Why all the nationwide Vick worship?

[BeachBaby]

I live in Philly metro - so, for the longest time, I thought I was being exposed to the madness, due to my location. (And when I say "madness", I mean that EVERY Philly sports radio station sings his praises - day in, day out. It doesn't matter what else goes on in the Philly sports world. It's all Vick, all the time.)

However, I just found out that his jersey is the highest-selling jersey in the entire NFL. It appears that Michael Vick has become some twisted American version of the prodigal son.

I had been an Eagles fan since the Jaworski days. The day they signed Vick, was the day I walked away from the club. He's a convicted killer. Why does this go ignored?

[flvegan]

1. Mmm...got a great seat here.

:popcorn:

[Missy Vixen]

4. Please pass the popcorn

I don't want to miss this one. Did I mention I agree with the OP?

:popcorn:

[FreakinDJ]

9. Milk Duds please

did I mention I think Vic paid his debt

[CreekDog]

20. is the debt paid while still on probation?

:rofl:

[Kalyke]

90. He brought back all those dogs?

He restored the trust to those who lived?


WOW... didn't realize that.


:eyes:

I can't believe there are people on this board who believe this tripe.

[FreakinDJ]

110. Love the "Self-Rightous Indignation" How much Chinese made crap you buy for Christmas

Because that cheap Chinese made crap you bought has brought on, AND FINANCED enough human pain and suffering to make Vick's past crimes pale in comparison.

May he who is without sin cast the first stone

[TexasObserver]

123. Interesting comparison.

[flvegan]

103. You don't know what "debt" is.

[TexasObserver]

125. Yes, he's paid the debt society assessed.

Assuming he properly serves out his probation, that is.

But I agree with you.

Once he's paroled, we should judge him on what he does now.

[BeachBaby]

10. Want a Yuengling to wash it down?

[derby378]

2. Are there really that many Vick fans on DU?

Honestly, I haven't noticed.

[11 Bravo]

14. If you state that he has served his time and now has the right to pursue his career ...

there are those on DU who reflexively refer to you as a "fan" a "worshiper" and similar terms.
In the interest of full disclosure, I didn't like him at Virginia Tech, I didn't like him in Atlanta, I don't like him in Philly, and I despise the fucking Eagles. However, I think Michael Vick deserves the right to play in the NFL, and I think he has a shot at being the league MVP. (That alone should be enough to have me consigned to the ranks of the "worshipers".)

[notesdev]

33. He's got the right to do what he likes

and the rest of us have the right to regard him as a dog-torturing slimeball

and also that the NFL soiled itself disgracefully by permitting him to return

[niceypoo]

79. Im a fan

Of his football playing.

[TexasObserver]

122. You said it well, and accurately.

I don't give a damn about Vick one way or the other, but I care about the notion that a guy is convicted, serves time, and gets out. I judge him by what he does now, not what he did before.

This unbridled hatred of the man is disturbing.

[CreekDog]

49. watch this thread

i'm sure you'll see plenty.

[TexasObserver]

126. No, there are mainly people who believe he's done his time.

I'm not a fan of Vick. I don't even follow the NFL.

He was convicted, sentenced, and serve his time. He's got to walk the line now, and that's all I expect of him.

[xchrom]

3. Cause a guy with a fat paycheck needs all the help he can get. Nt

[Earth_First]

5. I don't see or hear a whole lot of Vick fluffing going on...

:shrug:

[TexasObserver]

127. There isn't. Mostly people who acknowledge he served his time.

And who are willing to let him have a second chance.

I've never seen or heard anyone express approval of his treatment of dogs.

[cali]

6. I don't get it. I think what he did was nigh on unforgivable.

I hope he doesn't get the MVP.

[BeachBaby]

7. Delete.

[Cali_Democrat]

8. Vick deserved a second chance and got one. He served his time and I forgive him.

He's also exciting as hell to watch!

[LanternWaste]

12. Forgiveness comes from the victim of the offense

Forgiveness comes from the victim of the offense, not from the fans of the aggressor. :shrug:

[Cali_Democrat]

13. What do you mean by fan?

I'm a chargers fan.

[11 Bravo]

16. Sorry, anything other than calling for his expulsion from the NFL makes you not only a fan ...

but an idolizer.

[CreekDog]

36. Why do you insist on saying Vick "served his time"

he's on probation.

are you unaware of what "serving one's time" means or unaware of Vick's sentence?

[Cali_Democrat]

56. I meant his jail time obviously he couldn't play football when he was in jail.

While he's on probation he's allowed to play football and I don't have a problem with it.

[niceypoo]

80. Prison time

Obviously

We have to hate him because he is still on probation? Sorry, I dont hate like that.

[KurtNYC]

112. not the probation, this...

the hanging of dogs from a nylon cord nailed to a tree and drowning others in a five gallon bucket of water.

Twice Vick put family pets into the fighting ring with pit bulls because he “thought it was funny to watch the pit bulls. . . injure or kill the other dogs.” Vick also admitted watching his friends hang, shoot and electrocute pit bulls.

http://premiumblend.net/2008/11/25/michael-vicks-bad-newz-kennels-%E2%80%94-a-heartless-enthusiast-of-barbaric-pit-bull-fights/

His fame encourages others. As does our short memory.

[quiller4]

83. He is not on probation. He is on parole. He served his prison sentence

less good time, was released and is not on parole.

I spent a good portion of my working life helping ex-offenders return to the community and try to rebuild their lives. I don't understand why so many liberals refuse to give Vick, or any ex-offender for that matter, a second chance. I am delighted that he is playing so well this year. I am also pleased that he more than fulfilled his community service hours requirement and continues to work with at risk kids. I am a Seahawks fan but I've been cheering the Eagles this year.

[Kalyke]

91. Let the Pits have at 'em... and see.

That's what that means.

Are you so insane that you don't know what the poster meant???

[Cali_Democrat]

132. I'm insane?

:shrug:

[Egnever]

31. If thats the case then so should condemnation

You have no sklin in the game so why in the world do you care?

[TZ]

21. Some creatures can't forgive him

When his victims are STILL suffering and will be for years....
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/nov/16/sports/la-sp-plaschke-20101117

[Name removed]

92. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CreekDog]

98. thank you

for those who are lucky enough to cheer, there are plenty who are not able because of what he did to them.

[shireen]

100. +1

i'll forgive an abuser the day when all the damage that was inflicted can be undone.
In other words, never.

[CreekDog]

22. i thought serving one's time includes doing probation

:hi:

[cherokeeprogressive]

40. You're the first person I've ever heard make that claim. n/t

[CreekDog]

52. then you aren't very informed

Probation is a sentence which may be imposed by a criminal court, in lieu of incarceration. A criminal who is "on probation" could be considered as convicted of a crime, but has served only part of the sentence in prison, or has not served time at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probation


if the legal system is all done with him, then why he is still on probation, still required to do things by them, still required to refrain from things by them --if he is really all "paid up" in terms of his debt to society then how does the system have a hold on him now...a hold they won't have on him once his probation is through?

[cherokeeprogressive]

63. Read your first paragraph again.

It says probation is imposed lieu of incarceration, and ends with "A criminal who is on probation... has not served time at all". I take that to mean "serving time" equals incarceration and not probation.

Am I wrong on that?

[cherokeeprogressive]

42. Here's something for you...

http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/serve+time

[Lucian]

45. He got a slap on the wrist.

If either of us did what he did, we'd be in prison for years.

There's no forgiveness in that, as far as I'm concerned.

[pitohui]

if either of us did what he did, we'd never even be arrested

i don't personally know anyone, ever, who got arrested for animal fighting

not anyone ever

some of the guys i knew were warned and in turn warned vick

he really didn't understand that as a powerful black hero he was going to be made an example of...

joe average is not in prison for fighting some dogs or chickens, he is just told to knock it off and retire

[Name removed]

93. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lucian]

99. Just because you don't know anyone who hasn't been arrested for it...

doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

[TexasObserver]

120. This is true.

[emilyg]

74. I'm ith you. So glad my

Falcons didn't take him back.

[Dappleganger]

50. The only reason you forgive him is because he's a football star.

[TexasObserver]

129. I believe he can be given a 2nd chance without being "forgiven."

In my view, forgiveness is not required of anyone.

He does deserve a second chance, as do all who have served their time and been discharged.

[Skink]

11. all Vicks gotta do now is pledge that tax break to some charity.

If Obama could pass like that, Oh man.

[Mojambo]

15. He's single handedly winning a shit-ton of Fantasy leagues

And America LOVES its Fantasy Football.

[TZ]

17. Because he wins

Winning in sports gets alot of things overlooked...even battery and domestic abuse or worse. There are still people who think OJ Simpson is to be admired..:puke:

There are an awful lot of NFL players who have been associated with the deaths of people too, and its over looked... (Ray Lewis,Dante Stallworth I'm looking at you)
Same way people in politics will overlook some terrible flaws in people of their political swing because they are good at what they do (there are still some Democrats who think John Edwards didn't get treated fairly....:WTF:

[Kalyke]

94. OK... being a Tennessean, I'm gonna say something here.

Donte Stallworth didn't purposely harbor and torture his victim. Was he wrong? Hell yes! Should he have gotten more time? Probably.

The difference is that he didn't "purchase" Mario Reyes with the sole purpose of breaking him.

[hlthe2b]

18. Hell, many Americans worship Palin.... Assholes are in fashion...

(apparently....:mad:)

[apocalypsehow]

19. Because he performs charity circumcisions in his free time?

:shrug:



:popcorn:

[CreekDog]

23. it doesn't matter what anybody thinks

it matters what these innocent creatures feel or felt (many of them were brutally killed by or because of Vick)

but if folks here think they can forgive while these dogs suffer long term injuries thanks to Vick --more power to them. I assume they forgive other felons for the things they've done to other people too.



http://www.bestfriends.org/vickdogs/

[MGB67]

24. I am not surprised.

Certainly not a friend of vicks here. In fact, if football ownership is that uncaring, if football fans are that heartless and if the football media are such pantiless whores.... then to hell with football.

On 16 December, my wife and I lost our wonderful partner and friend Cody. He was a Border Collie 18 years of age and his warrior's heart finally stopped while he was in our arms. The loss is shattering. He was such an integral part of our family, home and life that there is nothing that I do that is the same.

In this holiday season I wish for michael vick ALL the pain and suffering that he inflicted on those puppies.

Screw him.....may he rot in hell.

[Kalyke]

95. It's so hard. Bless you.

My wonderful companion, a Cocker Spaniel named Trooper, was very sick while I was pregnant with my second child. My little girl had some complications and I had a schedule C-section. We got up that morning and Trooper didn't get up to eat. I knew he wasn't going to last that weekend.

My baby dog waited until I COULD NOT do anything about it to start bleeding through his mouth lesions. My hubster came home to let him and the other dogs out after our little girl was born and found him nearly dead. He called me and asked if he could take him to have him euthanized. I agreed.

My hub took him to the emergency vet and they put him down for free - my hub was crying so hard. He took him home, shoveled a grave and buried my beloved dog while I was recovering - all on the day his daughter was born.

I had been at home for three weeks before the baby's birth and knew, so I got to say many goodbyes. I knew.

The pain of losing my buddy still makes me cry.

[petronius]

25. I think I'd want to know where those jersies are being bought before concluding it's nationwide

I suspect most team gear is mostly bought locally, and perhaps PA fans are just buying more at the moment since Vick is resurgent...

[TZ]

28. Its the NFL top selling jersey

And since there's 32 teams, I think its pretty easy conclusion to draw that this is a NATIONAL thing. If it was merely the top selling PHilly jersey that would be one thing, but its topping ALL sales.
Oh and he's the top vote getter for the Pro Bowl. Thats pretty much an indicator its a national thing

[KurtNYC]

51. not on this list

http://sportsbiz.biz/2010/09/21/top-25-best-selling-nfl-jerseys/

1. Tim Tebow, Denver Broncos
2. Drew Brees, New Orleans Saints
3. Donovan McNabb, Washington Redskins
4. Brett Favre, Minnesota Vikings
5. Peyton Manning, Indianapolis colts
etc.

Vick is not even on it; 25 deep.

[BeachBaby]

73. Here's the list that was read on the radio....

http://blogs.forbes.com/kurtbadenhausen/2010/12/20/michael-vick-jerseys-flying-off-shelves/?boxes=businesschannelsections

[CreekDog]

96. April 1st through September 15th?

a little out of date, wouldn't you say?

[TZ]

29. Its the NFL top selling jersey

And since there's 32 teams, I think its pretty easy conclusion to draw that this is a NATIONAL thing. If it was merely the top selling PHilly jersey that would be one thing, but its topping ALL sales.
Oh and he's the top vote getter for the Pro Bowl. Thats pretty much an indicator its a national thing

[petronius]

32. That doesn't really follow: if 10 people in 31 cities buy a local QBs jersey, and 11 people

in Philly buy a Vick jersey, doesn't that make Vick's jersey the NFL top seller?

[TZ]

35. You have 32 teams

And there are 300 million people in the country. Say 150 million are NFL fans. How many people live in Philadelphia...5 million? Not NEARLY enough in one city alone to boost sales of one shirt atop all thirty two teams, which by the way most of them do good sales at christmas time.
NFL top sellers are always jerseys of nationally liked and known players.
Also as I said, he's the top NFL pro bowl voter. By far. And fans can only vote so many times. Why is it so hard to conclude what is fairly obvious? Vick is popular with sports fans all over the country.

[BeachBaby]

30. Obviously, I don't have a tally on where they're being bought, BUT....

people from all over the country have been calling in to the one station. They go on and on about how Vick was their favorite QB when he was a Falcon - and how THRILLED they are to see that he's back, and "better than ever".

[CreekDog]

54. The nationwide "meme" is that Vick is a story of redemption

People are just remarkably impressed that he can somehow play football without concurrent abuse of dogs.

It's fascinating.

[northernlights]

26. apparently he can throw, kick and spike balls almost as well as he throws, kicks and spikes dogs

And to some people, his ability to play some stupid game absolves him of all liability, criminality, visciousness and/or sociopathy. He "paid his dues to society" (never mind the suffering he inflicted on the defenseless and what atonement he's made there), and in their little worlds that's all there is to it. His victims can just get over it. Oh, and he reeeeeelly loves dogs, so should be allowed to have one in his household because it's too hard to explain to his children why they can't get a dog. And if (or when) he beats the shit out of that dog, then Best Friends can just come along and fix it and all with be right with the world again. :eyes:

As long as they get their game fix, that's really all that matters in the world. It's sad, really. A horrible, not to mention frightening, statement about many people's morality, ethics, principles and priorities. Or lack thereof.

[KansDem]

43. I couldn't agree more...

As long as they get their game fix, that's really all that matters in the world. It's sad, really.

I never understood the hero-worship of celebrity athletes or the desire to make pro-athletes into "role models." And this is from some guy who played 11 straight years of organized sports--from baseball to football to track/cross country to handball...

Maybe I had my "fix"--for life!

[AsahinaKimi]

27. Well

Though Vick's vaporub might be a good product, I don't think worship ever entered my mind..

:hide:

[no limit]

34. So you are under the idea that nobody deserves a second chance ever?

How long do you think he should have been locked up for?

[CreekDog]

47. the OP was questioning the adulation, not the second chance

and if he's so deserving, why hasn't Vick inquired and supported the care of his surviving dogs?

no cameras or journalists there? you tell me.

[malaise]

37. You know why

Because he's a footballer who is playing great football - and people love a story about redemption.
This is a great comeback. Did you see what he did on Sunday - seriously!!

[no limit]

39. Yeah, I lost my fantasy football play off game because of him

what an asshole!

[CreekDog]

46. You support Pete Rose's induction into the Baseball Hall of Fame, correct?

:shrug:

[Kalyke]

101. Actually, gambling doesn't bother me as much as making

an innocent suffer.

And, I don't gamble.

:shrug:

If that make me a hypocrite, so be it,

[CreekDog]

124. yeah me too

basically.

[CreekDog]

55. He was a terrific quarterback while he was abusing dogs

so I'm supposed to be impressed that he can play well without abusing them?

I fail to see the miracle.

[Kalyke]

97. No, I didn't see what he did. His visage is not allowed in my house.

[beam me up scottie]

38. How many people know the full extent of his involvement?

Some crimes are infinitely worse than others.

[roody]

41. Speciesism?

[BOG PERSON]

71. don't be naive

you really think if a dog had the chance, it wouldnt make humans fight each other, in front of other dogs, for the purpose of gambling?

[roody]

134. My dog wouldn't. Would yours?

[Lucian]

44. Fuck Vick.

I want all the dogs he abused to abuse him for a day straight, in a small cage with no escape. Then maybe I'll forgive his sorry ass for what he did.

[CreekDog]

48. the sad thing is that he's probably safer with them than they are with him

:shrug:

[beam me up scottie]

62. Exactly!

Pit bulls aren't the monsters in this story.

[Creative]

53. He has redeemed himself.

You do believe in second chances, don't you?

[BeachBaby]

58. Oh, I don't know.

Should a Catholic priest who was removed from the parish after molesting altar boys, be allowed to return at some point?

I don't think so.

[Creative]

65. Vick is not asking to be allowed to return to dog fighting.

Geez...

[CreekDog]

67. he is asking to have a dog

should a convicted priest be able to adopt a child?

[cherokeeprogressive]

70. Who did he ASK if he could have a dog? I must have missed that. n/t

[CreekDog]

87. he was bring interviewed and said after his probation he might want a dog

[Creative]

108. The OP was bemoaning the fact that Vick has become so popular that "his jersey

is the highest-selling jersey in the entire NFL."

Evidently, some people do not believe in second chances.

[toastbutter]

72. That's a bogus analogy

The priest abused his office and took advantage of it. Michael Vick was not abusing dogs on the gridiron. Also, allowing a praish priest to return would allow him further access to commit more of a similar crime. Allowing Vick to play football does not. If anything, it does the opposite, since as a highly watched public figure, he's under greater scrutiny.

[CreekDog]

68. you mean he stopped killing dogs? do you get medals for that?

Oscar Schindler redeemed himself some would say.

Vick was a good quarterback before and he's a good quarterback now, the only thing that's changed is that he's not killing dogs anymore.

When did overcoming that count for "redemption"?

[BeachBaby]

69. +1.

[Creative]

115. Okay, I'll put you down as one of those who does not believe that people deserve a second chance.

[CreekDog]

116. second chance? absolutely he does...it's adulation i'm not on board with at this point

especially when he has not done anything extraordinarily humanitarian. in fact, his history is RECENT and rotten.

adulation at this point is hasty.

[pitohui]

57. what's this "convicted killer" meme? he was convicted of animal cruelty, dogfighting etc

if he was convicted of killing anyone please post the link, a lot of us would like to know

as far as i'm concerned, vick is a piece of crap, but america loves a comeback story and vick is trying to turn his life around so good for him

a lot of angry people in new orleans, after vick got several votes in the AP poll for sportsman of the year, were repeating this "convicted killer" meme but no one has mentioned who he was convicted of killing -- no worries, brees still won but folks were apparently angry that vicks was even in the running...

look, there's no doubt about it, the best quarterback in the NFL pound for pound and having a wonderful comeback story that inspires us all is drew brees

but i can love and admire brees w.out making up shit about vick

as far as i know vick killed some dogs, and your own veterinarian does that...every.single.day.

nobody worships vick but if a man can't change and grow we should not have prisons, we should just execute him the first time he fucks up...is that the world you want?

[flvegan]

60. (double facepalm)

[CreekDog]

61. wow

"if he was convicted of killing anyone please post the link"

"as far as i know vick killed some dogs" "and your own veterinarian does that...every.single.day."


i'm pretty sure it's pointless to bother arguing. we share none of the same values with regard to respecting life.

[beam me up scottie]

64. "as far as i know vick killed some dogs"

If you can actually compare what Vick did to those animals (not just dogs, btw) to what a veterinarian does, then imnsho, you don't know much.

[tblue37]

109. Killing is one thing. Torture is quite another. nt

[TexasObserver]

121. Well said.

[WiffenPoof]

59. Well...His Popularity At The Moment...

...is largely due to his performance on the football field. He is having a year that most quarterbacks dream about.

-PLA

[CreekDog]

66. and that he is doing it while not killing and maiming dogs --a feat of character unseen since

well i don't know actually since i can't think of a quarterback who was able to be a quarterback after kicking the habit of dog killing.

[MGB67]

75. Lets play michael vick

.....I will return to the watching of football the vick way. All players are naked and they have knives. There are no other rules.

I can live without it.

Can they?

Fuck vick!

[TexasObserver]

76. Why all the Vick obsession?

I don't follow pro football. Correction. I don't follow any football. I don't know and don't care who he plays for, what position he plays, or if he's any good at it.

He was convicted and served his time. On my list of public personages to hate, he's not there.

[MGB67]

78. Have you ever had a dog? NT

.

[MGB67]

81. Fuck it

Let's forgive hitler too.

I give up.

[TexasObserver]

86. You're really going to invoke Hitler?

Who said anything about forgiving Vick?

Forgiveness is not a factor. He did his time.

We judge him on whether he stays on a new path, or repeats his crimes.

Unless he's addicted to being mean to dogs, he shouldn't repeat.

[TexasObserver]

85. Yes. I've also known humans.

Did you know there are humans who have killed other humans, and we still let them out of prison and allow them to live among us?

People sometimes grow up with poor values. They have to learn as an adult that some practice they thought was OK really isn't. You see Vick as a bogey man who has forever earned your hatred. I don't. I see him as a reformed criminal who may or may not deserve a second chance, but he's got it, and until he blows it, that's fine by me.

I judge him by what he does now, and you judge him for what he did before he was convicted.

[MGB67]

104. Perhaps I should have said....

have you ever LOVED a dog?

I am now out of this conversation. I can not understand why anyone would defend this piece of shit even if he threw ten touchdowns a game.

Fuck him!

[Name removed]

114. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

117. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[KurtNYC]

111. this blurb and graphic pic pretty much explain it all

Twice Vick put family pets into the fighting ring with pit bulls because he “thought it was funny to watch the pit bulls. . . injure or kill the other dogs.” Vick also admitted watching his friends hang, shoot and electrocute pit bulls.

Warning picture is very graphic:
http://premiumblend.net/2008/11/25/michael-vicks-bad-newz-kennels-%E2%80%94-a-heartless-enthusiast-of-barbaric-pit-bull-fights/

[moondust]

77. A lot of people want to make money off him.

It's always about the money.

[rucky]

82. Personality aside, he's having a phenomenal season.

That and from what I've seen, Philly sports fans are pretty fanatical.

[democracy1st]

84. Leave Michael Vick ALONE!

[Lugnut]

88. It boggles my mind.

Apparently there are a lot of animal haters who think he's wonderful. This animal lover thinks he's a POS.

[Kalyke]

89. It's contrived.

P.R. machine.

Trust me - no one I know gives two shits about the man AND... I work in P.R. and marketing, so I knew the signs.

His jersey is probably inflated in much the same way Scaife buys up rightwinger books.

[Kalyke]

102. Time for reality. This is what the sick fucker did!

Geezus fucking Chre-ist... what don't you people understand????

[flvegan]

105. He actually did worse.

I won't link to it, but Michael Vick is a villain. An absolute. Worthless often has no support. But that's him. He's worthless. That's the best he can get is "worthless"

[Kalyke]

106. I've seen those, too.

The crime scene photos? I buckled.

You rescue animals, too, don't you? I seem to remember that.

:hugs:

[flvegan]

107. Yes, I do.

[Stevenmarc]

113. "Why all the nationwide Vick worship?" Really simple, a very busy PR machine.

Vigorously scrubbing the shit off of him.

[rasputin1952]

118. As a quarterback, he's ok...

as a human being...he's got a long way to go.

[TexasObserver]

119. The vicious hatred of Vick is more troubling than the hero worship.

He's a human being, and as such, most humans value his life more than that of dogs.

Those who hate Vick are actually a fairly small group, as is apparent by his acceptance nationwide by tens of millions. He's not admired for his terrible treatment of dogs, but he's not considered inhuman by most, either.

Some folks treasure retribution over rehabilitation, and that's a factor, too.

[MrScorpio]

128. He's winning...

Winning is America's Holy Grail.

[sofa king]

130. Because he's playing football at a Jordan-like level.

I know that for many of you, it's not easy to separate his inhumane private life from his football career. But you won't be able to fully understand why he's receiving such adoration until you can.

Once we can look at nothing else but Mike Vick's play on the field, we can see he is doing one of those things that happen once every 50 years or so. He is playing at a level so far above that of his professional peers that he stands out even to casual sports fans. He has the ability to win games almost on his own.

Just as basketball teams had to completely change the way they played to deal with unique physical geniuses like Michael Jordan and Shaquile O'Neal, and golfers had to change their practice and physical fitness regimens to compete with Tiger Woods, and baseball teams had to deal with ace players like Ted Williams and Willie Mays, so too do football teams have to change their strategies to deal with Mike Vick.

Football does not easily lend itself to this sort of phenomenon. Players will tell you that the tallest nail gets hammered down first every time, in every game. Fair or not, a common strategy against standout players is to repeatedly hit them so hard that they are either slowed down or unable to continue to play. But Mike Vick has even overcome crushing injury this year, and on recovery resumed his MVP-level play, possibly even improving on it.

In the past, other physical geniuses have demonstrated serious character flaws, including racism, alcoholism, drug abuse, womanizing, weapons violations, gambling addiction, narcissism, sociopathy, and willingness to commit horrifying murder. But for those of us who can compartmentalize this sort of off the field behavior from performance on the field, we can see that those people were among the very greatest in the histories of their respective sports, and in fact those sports cannot be properly understood without knowing about the contributions of those uniquely able--but sometimes reprobate--individuals.

Fans can love Mike Vick's play, without loving his personality or the things he has done in his personal life. Some go too far, to be sure, and try to love all of him, which is just as sure to lead to a distorted perspective as is trying to hate all of him. People are simply too complex for that.

[TexasObserver]

131. Very smart analysis of the situation.

[sofa king]

133. Thank you, TxO.

It occurs to me that among the many martial traits that American football has is the fact that a great many of the game's standouts are often eccentric and sometimes possessing of distasteful personal habits and behaviors.

Professionals in both fields are rewarded and selected for ruthless competition and sometimes irrational overconfidence on the field, to the exclusion of other traits that would select them straight out of many other professions. Both have an unusually high tolerance--or incidence, even if there is not tolerance--for outlet behavior that sometimes delves deep into criminal territory. There are a great many of America's standouts in military history who were great leaders but who were also absolute train wrecks personally (McClellan, Grant, Jackson, MacArthur, several Pattons, Forrest, and so on).


Edit: Come to think of it, politics is similar, and in fact attracts a great many former professionals from both the military and sports fields, football as much as any other sport I'd be willing to bet.

2nd Edit: I notice that we concur in particular about the problematic all-or-none approach to viewing our "heroes." Taking that approach either way blinds one to the more interesting subtleties that make people what they are.