I think Obama's going to flip on gay marriage

[bluestateguy]

I don't know when it will be, but I see it happening. Obviously, if it's after he leaves office that won't do us a whole lot of good. Bill Clinton, the signer of DOMA, did the same thing.

But I do think the possibility at least exists of Obama either coming out in favor of marriage equality before the election to rally the liberal base, or after the election, if he wins. In the latter scenario, he's be a second term president, never having to face the voters again, with the tailwind of public opinion running in favor of the pro-equality side: young people are overwhelmingly pro-equality and they are getting older and voting more and more.

[RKP5637]

1. I think that might happen too! n/t

[pinto]

2. The demographic is definitely right. And, to echo VP Biden, it's inevitable. (nt)

[xchrom]

3. I live in a gayborhood in the south - not one of my 4 houses

All gay are the least concerned with how Obama twists.

Indifference is the general reaction.

[Truth2Tell]

4. He'll do whatever

he deems most politically expedient. On that you can bank.

[obxhead]

6. Exactly.

If he does flip it will be long after he has any say in the matter.

[MindandSoul]

5. I think he is going to fight to get Civil Unions with complete equal rights for all gay

Marriage is not a "legal" term unless there is a mariage LICENSE. . .which basically means that it is the civil union that really matters, and the "marriage" is a choice, mostly for people who belong to a church.

I am certain that Obama has always favored CIVIL UNIONS for gay people. . .and I believe he thinks that marriage is a religious sacrement, so it should be left to individual churches to decide whether to "bless" a civil union or not.

In fact, in all European countries, religious weddings are ONLY valid if a previously obtained "civil union" is at hand.
I was married 39 years ago. . .on Friday, November 12th, 2001 my fiance and I entered the court house and, after a very short civil ceremony witnessed by 4 people (2 for me, 2 for my new husband), we were declared "married" in the eyes of the State. . .and ALL legal requirement for our CIVIL UNION were fulfilled.

The next day, on Saturday the 13th of we entered a Catholic church with 120 of our closest friends (LOL) and our civil union was "blessed" by a priest. . .we were then officially "married by the Church."

However, the priest had (and still doesn't) have any legal right to "marry" us if we had not first completed the requirements for our civil union.

It sure makes things simpler. . .EVERYONE needs a civil union to be declared legally a couple. . .but ONLY those who chose to do so need to get a religious blessing. . .which has NO legal standing!

[FreeState]

10. Thats the way it already is - Civil Marriage

What you described is already what the law is in the US. One must get a Civil Marriage licince for the government to recognize it - it does not matter one bit what a church believes or does, civil marriage is between a couple and the state.

Civil Unions instead of Civil Marriage for LGBT persons is not acceptable - it stigmatizes a minority and separates them for no good reason at its base and is unconstitutional.

[MindandSoul]

11. How about civil UNION for everyone. . .with marriage as a religious

option that would be given based ONLY on Church policies, but would in no way influence the legality (and the advantage obtained) of civil unions?

I believe that FEDERAL COURTS can impose the legality of civil unions and the effect of civil unions in a couple's life (including, benefits, etc. . .). But I do not believe that any law can force a RELIGIOUS entity to make "bless" an union.

So. . .I guess what I am suggesting is to CLARIFY the roles of "civil unions" (i.e., what needs to be done to get a licence to become a legal couple), and the "marriage ceremonies" which can still occur, (both religious and secular) but would have NO legal bearing.

To accomplish this, the "legal part of performing an union" would need to be taking away from the religious entities and remain in a "judge of the peace" hands.
And. . .there are some Churches who are currently willing to perform religious benedictions to gay couples. . .although they are not recognized by the States. . . So. . .if the States recognized civil unions for ALL. . .the Churches (religious marriage ceremonies) would then be free to act stupid or to go with the flow. . .and their conscience.

Just an idea.

[Zhade]

14. FUCK NO. Who are you to say atheists and gays aren't married?

Religion does not own marriage, and never will.

[MindandSoul]

16. Why is a word so important to anyone? Marriage is just a word

if it doesn't give you all the legal rights and protections that Civil Unions give you.

I am not for or against marriage for ANYONE (I have been married for 39 years), but it is not what gives you all the rights! It is the civil union that matter.

By the way, it is people like you using that kind of ridiculous insults while overreacting that make it so difficult to demonstrate that every gay person is worth of respect.

I am not gay, but I respect and support gay people. . .What I do not respect is people who bite like rabbit dogs when they do not agree with one part of a message, instead of discussing the issue with reasoning and respect.

Your attitude, in my opinion, is feeding the prejudice that some people have (unfairly) towards homosexuality!

[Iggo]

18. One might also ask, Why is it so important to you?

In fact, I'll ask it right now.

Why is that one word so important to you?

[MindandSoul]

19. Well, precisely. . .it is NOT important to me! Although I have been married

for 39 years, it would make absolutely NO difference if we had not gone through the "religious ceremony" part of our wedding, and only had our "civil union!"

Commitment is within a person, within a couple. The Civil union is necessary because of the legality (in terms of taxes, rights of visitation if one of the person is hospitalized, recognizing children, etc. . ., But even that has very little influence on commitment. . .or there wouldn't be so many divorces!

I am not sure what I said that makes you believe it is important to me?

I guess I didn't express my feeling correctly.

I did say, and I will repeat it, that I really don't care one way or another about gay access to "marriage," because I don't think it is the important part of a couple's union.
I believe it is VERY important that gays obtain the same legal right to civil unions that straigth people have. And I am wholeheartedly supporting that fight.

But the WORD marriage is immaterial to me. That's all!

[MindandSoul]

20. That word is NOT important to me! That's the whole point!

Commitment and legal rights to be recognized as a couple and be able enjoy the same advantages than any straight couple is important to me. . . .

[Jamastiene]

23. Because separate but equal is still not equal. End of story. n/t

[Zhade]

13. Marriage is NOT solely a religious institution, and I will not cede it.

I'm an atheist. When I got married at city hall, I was MARRIED, despite not being religious in any way. For a while, anyway. If I marry a guy, I will be MARRIED.

Seperate but equal never is, and we will NOT ever stop demanding the exact same rights and labels as straight marrieds. EVER.

[MindandSoul]

17. So. . .you are attached to the "terminology" not to the meaning of the word

marriage, because the MEANING of the term is an UNION between to people (and I personally don't care whether these two people are gay or straight!).

But if it is what "marriage" gives you. . .the legal recognition and the benefits (and down sides. . .) that legal recognition of two people as a couple mean. . .what does it matter if you call it "marriage" or "union?"

You are free to call a civil union a marriage if you wish. . .what is important in terms of legality. . .and the only thing that lawas can affect are "unions."

I've been married (both legally and in the church) for 39 years. . .and let me tell you that after the "religious" ceremony was complete, the presents opened, and the bills paid. . . I wondered what the difference was!
The difference between a civil union and a marriage is just TERMINOLOGY. . .it doesn't have any true meaning.

And. . .please do not misunderstand me: I personally have NO problem with anyone, gay or straight, being "married!"
I do have issue with making it more difficult to reach a legal victory for gay rights JUST because of "terminology!"

I believe that, if civil unions between gay people became as legal everywhere as civil unions between straight people. . .the term "marriage" would soon be used for EVERYONE! But refusing "civil unions" because some people don't want anything but "marriage" is like throwing the baby away with the bath water!

[defendandprotect]

21. Nor do any of us have to believe in "war" or "military" in order to be against DADT ... !!

Same thing with marriage --

[JackBeck]

24. The problem with the 'civil unions for all' idea

is that while it may grant equality on federal level for same-gender couples, many states will pass legislation granting state-specific rights that only recognize relationships that have a religious marriage ceremony.

[Maru Kitteh]

7. I see that happening as well, and I welcome all voices for marriage equality.

[tinrobot]

8. Might be able to pull it off in his second term if he gets reelected.

[demosincebirth]

9. Thats one of the third rails of potitics. He won't touch it.

[JackBeck]

25. But both he and Biden just did.

They touched it and both are moving the conversation forward. It's quite fascinating to watch how they are positioning themselves, given how Cheney and Clinton have come out in support of marriage equality.

[Eve Senate]

12. If Congress sends him a bill repealing DOMA

he'll sign it. guaranteed. Besides that, there's no much else he can do about marriage, gay, straight or otherwise.

[eridani]

15. That would be good. However we would need a second term and

--solid Dem majorities in Congress.

[Jamastiene]

22. I sure hope you are right.

It's the thought that counts though. Thank you for your well wishes. :)