Day 3 of Historic Prison Strike in Georgia - Blacked out By Media

[Truth2Tell]

http://hiphopandpolitics.wordpress.com/2010/12/12/day-3-of-historic-prison-strike-in-georgia-blacked-out-by-media-guards-committing-violence/

On Thursday morning, December 9, 2010, thousands of Georgia prisoners refused to work, stopped all other activities and locked down in their cells in a peaceful protest for their human rights. The December 9 Strike became the biggest prisoner protest in the history of the United States. Thousands of men, from Augusta, Baldwin, Hancock, Hays, Macon, Smith and Telfair State Prisons, among others, initiated this strike to press the Georgia Department of Corrections (“DOC”) to stop treating them like animals and slaves and institute programs that address their basic human rights. They set forth the following demands:

· A LIVING WAGE FOR WORK
· EDUCATIONAL OPPORTUNITIES
· DECENT HEALTH CARE
· AN END TO CRUEL AND UNUSUAL PUNISHMENTS
· DECENT LIVING CONDITIONS
· NUTRITIONAL MEALS
· VOCATIONAL AND SELF-IMPROVEMENT OPPORTUNITIES
· ACCESS TO FAMILIES
· JUST PAROLE DECISIONS


Despite that the prisoners’ protest remained non-violent, the DOC violently attempted to force the men back to work—claiming it was “lawful” to order prisoners to work without pay, in defiance of the 13th Amendment’s abolition of slavery. In Augusta State Prison, six or seven inmates were brutally ripped from their cells by CERT Team guards and beaten, resulting in broken ribs for several men, one man beaten beyond recognition. This brutality continues there. At Telfair, the Tactical Squad trashed all the property in inmate cells. At Macon State, the Tactical Squad has menaced the men for two days, removing some to the “hole,” and the warden ordered the heat and hot water turned off. Still, today, men at Macon, Smith, Augusta, Hays and Telfair State Prisons say they are committed to continuing the strike. Inmate leaders, representing blacks, Hispanics, whites, Muslims, Rastafarians, Christians, have stated the men will stay down until their demands are addressed, one issuing this statement:

“…Brothers, we have accomplished a major step in our struggle…We must continue what we have started…The only way to achieve our goals is to continue with our peaceful sit-down…I ask each and every one of my Brothers in this struggle to continue the fight. ON MONDAY MORNING, WHEN THE DOORS OPEN, CLOSE THEM. DO NOT GO TO WORK. They cannot do anything to us that they haven’t already done at one time or another. Brothers, DON’T GIVE UP NOW. Make them come to the table. Be strong. DO NOT MAKE MONEY FOR THE STATE THAT THEY IN TURN USE TO KEEP US AS SLAVES….”

http://hiphopandpolitics.wordpress.com/2010/12/12/day-3-of-historic-prison-strike-in-georgia-blacked-out-by-media-guards-committing-violence/">More...

[EFerrari]

1. K&R

[Puregonzo1188]

2. K&R was just about to post, but you beat me to it!

I got too hung up on that German castration thread.


Here's more info:

The prisoner strike in Georgia is unique, sources among inmates and their families say, because it includes not just Black prisoners, but Latinos and whites, too, a departure from the usual sharp racial divisions that exist behind prison walls.

Inmate families and other sources claim that when thousands of prisoners remained in their cells Thursday, authorities responded with violence and intimidation. Tactical officers rampaged through Telfair State Prison destroying inmate personal effects and severely beating at least six prisoners. Inmates in Macon State Prison say authorities cut the prisoners' hot water, and at Telfair, the administration shut off heat Thursday when daytime temperatures were in the 30s. Prisoners responded by screening their cells with blankets, keeping prison authorities from performing an accurate count, a crucial aspect of prison operations.<...>
The nine specific demands made by Georgia's striking prisoners in two press releases pointedly reflect many of the systemic failures of the U.S. regime of mass incarceration and the utter disconnection of U.S. prisons from any notions of protecting or serving the public interest. Prisoners are demanding, in their own words, decent living conditions, adequate medical care and nutrition, educational and self-improvement opportunities, just parole decisions, an end to cruel and unusual punishments, and better access to their families.

http://socialistworker.org/2010/12/13/prisoners-strike-in-georgia

[Hannah Bell]

3. kr

[Recursion]

4. NYT, Slate, ABC, every GA outlet

...not to mention NewsOne and WSWS.

What an effective "blackout".

Best of luck to the strikers, though. The pay demands are especially important; outsourcing to cheap prison labor has to stop.

Here's a good NYT piece:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/13/us/13prison.html

[Truth2Tell]

5. If I haven't seen it

then its a blackout. :P

[Truth2Tell]

6. dupe

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Part of trends

[Upton]

8. "A LIVING WAGE FOR WORK"

:rofl: They're in prison!

For 99% of them, it's their own damn fault. Many guilty of violent crimes. They'll get no sympathy from me.

[Krakowiak]

9. yay for slave labor! (nt)

[Krakowiak]

10. dupe.

[Earth_First]

11. Perhaps the 'living wage' concession is moot

However, the right to not be beaten by overzealous corrections officers holds merit.

They have plenty of sympathy from me...

[walldude]

12. Yes they are in prison.

So breaking the law makes you an automatic slave? Ever got a traffic ticket? Ever been busted for a joint? Not everyone in prison deserves to be there and no one, no matter what, should be forced into slavery.

Not to mention that you might want to look for the article posted yesterday about how corporations like Starbucks are using prison labor instead of paying real wages to people who need work. Just another way to feed the fat cats while the poor and middle class suffer. But don't let that get in the way of your self-righteousness.

[Occam Bandage]

15. Breaking a law for which the legal punishment is prison does make you a slave, yes.

That is the law, and it's not a law that I believe is fundamentally unjust. I believe that the American justice system is, in its particulars, often unnecessarily and unfairly harsh (especially in regards to drug crimes), but that doesn't mean that the very notion of prison is unjust.

[NuclearDem]

43. Prison exists to protect society from criminals and rehabilitate those men

Not turn them into slave labor for the state.

Every prison system I've seen allows its inmates to work in the prison and get paid for their work. It's part of rehabilitating them; teach them how to work and effectively manage their money.

[ProudDad]

102. Ah, but rehabilitation was completely thrown out of the window in the 1960s

Jails and prisons became a mechanism for blind, mindless, brutal punishment...

What passes for "rehabilitation" in the steaming warrens of overcrowded USAmerican prisons run by the most predatory of the inmates is a weak joke...

And every prison system I've seen in this country "pays" prisoners so little that it's an insult rather than a wage...

But then again, given the current and probable future state of the USAmerican "economy" for working people, I suppose that insulting wages, brutal working conditions and squalid living conditions DOES get them ready for their new life outside... :shrug:

[Sirveri]

72. Incorrect, slavery requires labor. Prison simply requires you to be isolated from society.

So long as there is no labor, then it can't be called slavery or involuntary servitude. So the mere act of being restrained and kept in a specific location can not be called slavery, so long as labor isn't involved.

[Pacifist Patriot]

126. There's a leap here from...

a constitutional clause allowing slavery and involuntary servitude as punishment in the case of the duly convicted to assuming every criminal conviction automatically renders the convict a slave.

[Sirveri]

131. I agree, furthermore Bailey v. AL would indicate that the state can't compel labor

Specifically in the case of fraud. It could easily be argued that the protections granted by Bailey extend to all prisoners. Furthermore the very language of the 13th Amendment, if you removed the one exemption for crimes, is very explicit. Slavery isn't just prohibited, it shall not exist.

[DireStrike]

112. You do not understand either the law, or the definition of slavery.

[littlewolf]

160. you want to see harsh drug laws .. go overseas ...

U.S. Prisons are club med in comparison ...
someplaces overseas .. If your family doesn't give you food
you don't eat ...
NO medical care ..
beatings like you cant believe
etc ...

[Upton]

17. Okay..

I won't let it get in the way of my "self-righteousness." :rofl:

The prison population isn't represented by those in there for just a traffic ticket or getting busted with a joint. Fact is, the vast majority are violent and career criminals making the kind of demands, such as "DECENT HEALTH CARE" that many on the outside don't have access to. Screw them.

[TheKentuckian]

75. Most are in for drugs or some vice "crime". Aka shit that is a crime because somebody says so.

[Pacifist Patriot]

142. I'd really appreciate it if you could cite for us where you got your...

"fact is, the vast majority are violent and career criminals" information. The Bureau of Justice statistics contradicts you and I suspect they are in a position to know better.

[Obamanaut]

20. +1. I cannot conjure up any sympathy either for a striking force

made up of rapists, murderers, pedophiles, arsonists, thieves, etc.

I think it is interesting that when we read of a particularly heinous crime, there will be multiple posts saying how they hope the person (who did the heinous crime) is put into general population where he will get the punishment he deserves.

And now there are multiple posts about sympathy for these "strikers." They get food, lodging, medical and dental care, access to law libraries and people who are trained to assist them in their "cases."

Boggles my mind.

[Truth2Tell]

24. boggles your mind?

sorry about that. I hope you get well someday.

[Obamanaut]

32. It will pass. It is amazing how, on the same forum, one can read one

day about how all sorts of punishment should be inflicted on a wrongdoer while incarcerated, and another day there are panties all wadded up about a living wage for inmates. A living wage!

They get food, lodging, medical care, dental care, glasses, laundry services. I knew one inmate who got a liver, another who got a whole new eye.

The mind boggle has passed. It's just another day on DU.

[LanternWaste]

133. I would imagine the one is merely a visceral expression of revenge

I would imagine the one is merely a visceral expression of revenge, wholly lacking in consequence whilst the other is predicated on a national system of fair justice. While I see that as a precise and relevant difference, I can understand that others cannot or will not-- however I suppose that too is simply another day on DU.

[antigone382]

27. Do you have any evidence that the prison population is dominated by the people you describe?

Do you know anything about the incarceration rates in this country, or the disproportionate number of minorities and poor people in prison? Do you know anything about the expansion of the for-profit prison industry and its exploitation and abuse of inmates and their families? Do you know how many people I know who have felonies for nonviolent crimes, who risk prison if they can't get to their probation meeting, or can't come up with a payment, or mess up in any kind of inconsequential way, or just freak out and give up because they can't handle it any more? Have you ever actually had to live and work with people who have gotten sucked into our judicial system? Do you know anything about the piles and piles of fines and court costs, the hoops they make you jump through to get out of that system?

I swear, the responses to this strike and the ignorance they display have been totally disgusting, to say the least. It is impossible to be an informed progressive and not see the horrific inhumanity and corruption that is the modern United States Justice System.

[Obamanaut]

31. Are you suggesting that the prison population does not contain

rapists, murderers, thieves, pedophiles and arsonists?

Do you know how many different individuals of those groups I talked with, daily, during my time as a correctional officer, and later as a special ed teacher aide in the prison education department?

It may come as a surprise, but there are many incarcerated felons who are there not because of being caught with some recreational weed, but in fact have done some really awful stuff.

[antigone382]

35. Some in prison are bad guys, therefore no one in prison deserves any basic human rights.

And we should just be happy with our soaring incarceration rates and the for-profit prison system, because some of those guys suck and are getting what they deserve.

Your position as a correctional officer gives you no credibility with me. I've known too many of them.

[Obamanaut]

84. No credibility with you? My day is ruined. Oh nooooo. nt

[Tsiyu]

135. I bet you can ruin - and have ruined - many days

Just a hunch, but I'm sure I'd win the bet...


people without consciences cannot have "ruined days" But they can definitely abuse and "ruin the days" of those over whom they have control.

Sad. They really need therapy, not jobs with power in prisons.....

[Obamanaut]

152. Analysis on the internet. Oooh. nt

[WinkyDink]

58. Nobody is for coddling. But slavery is unconstitutional.

[Occam Bandage]

63. Not for prisoners. Read the 13th amendment. nt

[Pacifist Patriot]

124. There is a fundamental problem with your citing of the 13th amendment.

Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

The amendment does not mean slavery and involuntary servitude are automatic punishment for all criminal convictions or even that incarceration is assumed to include slavery.

We would have to check the text of our inmates' actual court sentences and see whether or not "slavery and involuntary servitude" were included to determine the validity of citing the 13th amendment in each case.

[ProudDad]

103. That explains it...

Among the MOST CLUELESS about what really goes on in prisons are "corrections officers"...

And you are displaying a classic form of "us and them" objectification...

Paint ALL prisoners with the broad brush of the "worst of the worst"...

Consider the source, folks...

[Pacifist Patriot]

125. Based upon my limited experience and perspective...

I think COs should have to retire or change jobs after a certain length of time like air traffic controllers do. It really is a horrific environment that affects every person after awhile.

[blueamy66]

137. Ain't that the truth.

The stuff people get away with in sheriif joe's tent city in AZ is ridiculous. The COs are just dumb.

And health care in AZ jails? Read the New Times....very eye opening.

[mudplanet]

136. 50% of people in state prisons are there for possessing or selling drugs,

http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/publications/factsht/crime/index.html

People in prison aren't slaves and still have many rights, spelled out in international law and in the US constitution.

Yes, a lot of people in prison need to be there to protect the general population of the country.

But how you treat prisoners reflects directly back on you. The type of person you are. If you think it's ok to treat people inhumanely, what kind of person are you? If the treatment of prisoners violates either US or international law, the people that inflict/impose that treatment are criminals themselves and belong in prison.

[NuclearDem]

44. The prisoners aren't being given access to those materials

Hence, the whole damn point of the strike.

[Obamanaut]

82. They must have access to something, otherwise no one would know

about any of this strike to post all these sympathy generating responses :sarcasm: here.

[Hannah Bell]

147. it specifically says contraband "cell phones"

and that the prisons are now on lockdown

[WinkyDink]

55. Sounds like you envy them. It's easy to join them, if so.

[Obamanaut]

81. That is ridiculous. No, it's funny. I've worked in the prison system as

both a guard and as a teacher aide in the education department of a prison.

Meals, laundry service, air conditioned classrooms, television (no cable, but several channels available), exercise equipment, medical/dental/vision care. There are people posting on this forum who don't have all that, and folks still expect sympathy for large groups of rapists, murderers, thieves, pedophiles, arsonists, scammers, etc.

[defendandprotect]

118. I'm sure you would find being caged in a prison cell joy ....

but somehow despite your glowing report, I have the feeling that most of us would

find the amenities less than satisifying.

Health care? There is very little health care for any but the wealthy in American right

now -- but I'm sure we're spending a ton of money on providing health care for those you

are so certain are "large groups of rapists, murderers, thieves, pedophiles, arsonists,

scammers, etc."

But I think you've given us a good look at the types of people they are hiring as

prison "guards." And it only increases my concerns about brutality in our prisons.

[Pacifist Patriot]

123. For someone who had an inside view you have an odd memory.

I'd really love to know which prison system you have experience with that you'll give a glowing report of the meals and other services available to inmates.

[hedgehog]

153. I suspect that conditions in state prisons vary greatly state to state.

[defendandprotect]

115. "Beware of those with a strong urge to punish" ....

We have a right to protect society from prisoners -- we do not have a right to

use them as slaves, feed them garbage, torture them -- nor fail to try to

rehabilitate them.

Keep in mind that we release close to a half million prisoners each year on parole.

What state should these prisoners be in when released?

Unfit for human society -- or somewhere on the road of being rehabilitated?

[Pacifist Patriot]

122. Interesting assumptions about the crimes. Majority of inmates....

don't fit your description. That's not to say they aren't there, but they are the minority of offenses represented in our prison system.

And for what it's worth, I know exactly what type of response to which you are referring and I always bristle when I see a virtual lynch mob clamoring for prison rape as a response to a heinous crime.

[antigone382]

21. dupe n/t

[antigone382]

22. Yeah, cuz it's not like we have the highest percentage and number of incarcerated people...

...of any country in the world, including China, or anything...and it's not like incarceration rates aren't severely disproportionate along racial and socioeconomic lines, or anything...and it's not like "three-strikes" laws and other "zero tolerance," "tough on crime," and various "get out the law and order vote" legislation has severely increased the number of people incarcerated for nonviolent, and possibly even victimless crimes...and it's not like you can just about get a felony for blinking these days...and it's not like we have a huge and growing for-profit prison industry that uses prison labor to complete work for major corporations that some American, or hell, some Mexican, Indian, or Chinese person could be paid enough to actually make a living doing on the outside...and it's not like actually teaching a marketable skill or dealing with the psychological and sociological aspects of deviancy in a way that actually addresses the problem might just plain be better at solving the problem, or anything...

By the way, got a citation for that 99% statistic?

[Tsiyu]

34. 99% is a bullshit figure and the poster knows it

Actually, it destroys this poster's opportunity to be recognized as any sort of reliable witness.

Sort of flies in the face of actual JUSTICE DEPARTMENT statistics, which put non-violent incarceration at between 40% and 60% of the prison populations around the nation.

But it's best not to argue with former prison employees or anyone who owns Wackenhut or Prison industry stock.

Authoritarianism is their favorite game....and revenue stream!

[ProudDad]

104. Reason is wasted on some...

Just let them wallow in their hate and ignorance...

[whistler162]

23. Sounds good but charge them for room and board.....

at hotel room and restaurant rates!

[Obamanaut]

25. And laundry, and medical/dental insurance, and a fee to pay all the

guards' salaries.

[antigone382]

28. Should we charge them for the beatings and rapes as well? n/t

[NutmegYankee]

33. Those are on the house!

Just for your knowledge, I live in Connecticut, a state that saw a brutal crime where 2 girls and the mother were raped and murdered by being set on fire with gasoline while tied to the bed. I've seen a decent young man murdered (knifed) by six youth who were "bored", a local business plaza (pizza, chinese, pet grooming place) get burned to the ground by an arsonist and a robbery of a local bar. Add to that the massive theft ring that was broken and a warehouse found with over 200,000 stolen items that will take months to sort through and I'm all sympathies the fuck out.

Rape is unacceptable, but I really can't feel sorry for the criminals in prison. There have been too many hits lately to the community.

The young man, Matthew Chew, only was able to get two words out before he was killed. "what" and "why". He was jumped and beaten/killed because six youth were bored and decided to just attack him. He was just walking home from work two blocks away from his apt. http://www.theday.com/article/20101211/NWS02/312119887

A local food plaza, including my favorite pizza place was burned to ground by an arsonist destroying businesses that had been staples of the local community.



At some point you become numb.

[antigone382]

36. WE HAVE MORE PEOPLE IN PRISON THAN ANY OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD.

MORE THAN CHINA. MORE THAN ANY OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD. THEY ARE NOT ALL VICIOUS PREDATORS, AND THEY DESERVE TO BE TREATED LIKE HUMAN BEINGS.

And for the record, Connecticut sure as hell doesn't have a monopoly on vicious crimes. I'm aware of quite a few in my community so the condescension is really unecessary. I also am smart enough to see through using a few horrific examples to arouse an emotional response, in order to justify brutal and exploitative practices that UNDERMINE LABOR OUTSIDE THE PRISON SYSTEM. I have seen this in my own community, thank you.

[Kaleko]

37. Fierce one and well done, antigone!

[antigone382]

38. I really don't like to get aggressive and disrespectful....

...but this is just more than I can handle. Institutionalized abuse and exploitation is OK, the unfettered expansion of the prison-industrial complex is OK, and a widespread group of inmates overcoming social and racial divisions to stand together in a PEACEFUL protest is not only wrong, but laughable, because some of the guys in prison are admittedly, terrible people???

Where have these people been?

[Ghost in the Machine]

49. Do you know *why* our incarceration rate is higher than China's?

Go on, take a guess....

For the Bonus Round, would you like to tell us if you want us to be like China?

Thanks..

[antigone382]

52. It's not just higher than China's. It's higher than any other country in the world.

As in number. Not percentage. Do you expect me to believe that we are that much more violent than the people in countries with much larger populations, like India for example? We have longer prison sentences. We have higher incarceration rates for drug-possession and other non-violent offenses. We have an extremely high recidivism rate, which works out well if you want a captive supply of really cheap labor, but not so much if you're trying to establish a functioning society. And let's not forget the racism and classism demonstrable in this system.

And yes, you got me, I hope we become just like China.

[Ghost in the Machine]

66. We are higher because China **EXECUTES** almost 2000 people per year, some for minor drug crimes

.. some for economic crimes, and get this, some for even *attempting* certain crimes.

They executed 5,000 to 6,000 people in 2007, down from 10,000 in 2005:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_the_People's_Republic_of_China

[antigone382]

68. I repeat, we have more prisoners than any other nation in the world.

Not just China.

Being "not as inhumane as China" is not my standard for human rights in the justice system.

[Hannah Bell]

144. even if they stopped executing 2000-10,000, we'd *still* have a higher rate of imprisonment.

btw, here are the executions scheduled for 2010 in the us

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/execution-list-2010

[Canuckistanian]

71. +100

Righteous rant.

[NutmegYankee]

77. Emotional? Yes it is.

I live in a rural area, and have taken on a rural mindset naturally. Violent crime is rare, and yet here have been several nasty ones close to home in a short span of time.


I could care less about criminals doing time in prison. If they don't want the time, don't do the crime.

[antigone382]

78. I've lived in a rural area my whole life.

In the south, no less. I have heard and seen my share of horror stories, believe me. That has nothing to do with thinking it's acceptable to cut off basic human rights from a broad group of people based on what a few of them may have done.

But sure, let's beat all the nonviolent offenders (who make up somewhere between 40%-60% of the prison population), deprive them of basic nutrition or medical care, pimp them out to multinational corporations, and turn our backs while they're raped, so that you can feel better about arson and murder in your community.

It is much easier than you think to become exactly what you claim to hate.

[NutmegYankee]

80. As in a conservative?

No. My economic views are very far left. Most of my social views are also to the left. I just have little sympathy for a bunch of criminals protesting condition inside prison. It's jail, it's supposed to suck.

They still eat better than many poor families on the outside. The prisoners claim poor nutrition, but I highly doubt it. I'll never forget my days serving in the Appalachia project - That was/is poor nutrition.

I already said I consider rape always unacceptable, but the beatings above sound less like beatings and more like struggles with the guards.

[antigone382]

86. I live in Appalachian Tennessee, so I guess I know about that.

(and yes, I regularly live without running water, and have gone hungry on occasion. I'm not looking for pity, just stating realities about the way of life). My county is easy to spot on any ARC maps--it's a dark little dot of "distressed" by just about every economic measure, not too far from the Alabama border.I also know a lot of people who have been in and out of the prison system here. Crime and poverty are extremely closely related, and things are stacked so heavily against offenders ever paying off their debts and getting out of the system that the idea is almost laughable. I don't know what the justice system is like up North, but down here getting thrown in prison just isn't that hard.

Further, I know too much about the judgmental, unforgiving, law-and-order-obsessed culture of Georgia (having spent my first twenty or so years there) to be under any illusion that the system has any mercy for anyone. The attitude that anyone who is in prison is obviously a fundamentally bad person who deserves whatever treatment they get is pervasive, and I have seen the harm it has done. I have seen the families it has torn apart, I have seen the lives it has ruined. We feed young men to the prisons down here, and take a sadistic pleasure in their misery. No matter how you end up in that situation, once you are there, you are no longer a human. Not only that, but we do this along undeniably racist and classist lines.

I do not base my response to human suffering and pain on what the worst of society are capable of. I do not base it on the desire for revenge or to identify scapegoats. I base it on a fundamental principle that human beings are human beings, and further, on the knowledge that our justice system is increasingly inadequate to the task of recognizing this.

Again, the fact that there may or may not have been a few actual terrorists in Guantanamo or Abu Ghraib does not justify what took place there--and if you think that kind of degradation is absent from U.S. Federal prisons, you are kidding yourself.

[ProudDad]

105. +1000

[SammyWinstonJack]

116. +1000!

:applause:

[galileoreloaded]

132. CHINA HARVESTS PRISONERS ORGANS FOR PROFIT...hey, I like typing in all caps! n/t

[antigone382]

155. I'm glad for you. Once again "less barbaric than China" =/= "satisfactory"

At least not in my book.

Once again, we have more people incarcerated than any other country in the world...not just China. That includes countries with much higher populations than ours, like India, and it is not because we have more violent crime here. It is because we imprison a lot of people for a long time, for relatively minor, non-violent offenses. Along racial and socioeconomic lines. And we sure as hell do abuse them and treat them like subhumans while they're there.

I'm not asking for a weekly dinner catered from the Ritz. I'm asking for our criminal justice system to incorporate a few of the basic lessons of sociology regarding deviance and how to avoid recidivism, and it's what the men of a broad spectrum of races are *peacefully* asking for in this protest as well.

[superduperfarleft]

45. Oh, noez, Connecticut!

:rofl:

Dude, I'm in Philadelphia, and I still think that prisoners have certain basic human rights.

[antigone382]

53. lmao

seriously, I'm in Appalachian Tennessee. Wanna talk about some messed up shit people do??? It doesn't give the government the right to treat prisoners any way it damn well pleases, and it doesn't give industry the right to cut costs with captive labor when we have so many people in this country who are desperate for a job.


It's like arguing that Abu Ghraib was OK because there were some actual terrorists in there.

[NutmegYankee]

76. I live in a rural area. Crime is not expected here.

Violent crime is very noticed when you live in a quiet peaceful area.

[antigone382]

79. Crime is actually more frequent in rural areas.

I know this, because I've lived in rural areas my whole life. Human rights are still human rights, and there is no justification for thinking it is OK to throw those away because it will give you some sense of catharsis.

Need I mention that prisoners in Georgia likely have no connection to any crimes which took place in Connecticut. Even rural Connecticut; none of the people involved in this *peaceful* protest has likely harmed you or your community in any way.

[rfranklin]

140. So everyone in prison is a murderer?

citing a few horrific crimes is an emotional argument not logic or justification.

[NutmegYankee]

156. Everyone uses some emotion in an argument.

We argue for Single payer and Unemployment benefits partly out of empathy for the folks affected. Sure, there are tons of logical and factual arguments too, but empathy is a major driving factor.

I just don't empathize with criminals.

[Starry Messenger]

26. Um, even besides the human rights problem this *does* drive down wages

for people who are *not* incarcerated. Companies that have a free supply of captive labor are hardly going to look outside for people they actually have to pay. And if companies are making super-profits from this practice, who can say they won't start greasing the skids to jailing people for jaywalking as long as you keep adding to the workforce of free labor. Paying the jailed workers a real wage would help this. Plus it's the right thing to do.

[antigone382]

29. I see this happening in my own community.

I'm from a town dominated by a very powerful private university, with a campus police force that, for some very odd reason, has jurisdiction off campus, and even off the domain of the university. It's complex to explain how this works, but basically the vice chancellor acts as the mayor of the town, which is technically on the university property...but again, the campus police have jurisdiction off university property as well.

It is well known, and in fact stated by the campus police themselves, that they try not to arrest students when they get caught doing something illegal, but rather send them through the university's own disciplinary process. However, they do not deal with the local working class people the same way. Working class kids are arrested and sent through the judicial system, and then banned from the campus, which effectively denies them access to jobs available on campus. However, I have seem for myself men in orange jumpsuits doing the landscaping on campus grounds. Landscaping is a pretty decent paying job around here, that a lot of the kids here know how and would be willing to do. It's a pretty sweet deal...send a guy through the local justice system, and pay him pennies an hour for a job that would normally be somewhere in the area of $12-$15 per hour.

[Starry Messenger]

39. Wow! Perfect illustration of that scenario.

Damn, that uni sounds like a fiefdom. How bizarre!

[antigone382]

40. It's a very unusual and frustrating situation, and I'm not sure how it's legal.

They're basically banning people from the town they live in, and saddling them with huge amounts of debt to pay the government if they want to get off the probation train.

Once you're banned, it's really nebulous where you can and can't go, where you can and can't work, and who exactly you talk to to try to get off the banned list (there's a continuing loop of people to whom banned residents are referred when they try to address this). I saw a friend of mine get arrested for buying a milkshake at the coffee shop just down the street from his house, because he was technically banned from campus, and that coffee shop was considered campus property. He can't go to the library or take his kids to the local fourth of July fireworks show, because both are on campus property. Another banned guy I know was working at a coffee shop on the other end of town, technically still on campus but locals are allowed to work there, who got pulled over after a day on the job, and waited four hours while his car was searched, because of a possession first offense from three years ago that took place off campus property. I know a man who, along with a friend of his, were banned from campus for *moving a traffic cone* when they went to get his wife, who was about to undergo brain surgery to remove a tumor, at the end of her shift at the library. What's funny is, I don't know if any of these people would be allowed to protest outside the police station, because it's right in the middle of campus. They have no power to elect anyone to change this system.

I know this is kind of off topic, sorry to derail the thread...it's just been a really infuriating and unjust situation, and seeing so many people act like the justice system isn't an oxymoron is a really getting to me.

[The Magistrate]

30. The Problem With This Line, Sir

Is that about eight percent of the adult population of Georgia is under some form of criminal sentence, whether probation, parole, or serving time. This degree of involvement with the criminal justice system is something well beyond individual foibles; it indicates a systemic flaw operating on individuals with determinative force.

[Truth2Tell]

41. Thank you sir.

I find that a good measure of a person's commitment to human rights in general may frequently be made by gaging their commitment to human rights for the worst people they can think of (or fearfully imagine, as the case may be).

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

46. Spot on. And let me add another problem:

Prison labor was turned into a source of PRIVATE profit. If a rule was in place that prison labor is only for the state's benefit, I suspect things would not be so bad.

[brindis_desala]

129. Read "The New Jim Crow" by Michelle Alexander. She is a former

law clerk for Supreme Court Justice Blackmun. The War on Drugs was implemented by Reagan as a follow-up to Nixon's 'Southern Strategy'. Iran Contra and its consequent promotion of crack cocaine added gas to the fire. The great irony here is that prison labor is being used to drive down white America's wages.

[leftstreet]

141. +1

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

42. So let's say they keep on refusing to work. What to do?

Beat them to death? Starve them to death? Burn them alive? What?

[glen123098]

47. "Many guilty of violent crimes"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States


"Most jail inmates are petty, nonviolent offenders"




What about the non violent majority. Most are there because of our stupid war on drugs. Want to turn your back on them and stereotype them?

[FrancisTreptoe]

51. And many of them are in prison on account of our ridiculous war on drugs.

What happens to them?

I hate this "They are in prison, its their own damn fault" mentality.

Seriously It's life, people screw up and that doesn't give people who run the prisons the right to treat them like dirt.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying we should make prisons luxury resorts, but how about a little goddamn sympathy and forgiveness? The world isn't always black and white you know!

[Canuckistanian]

70. What about the ones that AREN'T guilty of violent crimes?

Is collective punishment the way to go?

[Recursion]

88. Making license plates is one thing

That benefits the state while simultaneously teaching them the machinist's trade; win/win.

Farming them out companies so that they undercut wages is another thing.

[ProudDad]

100. Yeah, smokin' dope should be punished by death, right?

Well, in a lot of cases it IS -- or a life WORSE than death...

So you're getting your fucking wish...

But I guess you're too shallow with your knee-jerk obeisance to the Biggest Lies of USAmerica to ask the question, "Why are most of those folks in there REALLY?"...

[corkhead]

111. I heard that President Obama is negotiating on behalf of the Georgia prison system

so they'll probably get it.

[asdjrocky]

150. It's not even close to 99%.

I can name at least 3 good friends who have gone to prison for something they did not do.

You need to get yourself some real life experience.

[cleanhippie]

13. I agree with this only for those prisoners that are NOT in prison for a violent crime.

If you are convicted of a violent crime, then you took someone elses human rights away, yours are forfeited for the duration of your sentence.

[Occam Bandage]

14. Prisoners have no 13th-amendment rights. It's explicitly in the fucking amendment.

Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

[Truth2Tell]

18. I don't give a fuck about the language of the 13th Amendment.

Just because some unjust dumbass shit is in the US Constitution doesn't make it right. That fine document defined blacks as partial people for years. It's language is not the standard for righteousness.

Let's face it, you are justifying slavery. How disgusting and unsurprising of you.

[Occam Bandage]

19. Its language may not be "the standard for righteousness,"

but it is the standard for Constitutionality. Claiming that prison labor is un-Constitutional is a lie that can be simply and easily refuted.

[Sirveri]

74. While technically true it's more complicated than that due to other legal rulings.

Off the top of my head is Bailey v. Alabama, which eliminates debt peonage, but also established a broad view of the 13th Amendment. At the least it could be argued that any inmate in the system currently for fraud wouldn't be able to be used to perform any form of labor whatsoever simply due to that ruling. There is also the issue of the language of the 13th, which you have ignored. Slavery shall not exist withing the United states (being the basic gist of the statement, simply remove your bolded section and I suspect we'd both agree it said that). That would tend to indicate that slavery must be specifically given as a punishment for a crime on a case by case basis. Not having access to the legal backgrounds for all the inmates at these facilities it is impossible to go further on this tangent. The other issue is the wording behind the Bailey ruling. If a person is convicted of a crime 'owes a debt to society' for their actions, then we would once again trigger Bailey (as it specifically relates to debts), and thus be unable to compel their labor in such a manner. In fact the very reason for Bailey was to prevent the poor black rural underclass of the time from being placed into a form of bondage similar to that of slavery. Even though there were laws specifically designed to perform just that task. Need more hands to harvest the crops, send the constables out to arrest the negroes on the street for vagrancy, and you will get your farm hands from the legal system for free. It's the same thing, except color blind this time.

[Recursion]

89. True, but that doesn't mean it's economically good

Making license plates is one thing. Hell, turning big rocks into small rocks is one thing (military prisons still do that; I'll even concede that it's rehabilitory in some cases). Being rented out to companies at rates much lower than minimum wage is another thing.

[coalition_unwilling]

128. You make me sick and you make me ashamed to be a member of this site - n/t

[Pacifist Patriot]

148. You are incorrect.

You are jumping to the conclusion the 13th amendment automatically places every person convicted of a crime into involuntary servitude simply because of having been convicted of a crime. There is nothing that indicates this is an automatic punishment for being duly convicted of a crime. That is what sentences are for. Incarceration is not synonymous with slavery.

[RT Atlanta]

16. K&R... I live in Atlanta and have not heard about this...

crazy...

[NuclearDem]

48. Am I the only person who actually does have any sympathy for prisoners?

Yes, there are some fucking awful people behind bars, but there are plenty of people in prison who legitimately want to turn their lives around. Even some of the most violent offenders.

And for everyone that says prisoners shed their human rights when they're sent to prison, fucking shame on you. Every human being on Earth has those rights; the right to nutritious meals, education, wages, and decent living conditions. I'm not saying give them all LCD TVs or serve them steak and eggs on Sunday, I'm saying give them something they can live safely in. Give them an environment they can make some real change in; the more people reform themselves in prison and can go on living productive lives in society, the fewer prisons we'll need, and the more productive citizens we'll have.

[antigone382]

56. +1

No, you are not the only one.

[WinkyDink]

57. No, you are not alone. They are paid slave wages for Big Corporations.

[Obamanaut]

83. One wonders why, if so many of those incarcerated wanted to 'turn their

lives around' why there is continues crime amongst the prisoners themselves.

If the ones who wanted that turnaround outnumbered the one who don't, why don't they control it in-house? The sad truth is, the miscreants are the greater in number. People know that, even people here, otherwise there would never be posts about "he'll get what he deserves in open population", or "he'll never survive what they do to 'baby rapers'"

[eShirl]

85. assuming what you say is true, what is your point?

please come right out and say it

[Obamanaut]

87. Refer to response #48. If so many 'inside' wanted to turn their lives

around, and if they outnumbered the ones who don't, they would.

From #48 "...but there are plenty of people in prison who legitimately want to turn their lives around. Even some of the most violent offenders..."

The place is chock full of rapists, murderers, thieves, pedophiles, arsonists, scammers... While they are incarcerated they still perform those things, except maybe the pedophiles, but that's only because of the unavailability of kids.

Even some of unincarcerated (people on the outside of the fences) don't want success. When there is a mention of a 'faith-based' effort at a prison, there is an outcry about separation of church/state, even though that faith-based has been shown to work to some degree. It might only be working inside the prison and changes no one long-term, but it makes that prison calmer and run more smoothly.

And I'm a non-believer, so I don't have a dog in that particular fight.

[NuclearDem]

98. Just because some people in prison continue to commit crimes, doesn't mean everyone in there does

There are plenty of faith-based (and in a lot of cases, secular) reform programs in the prison systems that should be available to those people.

I know they exist because I went through one while I was in. And there were a hell of a lot of inmates who were signing up to be a part of it. You know, those rapists, murderers, thieves, pedos, arsonists, and scammers you say don't want to make themselves better people and repay their debt to society.

[Obamanaut]

134. And just because some law enforcement officers go to extremes, doesn't mean

all of them do - but here they are all jack-booted thugs.

Also here, there have been posts re 'faith based' prisons, and the whole idea was met with derision, with cries of 'separation of church/state violation.'

Sometimes look at a record on a corrections web site, picking inmates at random, and see how many have multiple periods of incarceration for a variety of offenses. Most, certainly not all, do seem to like prison food for some reason and keep returning to get more of it.

[defendandprotect]

120. +1000% --

[brooklynite]

50. Unrec'd

Inmates Use Technology to Organize State Prison Protest - Atlanta Journal-Constitution

4 Ga. Prisons on Lockdown Amid Protest‎ - MyFox Atlanta

Inmates in Georgia Prisons Use Contraband Phones to Coordinate Protest - The New York Times

Four Ga. Prisons Under Lockdown - 13WMAZ

and 259 other links according to a 5 minute Google search

I don't care what your opinions are about the issue of prison conditions, but there's no need to make up stories about "media blackouts"...

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

62. Ooops, I had almost forgotten to REC. Thanks for the heads up.

[Truth2Tell]

65. Point me to a link from a major network please. thanks. nt

[Obamanaut]

90. The Atlanta Journal, linked, is a very large paper. If networks don't

want to pick up a story because of not being newsworthy, it is not a blackout.

http://www.ajc.com/news/inmates-use-technology-to-774862.html

[KansDem]

94. I listened to Amy Goodman on Democracy Now! this a.m.

About the phones they used to organize this. Amy interviewed a woman (name escapes me) who is quite familiar with this protest. She stated the phones the inmates are using were purchased, in some cases, from the guards for as much as $800. She figured the phones were originally $50. It was clear the guards were victimizing the prisoners.

Was this reported by the media, especially those media outlets in Georgia?

[Upton]

96. Yeah, that must be it..

those poor felons are all victims. Just as it wasn't their fault when they committed the crimes leading to their incarceration. And once in prison, their continued sticking and raping of each other is sure to be the fault of someone else. Poor little felons..

Where's the sympathy for the true victims? Those that have had their lives ended or altered irreparably due to the actions of this human trash some of you are defending?

[NuclearDem]

97. I don't have sympathy for people who commit crimes

But I do have sympathy for the people who are trying really hard to put that part of their lives behind them and become better people.

We do have sympathy for the victims--that's why the violent offenders are in prison in the first place. Besides, how many people are in prison down there for drug possession, prostitution, or some nonviolent crimes?

[KansDem]

101. And the guards selling the phones are...committing a crime?

These phones are "contraband." They're not allowed. Or are these guards "good criminals" because they're sticking it to "bad criminals?"

Where do you draw the line at what are and are not acceptable crimes?

[Upton]

107. Violent crimes are NOT acceptable

in any way shape or form. I have absolutely NO sympathy for anyone involved in this strike who has committed such an offense.

And speaking of this strike, from what I've read, not only is it being coordinated by the use of contraband phones (regardless of how they got them, they are still contraband) but it is being run by gang leaders (nice folks)..and it only truly got off the ground when the authorities had the audacity to take their cigarettes away.

Where's the sympathy for the REAL victims?

[Tsiyu]

138. Reality is a fine, fine thing

Education leads to reality.

From the link above:

Violent crime was not responsible for the quadrupling of the incarcerated population in the United States from 1980 to 2003. Violent crime rates had been relatively constant or declining over those decades. The prison population was increased primarily by public policy changes causing more prison sentences and lengthening time served, e.g. through mandatory minimum sentencing, "three strikes" laws, and reductions in the availability of parole or early release. These policies were championed as protecting the public from serious and violent offenders, but instead yielded high rates of confinement for nonviolent offenders. Nearly three quarters of new admissions to state prison were convicted of nonviolent crimes. Only 49 percent of sentenced state inmates were held for violent offenses. Perhaps the single greatest force behind the growth of the prison population has been the national "war on drugs." The number of incarcerated drug offenders has increased twelvefold since 1980. In 2000, 22 percent of those in federal and state prisons were convicted on drug charges.


Some posters hare just live in an alternate universe, I guess, where the TRUTH does not matter.

[Upton]

154. Sure is..

and your response has virtually nothing to do with my post. I'm referring to violent criminals, not a couple of old hippies busted for a small grow operation..Nobody likes the drug war, but even your own link says approximately half of the nation's prison population is made up of violent offenders.

This strike is being held together by "leaders"..and in prison, that means gangs. And if you think they're just all some kind of innocent victims of the war on drugs, then you're the one living in an alternate universe.

Unlike some here, I'm just not interested in coddling criminals.

[NuclearDem]

158. Yeah, since we're in favor of coddling criminals

:eyes:

[mstinamotorcity]

157. Why would they choose Reality...

When republican fables of the American Dream are dancing like sugarplums in their heads:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Pacifist Patriot]

127. Human trash?

I'm suspecting no amount of education could change your perspective when you are ready to throw human beings away. Maybe some day you'll gain some true understanding of who constitutes the bulk of inmates in our country's prisons and jails.

[Throd]

54. Prison, by design, is supposed to really really suck.

[WinkyDink]

59. So much for "rehabilitation." Is "incarceration" a synonym for "slavery"?

These men aren't asking to be set free.

[Throd]

61. Yeah, pretty much.

Locked in a cell. Told what to do 24 hours a day. Chance of having your cell tossed at any moment by the prison staff.

I wholeheartedly believe that prison should afford opportunities for rehabilitation and education.

It should also really really suck.

[lonestarnot]

67. Ask Jan Brewer of AZ. I'm sure she likes the idea.

[Exilednight]

60. That depends on the jail. Some jails actually attempt to

rehabilitate prisoners. I was watching a show about a state prison which has been testing a program in an attempt to reduce the number of repeat defenders. They've reduced their number of repeat offenders by over 80%.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

64. Is there such a thing as excessive suckage?

Or only pansy bleeding heart criminal-loving commie hippies believe there is such a thing?

[upi402]

73. rape, abuse, slavery

it's hard to know what's up when the media lies and denies.

[Canuckistanian]

69. K&R

They should AT LEAST get traction with the "cruel and unusual punishment" part.

It's guaranteed in the Constitution, even for prisoners.

[Pacifist Patriot]

91. As a volunteer jail chaplain....

I'm incredibly disheartened by the number of people here who are perfectly willing to strip someone of his or her basic dignity as a human being because he or she has been incarcerated. Exactly how effective do you think rehabilitation is going to be if someone is dehumanized and enslaved as part of his or her segregation from society?

There are some truly abhorrent people in our jails and prisons, but they are still people.

However, there are far far more people in our jails that for poverty, addiction and mental illness wouldn't be there. Should they be written off as fodder for slavery and abuse?

My heart is with these inmates. I hope their strike is successful.

On a side note: My chaplaincy extends to the COs as well. They are not all power-mad thugs. Their job is difficult, messy and thankless. I would hope a peaceful resolution can be found for all of their sakes.

[ProudDad]

106. Thank you...

for a compassionate, reasoned post...

And for the work you do...

Maybe someday we can grow up and treat our brothers and sister who transgress as we would wish to be treated ourselves...

[NuclearDem]

109. Thank you so much for the work you do

As a former inmate who depended on the chaplaincy...I'm thankful every day for you guys. :hi:

[Pacifist Patriot]

117. I wish I could do more. Unfortunately...

the primary chaplaincy program in my county jail system is dominated by a Christian organization. As humanist clergy my role is limited to visitation with inmates who specifically request UU, humanist or non-theist clergy and teaching life skills classes. I am not allowed to participate in religious education programming because it is all Christian and I cannot sign the statement of faith.

[valerief]

92. Wow, hadn't heard of this. Thanks. nt

[valerief]

93. We all know that our prisons are used for slave labor (when China labor is just too darn expensive).

[tomm2thumbs]

95. the GOP is probably determined to turn prisons INTO factories to compete with China

it serves all their purposes, great and small

the GOP is vile

[ProudDad]

99. You know what's SO ironic...

These are exactly the things we fought for and mostly won (briefly) for prisoners in California when that execrable evil waste of skin ronny ray-gun was "governor"...back in the early 70s...

(and for which we gained the attention of Hoover and CoInTelPro)

But since then this country has slid so far further into darkness that here are these issues again... :puke:

It's insane to treat people worse than dogs, most of whom could be saved, and expect them to "rehabilitate themselves" in such an evil environment within such an evil system...

[Pacifist Patriot]

121. That's a key to the problem right there.

Which is the priority: Punishment or Rehabilitation? Which has the greater benefit to society? I think the answer is obvious, but apparently many do not.

[NuclearDem]

108. Alright, I just don't understand. As a former inmate who was rehabilitated by our prison system

I know how important a good, healthy environment is to restoring the average convict to a productive member of society.

For the record, in general population, yes, there were plenty of people who were in for violent crimes, and people who should stay in for a very long time. But there were plenty of people who were in there for things as simple as writing bad checks and possession of marijuana. In some cases, they were people in there who shouldn't have been in in the first place; one person whose wife lied about him violating a restraining order, another for a DUI with a BAC of .081, and others for just being in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong people.

And a lot of those people spent their days...playing chess. Reading books. Watching TV. Playing cards. Not shanking their fellow inmates. Not raping others.

After a week, I transferred to one of the prison faith-based rehabilitation programs; and I was lucky. A lot of people apply for it, but not a lot get it. That program was packed; there were a lot of people in there who had committed violent crimes in the past, but after they'd spent a while in prison and had time to think about what they'd done, their only goal at that point was to make themselves better--they wanted to learn a trade, learn how to be a productive member of society, go through counseling to be better fathers, and just better themselves.

One of the other inmates I got close to in that program was doing time 4 years for armed robbery and assault; before he was sent to prison, he was an awful person. He mistreated his wife and his kids, couldn't hold a job, and was involved with some criminal elements in the city. I met him just as he was starting his third year...and he said thanks to the prison's rehab programs, the support of fellow inmates who were all working to get better, and encouragement from good friends on the outside, he was truly repentant for what he'd done. According to the other people in the program, he used to cry at night thinking of all the people he'd hurt...and he made it his goal in life to earn society's forgiveness and be a better person.

That man took me in, mentored me during my time, and helped me adjust, and realize my problems and what I needed to do to fix them. He and all the other people in that program were living proof that prisoners, even the violent ones, can have a change of heart and want to be better.

So shame on all of the DUers who write them all off as incurable savages who deserve their human rights taken away because they're behind bars. Nothing but fucking shame. One of the things those convicts, the ones in the program, have over all of the people on the outside who want them treated like slaves and animals is that they learned this: forgiveness is a powerful thing, and a healing tool that can help both the victim and the criminal become better people.

[blueamy66]

139. +1

awesome post

[Pacifist Patriot]

159. I wish I could rec a response.

[The Midway Rebel]

110. Our future generations will look back at our PIC and shake their heads,

The same way we now look back at chattel slavery and shake our heads. The law & order types in this thread disgust me. I hope karma sends them or one of their loved ones to jail so that they can get a taste of the evil that they cheer for.

[Pacifist Patriot]

119. I do wonder how much of the venom comes from ignorance.

If people really understood the nature of jail and prison they would probably be shocked. However awful you can describe it, reality is much worse.

[defendandprotect]

113. We've got endless URGENT issues to work on -- this is certainly one of them...!!!

If we don't do something about this growing prison industrial complex

more and more of us will be victims of the system --

Think it's one in every 34 Americans now?

[davidthegnome]

114. Criminals or not

they are still human. They deserve to be treated with some amount of respect. The corporate executives who have seen profits as a result seem to me to be far greater criminals than many of those who have been convicted of drug related crimes. No one is arguing that these prisoners should be given everything for free. Is it too much to ask, however, that they get paid for their work? I don't think so. I don't think that access to medical care or edible food is a great deal to ask, not even for criminals. Vocation and self improvement opportunities are necessary and beneficial to society as a whole (provided they are run properly).

That said... there are as another poster pointed out - things in that list which those of us not in prison have no access to. That does not, however, indicate that prisoners should not also be paid a living wage - as should everyone else. It is unchecked greed that has brought us here and I for one am glad that they are struggling for the right to be treated as human beings.

I am not sympathetic towards violent criminals or sex offenders. Even they, however, should not be forced to work for nothing. No one should, I don't care what they've done.

[Uncle Joe]

130. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Truth2Tell.

[TBF]

143. Prison Labor is big business when you are the country with the most prisoners per capita -

"The United States has the highest prison population rate in the world, 756 per 100,000 of the national population"

cite: http://www.kcl.ac.uk/depsta/law/research/icps/downloads/wppl-8th_41.pdf

[Cali_Democrat]

146. USA! USA! USA!!

The terrorists hate us for our freedumz!

[mstinamotorcity]

145. It seems to me asking for some human decency

is not a bad thing to do. There are countless brothers and sisters of all ethnic backgrounds in America's Prisons. This is one of America's most lucrative untold stories. Yes there are people in our Prisons for violent and non-violent offenses. As well as the innocent. The innocent or the guilty being held for forced labor is nothing new http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convict_lease to many of us who know anything about African American History. And they have been building Prisons for profit for a long time now http://www.correctionsproject.com/corrections/pris_priv.htm or how about Arizona Governor Jan Brewer who made a law up to expand the prison system in Arizona her and her cronies at CCA http://mediafilter.org/MFF/Prison.html. To hear some of the people and their comments just seem plain uneducated to me. There has been an unjust system in place for hundreds of years and most people don't even recognize it. People have become so comfortable with Prisons that its culture has come to the streets to glorify its existence. In music,movies,and style of clothing to tattoo's signifying allegiance. And somebody thinks this shit is working. My hats off to the Prisoners in Georgia. You are not Alone!!!!!! And though there are some who belong incarcerated, there are those who belong!!!!!

[asdjrocky]

149. Solidarity.

It could be you, or your loved ones next.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFIUrQF9GfY

[aikoaiko]

151. Work is "assigned" to to prisoners, but what happens if a prisoner refuses?

Is there punishment?

[littlewolf]

161. depending on the state ...

in NC ... you are given "good time"
which reduces your time in prison ...
if you do not work ... you do not get
"good time" ...
also if you refuse to work you can
be placed in S.H.U. (segregated housing unit)
where you are locked in your cell for 23 hours aday..
45 mins of exercise and 15 min shower ...
loss of phone calls and contact visits
(1 visit per month thru glass instead of weekly visits sitting
at a table with your family.)
restriction of canteen (you can only buy Hygiene items
and stamps ...
there are other stuff that I can't remember ...

[laughingliberal]

162. Solidarity. nt

[littlewolf]

163. can't speak for GA .. but NC ...

inmates are paid for work ...
bakers/cooks get 1.00 per day ..
everyone else gets .40 per day ...
Road squad gets .70 per day ...
grounds and Maint. gets .70 per day ...
now there are jobs .. work release .. where you are housed in the prison
but go to a regular job .... and get paid a regular wage ...


they also get "good time" which reduces their time in prison ...

they get health care including dental and vision ...
they pay 5.00 for non emergency sick call
10.00 if they declare an emergency that is not an emergency.. this is determined by the nurses not correctional staff ...
health maintenance is free ...

decent living conditions - it depends on your custody ...
close custody .. 1 person to a cell ...
Medium custody 1 person to a cell
Minimum custody 60 people to a "open bay" dorm ...
(minimum is non violent custody .. drugs, bad checks etc ...) 5 years or less ...
meals are typical institutional food ... it is not mama's ... but it beats starving ...
there are vocational training ... electrical , HVAC, carpentry and food service ...
visits are on weekends ...
but I don't know what GA is doing ...

not sure what you mean by prison labor ...
our guys do litter pick up mostly ....