The Selfish Rich Are Killing Retired People

[marmar]

from the Working Life blog:



The Selfish Rich Are Killing Retired People
by Jonathan Tasini

Thursday 23 of December, 2010


We have a huge crisis in the country. The private pension system is collapsing. The public pension system is on the brink of collapse, and people are being pitted one against the other. But, what we often fail to do is connect the dots: between the collapse of the public pensions system and the robbery of the country by the richest people. Here's another example.

The traditional press is reporting this, first the NYTimes:

This struggling small city on the outskirts of Mobile was warned for years that if it did nothing, its pension fund would run out of money by 2009. Right on schedule, its fund ran dry.

Then Prichard did something that pension experts say they have never seen before: it stopped sending monthly pension checks to its 150 retired workers, breaking a state law requiring it to pay its promised retirement benefits in full.

Since then, Nettie Banks, 68, a retired Prichard police and fire dispatcher, has filed for bankruptcy. Alfred Arnold, a 66-year-old retired fire captain, has gone back to work as a shopping mall security guard to try to keep his house. Eddie Ragland, 59, a retired police captain, accepted help from colleagues, bake sales and collection jars after he was shot by a robber, leaving him badly wounded and unable to get to his new job as a police officer at the regional airport.

Far worse was the retired fire marshal who died in June. Like many of the others, he was too young to collect Social Security. "When they found him, he had no electricity and no running water in his house," said David Anders, 58, a retired district fire chief. "He was a proud enough man that he wouldn’t accept help." (emphasis added)

Let me repeat that last emphasis: the man was too proud to ask for help and so he died alone with no electricity and no running water in his house.

The Wall Street Journal:

Though bankruptcy law remains murky on how far a city or town can go in scrapping deals for current retirees, cases like Prichard and other workout efforts stand to reshape the debate over how local governments deal with mounting public-pension problems.

The stakes are high for taxpayers, public workers and bondholders, as concerns escalate about whether governments can pay their debts.

....
But legal and municipal-finance experts say rising pension costs, combined with dwindling state and federal aid, could push more cities to follow Prichard's lead, or at least raise the prospect as possible leverage in contract negotiations with public workers.

It is astonishing that both these stories, and I presume, the rest in the media, ignore the obvious:

The careful and decades-long obliteration of a fair tax system has brought these pension plans to the brink.

In New York States, and virtually, every other state, we could wipe out fiscal deficits and continue to have decent pensions for people if the wealthiest paid their fair share--rather than continue to get unconscionable tax cuts. In NY, if the state replaced the existing rate structure (consisting of 5 brackets with rates ranging from 4.0 to 6.85%) with one consisting of 14 brackets with rates ranging from 2.0 to 15.0%, we could bring in $6-7 billion more, and perhaps as high as $11 billion. ...............(more)

The complete piece is at: http://www.workinglife.org/blogs/view_post.php?content_id=15060

[Hugabear]

1. Get used to this - it's only going to get worse, far worse

n/t

[hobbit709]

3. It will continue until the day the starving peasants appear at the palace gates

If history shows us anything is that it repeats. 1789, 1848, 1905, 1917.

[WinkyDink]

11. Unfortunately, then TPTB and the peasantry were equal, weapons-wise, but are not so, now.

[hobbit709]

13. what happens when the army join the revolution.

It's happened before.

[JDPriestly]

19. In some instances, the government does not call out the army because

the government wants the army close at hand, first to control it and second out of fear of the masses. Also, local police and even the military have to be paid out of tax revenue. When the rich stop paying the large part of the taxes, the poor get poorer and soon are unable to pay their taxes. Naturally, the military and the local police cannot perform if they are not paid. I think that is what has happened in some of the past periods we call "revolutionary." I think that was a factor in the French Revolution. The rich refused to pay taxes and the government was in serious debt, so law and civic order kind of disintegrated.

[Confusious]

27. It was that the Aristocracy and the church rigged the system

So they didn't have to pay taxes. The burden fell on the backs of the peasants (The cost of french help in our revolution BTW) They could pay it, but they couldn't eat. BOOM!

There was also the king fucking with the estates general ( Kinda like a congress)

[AlbertCat]

52. and the church rigged the system... So they didn't have to pay taxes.

And this is different from America how????

[JDPriestly]

62. The church in many parts of Europe including France

owned a lot of the land suited for agriculture. That is not the case here. Churches tend to own their buildings and pay staff mostly for religious education purposes, but religious organizations are limited as to how much tax-free income they can earn from farms or businesses.

[JDPriestly]

54. Right, Confusious.

[valerief]

30. The biggest obstacles to winning over the military are Fox and Big Pharma.

The brain is a terrible thing to wash.

[Golden Raisin]

36. That's what Blackwater/Xe is for.

[hobbit709]

40. from Flowers Of The Night

Old man get some soldiers, keep them close at hand
There's a fire in the country, there's a flame come to the land
Seven thousand loyal troops, in ranks they stretch so far
With seven thousand well armed men, no one can touch the czar.

Louis watch the prisons, send the goons around
Is that Paris burning, is the Bastille falling down?
And where are all the mercenaries - paid for by the king?
Have they joined the mob you say, doesn't money mean anything?

[roguevalley]

22. consider this. There are 350 m people in america and if only

2m of them are in good shape, they won't have enough guns to keep the other 348 m from killing them. They don't have that kind of firepower. There aren't private or governmental armies big enough. Don't let the fact they have money fool you. Money is a poor flak jacket.

[WinkyDink]

24. Guns? Who said anything about mere GUNS?! Hello, Afghanistan!

And who amongst us is willing to be Wat Tyler?

[roguevalley]

28. Me, if it gets cold enough. It's -18 up here and our natural gas

supplier, Enstar, is talking about having to find adequate gas to keep us all alive. Get cold and hungry enough, you will throw complacency away. :-D Uh, Merry Christmas you all! ;)

[Mimosa]

29. They have better weapons: predator drones & those microwave projecting crowd control vehicles

They have far better weapons now.

[paparush]

34. They have Blackwater/Xe Services on the payroll...(paid for by, um, us!)

[JDPriestly]

64. Those things will do no good to stop an economy from crumbling

from the bottom up. We are talking about loss of basic services needed for hygiene, things like that. When inner cities like Detroit can no longer pay their police, their firemen, their garbage disposal staff and keep public transportation going (and that appears to be where we are headed), then it becomes very difficult for the rich to keep and continue to earn their money. The poverty is creeping toward the enclaves of the rich.

Lots of houses in wealthy neighborhoods are in foreclosure or being sold. The property values of the wealthy are beginning to decline also. They haven't really felt it yet, but they will. There is no alternative for the rich but to pay the greatest part of the taxes. No alternative. The price they pay when they don't wipes out their gains.

[TheKentuckian]

41. Hence my arguably insane position on personal weapons control

The populace must remain at least a match for their government.

[TheMadMonk]

45. And when you figure out that holding that attitude is why you need that attitude...

...the rest of the world will heave a great sigh of relief.

The selfish rich are only a part of the problem. A bigger part of the same problem are the selfish poor and middle classes, absolutely convinced that they too can become selfish rich people, if the "welfare parasites" were prevented from taking their "hard earned money".

In America a man does for himeself or he does without and so do his children. Without food, without shelter and without medicine. And as a nation you collectively look down your noses at him and tell him he's not trying hard enough.

A few of you are just starting to "get it", but overall the nation still remains convinced that if "the other bloke" would just pull his own weight NO ONE would have to pay any taxes at all.

[TheKentuckian]

49. What the fuck do taxes have to do with gun control?

Why would believing the populace should have the level of might to counter the government have to do with looking down on those with less or the selfishness of Americans?

[rhett o rick]

58. I am beginning to think you arent really mad. We Americans used to have a dream to have a good famil...

family, good job, education for our children and a decent retirement. But after decades of media brainwashing, the typical American worships the rich and desires to become rich. The new American Dream is to win the lotto and be like Donald Trump. There seems to me to be a national selfishness that is exploited by the republicans. I just read a blog where a republican said that the 911 first responders had already received billions and didnt need any more help. Sad, but it is just greed speaking.

[TheMadMonk]

72. OH FUCKING PLEASE! The Great American Dream is half the problem.

It never fucking existed as a potential reality except for a small fraction of the US Populace. It has never been anything more than a lotto. The right parents, the right place, the right idea, the right time, the right friends and the first truly objective qualities that give a person a "chance" in America are those specific combinations of physical prowess which create an elite athlete. Gladiator material in an earlier more brutal age.

With a little bit of the right stuff, the default American Dream: 2 cars, house, spouse and 2.4 kids is realisable, IF your parents had a piece of that dream. Without a start, and a lot of the "right stuff" you might make it soon enough to give your children a chance at the dream.

For those who actually made it possible for the Middle America to come into being: The slaves and ex-slaves; always Hispanics; the Italian immigrants and Irish; then Asians and most recently Middle Easterners, the American Dream is an occasionally offered prize keeping the proles ever hopefull that THEY might be "The One" to realise that proffered "Dream" next.

And for a long time it's all been a pretty good ride. But ALL of America has been one great Ponzi scheme from the start. The whole edifice has been built on an enormous transfer of wealth from the bottom to the top. And now that most of the wealth has made it to the top the whole house of cards is colapsing. Running the whole mess on credit papered over the cracks for a while, but as we're now seeing all that was really accomplished was to transfer a goodly chunk of the last bit of concrete wealth in the middle (the family home) upwards.

And running right through it all from the moment the Americas were first settled are guns. Guns to take from the natives what they were not using properly. Guns to prevent the natives from taking back what was taken from them. More guns, because for some it seemed easier to let others do the toiling in soil, and just take the proceeds. So more guns still to hold onto what's yours. Guns were so central the American lifestyle that their possession was made a constitutional right.

Right at the guts of the national credo is an almost pathological belief that the other bloke is a <choose your perjorative> and as a nation (and generic individuals) Americans tend to behave accordingly. It becomes a self fullfilling prophecy.

Bad enough that everything looks like a nail when the only tool you have is a hammer. When the tool is a gun everything becomes either prey or a threat.

[rhett o rick]

73. Well, EXCUSE ME.

[rhett o rick]

46. We need a lot more than deer rifles to be a "match". nm

[TheKentuckian]

50. My point exactly

[AlbertCat]

53. We need a lot more than deer rifles to be a "match".

Maybe some more "training" would help.... and some smarts. The "selfish poor & middle class" are a huge problem, because they are the ones who think they are right to think with their "gut". When gut thinking and revelation are on equal footing with reason, logic and empirical evidence (as is the case in the USA today) then all the guns in the world can't protect you. They just make you a menace.

The Mad Monk is so right.

[TheKentuckian]

63. I don't think he wrong but I have no idea what the response has to do with my post

[DeSwiss]

42. +1

:thumbsup: :)

[briteleaf]

66. POCKET CHANGE - The only change you can count on.

It will have to get much, much worse for the ignorant poor in America to become outraged enough to take America back. We are a Plutocracy. The wealthy rule this country. Rejoice this season when you see the suffering of poverty. This is the pain it will take to convince Americans to take back control of our country from the wealthy. Our politicians are all elected with campaign funds and ads provided secretly by the wealthy and their lobbyists. AT&T has more than 500 lobbyists working just for their interests. That's just one company flexing it's muscle to keep things running in their best interests. You and I have zero lobbyists watching out for our interests and those politicians don't look to us to pay for campaign ads. Lobbyists contribute to both parties. They want to influence whoever wins. Greed is the worst plague of the 21st century. There will have to be an uprising of voters who vote for campaign reform before this country can be reclaimed from being a country of the corporation, by the corporation and for the corporation. Or, there will finally be enough of the outraged poor in America to have a new revolution and "institute new government". Until then, pocket change is the only change we can count on.

[xchrom]

2. recommend

[The Wielding Truth]

4. They want to dismantle the government and chew on the bones.

All those who support corporate greed are saving a place for themselves in karmic payback, or in their little minds, hell. There will never be honor in cheating the generation of our parents, while falsely pretending to be protecting our children. It is a devilish twisted concept used by the lawyers who get paid to be as cutthroat as possible to get more money for their masters.Personally as professionally we all need to step in and stand up for integrity and make it ugly for business not to live by the golden rule.

[samplegirl]

5. Happy to rec.

great post!

[maryf]

6. K&R nt

[Obamanaut]

7. Disregarding the wealthy and what many consider their "fair share", stopping

the money flow down the toilet bowl of multiple wars would help with the deficit issue.

Shutting down the more than 700 military sites of various size worldwide (excluding those in the US) would save a buttload of money in lease payments alone. Not having the civilian payroll at those sites would likewise save a bundle.

Stop being policemen to the world.

[JDPriestly]

65. Obamanaut, you are so right. Close down the military sites

in places like Japan and Germany. We no longer need those huge bases in those countries. They are our allies. If we can't trust those countries, we are sunk anyway. We could at least reduce the size of those bases.

[JVS]

8. The rich will kill everyone unless stopped.

That's what they do.

[TBF]

10. +1 nt

[NNN0LHI]

9. It wasn't all rich folks who were out buying imported and scab built cars when I was laid off

It was my own neighbors doing that and they weren't rich.

I can tell you hundreds of stories just like the ones cited in the article above of my fellow laid off autoworkers going bankrupt and losing their homes over the years from just one factory. And it was average Americans, not all rich, who just kept sticking it further into our backs. And they were proud of it. Hell people post right here how much they love their imported or scab built cars and no one questions them on the wisdom of that decision. Think we all forgot about that?

Now that most of those good paying union jobs are gone and the ones we have left pay 50% less than they did a few years ago thanks to the people who bought that shit there is no money to pay them now.

No one else remembers this happening?

Don

[WinkyDink]

12. Please. You refer to a blip on the financial landscape.

[blindpig]

14. No, but...

it was management representing the stock holders who refused to upgrade and modernize in the face of competition because to do so would depress profits for some quarters. They sacrificed market for some fat quarters, typical capitalist thinking.

[FreakinDJ]

15. I do - and it was the "Trade Negotiators" that betrade you

[B Calm]

16. It makes me sick to see US truck drivers hauling loads of foreign

automobiles or containers loaded with Chinese junk. God Bless the US Truck Driver! (sarcasm)

[JDPriestly]

20. American automakers stuck with making gas guzzlers that ordinary

Americans could no longer afford, gas guzzlers that were making us here in California sick due to our air quality problems.

That is why the American auto industry failed. They refused to make quality, inexpensive, low-mileage vehicles. That was not the fault of the people working the production lines. That was the fault of the management.

[B Calm]

55. When did all this happen? Back in the 1960s and 70s? Actually

for the last 30 years the American auto industry has been very competitive with foreign automobiles in the making of vehicles that run clean and sip fuel.

[tsuki]

17. Me. And the Unions, not the predatory capitalists, corrupt politicians,

and toady press, were blamed for not being competitive. Tariffs were eased and eliminated, taxes were reduced, and the US started the long slide into bankruptcy.

[tpsbmam]

26. Actually, I purposely bought American-made cars for many, many years.

I'd finally had it when my 3rd American made car died at about 50,000 miles. It just wasn't worth the upkeep they had so many problems by then. And this was after 100% following the recommended maintenance, even improving on it at times. I'd no sooner get the thing paid off then it would start costing me big money to keep it working. Pfffftt. I'd had it. I watched my friends driving their Hondas and Toyotas 200,000 miles and more. And they were doing so just by following the recommended maintenance. After the last American made car gave out at about 58,000 miles I'd had it. I bought Honda. I've now had 2 Hondas -- sold the first when it had 100,000 miles on it and was very pleased that it held it's value pretty well. It was in fantastic shape with zero mechanical problems. I now have my second and I doubt I'll ever have to buy another car since I don't drive much anymore.

I understand the quality of American cars has really improved, at least with some manufacturers, over the past x number of years. Great! People will start buying American again I hope. But don't fault those of us who went the other route -- I tried for many years to buy American and I paid dearly for my loyalty.

[NNN0LHI]

35. But you leave out what goods or services you produce so we can do ...

... a comparable critique of the quality of whatever goods or services you provide.

Leaving out that detail makes me doubt the rest of your "stories", about your magic Hondas and Toyotas.

Don

[tpsbmam]

48. I don't provide any goods. That doesn't negate my critique of the cars I

owned. Whether you choose to believe me or not is up to you. It's a complaint heard from many, many people I know so I'm sure it's one you've heard before. There's nothing magic about the Hondas I've owned -- they were just better made. And I hear American cars have greatly improved so I'd certainly consider going back to American cars if I had to. Fortunately, barring some awful accident or something, I won't have to buy any cars.

[NNN0LHI]

56. You avoided the question

The question was what goods or services do you provide? You say you don't provide any goods. That is fine. What service do you provide so we can rate the quality of that?

Don

[tpsbmam]

59. I don't provide any service. Here.

I used to and loved what I did. Satisfied? It doesn't make any difference -- the question totally evades talking about the issue of American made cars.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x7896

[NNN0LHI]

61. Well let me ask you something then

Who is going to pay for the "Improved Medicare For All", that that you promote in your Sig line?

Do you think that the workers who built your imported cars are funding our social programs such as SS, Medicare, and Medicaid? Or do you think they are funding the social programs in their own countries for their own fellow citizens?

Or what about the few American autoworkers we have left who are now making 50% less than they were a few years ago? Who is going to make up for the 50% cut in withheld taxes and the loss of those jobs that used to fund our social programs?

And when their isn't enough money to fund our current social programs here in America any more are you going to still be concerned with obtaining the best quality car you can find then? Even if it means cuts rather than improvements in those social programs for our citizens?

Don

[badtoworse]

51. I completely agree about American cars

I owned a 1980 Citation, a 1983 Ciera, a 1988 T-Bird and a 1996 Chrysler Concorde. All were very expensive to maintain and pretty crappy compared to Japanese cars of the same vintage - basically, they all sucked (except for the T-Bird which I liked despite it being high maintenance). Apologies to my union friends, but the Americsn cars from that vintage were terrible. I've owned two Japanese cars since then and I can't say enough good things about them - do the scheduled maintenance and they'll run forever. Sorry but that is my experience.

I'm ready to give American cars another try because I hear they've gotten better. I am expecting, however, that American car makers have learned that consumers are done giving them a pass for shitty automobiles because they've got American names. I'm thinking of a new Ford Explorer, but I do expect world class quality. Does anyone think I'm being unreasonable?

[NNN0LHI]

57. There is no problem wanting world class quality

As long as you are willing to put yourself under the same scrutiny as you are putting the autoworkers it is completely fair.

But for some reason you didn't state what goods or services you provide so its not possible for us to put you under that same scrutiny. Wonder why that is?

Don

[tpsbmam]

60. Nope. Pretty much where I got on the issue. Make equivalent quality or even

better and I'm happy to go back to American-made. (Again, hope I don't have to.) But should I have to, I'm happy to go American AS LONG AS THE QUALITY IS THERE!

[Lorien]

38. So you're giving the rich a pass then?

They applaud you, I'm sure.

[Lorien]

39. So you're giving the rich a pass then?

They applaud you, I'm sure.

[Joe Fields]

68. Your neighbors were most likely just trying to get the most quality

for their money. And you chide them for it? How about blaming the auto companies themselves, rather than your neighbors. How about recognizing and admitting that better cars are being built outside of the U.S. and are able to be purchased cheaper than American cars? How about recognizing just why American cars are so much more expensive than most foreign made cars?

Yet you want to blame the consumers for your loss of a job.

Two years ago I went to GMAC to finance a new Chevy for me and my family. I was turned down because they told me that I was too risky to loan money to. I went to Ford. They wouldn't finance a new car for me either. I said fuck it, and tried Kia. Kia financed a brand new Rio for me and it's the best car I have ever owned, and that includes the many Fords and Chevys I have owned in the past. What's more, the sticker price for my Kia was slightly over $11,000. But go ahead and blame me, if it makes you feel better. I guess it's my fault that GM and Ford didn't want to do business with me, but Kia did.

[NNN0LHI]

69. About 10% of those neighbors are unemployed themselves now

They really showed us autoworkers didn't they?

Don

[pitohui]

18. most people don't have pensions, i would rather focus on getting social security to all

i have to admit that i'm not all that interested in pensions, which seems to be, these days, a discussion about maintaining the security of gov't employees

let's focus on ALL of us

private pensions are presumed not to be needed for people of my generation or younger (the middle aged and younger people) -- they don't exist for us

the older people already retired now, who collected pensions for at least a time, always have the option of getting soc. security

we never had pensions, and if we lose our investments (IRAs) and the soc. security, we'll have NOTHING

that, to me, is a bigger issue, than a few small town gov't employees losing their pensions -- it's a luxury problem, they're losing something i never had and that no one my age that i know personally other than gov't employees has...

you're not going to get me off my couch to fight for someone else's privilege

if we ALL had pensions, you could expect a fight, but this is an infight between various gov'ts

the rich have killed a lot more people than a few small town gov't employees too proud to admit they need to get on social security because their pension failed...

[JDPriestly]

21. Social Security is the bigger problem, but you must remember that

most of the people who worked for the local and state governments and were eligible for pensions did not pay into Social Security and are not eligible for benefits under it. That is going to be a huge problem as state and local government pension funds are bankrupted by Wall Street. The whole pension fund, 401(K) thing is a big scam.

[Hannah Bell]

23. not just small town employees at risk. state, city too. it's a lot of people.

[cap]

31. how about we ALL have pensions

start with the fact that SOME have pensions now and we should shore up what THEY got... and start persuading them's that have pensions that nobody is going to back their pension payments unless that person has a pension too.

Not a race to the bottom... We are all going to be living longer than what we think. How long are you planning our your pension? till you are 75 years old? That is poor financial planning. There are LOTS of people in retirement communities living till they are 95-100 years old. Go visit a retirement community and get a glimpse of what people are doing today! Projections are that younger people will be living till they are 120 years old. Not joking.

You will not be able to make it on your 401K. Unless you get a pension you are dependent on your kids. (Your real Social Security)

[NNN0LHI]

74. Have you considered becoming unionized and negotiating a pension plan from your employer?

That is how it is normally done.

I will help out any way I can if you decide to unionize on your job. Just ask.

And keep in mind something. All the hard work that it takes to unionize still may not be of direct help to you. It may end up being much more beneficial to the next generation of workers than you personally. But it still helps you. Because one day it will be those workers we are depending on to fund our social programs like SS and Medicare. Its still a win for us even if we don't see the immediate benefit.

Best to think long term on this stuff.

Don

[radhika]

25. and the non-rich are sitting back and ...

letting them get away with it. Helping them get away with it - voting for the kind of folks that promise to do it.

Out hear in California a common refrain is that the REAL enemy of America or the State is those overpaid public employees living in luxury on the taxpayer's dime. I hear them lambasting all our public unions and pensioners and demanding, treating them like con artists. I also never hear these types of complainers (virtually all Repugs) suggesting a fair look at jobs and earnings, benefit structures as a way to reframe the Social Contract for the greater good of the community.

[old mark]

32. K&R- Add to this health insurance companies dropping coverage to the mentally ill and

rising food and fuel costs, along with attacks on Social Security and disability and this is only the beginning. The GOP is determined to kill the working class, and the "New Democrats" don't seem to be interested in helping us-it's not stylish.


mark

[sirthomas66]

33. And what are you going to do about it? My wife and I will help bring

them down no matter what we have to do, even get killed.

[Lorien]

37. He was "too proud" to ask for help because needing help is the worst sin any

American can commit, according to our wealthy overlords who have complete ownership and control of our MSM.

[sarcasmo]

70. Kick,

[DeSwiss]

43. A Big 'Ol K&R!

The reality is that institutional establishments, institutions of codified thought, and institutions of societal influence and power, meaning philosophies, dogmas on one hand and corporations and governments on the other, each have a high propensity to engage in denial, dishonesty, and corruption to maintain self-preservation and self-perpetuation. The result is a continuous culture lag where social progress by way of incorporating new socially-helpful scientific advancements is constantly inhibited. It is like walking through a brick wall as the established power orthodoxies continue to perpetuate themselves for their own interests and comforts.

The profit mechanism creates established orders which constitute the survival and wealth for a few groups of people. The fact is that no matter how socially beneficial new advents may be, they will be viewed in hostility if they threaten an established financially-driven institution. Meaning social progress can be a threat to the establishment. So to put this into a sentence: "Abundance, sustainability and efficiency are the enemies of profit."

Progressive advancement in science and technology which can solve problems of inefficiency and scarcity once and for all, are in effect making the prior establishment's servicing of those issues obsolete. Therefore in a monetary system corporations aren't just in competition with each other, they're in competition with progress itself. That is why social-change is so difficult within a monetary system. In other words, the established monetary system refuses to allow free-flowing change.

Today we use paper proclamations to denote a person's so-called 'rights.' And just like laws, they are culturally biased, artificial concoctions which attempt to solve recurring problems by simply declaring something with words on paper. Rights, in fact, have been invented to protect ourselves from the negative byproducts of the social system itself. And once again instead of seeking a true solution to a problem, we invent these patches by way of paper proclamations in an attempt to resolve them. This does not work. It has never worked. There is really no such thing as an inalienable right outside of the culture in which it is assumed. We are making this up. Therefore liberties need to be inherent in a social system by design not alluded to ambiguously on paper.

We have to understand that government as we know it today, is not in place for the well being of the public, but rather for the perpetuation of their establishment and their power. Just like every other institution within a monetary system. Government is a monetary invention for the sake of economic and social control and its methods are based upon self-preservation, first and foremost. All a government can really do is to create laws to compensate for an inherent lack of integrity within the social order.

In society today the public is essentially kept distracted and uninformed. This is the way that governments maintain control. If you review history, power is maintained through ignorance. ~ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPmHaTirnCc">Peter Joseph

- The sleeper must awaken......

[indepat]

44. Total capitulation to the RW tax agenda is making the RW's wet dream get so much wetter and dreamier

[Optimistic]

47. I am telling you

On Jan 21 2013 When The Tea Party with its 60+ Seats in the Senate, 300+ seats in the House and President Palin and VP Beck take ove the very 1st thing they will do is ELIMINATE Social Security and Medicare, They will tell people who are old, sick and poor that it is their own fault they are not Billionaires and they can all go F*** themselves and die.

The 2nd thing they do is Make the Minimum wage disappear and 3rd is to eliminate Taxes on anyone making over $250.000

The 4th thing they will do is Nuke Iran, North Korea, Cuba, and San Francisco

The 5th Thing they will do is bring back Slavery

The 6th thing they will do is Kill all Gay People

The 7th Thing they will do is Kill all people are Pro-Choice

And then they will kill anyone who speaks Spanish

[Overseas]

67. Here's Mario Cuomo's 1984 speech about the Reaganite "Shining City on the Hill"

and here we are, 27 years later, with so many of the same problems getting worse, and still, with too many following the failed dogma of Supply-Side economics. I had hoped we would leave Reagan and return to Democratic Demand-Side Economics back then, and I'm still hoping today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgIMIEXkcz8&feature=related

[Yo_Mama]

71. Top NY state income tax bracket is 8.97%

It's 7.85% over 200K and 8.97% over 500K. Remember, you're competing against states with NO income tax.

NH 5%. Mass. 5.3%. CT 6.5%. Fl 0%. Raise NY state tax to 15% and those other states will be getting a lot more tax revenue while NY gets less.

And what a tiny southern town has to do with NY state tax rates, I can't imagine.