need to take our country back from lobbyists and pols who think otherwise.

[michaz]

2. Well it is no victory for the students that will have to try to learn in that environment. n/t

[southerncrone]

3. My guess is that the classrooms won't physically hold 60 students!

HOW? Really. HOW? :wtf:

Students will be forced to stand most of the day; sixty chairs will not fit in most classrooms. There will be fights & untold chaos; one teacher cannot handle 60 HS students at one time.

There will be lawsuits.

Good luck, Michigan.
My fellow teachers, I feel for you in Michigan. My cousin just retired from there.....I'm glad.

[madfloridian]

6. 60 would be unmanageable. This is not about the students.

It is about reopening them as charters or turning them around.

[southerncrone]

10. That's EXACTLY what it's about, Madfloridian.

You & I know it.

We also know it hasn't been about the students for a long time now. (sigh)

They never have trouble finding money for pro sports teams, convention centers, etc., but education.....sorry, outta funds. :banghead:

[remember2000forever]

45. You can't even teach 60 Adults in one class, let alone kids.

Yeah, yeah, I know; Maybe Real Estate Courses, and Video Classrooms in college......but these Students pay for the courses. But Kids? Little, walking formative minds? You have to be able to keep them focused as a teacher. I can't even imagine my former classrooms having the room for that many desks!

[blondeatlast]

46. Bingo. nt

[salin]

12. Fire code violations. Most hs classrooms can not accomodate 60 students.

I taught in Detroit. This move is inconceivable. Let's take the system with the lowest performing high schools (per grad rates - for at least the last two decades) and make the educational conditions almost impossible... ya that's a good idea.

My heart weeps.

[southerncrone]

18. Fire codes might be what ends up saving students & educators

from this madness!

[salin]

20. The plan is insane.

[MadMaddie]

28. Well I wouldn't be surprised if we see Repugs claim these

safety laws interfere with business or some bullshit.

I hope you are right but they are going after laws that were put in place because of devastating tradgedies.

[southerncrone]

34. Nothing is sacred w/them, except lining their pockets & getting

their way. They are despicable! :puke:

[barbtries]

25. i had the same thought

i figure they'll have to knock out walls to enlarge the classrooms.

i can hardly believe this is a true story. it is very sad.

[enlightenment]

4. Is that physically possible? There are federal and state regulations that

determine how many bodies a classroom may hold - and most classrooms are designed for that number of students. Many moons ago, I was enrolled in a new high school that was still under construction when the school year began, so they sent us to a different high school for half the year. Our school day started just about the time the 'regular' students of the other school left for the day (they created short schedules of 5 hours per day, each). The reason they had to do that was because they could not physically accommodate more bodies in the classrooms.

Wouldn't Detroit be running afoul of the law by doubling the number?

[southerncrone]

14. States usually set the limits on class size. Guess what?

Detroit is the largest city in MI. There is usually an "exception" to give school systems an "out" to allow for more students to be placed in a class.
For example: "There may not be over 33 in a class. HOWEVER, a 10% overage is allowed." This in essence will allow 36 to be placed in a class.

They will just vote to change the formula for "acceptable" class size.

To my knowledge, the Federal Govt. doesn't regulate that, but I'm not up on that. Perhaps madfloridian or proud2Blibkansan would know.

[sulphurdunn]

65. I'm certain you can cram

60 kids into a classroom. Hell, you could probably get 20 into a phone booth if you could find one. What you absolutely can't do is teach 60 students in a public school classroom.

[Starry Messenger]

5. k&r

Hopefully this will meet with resistance.

[SaveAmerica]

7. Guess they should have used that Superbowl Commercial Cash elsewhere

This is Detroit and this is how we do it.

[Romulox]

8. You realize that Detroit Public Schools and the Chrysler Corporation are two separate entities, yes?

Since your comment wasn't funny, I assume you were being serious? :shrug:

[SaveAmerica]

13. Can't Chrysler use the money in the school system? I find the money used on those

commercials wasteful and could have been better spent elsewhere. And I don't find very much of anything funny these days so you can take my comment as you wish.

[Romulox]

15. The Obama administration forced Chrysler into Bankruptcy in early 2009.

Chrysler required billions in bailouts to stay afloat. It's not in a position to fund the Detroit Public Schools.

"I find the money used on those commercials wasteful and could have been better spent elsewhere."

You think it's a waste for Chrysler to advertise? :wtf:

[SaveAmerica]

33. I'm really sorry that my poorly thought out comment has detracted from the issue at hand

Classroom sizes are going to increase to 60 per.

[madfloridian]

47. I have been told that attacking teachers is okay...

since I bought a Toyota. :eyes:

There are people who stalk my threads still....reminding me that teachers are fair game because I, a retired teacher, bought a Toyota.

There is no equivalency, but it still goes on here.

[sufrommich]

53. "There is no equivalency" Yes, there is. nt

[madfloridian]

55. I am so sorry you feel that way.

Blame me for the attacks on teachers.

Heck our country is so long gone right now I really expect to be blamed for that also.

:shrug:

[Romulox]

56. "Solidarity!" has a specific meaning. nt

[madfloridian]

59. Then start your own thread about how I single-handed destroyed the auto unions.

Don't hijack this one. You did this on the last thread I posted, and many before that.

This is about the destruction of public schools.

Hubby and I were both union, still pay dues.

So this is getting really annoying to me.

[Romulox]

61. The only person who has mentioned you in this thread is *you*.

You interjected yourself into this subthread; nobody was talking to, or about, you, before that.

[JDPriestly]

49. Maybe Michigan needs to take the Chrysler Corporation properties

under eminent domain and give Chrysler current market value -- which probably isn't much. Then the state could run Chrysler and use the profits for the schools. Chryslers would become a very popular care if Americans knew that the profits went to fund public schools.

Ah!! just a silly fantasy. I know the downsides are many, many, like the end of free enterprise as we know it and who in the world would want a car produced by a state that can't even educate its children properly.

Maybe there is a third way -- how about increasing sales taxes and giving the revenues to the schools or at least a part of the revenues to the schools.

I know DUers think sales taxes are regressive, but how about 60 kids to a classroom. Isn't that even more regressive? And income taxes don't work. Besides the cheating, there are too many loopholes.

[Romulox]

9. "Should I buy a Prius?"

I guess all this stuff IS interconnected, after all? :shrug:

[southerncrone]

17. Please buy a Ford.

(shameless begging :blush: for support of American business :patriot:that pays my bills)

And yes, EVERYTHING is interconnected.

[salin]

23. While I get your point... 2 decades ago "The Big Three" started closing plants

in metro Detroit and moving them to cheaper labor areas. Started happening decades ago. When I lived in the area and taught in Detroit in the early 90s - there was, on average, 3 abandoned homes per residential block. State this to say that this is not a "Prius" story (to easy) - but perhaps a frightening omen for other industrial based cities. Gary, Indiana isn't in much better shape (Steel Industry).

The industrial sector moving jobs to cheaper labor markets has been going on for decades. In my midwestern city we are not quite yet at 3 abandoned homes per residential block (per Detroit in the early 90s) - but we are starting to move that way. Of the six contiguous properties to my home in an urban neighborhood - two have been abandoned for more than 3 years. At one point four of the six were vacated.

I fear that "how goes Detroit... is how similar cities will go in the future."

[JDPriestly]

51. We need VAT taxes. Buy your Prius but pay additional taxes on it,

taxes that we can use to rebuild our country and fund our schools and medical care.

[demtenjeep]

11. WILL NEVER WORK

I Have had class sizes of anywhere from 15 to 45

the more students you get, the less efficient you get to be.

It becomes more like babysitting.

Middle School and High School students do NOT function like college kids.

One may be able to get by in college lecture style for big classes, but not lower grades.

Besides the fact that you can't do cooperative learing and kagan activities with lecture type numbers.

[caty]

16. As a former teacher,

I find this totally unacceptable. 20 is good, 30 or more is touch and go.
60 would be a waste of learning ability for the students and I could see a lot of teachers moving on.

[shanti]

31. that would probably be the point

to get the teachers to "move on".

[WinkyDink]

19. Sixty students? SIXTY STUDENTS?!?! I could wreak serious injury on the person who would order that.

[BobbyBoring]

44. Especially

I light of the fact that Detroit has a 48% illiteracy rate among adults. This will help a lot~

[RedCloud]

21. Why not just one class with 100,000,000 students?

Too ridiculous? I would teach it after first taking roll for about 1,000 years.

[wickerwoman]

22. Just put them all in the gym and turn on the TV.

It's not like they need to know anything. There won't be any jobs for them anyway.

;(

:sarcasm:

[riderinthestorm]

24. A friend of mine was a nun and told me about her first classroom assignment

She said that in her day there were only 3 occupations for women in the Catholic order she joined: drudge, teacher, nurse. She was told she was going to be a teacher.

Her first class as a new teacher was 56 first graders! She was not only expected to get them all reading and doing basic math, they were also supposed to learn some kind of Catholic catechism (could it be confirmation?) and have them all orderly and ready to present to the visiting priest anytime.

She said that was when she realized why there was so much corporal punishment in her Catholic schools as she was growing up! The nuns literally beat the shit out of the kids to get them to behave in the class.

ETA: She always said that any classroom of more than 25 was like adding an extra 5 kids per additional child. It just became impossible to manage them effectively and the rowdy factor became akin to a contagion.

(FWIW, she left the nunnery after 10 years and has been a happy atheist for the next 40 years, teaching in the public schools for 30 of those years).

[Starry Messenger]

30. Great story, thank you.

Her observations are spot-on.

[southerncrone]

36. That does explain why they are so mean! LOL

I was looking thru some old photos my mom had recently. My 3rd grade class in Catholic school had 43 students! We learned & did NOT have any behavior problems. THEREIN lies the difference. Plus you could be kicked out of Catholic school & your family shamed. Public schools don't have that luxury.

[WCIL]

40. All of my husband's grade school stories seem to end with

...and then Sister dragged me into the hallway and beat me with her ruler. His classes K-8 ebbed and flowed from 50ish to 60ish students each year. There was no way to teach all those kids, and if he had not been a self-motivated reader he wouldn't have learned much at all.

My own children attended parochial school and my son's class was particularly large for this point in time. We had to do a lot of reinforcement at home on concepts, because there was just no time to make sure 32 students fully grasped the subject matter every day.

[radhika]

58. My Parochial School had 60+ students each grade

This was in the late 50's. The same nun was with us for the whole day. For discipline we sat with hand behind our backs and the wooden pointer was freely used. Occassionaly a really challenging kid (always a boy) was put in the unlit, small janitor's closet as punishment. When a kid did a bad thing like pass a note, or run in the recess yard. Like today's teachers, the nuns had no say in their teaching conditions. The parish priests and the local diocese pulled the strings.

These are the good ol' days, weren't they Repuggies? And they are coming baaaaccck.....

[RegieRocker]

27. Folks this is what it's all about. The further dumbing down

of the American people. Then they are easily told what to do.

[RedCloud]

29. That's what the tea party needs to breed some more of their kind.

[originalpckelly]

32. On another note, double-decker desks are all the rage in Detroit...

I smell a business opportunity!

[southerncrone]

37. Bunk desks! LOL

:fistbump:

Ya gotta laugh or cry about this insanity!

[Rex]

38. Failsauce.

Poor a little more failsauce on that one! :dunce: 60 students a class is ridiculous and done to push teachers out and into other districts or careers. Might as well fire the new teachers and save them from the horrors of 400 freshmen or sophomores with no help. It's gonna happen a lot. :dunce:

[upi402]

39. No jobs, tax cuts, no shit!

CA Bay Area is closing schools May have already done it.

[Chisox08]

41. What the hell is going on?

60 students in a class!? Is that even possible? This is another attack on public education.
I have this feeling that they are trying to break public education to a point so that they can yell see public schools don't work. So lets privatize all of them so our rich buddies can get richer. To the public school teacher you can take slave wages or be unemployed. This is just plain sick.

[madfloridian]

42. It's a concerted attack on public education and other public sector jobs.

It's been planned and coordinated for years with big money behind it.

[madfloridian]

43. Here is more about the closings.

http://www.detnews.com/article/20110221/SCHOOLS/102210355/1409/Michigan-orders-DPS-to-make-huge-cuts

"Lansing— Swift and severe changes are coming to Detroit Public Schools. State education officials have ordered Robert Bobb to immediately implement a financial restructuring plan that balances the district's books by closing half of its schools, swelling high school class sizes to 60 students and consolidating operations.

This week, Bobb, the district's emergency financial manager, said he is meeting with Detroit city officials and will set up a meeting with Wayne County Regional Educational Service Agency to discuss consolidation opportunities in areas such as finance, public safety, transportation and other areas.

Bobb also is preparing a list of recommended school closures and Friday said layoff discussions are under way and would be announced closer to April, when notices would be issued. "We are moving forward with the plan," he said "Right now my focus is on my transition plan and the DEP (deficit elimination plan)."

Bobb's last day with DPS is June 30. After that, the state plans to install another financial manager who must continue to implement Bobb's plan, according to a Feb. 8 letter from Mike Flanagan, the state superintendent of public instruction."

From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20110221/SCHOOLS/102210355/Michigan-orders-DPS-to-make-huge-cuts#ixzz1Ehz3kcOp

[remember2000forever]

54. And in this poor economic climate, the parents don't even have

the opportunity to relocate! Set, Game, Match!

[AllyCat]

48. How can anyone effectively teach 60 kids? Hell, even a college professor

would have a TA or two for that many. And now the teachers who are left will have to make sure they pass all those stupid NCLB tests.

Schools are the criminals and the corporations go free. I am just sick.

[ScreamingMeemie]

50. Effective teaching hasn't gone on in Detroit for some time now.

It's not the fault of the teachers. They held on as long as they could.

[madfloridian]

52. This is not about the kids at all. It is their ideology.

Shrink anything government, shut it down. They may be a minority, but they have had no opposition. Our party has not fought back, and they have kaboodles of money. Money wins.

[delightfulstar]

57. Talk about FAIL....

Way to sabotage your youth, Detroit. As if there aren't enough barriers for these kids already...poverty, blight, a bad economy. If TPTB are looking for a brighter future, they should start with the ones who can help shape it.

[WolverineDG]

60. SIXTY????????

:wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :wtf: :crazy: :wtf::crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :wtf: :crazy: :wtf::crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :wtf: :crazy: :wtf::crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :wtf: :crazy: :wtf::crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :wtf: :crazy: :wtf::crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :wtf: :crazy: :wtf::crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :wtf: :crazy: :wtf::crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :wtf: :crazy: :wtf::crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :wtf: :crazy: :wtf::crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :wtf: :crazy: :wtf::crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :wtf: :crazy: :wtf::crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :wtf: :crazy: :wtf::crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf::wtf: :crazy: :wtf:

[theaocp]

62. It will show the public schools CAN'T handle their classes

so charters, parochial, etc. will have to come to the rescue. Voila! Privatization on a stick. It's welfare for corporations and NO ACCOUNTABILITY to those who actually live in the district.

Somebody's gettin' PAID, bitches. Follow the money.

[madfloridian]

63. 3 unrecs in the last hour. Guess it goes to priorities.

And the values people give to public education. :shrug:

These attacks on public education are going to be happening more and more. I guess we accept that like we do most everything else now.

[madfloridian]

64. CNN Money says Bobb is giving "tough love". So that's what they call it now?

There's a video at the link of Robert Bobb. Detroit's Tough Love School Sheriff? What a name.

http://money.cnn.com/2011/02/22/news/economy/detroit_school_restructuring/

He says if they don't save the school system Detroit will die. So saving the school system is upping class size to 60 and closing half the schools?

My heart is breaking.