My neighbor shot my other neighbors dog 3 times today, killed it - and it was perfectly legal

[moobu2]

After the first shot, I ran outside to see what was going on, and neighbor #1 had a pistol and had shot neighbor #2's dog once in the back. I noticed the dog was bleeding and running around the yard while neighbor #1 was aiming his gun again. I asked him why he was shooting the dog since the dog was in it's own yard and nothing looked out of place and he said the guy (neighbor #2) had asked him to shoot the dog for him, but at that time, no one was home. So, I told neighbor #1 that I was calling the police. He shot the dog again right in front of me and blew half the dogs face off and the poor dog was still trying to hide behind some bushes looking at me....it was awful, its lips hanging off, face ripped out and scared shitless. neighbor #1 went back in his house and came back with a some sort of rifle and shot the dog again finally killing it.

When the police arrived, I explained the situation and thought there would be some sort of animal cruelty violation, but the police informed me that since neighbor #1 did have permission, what he did was perfectly legal. The dog was a sweet sweet playful submissive dog with no aggression that I ever saw whatsoever. I petted it over its fence all the time. damn I'm sick about it.

[lonestarnot]

1. Police? Sounds like inside a city limits to me.

[NNN0LHI]

58. OP never said it was within city limits so I wouldn't assume that it was

Around here if that had been within the city limits I know for sure that good ole boy who shot the dog would have been cuffed and stuffed within minutes of the police arriving. Permission from the owner would have been irrelevant to the situation.

Don

[juajen]

2. OMG, have people gone crazy? This is horrible. My heart bleeds for that sweet dog. NT

[Brickbat]

3. I'm sorry you had to see that. Hateful that the neighbor didn't kill it with one shot. IIRC, it's

legal to shoot a dog in some circumstances in some states, but it's not legal to make them suffer. It needs to be one shot to the head.

[Bryn]

4. Report to ASPCA

It can't be legal. That cop had to be wrong ...

[moobu2]

16. Well, I called back and talked to the person in charge over the police officer

and he told me the guy was within his rights. I also called County Animal Services and talked to someone in charge who said the same thing... I was stunned, still am.

[LisaL]

22. Did you talk to the owner of the dog?

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pitohui]

35. you think the whole story is invented?

starting to get that feeling myself,,,but i just re read the OP and there is nothing there abt being in a city or city limits

you think people in the country don't have neighbors?

IF the story is true, it has a very rural feel to me

[lonestarnot]

44. OP said "police." Sounds city to me. Police could just be another name for sheriff.

:shrug:

[LisaL]

47. OP has already stated that he or she lives just outside the city limits.

[lonestarnot]

53. Then this should apply #10

http://www.flotte2.com/Alabama/Docs/MobileTensawMap2009

IT SHALL BE UNLAWFUL:
1. To hunt, trap, use dogs, possess firearms, ammunition, traps, or bow and arrow, except bow fishing equipment from Mar. 1-Aug. 31, without a valid permit. A permit is valid only during
scheduled management and refuge area seasons during legal hunting hours and only with weapons and ammunition permitted for hunting the wildlife listed on permit.
2. To use dogs for stalk hunting of deer or for turkey hunting.
3. To use dogs for hunting, training, or any purpose from March 1 to the opening of the following fall gun season.
4. For any person under 16 years of age to hunt on the management area unless accompanied by a licensed hunter at all times.
5. For any person to carry firearms in or on vehicle with ammunition in the magazine, breech or clip attached to firearms, or black powder weapons with primer, cap, or flash powder in place.
6. To camp in the management area except in designated sites. Individuals or groups may camp in designated areas for a period not to exceed nine (9) days in any 30-day period. Campfires
must be extinguished before departing. No warming fires shall be permitted away from camping area.
7. To kill or willfully molest any species of wildlife except those designated for hunting. However, this regulation shall not apply to coyote and feral hogs which may be killed during all
scheduled management area hunts, when possessing a valid permit and using weapons and ammunition that are legal for such designated hunts (DAYLIGHT HOURS ONLY) (NO DOGS
ALLOWED). Additionally, bobcat and fox may be killed during all scheduled deer and turkey hunts, when possessing a valid permit and using weapons and ammunitions that are legal for
such designated hunts (DAYLIGHT HOURS ONLY) (NO DOGS ALLOWED). Only one fox may be harvested per day.
8. To discharge fireworks at any time.
9. To discharge firearms for target practice.
10. To hunt or discharge firearms within 150 yards of any camping area, dwelling, dam or timber operation, or within 100 yards of any paved public road or highway, or within a posted safety
zone.
11. To use fire to smoke out game.

[cali]

I live in a rural area and policing duties are split between the Sheriff's office

and the local police in a neighboring town who are contracted to do so.

[lonestarnot]

57. in your case should be either then.

[Toucano]

75. Sheriff is a type of police.

The Sheriff is a specific law enforcement agent for a U.S. county, but "the police" can refer to any law enforcement agent, even the FBI.

The specificity may be preferred, but isn't required.

It's not technically incorrect to refer to the sheriff as "the police".

[moobu2]

79. Mobile City Police respond to emergency 911 calls here

The city boundary is several country roads over from me and there's some deal the county and city have for police emergency responders. I dont know the details. If I call fro a nonemergency, a county sheriff deputy will respond.

[Hawkeye-X]

132. Also, you have to consider that there are Animal Control

and they do investigate for cruelty to animals.

Have you contacted them, just to make sure everything's on the up and up (after all, you are a witness)

You should be contacting the Sheriff's Office anyway..

[dmr]

81. In Miami-Dade County, Miami-Dade PD is also the Sheriff's Dept.

Cops are deputies, but this isn't something you ever hear or think about, though. It's a huge police force. This way they have jurisdiction within Miami city limits which has its own police force. My son's dad was a cop back when it was called Metro-Dade.

[GreenPartyVoter]

62. I can't believe it either. My only consolation is that the poor pup is no longer suffering, but

my god. The horror of its last moments! I've heard of students being expelled from school for badly screwing up an attempt to butcher a pig, but I don't know if they were charged with anything. :cry:

[CaliforniaPeggy]

5. How fucking heartless.

That poor animal. NO WAY did it deserve such an end.

It just makes me sick too.

x(

[michaz]

6. My God, what state do you live in? n/t

[northernlights]

7. What the goddam fuck?

Where are you?

That would be illegal here. And why the fuck did your neighbor go ahead and shoot that poor dog? What the goddam fuck? :cry: :cry: :cry:

[pitohui]

8. really sorry you went thru this

why would neighbor #2 ask neighbor #1 to shoot the dog? could be the dog was in terrible pain, or had some illness and would soon be in terrible pain, had some inoperable condition, etc. and the owner couldn't bear to handle it

that is a terrible thing and knowing what you saw/observed you had no choice but to phone the police but now it's time to give your neighbors the benefit of the doubt

what a thing to have to witness and i have to admit i would be upset too but i'm guessing you don't yet know the whole story

most of the time ALL your neighbors aren't psychoes, one guy can be a psycho, but w. multiple people involved and the police checking it out...i'm guessing there was a reason and the reason was prob., to save suffering to the animal

[LisaL]

12. If the dog is in horrible pain due to some medical issue,

why not take it to the vet to be humanely put down?

[Brickbat]

21. Cost, transport, and so on. A bullet to the head can be humane.

This situation was not.

[pitohui]

28. because the vet charges a lot of money for euthanasia

the neighbor will do it for nothing

[beam me up scottie]

42. Wow! Blew his neighbor's dog's face apart and shot him three times before killing him! For free!

What a deal!

[CreekDog]

117. just stop

we know you hate animals.

we get it.

yeah you probably say you don't but then look at all you've said in this very thread. that is hate my friend.

[CreekDog]

13. "but now it's time to give your neighbors the benefit of the doubt"

unbelievable.

[Ruby the Liberal]

27. No fucking excuse whatsoever. Ever heard of the Humane Society?

They do euthanasia for next to nothing - nothing if you are in dire straits and the animal is in pain/terminal or can't otherwise be adopted.

[pitohui]

32. i never heard of them doing ANYTHING for next to nothing

and considering i know a lot of people active in animal causes i'm gonna guess if i didn't know that, they didn't either

don't start a war w. an armed neighbor willing to use his gun without knowing all the facts

[Kalyke]

109. Bullshit.

My dog of 15 years was bleeding out while I was in the hospital after having given birth to my second child. Hub came home to let him and our other dogs out and to feed them and discovered him.

The FOR PROFIT emergency vet put my dog-baby down for free because he AND my hubby were suffering.

[sabrina 1]

116. Yes, they do. My friend just had her cat's visit to the vet

paid for by the Humane Society because she lost her job at the time (she's working again now) and could not afford it. They do stuff like that all the time, and since most vets don't charge much for euthenizing an animal, they would definitely cover the cost of that. That is why they are called 'The Humane Society'.

[Brickbat]

36. Not always easy to get to the Humane Society, especially in rural areas.

[drm604]

9. Are you certain that the owner gave the shooter permission?

This doesn't sound right to me.

[pitohui]

as per OP they called police and police checked it out

my guess is the dog had some inoperable disease and the owners couldn't deal but didn't want the dog to suffer

otherwise the police would have cited the shotgun wielding guy for killing somebody else's dog...

[drm604]

25. The OP doesn't state that the police checked it out.

For all we know from the description, it may be that they just took the word of the shooter.

[moobu2]

51. I talked to the shooter, then about a half an hour later

when the police arrived, I talked to the owner with the police present. That's when the owner gave me that stupid excuse. I asked him why didnt he take the dog someplace like the shelter and why didn't he tell me because I would have been honored to help find the dog a new home.

The policeman interrupted our conversation and said that the owner acted within the law. I immediately assumed the policemen was wrong and called his superior, then Animal Services and everyone said the exact same thing.

[Darth_Kitten]

121. I'm so sorry you and that poor dog went through this.....

I would write a LTTE....to some major papers around the area.

[CreekDog]

30. you said Vick "killed some dogs" and "so does your vet"

just today.

i think that context helps people more completely understand your point of view --but perhaps not comprehend it. :crazy:

[pitohui]

40. absolutely context is everything

vick was punished more for killing dogs than any man in human history

and i am no fan of that individual (for lack of a better word) but the reality is that it is fairly recent in human history that killing a dog would be considered evil or a crime

it's possible we are talking about some older folk living in the country, the dog is sick and will only get worse, the owners cannot deal with it and doesn't want to see the dog die but doesn't want the dog to suffer so asks the neighbor who likes to play with guns (but can't shoot as well as advertised) to deal with it humanely while they are elsewhere

a very sad story all around but you don't wanna go nuclear on your neighbors once the police have looked into it and said it's kosher

[CreekDog]

46. Slavery was allowed in fairly recent human history

your minimization of particularly brutal dog killing today is astounding.

are you ever going to convince anybody here that reads these posts that your values include protecting the innocent? that you oppose brutality?

we are all here to some extent to persuade others to our point of view in order to have that opinion prevail.

how are you going to convince anybody here who is aghast at both Vick and this story here of anything --or have you lost all credibility based on these posts alone today?

there are things i don't understand. this here is another.

wow.

[michaz]

Doesn't want the dog to suffer? What the hell do you think this dog did?

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[d_r]

10. horrible.

if he had "permission" from the owner, and the dog is that submissive, why not just put the hand gun to the base of the back of the skull and make one clean shot. That sounds like a real effed up horror show.

[dmr]

11. Wait! How about cruelty to animals? How did the cops know if there was permission?

Shooting a gun off in a neighborhood?

And, again, how about cruelty to animals?

WTF? This makes me ill.

[moobu2]

56. It makes me sick as well. I liked the dog a lot too

I talked to him through my fence all the time. His name was blue, I guess because he had big sad blue eyes. Anyway, when it happened, like you, I assumed the shooter had violated several laws concerning animal cruelty and shooting a gun so near other houses or something.

[Pavulon]

87. I would have the conversation with them

it is bad manners even in the country to fire a gun off in a semi residential area without a heads up. If this happened on the corner of two 10,000 acre lots thats one thing, a residential are is not a firing range. If you live in a semi residential area that is really dangerous.

At minimum its bad manners and is worth a comment when getting your mail or something. It sounds like these people are morons so that would be lost on them. Sorry you had to deal with that, you did what any reasonable person would do, called the police and followed it up.

Here in NC it is free to drop an animal off at the shelter to be euthanized.

[proud2BlibKansan]

How did they know he had the owner's permission?

Did he have a note?

[Angry Dragon]

14. Did you talk to neighbor #2??

it sounds totally insane to me

[closeupready]

15. Horrifying.

And sad. :cry:

[Name removed]

17. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LucySky]

18. Can you please put some kind of warning in the subject?

Those details are very upsetting.

[flvegan]

19. I think every state has specific euthanasia laws.

And this doesn't meet any of them.

You need a second opinion on the legality of this.

Poor dog. I couldn't have watched that, and I'd feel really sorry for my neighbor after having done that were this my situation.

[Ruby the Liberal]

20. I am so sorry you had to witness that.

I am NOT a gun person by any stretch, but if I were to ever witness something like that, I would file my application, wait the background check, take lessons at some local gun clinic and waste that asshole. I know, 3 hots and a cot for the rest of my life. The ONLY thing holding me back at that point would be concern about who takes care of my own critters.

Beating the living shit out of this guy is too good for him.

I agree with the above. Call Animal Protection or the ASPCA. If the dog's companion did indeed approve/request this, he is just as guilty of animal cruelty as the maniac that pulled the trigger.

[beam me up scottie]

23. "for the animals, it is an eternal Treblinka."

~Isaac Bashevis Singer

[FreakinDJ]

24. What Gawd Awful Backwoods Jerkwater Shit Hole do you live in

let me know so we can send all our spent plutonium fuel rods there

[ThomCat]

26. How heartless, to ever shoot a dog, or have someone else

shoot your own dog... :cry:

And a playful, non-aggressive dog? What's wrong with that? Why not find a new owner if he didn't want to keep that dog?

:wtf:

That poor dog! :cry:

What heartless neighbors you have. I wish they had told you or someone else what they were going to do so that the dog could have been rescued.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

65. I could never do it but my father-in-law will shoot an animal on request.

He was raised on a farm and that's the way they did it.

His wife tells the story how the neighbor came over crying because his dog was really old and sick but he didn't have the nerve to put him down. The FIL said in a kind voice "I'll shoot your dog" and he did the deed.

While we were down there two weeks ago, the phone rang and it was one of the neighbors asking if Dennis could come over and shoot their horse. It was a beloved family pet - 40 years old and sickly. It finally went down and couldn't get up. He put on his coat and grabbed his 22 and out the door he went. I drove by the house latter that day and could see the owner filling in the grave with a shovel. I guess, normally, they call the rendering plant and the plant sends a truck. Apparently they were really attached to this horse. After forty years I suppose you would be.

That's country living.

[ThomCat]

70. Out in the country is one thing, but in an area with

a police department on call, they likely also have someplace that could humanely put an animal to sleep if there was a need. Certainly any vet could also do it. Many vets will even make a house call to put an animal to sleep.

In this OP, there is no indication that the dog needed down for some reason. If so, there were better ways than shooting the dog. Especially if the neighbor wasn't a good enough shot to do it cleanly with one shot. That dog suffered. :(

If there wasn't any reason for that dog to die other than the owner not wanting it anymore, what then? What's the justification for shooting the dog?

It would have been much better for that dog to go to a vet. Many vets will try to re-adopt out dogs, find new owners. That would have been the humane thing to do if this dog was healthy and social.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

74. Oh I agree. I was just commenting about how some people DO humanely put their own down.

I could never do it.

I think a house call is the best way. My girl gets nervous going to the vet so I don't want her last moments to be spent in fear. But then again, she is going to live forever - at least that's what I keep telling myself :(

[Hassin Bin Sober]

139. I hope I'm not coming across as defending the butcher in the OP.

Their treatment of that dog is/was despicable - and I would rather I wasn't near a weapon if I witnessed that act.

[michaz]

72. Geez, we call a vet here. n/t

[shireen]

107. the difference being that your FIL knows how to

kill the animal instantly and humanely. That's why his neighbors call him, they knew he'd get it done right the first time. It is a difficult thing to do; your FIL seems to be kind and compassionate person.

[Crystal Clarity]

126. Wait, what? A 22?

I suppose it'd be possible to kill a horse w/one as long as it's a perfectly aimed shot to the head, but even then I'd call that iffy... 22's are not very powerful. I had one when I was 12 and used it only to shoot bottles and cans. That's what most people use them for.

If you use a 22 to kill an animal, (nothing I'd ever do btw) it'd be a small one such as a squirrel or rabbit or cat even.

I'm not saying I don't believe you, but think you are probably mistaken as to the weapon your FIL used. If he grew up on a farm and frequently would put down animals, he'd most likely know enough to use something more powerful than a 22 to put down an animal as big as a horse.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

135. Nope. Definitely a 22. I asked him before he left and then watched him walk out with the 22 rifle.

According to him, there is a "star" about two fingers above the eye that will put the horse out "like a light"

I've read about 22s used by mob hit-men. Less mess and less noise but it has to be done correctly - behind the ear. :scared:

Unlike this guy, Chicago mobster Kenny "Tokyo Joe" Eto:

http://www.thechicagosyndicate.com/2008/04/fbi-secret-files-on-mobster-ken-eto.html
But most memorable: 25 years ago he became the only Outfit boss to survive a mob hit. In 1983, Ken Eto became the first hoodlum ever to experience a gangland hangover when a half dozen bullets squeezed from a silencer-equipped pistol, somehow ricocheted off his skull

I've read different accounts that the ammo was either "old" or it was hand-loaded with not enough powder. It was hand loaded because the assassins didn't want to have it traced. The assassins-to-be, one of them a Cook County sheriff deputy, ended up in a trunk in a car in Naperville for their mistake.

[Crystal Clarity]

136. OK, I'll take your FIL's word for it

Based on how you describe the man, he sounds like a decent person and truly was doing this as an act of kindness for his neighbor (and the sick/dying horse). Plus, after my post to you, I did some googling and found that yes, it's possible to euthanize an animal of that size w/a 22 (particularly w/a 22 mag and if done correctly). It sounds as if he knew what he was doing based on your last reply. And the fact that I understand the cost associated w/vet care for a large animal (either in transport or home visit vet care) I 'get' it.

Sorry that I jumped on it. I just (at first) pictured a suffering animal being put down irresponsibly w/an insufficient firearm.

The rest of your post creeped me out though, but in a good way (I guess) because it helped me understand why people who are not of rural origin may have 'issues' w/guns... to put it mildly. Awful, awful stuff happening in this world these days, when people seem to have no qualms about shooting to kill fellow human beings. Not that we here in rural America are immune to gun violence either, but your link showed me how horribly indiscriminate it CAN be under many different circumstances. :scared:

I've gotten WAY off track from the OP so I'd like to go back to it briefly to say that this story is a horrible thing. I read it to my SO who, unlike me, actually hunts. He found the story despicable. In his words, "Somebody was using that poor dog for shooting practice". I hadn't originally thought of it that way but yes, that would be the most likely scenario since; who uses a pistol to 'humanely' put an animal down? A pistol is not as easy to accurately pinpoint your target with, and only gives you one shot. Plus, if you f'up in a bad way, it's not a quick thing to remedy. Apparently the neighbor didn't care. Sick, Sick, Sick!

So anyway, I just thought I ought to follow up. To bad it had to be this awful story in which to meet you. :-( Take care.

[d_r]

137. not to jump in

but I had the same first thought as you - "I wouldn't shoot a horse with a .22." But come to think of it, I've heard that a .22 is good for that sort of thing because if the bullet goes in a soft part of skull it then "rattles around" inside. sorry if I'm being too graphic.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

138. I didn't take any offense.

And yes, the story in the OP creeped me out. Anytime I hear these stories I grab my pup and squeeze her hard. She always has this look like "what now?"

Anyway you take care too.:hug:

[michaz]

33. And once again...where do you live? n/t

[xchrom]

34. I believe very little of what you have told here. Nt

[Pithlet]

37. They just took neighbor number 1's word for it?

Hmmmmm.....

[moobu2]

38. I live just outside the city limits of Mobile Alabama

In Mobile County.

[michaz]

41. Well then, a letter to the editor is about to be on its way. n/t

[pitohui]

43. again i'm really sorry you went thru this

i have read more about yr neighbors and you say the neighbor was frightened the dog would hurt his mom w. cancer

that is truly tragic, so many scare stories out there lately about how dogs can "smell" cancer

what's done is done and can't be undone, he thought he was doing the right thing to help his mom, all you can do is remember it's xmas and try not to hold hate in your heart

[michaz]

48. Huh? You are kidding, right? Anyone with half a brain knows he

wouldn't do this for any damn reason! Spare me this one!

[CreekDog]

54. wow again

at the fear because "dogs can smell cancer".

so they shot the dog and shot off his face trying a second time?

i'm just at a complete loss here. these opinions are so over the top today that i can't believe i'm on DU.

[flvegan]

45. Might want to call those cops back. Euthanasia code link inside

http://www.alabamahumanefederation.org/euthanasia_of_animals.htm

[Pithlet]

49. Out of curiosity I went and looked at some links on laws in Mobile County.

Basically, it's not legal. So.... :shrug:

[bluestate10]

50. That explains everything that happened. nt

[moobu2]

61. I know.

The Woman Officer I spoke to at Mobile County Animal services was very sympathetic to the situation and said you know this is Alabama?

[bluestate10]

140. Sorry man. Hope you get more people like you down there, fast. nt.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

39. This is plain and simply animal cruelty

Tell shithead #2 how his dog was murdered. Explain that shithead #1 had a little blood sport with the dog before he finally ended it.

I would get a lawyer and see if I could sue shithead #1 for metal damages to me, at the very least have a lawyer scare him. After that I would make shithead #1 life's hell till I found some where else to live.

I'm so glad we own almost a thousand acres that we live in the middle of so I don't have to put up with shitheads.

[Crystal Clarity]

52. Hey this is just sick

Even if the neighbor told the other one to put the dog down... Why not a vet if the animal is sick or dying?

My SO hunts but would never shoot one of our family pets, or even ask someone else to do it. There's always the possibility of this type of outcome even w/the most experienced of marksmen, so why risk it?

It cost us less then $20 to have our terminally ill 8 year old german shepherd put to sleep... peacefully in our arms he went. I still miss him over a decade later, but I know we did what we had to do and he went w/out fear or pain.

If there is no law against that type of treatment of pets, then there oughta be. You should make sure of it. I'll be looking into it my area too. Just in case.

[Kaleva]

55. It appears that Alabama state law has been violated.

Here is what I found:

§ 13A-11-14 Cruelty to Animals
(3) Kills or injures without good cause any animal belonging to another.
(b) Cruelty to animals is a Class B misdemeanor and on the first conviction of a violation of this section shall be punished by a fine of not more than three thousand dollars ($3,000) or imprisonment in the county jail for not more than six months, or both fine and imprisonment; on a second conviction of a violation of this section, shall be punished by a fine of not less than five hundred dollars ($500) nor more than three thousand dollars ($3,000) or imprisonment in the county jail for not more than six months, or both fine and imprisonment; and on a third or subsequent conviction of a violation of this section, shall be punished by a fine of not less than one thousand dollars ($1,000) nor more than three thousand dollars ($3,000) or imprisonment in the county jail for not more than six months, or both fine and imprisonment.

§ 13A-11-246. Applicability.
This article shall not apply to any of the following persons or institutions:
(2) Any owner of a dog or cat who euthanizes the dog or cat for humane purposes.

http://www.nationalaglawcenter.org/assets/animalcruelty/alabama.pdf

(c) Euthanasia shall be performed only by a licensed veterinarian or an employee or agent of a facility approved by the board that is operated for the collection and care of stray, neglected, abandoned, or unwanted animals, provided the employee or agent has successfully completed a euthanasia technician certification course. The curriculum for the course shall be approved by the board and shall include, at a minimum, all of the following:

(1) The pharmacology, proper administration, and storage of euthanasia solutions.

(2) Federal and state laws regulating the storage and accountability of scheduled drugs.

(3) OSHA Safety and Material Safety Data Sheet Regulations.

(4) Euthanasia stress management.

(5) Proper disposal of euthanized animals.

(d) Notwithstanding the foregoing, a licensed veterinary technician, in accordance with Section 34-29-94, and regulations adopted pursuant thereto, who is an employee or agent of a licensed veterinarian or animal shelter as defined in Section 34-29-130, may perform euthanasia without completing the certification course required by subsection (c).

http://www.alabamahumanefederation.org/euthanasia_of_animals.htm

[GreenPartyVoter]

64. So why is everyone saying that it was legal? And can the OP bring charges under this since

I am sure the owner won't.

[Kaleva]

71. OP ought to contact the Mobile County Animal Shelter

"In addition to control and adoptions of unwanted animals, the Mobile County Animal Shelter is charged with investigation of animal cruelty and dog bite cases. "

http://www.mobilecountyanimals.com/

I don't know why some are saying it was legal as it sure appears to be an illegal act to me.

[michaz]

73. I already contacted them. n/t

[Kaleva]

83. Thanks!

[lonestarnot]

59. Not!

[applegrove]

60. That is so awful. I don't have words.

[michaz]

63. Did you speak with someone at the Animal Shelter ?

[moobu2]

68. I called Mobile County Animal Services thinking

they would have the authority to take some action. They told me there was nothing illegal about any of it though.

[jesus_of_suburbia]

66. This is disgusting. I'd move if I were you.

If you can't afford to move, I'd keep an eye on ALL my loved ones (pets AND people).

Those who don't mind harming animals in a cruel manner are more likely to feel the same way about humans.


As described in your post, that poor dog suffered needlessly.

[underseasurveyor]

67. How sad. Sorry you witness this senseless cruelty and killing

Poor dog. I'd be more pissed at the owner for giving the ok to somebody else to kill his dog when obviously he didn't have the guts to do his own dirty work.

[mrs_p]

69. this is one of the worst things i have ever read

how traumatic... you may want to discuss this with a professional animal grief counselor. i know it wasn't your dog, but what a horrific thing to witness.

there is someone in Alabama: http://www.superdog.com/petloss/counsel.htm

[Toucano]

76. Of course, you're already planning to move, right?

Those people are not right, even for yokels.

[moobu2]

77. I cant move right now, wish I could. Maybe one day.

[Toucano]

80. Well, here's hoping that day is sooner rather than later. n/t

[Contrary1]

78. Assholes...

A few years ago, my 2 dogs got loose out of a fenced yard, because the meter reader didn't bother to close the gate.

I had taken my mother for her dialysis, and on the way back found one of our pets running down the middle of the street. The other was nowhere to be found.

A few hours later, he came limping home with a belt around his neck. Some low life had shot him with a pellet gun...in the ears, behind his eyes, and up his nostrils.

He also had a wound between his eyes that had punctured a hole in his sinuses.

It cost us several hundred dollars to save him, but he was never his old self afterward.

I actually put an ad in the local paper with a hefty reward to whoever named the asshole responsible, but there were no responses.

Mikey lived a few years on...but like I said; he was never the same.

Assholes should never own pets.

[toastbutter]

82. That's how it works in my state

It is legal to kill (and that includes shoot) a household pet. It is legal to kill a pet as long as one does not do it in an unduly cruel manner etc.

Now, depending on where one lives in my county, it may be a "no shoot" area. In a no-shoot area, it would be a firearms violation. In a shoot area, it's legal, as long as one isn't shooting recklessly (iow up in the air or horizontally without some sort of backstop).

Briefly put, one has the right to euthanize one's pet w/o permission or reason. I don't LIKE it, but it's the law.

[moobu2]

84. For everyone thinking what happened here

amounted to "legal" animal Cruelty, like I assumed it would have been myself. The way it was explained to me, by 3 high ranking authorities, was that if the guy had shot the dog without permission, that that would be considered animal Cruelty. The fact that the shooter had permission from the dogs owner to shoot the dog was the key factor that made the difference. I cant understand that myself but nevertheless that's the way it is here apparently.

For those who find this hard to believe, like I probably would have if I hadn't experienced it, save your accusations. Just call the numbers I called and give the details and ask yourself.

Mobile County Animal Services - 251-574-3647 (I had a long phone conversation about this with an officer there)

Corporal Christian with the Mobile police department - 251-208-7211 (I had a long conversation with this guy who was supposed to be in charge of the other police officers)

The other people I talked to were the police officers that responded to my call and the 911 dispatch person that was very good, but when she found out the shooter had permission to shoot the dog, she also said there was nothing illegal about it.

[flvegan]

97. Wrong.

And it's been pointed out several times in this thread.

Either you're dealing with idiots, or this is more bouncy than a tub of Flubber.

[moobu2]

101. You're the one that is wrong here.

nothing has been pointed out anywhere.

[flvegan]

111. Unlikely.

Laughable.

[krispos42]

85. An animal is property, and the owner has the right to kill it if he/she wants to

Having said that, this was done in a horrible, horrible way and that aspect of it should be illegal. A person may have the right to kill his pet, but that person doesn't have the right to make it suffer!

If you choose to "go it alone" in the euthanasia department, you'd better know what the hell you're doing!

Some sort of charges should have been filed. Illegal discharge of a weapon. Inadvertant cruelty to an animal. SOMETHING.

[Kaleva]

86. It's illegal in Alabama to "go it alone" when putting down a pet.

"(c) Euthanasia shall be performed only by a licensed veterinarian or an employee or agent of a facility approved by the board that is operated for the collection and care of stray, neglected, abandoned, or unwanted animals, provided the employee or agent has successfully completed a euthanasia technician certification course. The curriculum for the course shall be approved by the board and shall include, at a minimum, all of the following:

(1) The pharmacology, proper administration, and storage of euthanasia solutions.

(2) Federal and state laws regulating the storage and accountability of scheduled drugs.

(3) OSHA Safety and Material Safety Data Sheet Regulations.

(4) Euthanasia stress management.

(5) Proper disposal of euthanized animals.

(d) Notwithstanding the foregoing, a licensed veterinary technician, in accordance with Section 34-29-94, and regulations adopted pursuant thereto, who is an employee or agent of a licensed veterinarian or animal shelter as defined in Section 34-29-130, may perform euthanasia without completing the certification course required by subsection (c)."


http://www.alabamahumanefederation.org/euthanasia_of_animals.htm

[krispos42]

88. Then shouldn't charges have been filed?

I fully agree that euthanasia should be left to the professionals... I had to get a kitten put down once and it was horrible. It had a nervous system disorder and wouldn't have lived well.


He was very cute though.



His name was Webster. :-(


Damn, now I have something in my eye.

[Kaleva]

90. I've had to put down many a pet that was either very sick or injured.

Hated doing that. Still today I feel bad for all the dogs, cats and other animals I've shot. Now I bring the pet to the vet. I'll still shoot a pet if it's in terrible agony and there is no hope but I hope I will never have to.

[krispos42]

93. Yeah.

I'm still working on my first "real" pet, The Fluff. She's almost 11 now and pretty healthy, if a bit plump.

I've had her since she was a kitten.

[moobu2]

94. You were right in your other post

about animals being considered personal property. I found out today that here where I live, you can kill your own animal, or have someone else kill it as long as you kill it in some human way. As I talked to the 911 operator, she was fully supportive of thinking what happened amounted to animal cruelty until she found out the owners had given permission, than, she did a complete turnaround. Same thing with everyone I talked to. As soon as they found out the owners had given them permission, that was the end of it. I really never knew that.

[krispos42]

102. The guy muffed it, though

40 hours community service in an animal shelter, minimum.

[flvegan]

112. Actually, you're wrong.

Ethically, at least.

"It"

Hmmmmmmm...

An animal being "property" doesn't trump law.

"It"

Did you see that..."it"

[ehrnst]

127. Not in all states. There are animal cruelty laws in most states that would make this illegal. (nt)

[TexasObserver]

89. Discharging a gun in the city is usually a crime.

Unless it is a necessity.

Assuming the owner of the dog has a right to put him down by shooting him in that state (which may not be the case), there's still the issue of doing so at the proper place in the proper manner. Shooting the dog in the city is not the proper place. Shooting a dog from less than point blank range to kill it instantly on the first shot is the proper manner, if a dog is to be killed in that manner. Anything less is animal cruelty.

You should report all this to your local Animal shelter or group, as well as national groups. Get all the facts, the names, the places, the times, the dates, the people involved, and send them to national group. They'll act on your report.

The police appear to be misinformed. Perhaps a call to your state's attorney general's office is in order.

[moobu2]

95. I live just outside the city limits in Mobile Alabama

technically in the county. I think we have very lax laws in regards to shooting guns here because hardly a day goes by without me hearing one discharge nearby. I'll check into this a little further tomorrow.

[Kaleva]

96. Doesn't seem to jive with Alabama state law.

[moobu2]

98. I think that is because you seem to have a misunderstanding

of the law here that covers this issue. Here, In Mobile County Alabama, the animals that you legally own are your property and you can legally kill your animals for any reason whatsoever. You are supposed to kill them humanly is the only stipulation. The Alabama statutes you posted cover other legal issues involving euthanasia not related to this situation.

[LisaL]

100. Do they really think shooting a dog three times to kill it in the

way you describe is humane?

[moobu2]

104. I explained the shootings to the officer in charge

in more detail to him (and the others) than I did here and the officer said it wasn't legal cruelty. It was horribly cruel, obviously, but they didn't think it was prosecutable legal cruelty. Dogs are considered personal property here and I guess you can legally kill them by shooting them several times if you want.

[Kaleva]

103. well, I refer back to the specific legal article

"§ 13A-11-246. Applicability.
This article shall not apply to any of the following persons or institutions:
(2) Any owner of a dog or cat who euthanizes the dog or cat for humane purposes."

Was the dog so sick there was no hope? Was the dog a threat to the owner or neighbors? What was the humane purpose of killing the dog?

Now, while an owner can have his or her pet euthanized, the other link with excerpt clarified who may actually do the task. It has to be a vet or someone trained in animal euthanasia. A willing neighbor with a pistol doesn't seem to qualify.

Edit: Next time you talk to these folks, ask them to cite the applicable law which clearly states that what was done was legal because it sure seems to me that it is in conflict with state law.

[moobu2]

105. The owner said he was afraid the dog would hurt his mother who has cancer.

Which is obviously a stupid excuse. I guess the authorities I spoke to today thought that excuse was good enough to satisfy this part of the statute.

This article shall not apply to any of the following persons or institutions:
(2) Any owner of a dog or cat who euthanizes the dog or cat for humane purposes."

I dont know, it's just what they told me. No one I talked to liked the idea that the dog was shot so many times, but the officer in charge said the guy would have had to set the dog on fire or some other horrible thing for it to amount to legal cruelty. I was stunned trust me but thats what I came up against trying to report this.

[Kaleva]

106. I think you're up against a bunch of people who think the matter isn't worth fussing over.

[moobu2]

125. I think that's it. Technically, what happened probably crossed the legal line

but the authorities I talked to had no interest in pursuing the matter at all. Now, before they realized the owner gave permission, they were very interested in helping, after finding out this happened with the owners permission, nothing.

[Kalyke]

108. That's what I was thinking.

Damn.

[DeadEyeDyck]

91. K n R

Domestic

[Violet_Crumble]

92. That can't be right. I'd contact the RSPCA or whatever they call it in the US...

I know the US is a different country with sometimes different laws, but I can't believe that even if the dog's owner had given permission to shoot it, that it'd be legal to do it. Apart from that poor dog's death being a prolonged and terrifying one, surely people can't just run round in a residential area shooting away like cowboys. I mean, it must have been traumatic enough for you to see that, so imagine if a child had seen it. It's just wrong on so many levels, and I'm so sorry you have neighbours like that...

[Barack_America]

99. Well, this was fucking horrifying. Mobile, AL will never get a dime of my money after this.

How I'm going to sleep tonight I don't know.

[shireen]

110. like one poster said earlier, law enforcement probably

does not want to deal with it because the dog's "owner" apparently gave the neighbor permission. It could still be illegal but they may choose not to pursue it.

But what the shooter did, discharging a firearm in a residential area, even if it is rural, was very dangerous and irresponsible. Bullets can ricochet off hard surfaces and hurt other people and animals nearby. It could go through a window and injure or kill a person inside the house. The fact that you were within talking or shouting distance of the shooting is very troubling. If this was a mercy killing (I doubt it, but for the sake of argument, let's consider that), the animal has to be immobilzed in some way and the shots fired in a direction and distance that would ensure instantaneous death and safety to others. The shooter also needs to know exactly where to aim to cause instantaneous death. There's no way in hell he can accomplish that with the dog running around.


If you're still up for it, you may want to investigate whether it's legal to fire a weapon in that manner, that close to neighbors. Did the shooter do it safely (apparently not, if the dog was running around).

At the very least, that fool and the idiot neighbor that "owns" the dog deserve to be sued for emotional distress.

[moobu2]

123. I think you're right

Once the people I talked to found out the dogs owner gave permission, they immediately lost interest. I didn't realize to what extent animals are considered private property here, much like a bicycle or a plant or some other non-living object. If the guy had shot the dog without permission, that would be considered 'legal' animal cruelty, but since he had permission, that wasn't 'legally' considered animal cruelty. It has nothing to do with cruelty really if you think about it. Its more of a property issue here.

[blueamy66]

113. Holy shit

That's all I got.

[Mojeoux]

114. This is horrible!

I'm so sorry you had to see this happen. Please update DU on any later actions.

[RegieRocker]

115. What city and munincipality if one. I would like to make a call on this one.

If you don't give this info I say this is false flag.

[moobu2]

124. I mentioned several times up-thread

that I live just outside the Mobile Alabama city limits in Mobile County. Mobile City police respond to emergency 911 calls here where I live.

[RegieRocker]

133. Cool thanks

do you have a number to call? Thread too long to read it all. I would like to call them.

[Le Taz Hot]

118. FOR FUCK'S SAKE

WOULD YOU PLEASE PUT A WARNING ON THIS????????????????????????????

[Dash87]

119. Stupid redneck idiots.

Yeehaw! I'm gonna shoot mah dawg! Hold mah beer n watch dis!

Stupid pathetic morons. They could have just taken the dog to a shelter, but that's too much effort. They could have even dumped it off and it would be better. They have to just kill it instead. Losers.

My neighbor had his dogs attack another dog in our neighborhood a while ago, and then stepped on the dog's neck to kill it. Why? Because he enjoyed it. What a piece of shit. Whenever I see him and his ugly wife, I want to barf. He has an odd resemblance of a mix between Dennis Raider and the guy from The Lovely Bones. Creep.

[Vinca]

120. What the hell kind of community do you live in?

[Darth_Kitten]

122. Someplace where psycho neighbours can torture an animal, apparently.

Sad. So Sad. :mad:

[michaz]

128. Well you know folks...we can beat this to death all week long but...

their is only one way to deal with this kind of situation. You have to have people within that community, county and state that create a fuss. They contact their government officials statewide, county wide and town wide, shelters and animal control officers. You pound them with letters, emails and phone calls. You involve rescue groups and the state ASPCA or Humane Society. You write letters to the editor of all the newspapers and the big one is you contact your TV stations. The media always loves to run with this kind of stuff. When you threaten to call the media it often makes those in control of these laws stand up and take notice, they don't want this kind of publicity. If some jerk tried this here in NYS he would be visiting the police, sheriff or state police station in a heart beat! Things don't change if you don't make them change, but you have to be willing to do more than just complain about them...you have to complain to the right people. You have to make the phone calls and write the letters and emails. You have to let them know what happened, detail by detail, because that is what makes people realize. So I would suggest that people on this board start calling and writing and not waste any time so that it can't be swept under the rug. Common sense tells a normal person that something like this that happened is just plain wrong and out of the norm. Most of us here realize that these 2 guys, Neighbor #1 and neighbor #2 are obviously sick! One for believing that the dog would hurt his mother cause she has cancer and the other for doing something like he did. Actually, in my book, they both need some counseling at least or a good mental institution. There is no reason what so ever for any person to do this, even if a stupid law says you can.

[lonestarnot]

130. And anyone seeing it happen and does little more than turned away after a rebuffed phone call is

just as guilty. I would be calling the fucking Mayor, Governor, Attorney general, press or whoever. I wouldn't shut the fuck up until something was done about it.

[Pithlet]

131. And the "stupid laws" say they can't.

And I'm having a hard time understanding why the OP is coming across so much resistance, when clearly cases like that do get prosecuted. In Mobile County. People did fight for tougher laws and got them. I was able to go and find some successful cases with a quick google. I can believe it's possible that cops would maybe show up on the scene but do nothing. Maybe. But beyond that? I'm scratching my head. Maybe it's just a matter of finding out the right people to talk to. I don't know. Yes, the deep south is different in a lot of ways. But living here, I can attest that they aren't all a bunch of complete monsters. There are people down here that care and will do the right thing. I would urge someone in a situation like this to keep trying.

[ehrnst]

129. I think that a local news station would likely be interested in this. (nt)

[deaniac21]

134. Did it have cholera?

[Zanzobar]

141. It's called the "10 cent vet" around here.

It refers to the price of a .22 round. YMMV.

I don't advocate using the 10 cent vet, but I've heard numerous reasons for using it.

Mostly bad reasons delivered flippantly. Laziness, callousness.

It would work better if the marksman were not a dipshit.