Parents of homeschooled student try to get book about poor getting raw deal removed from schools

[ck4829]

Some (In reality, it's just two) New Hampshire parents are upset after finding out a schoolbook refers to Jesus as a "Wine-guzzling vagrant and precocious socialist."

The book in question is Nickel and Dimed: On (Not) Getting By in America, written by Barbara Ehrenreich. The account of working minimum-wage jobs was assigned to students at Bedford High School's personal finance class.

Ehrenreich makes this reference to Jesus Christ after attending a tent revival meeting:

"But Jesus makes his appearance here only as a corpse. The living man, the wine guzzling vagrant and precocious socialist is never once mentioned."

Aimee and Dennis Taylor’s son was so upset at the passage in the book about Jesus that the 16-year-old wanted to be taken out of the school. His parents tried to convince him to stay, but he is now being home schooled.

http://www.myfoxboston.com/dpp/news/local/schoolbook-calls-jesus-wine-guzzling-vagrant-and-socialist-20101213

[Bettie]

1. Someone needs to learn to read less literally

I've read that book and the point the author is making is clearly lost on this kid.

[Gormy Cuss]

8. At 16, this kid can't tolerate a difference of opinion and that's sad.

Ehrenreich's pretty snarky but that book is easy reading and appropriate for high school courses.

[Bluerthanblue]

12. he's using this book as a way to get out of school. I cannot believe

that this single book is cause to leave school.

[MH1]

2. I love it when fundies get all twisted up over such nonsense.

I'm assuming of course that wiser heads will prevail in this case.

[ck4829]

3. For right now they have

The school board has said that the book will remain for now, but there will be a meeting soon and those two plan on going.

[Bluerthanblue]

4. Pretty misleading title- the boy became a "homeschooler" only

as an over-reaction by the parents and the kid.

That being said,

I think this is totally ridiculous. If "the parents tried to convince him to stay" and weren't able to, this kid has a LOT more troubling him than the language in the book.

It's an excellent book- and hardly the "drug-promoting" "anti-religious" one they claim it to be. " Anti-hypocrisy" perhaps, but then it seems kind of hypocritical to claim that if the language in the book were made into a movie, their son wouldn't be able to view it without their permission, and yet, they can't "convince him to stay" in school???

what foolishness.
:shrug:

[Warren DeMontague]

5. For the love of god, don't tell them about the hallucinogenic mushrooms.

Where do they think Revelations came from? Talk about a bad trip.

[JVS]

6. I blame Ehrenreich for this. It's unprofessional and not central to the premise of the book to...

denigrate a deity and a religion in the course of writing the book.

[Bluerthanblue]

10. have you read the book?

It isn't a text-book. She comments on many things- shares her views and opinion on many issues that might be percieved as "not central to the premise of the book".

If you haven't read it, I encourage you to.

:hi:

[JVS]

14. I've browsed it.

I found it to be interesting but not well organized. Frank Rich's "One Market Under God" is an example of a similar book with tighter organization. Pick a main point and go with it, put opinions on various issues elsewhere.

[Bluerthanblue]

16. she's a bit snarky, but there is a lot of food for

thought in it.

I think that part of it's value is that she's not talking about this from the outside, but from her actual experiences. It isn't a 'traditional' study of the issue.

I haven't read Rich's book, I'll have to check it out.

thanks-

:hi:

[JVS]

17. The thing is that the snark can be used as a legitimate means to discourage people from reading...

the important stuff she has to say.

A serious book doesn't call Jesus a "wine-guzzling vagrant" just like Fahrenheit 9/11 doesn't take potshots at Islam while discussing the middle east.

[Bluerthanblue]

23. I guess that because I view Jesus as a very different

.."person" than many 'fundamentalist/evangelical' christians do, I don't find the description all that troubling. There are an awful lot of "christians" who denigrate and marginalize people that they choose to see as being unworthy of their compassion and caring. The "Jesus" I know, didn't do that. Many of the same people who are upset by the 'labeling' of Jesus in this way, label others with the same kind of harsh words.

In my opinion the personal...narrative design of her book might make the subject matter more appealing to an average HS student. It isn't cut and dried or all facts.

I don't believe her intent is to smear Jesus- but more to show how he would be judged if seen through the eyes of much of today's self-righteous society. That may be my own perspective effecting my view.

[JVS]

29. Calling someone a "wine guzzling vagrant" is denigrating.

Whether you find it to be accurate or not is really not the issue.

It would be like me insisting that Thomas Jefferson was a slave raping hypocrite. This is absolutely true, but it's still a denigrating and would cause people to reject my work.

[Bluerthanblue]

40. no, it's wouldn't be the same

calling TJ a hypocrite would be accurate, but your 'slave raping' analogy isn't equivalent at all.

Was Jesus 'offended' by being called a friend of "tax-collectors and sinners"? Seems to me, his anger was more about the actions of those who knew what was 'required of them' but chose to play self-righteous.

Hell yes, Jesus drank wine- quite often, according to the scriptures. It wasn't uncommon OR a sign of some moral failure. Calling it "guzzling" ?? sorry, but getting all upset about that seems pretty oversensitive imo. As for being a 'vagrant'- Jesus WAS "homeless"- he and the disciples didn't stay in one place for very long, they didn't "work" at their professions after going out to preach the good news- so, I think you'd be pretty hard pressed to find many "legalistic" christians who wouldn't categorize a similar group of people today as anything BUT 'vagrants' or worse.

People can and have referred to Bill Clinton as a 'charismatic womanizer'. Denigrating? perhaps. But if I let words like that put me off from reading a book, I'd be the loser. The book isn't and WASN'T written as a "text-book" but as one woman's experience and opinions of what it is like to try and LIVE in this country on minimum-wage jobs. If it was a cut and dried exploration of facts, I might not have chosen to read it- as I'm not an economics student.

The class that this was assigned for was "personal finance"- and the instructor said THIS about the book:

In order for students to gain a holistic comprehension of personal finance, the competencies deal with both the core components of managing money and their financial impacts. After deliberation, the committee deemed Nickel and Dimed as “engaging material” requiring a defined alternative for parents who do not want their children reading the book. “Sometimes, the most engaging material is controversial,” Mr. Hagen offered.

Acknowledging Ehrenreich’s extreme bias, Mr. Cannon said, “ are very pronounced, and so I am up front about it with my students. They recognize it right away. Students are willing to share their own beliefs, so there is no absence of an alternative point of view.”

http://bhsunleashed.com/2010/12/01/shortchanged-personal-finance-book-comes-under-fire/

I'm NOT ashamed of the person-hood of Jesus- I am often ashamed of the mantle of "Christ" which is used by somevocal, self-righteous "christ"ians who claim to 'speak' for Jesus, but whose words and actions betray any genuine understanding of him.
That's worse than labeling him in the kinds of terms many 'christ'ians use to marginalize those they choose to see as less worthy (imo). That would be 'sinful'. Matt. 7:23 Matt 12:7 (edit..matt 12..7) Matt 23:1-7 13-33

peace~

[JVS]

45. How was Thomas Jefferson not a slave raper?

Since when is someone who is literally owned by another person in a position of free will necessary to consent?

[Bluerthanblue]

50. it's not the term as much as it is the intent

of the characterization. THIS is what she wrote about Jesus the Christ:

''(At a tent revival) The preaching goes on, interrupted with dutiful "amens." It would be nice if someone would read this sad-eyed crowd the Sermon on the Mount, accompanied by a rousing commentary on income inequality and the need for a hike in the minimum wage. But Jesus makes his appearance here only as a corpse; the living man, the wine-guzzling vagrant and precocious socialist, is never once mentioned, nor anything he ever had to say. Christ crucified rules, and it may be that the true business of modern Christianity is to crucify him again and again so that he can never get a word out of his mouth...I get up to leave...half expecting to find Jesus out there in the dark, gagged and tethered to a tent pole.''
from Nickel and Dimed – Barbara Ehrenreich

You tell me- was she denegrating Jesus? or those who hide behind his name to shame, ignore, justify their mis-treatment of those in society they see as unworthy?

Calling TJ a slave raping hypocrite would only be done to discredit him. What BE said about Jesus was said to humanize him, and point out the hypocricy of those who USE him for their own end.

[Dems2002]

24. People are too easily offended by things they don't agree with

Everything and anything can be used as a reason NOT to listen to something someone doesn't want to hear. As a Christian I am not at all offended by her characterization of Jesus Christ and would use it as a point of discussion.

People are offended by those they disagree with breathing. Stand up and fight for truth even if it comes with a helping a snark.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[msanthrope]

44. The Bible calls Jesus a 'wine-guzzling vagrant.....'

The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, 'Look at him! A glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!' Luke 7: 33.

[montanto]

48. Hmph, I wonder why no response to this??

Interesting.

[Bluerthanblue]

51. there is no response. It's truth.

:hi:

[JVS]

56. That person is on ignore

[Gormy Cuss]

11. That section felt out of place to me when I read the book.

Even if her point was to show that low income people waste time and money on religion her example wasn't a very good illustration of it.

[trotsky]

19. Blasphemy laws could help prevent this.

Then no one will get upset if their religion isn't spoken of in the most glowing praise possible. Let's do it!

[JVS]

20. Ehrenreich's decision to denigrate some people's religion does narrow the venues for which the...

book is appropriate. Why should students have their religion denigrated in their textbooks?

[trotsky]

21. Totally with you. We need blasphemy laws to prevent this.

No one should ever have to see a single negative or even snarky thing about their religion. Totally. And we should stone the offenders.

[Bluerthanblue]

26. learning how to deal with feeling insulted is a pretty important

skill imo.

here's a link to the school's info about the issue.

http://bhsunleashed.com/2010/12/01/shortchanged-personal-finance-book-comes-under-fire/

....snip....

Mr. Jon Cannon, also a Personal Finance teacher, hopes his students will have accomplished specific goals by the time they complete the class. “Students need the skills necessary to be successful, such as how to budget their money, but also need to gain an understanding of what life is going to be like. The book makes the connection between the two.”

In order for students to gain a holistic comprehension of personal finance, the competencies deal with both the core components of managing money and their financial impacts. After deliberation, the committee deemed Nickel and Dimed as “engaging material” requiring a defined alternative for parents who do not want their children reading the book. “Sometimes, the most engaging material is controversial,” Mr. Hagen offered.

Acknowledging Ehrenreich’s extreme bias, Mr. Cannon said, “ are very pronounced, and so I am up front about it with my students. They recognize it right away. Students are willing to share their own beliefs, so there is no absence of an alternative point of view.”

.....

[trotsky]

27. Being unable to deal with those feelings is what gives us such wonderful things as...

the "war on Christmas" whiners, the teabaggers, the anti-abortion zealots, and so on and so on.

It's really sad when we see the same attitudes on the left.

[Goblinmonger]

37. And atheists shouldn't have to read anything with biblical symbolism

So that means that nobody reads anything then. You win!

[Warren DeMontague]

22. Unfortunately, some peoples' interpetation of that diety has become central to political life

in our country.

As soon as the Jesus freaks stop trying to foist their religion on the rest of us via civic society, like they've been doing for the past 30-odd years, then differing interpretations of "Jesus" and what "he" stood for won't be relevant to civic, political discussion in this country.

[ThomCat]

25. You blame her because some 16 years old fanatic

misuses her writing as an excuse so he can stay home from school? :wtf:

Are you serious?

[JVS]

28. I blame her for using language that makes her book unsuitable for a school textbook.

[ThomCat]

31. You blame her?

She didn't write a text book. She wrote a book.

If the language isn't suitable, talk to the school that chose to use that particular book in their classes, not the author. They could have chosen actual text books. Instead, they deliberately chose something that isn't a text book.

Or better yet, talk to the kid and his parents who are going to get so bent out of shape over one line in a book that they'll demand that their opinion overrule all the teachers, administrator, other kids, and other parents who didn't have a problem with that book. That's where the real problem is. If they really don't like the book (and he's obviously already read it) use that as an opportunity in the class. If there is a paper due, write about what is wrong with the book for the papers. If there is a debate, debate the content and perspective in the book.

Should every author be be blamed if they use language that makes their books unsuitable for use in a classroom, even if they never intend for classrooms to be their target audiences?

Are classrooms now the mandatory standard for all writers? All books must be written in such a way so that they can be used as reading material in a high school?

:wtf:

1. I don't think that blaming the author is right or productive when people want to censure speech. Censuring authors is never a good idea no matter how you approach it or justify it.

2. I don't think that discussions about religion should be sheltered, reserved or privileged any more or less than any other topic. Expressions of faith do not deserve any more or less respect than chemistry or literature, and certainly should never be justification for censuring. If anyone's faith is so fragile or so dependent upon special public treatment to withstand someone else's choice of words then it is clearly very weak faith to begin with.

[trotsky]

32. +1000

:thumbsup:

[knitter4democracy]

34. Whoa. Um, wait--was that ever her plan as a writer?

Should every single writer think about that as s/he writes, how something could make the book unusable as a school textbook? That's just bizarre to me, and I'm an English teacher.

It's teachers and administrators who make the decisions about which books to use, and part of what we look at is whether the book's language and tone are appropriate for our students. I work in an alternative high school, and we can get away with more when it comes to language, etc., but I have trouble imagining how that book would be considered inappropriate, even with that section (which a teacher could easily not assign in the nightly reading assignment list).

Not all books chosen to be used in the classroom were written for the classroom, and that's a good thing.

[NashVegas]

47. Do You Have It On Good Authority She Set Out to Write a School Text?

[msanthrope]

43. Jesus Fucking Christ. Blasphemy is a victimless crime. n/t

[NashVegas]

46. WTF? How About You Put Your Own Head On the Block

People who put their work in front of the public are risk-takers by nature. In exchange for risking public flogging, they get to do things their own way - at least the important ones.

[montanto]

52. Since you haven't read the book, you've missed the point.

Ehnrenreich isn't denigrating a deity or a religion. She's asking where christian charity went--that sense of support, and community, and shared concern for the less fortunate that one might expect "christians" in a "christian" society to display. Its ironic. The bible describes jesus as having those qualities (and being a wine drinker too) but many christians believe that the wealthy are preferred by god and that the poor and struggling are somehow less worthy, are the more filthy and irredeemable sinners--which seems to go against jesus's teachings. FWIW I know about equal numbers of christians and atheists/agnostics. If I had to tell which was which blindfolded, as it were, just by considering their "christian" acts, I would take the atheists/agnostics for christians in nearly every case.

[Iris]

7. Why even bother with an education?

Especially if this is the way you react to ideas that differ from your own.

[Kalyke]

9. ...but He was!

He drank wine.
"For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine, and
you say, 'He has a demon.' The Son of Man came eating and drinking,
and you say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax
collectors and "sinners."'" (Luke 7:33-34)


Vagrant: "A person without a settled home or regular work who wanders from place to place and lives by begging." Let's see... Jesus wandered in the desert for 40 days. He and the disciples wandered throughout Israel and Palestine to preach their faith and they took lodgings and nourishment donated by followers (begged).

Socialist:
"Jesus looked at him and loved him. 'One thing you lack,' he said. 'Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.' At this the man's face fell. He went away sad, because he had great wealth Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, 'How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God?' The disciples were amazed at his words. But Jesus said again, 'Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God? It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God'." (Mark Chapter 10:21-25 21)

[ipaint]

33. Now you went and spoiled their authoritarian buzz.

The context in the book was a revival meeting that a working poor person goes to for support and encouragement and ends up hearing all about judgement and death. The message of the jesus who was considered in his time to be a wine drinking vagrant for challenging the status quo on behalf of people just like this working poor women was never mentioned.

These people aren't upset about their precious jesus, they are upset this book validates both the degrading life experiences of the working poor in this country and highlights where a major portion of the responsibility for such continued suffering really lies, right at their doorstep.

[hobbit709]

38. Don't forget the "socialist" part.

Fed the hungry, healed the sick, chased the banksters out of the temple.

[fascisthunter]

13. keep your fanatical fingers off our education system

you right wing fascist freaks.

[barbtries]

15. that's such BS

if he was that upset about it he should have introduced a discussion in the classroom.

did they really say "some" instead of reporting that it was just the one kid's parents?

[felix_numinous]

18. Zero tolerance for differing viewpoints

--or at the very least a sense of humor!?!! That was actually very funny, I know a lot of christians that would laugh at that one... but only those who get the irony.

[musette_sf]

30. Wow, these two rubes' heads would have exploded

over one of the books in MY required high school reading list at age 16:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Autobiography_of_Malcolm_X

[surrealAmerican]

35. Wouldn't a more rational parent view this as ...

... a sign that their child was in need of a therapist? What kind of 16-year-old is so disturbed by reading a few words he disagrees with that he refuses to ever go back to school?

[hobbit709]

39. We only have the parents' word about the kid being disturbed

I think the parents had the cow and conveyed it to the kid.

[Blue_Tires]

41. lol...freedom-loving family in libertarian New Hampshire

once again imposes their morality on everybody else...

[Mopar151]

55. Hold up, hoss

They may be trying, but they haven't succeeded yet - nor are they likely to. And we ain't all that libertarian, comes right down to it.

[Bluerthanblue]

42. Jesus was called "a glutton, drunkard, friend of tax-collectors & sinners"

by the religious-right of his day. (luke 7:34)
:shrug:

What's the problem with an author, NOT claiming to be religious- characterizing him is much milder terms?

[COLGATE4]

49. There ain't nothin' rong with hom skoolin'

[Bluerthanblue]

53. no, there isn't. This family only began homeschooling AFTER

they got upset with the book.

Predjuce and bigotry are ugly no matter where they rear their heads.

Judge the individual- not the group.

thanks

[ck4829]

54. There are plenty of progressive homeschoolers

I remember I ran a story on here on which a homeschooled student and her family were absolutely infuriated with the fact that one of her science books were filled with religious references on the book's chapters on evolution.