How is it that the following authors' books are best sellers on the NYT list?

[LuckyLib]

Bush, Palin, O'Reilly, and Glen Beck. Of all the good books in the world to read, people actually buy and read such drivel?

:thumbsdown: :puke:

[EFerrari]

1. Bulk buys from right wing organizations that then hand them out.

It's a big scam and the NYTs should be ashamed of itself had it any shame.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. In the recent past they have put asterisks on them

to indicate this. Regnery Press was up in arms over that policy.

[truedelphi]

11. Ain't it the truth. n/t

[Cal33]

45. Don't forget the huge numbers of brain-washed people, who

really believe every word people like Glenn Beck say. They do exist, and
shouldn't be ignored. Although ignorant, they do have the power of the
vote.

[PBS Poll-435]

2. 30% of the people that buy that crap can't even read

But buying that sh*t makes them feel like they are part of a movement!

[oneshooter]

6. Do you have proof to back up your statement? n/t

[Statistical]

7. 78% of statistics are made up on the spot. n/t

[PBS Poll-435]

10. Half the time

:hi:

[patrice]

26. lol

[PBS Poll-435]

8. Personal experience

I live in Texas.

[patrice]

13. Some somewhat dated statistics, which you can ignore if you can make a case for why

reading comprehension would have improved markedly in the last 8-9 years.

The point being, if a book is anything more complex than 7th grade comprehension, they're either not reading it or not understanding what they DO read.

On edit: http://www.informatics-review.com/FAQ/reading.html

[immoderate]

36. Palin's writing would be incomprehensible to a seventh grader...

or anyone else for that matter. Readers should have as high a level as possible. But writers should shoot for clarity. Seventh grade allows for some rigorous writing. The novels of Hemingway and Jules Verne, for instance, can be understood by a fifth grader. MS Word has tools to estimate reading level. I tell people to shoot for a sixth grade if they want people to read what they wrote. The highest reading grade levels belong to tracts like organic chemistry texts and insurance contracts. Not fun reading.

Palin's ramblings, even if they can be punctuated, would convolute off the scale.

--imm

[patrice]

42. Like her quote the other day: should the government tell me what *I* can eat, then switching to

Should it be the *parents* or government.

I bet we'd see a high incidence of such incoherence in her communications.

Lots of people are not troubled by it, because they say to themselves "I understand what she means", but within the context of more complex communications about more complex subjects, the potential for confusion and error is extremely high with such logical dis-connects. That potential for error and confusion also puts the consumers of communication at a BIG disadvantage relative to outcomes and maybe that's one of the reasons some people DON'T act as though it is significant.

[mkultra]

16. why do you even care?

[BlueJazz]

21. Who else would buy them??

[RandomThoughts]

3. Not sure if they are good books, havn't read them.

I can comfortably rest on the concept that they have the information to correct the beer and travel issue, and have thought it not important to do.

From that I do not have to read their book. Although I would not choose to burn it either.

[patrice]

5. No alternative co-relates in the market + Saturation marketing. I was in a Borders this week.

Could NOT believe the dominance of the hate Obama stuff amongst all offerings, books, CDs, magazines . . . A REAL turn-off. I mentioned the imbalance to two clerks.

I am boycotting from now on.

[Statistical]

9. You are boycotting a bookstore because they DON'T censor books you disagree with.

Well that is a new one.

[wtmusic]

12. Or censoring books patrice does agree with. nt

[patrice]

18. What is unclear about the fact that I'd like to see a little balance on the shelves?

Where did I say they couldn't/shouldn't market those books? Please be specific in your Reply.

[patrice]

19. Pretty selective comprehension that and well that ISN'T "a new one."

[treestar]

20. Borders is a private company and could "censor" by choosing

what to sell. It apparently chooses to censor out left wing books, not right wing ones.

[patrice]

25. Hello? Hello? Please substantiate the negative assertion you made of me, or I will Alert. nt

[Statistical]

30. You a threatening with me an alert? OH NOES! (Alert away but don't talk about it) n/t

[patrice]

43. Actually, I'd rather that you just answer my question. I'd like to know how I "confused" you & if

you can't tell me, then I'll just have to conclude that the likelihood that you actually were confused is significantly less than you might say it was if it were even remotely possible to make that case.

[madinmaryland]

29. It is her/his choice as to whether to patronize a business that sells trash

like that. Just as many people here will not patronize businesses that have the Fox Noise Channel on. I assume you that you would consider that censorship, also? Yes??

[JDPriestly]

14. Our local Barnes & Noble is in a relatively prosperous area.

Nevertheless, it was evident that while the rack holding Bush's book had been placed prominently in the front of the store, that rack had been pushed a side way out of view. Obviously, no one was interested in it. Didn't look like many if any copies had actually been sold.

Conservatives give copies to each other as gifts and then never read them.

[tridim]

15. My Mom got the Bush book for xmas..

I said, "Ugh, what more could you possibly want to know about that man that you don't already know?"

Reading that book is torture, which makes sense I guess. I would have been embarrassed just to buy it.

[SheilaT]

17. I become reluctant to buy books

from stores that carry a lot of the right-wing drivel. There's an excellent independent bookstore in the Kansas City area, which sponsors a few too many right-wingers sometimes. I do want to support the independents -- we also have one here in Santa Fe and they tend to run very strongly towards liberal and progressive writers.

I only buy something from Border's when I can use a discount coupon.

[Warpy]

33. I was in Costco two weeks ago

and went by the book tables. Most of the books had been well picked over so there wasn't much to choose from, although I did find some good fluff to read.

There were large piles of right wing screeds. Large piles. On otherwise picked over tables.

I took that as a really good sign. While I'm sure Costco simply returns the unsold rubbish to the publisher, maybe they'll get sick of doing it eventually and order less of the garbage and more of the stuff that sells.

FWIW, they're a blue company that treats their workers well, so I won't be boycotting them.

[Donnachaidh]

40. BJ's warehouse also has tons of the RW crapola -- never seems to sell much

I did annoy the crap out of one bookseller in my area by commenting out loud about the amount of RW garbage (and I did use that exact word) on display at the front of the store. All three clerks got that deer in the headlights look when they heard me.

I then went on to tell them that I first came in to their store to buy a book my son required for school, but I would really have to think twice about coming back to a store that pushed rightwing nonsense so blatantly. I don't know if my tantrum did any good, but I do hope that perhaps they will think twice before they set up yet another Glenn Beck display. :shrug:

[matt819]

22. Maybe it's time for the Times to reconsider that asterisk

If the bulk buys skew the bestseller lists, why not just eliminate those books from the lists. Including them demeans what might otherwise be termed "real" bestsellers. These might not be particularly good books or great books, but they are books that people are buying one at a time. I may think these readers aren't particularly discering - to wit, Five People you Meet in Heaven. Really? - but at least the books are being purchased by one reader at a time. That means something. The bulk buys render any such evaluation meaningless. So, why not just remove them from the list?

[WhiteTara]

23. I think gop organizations buy them in quantity

to make it look like these books are readable.

[Cleita]

24. When I'm in a bookstore, I spine all the right wing stuff

and put the lefty books face up on the shelf so that they are the ones the book browsers see first. Try it the next time you are in one of those stores. I believe the righties do the same thing, which is why you see their books so prominently displayed.

[Hawkeye-X]

27. Best thing to do is collect all the right-wing coverlets

and hide them in very obscure area. Then turn the books backwards.

THey won't even buy it if it's not shiny.

[Raine]

35. I came across Palin & Beck's books at the market

on their bookshelves and hide them all behind other books. :evilgrin:

[jwirr]

28. For one thing they and their followers buy them up in balk to make

it look like it is a hot book.

[harun]

31. Telling people what they want to hear sells. Truth, not so much.

[apocalypsehow]

32. Despite all the (unsubstantiated) nonsense about "bulk buys," the simple fact is that there is a

large market for the written works by those authors.

Those public figures appeal to a certain segment of our population, and that segment is both large and have a good deal of disposable income.

Like or not, people simply like to read those books. Attempts to explain the phenomenon away by ascribing malevolent or fraudulent motives to either those who publish them or those that purchase them is simply wishful thinking.

[emilyg]

50. Thank you for an intelligent message.

[blondeatlast]

61. What;'s so intelligent about uninformed, inexperienced, and wrong?

I tend to call it anything but intelligent.

[blondeatlast]

60. As an ex-bookstore and library book buyer (and started out as a bookseller), you are mistaken.

I've seen the action from the selling side of the counter and as a retail buyer. Bulk sales are the vast majority of the distribution. The NYT used to dagger those books on the list for that very reason until a prominent RW publisher (Regnery) raised a stink about it.

Ask someone in the book biz about that--those books are given away and many are given, unread, to libraries, who already have too many copies to deal with. It's ugly and corrupt--but if it makes you feel better to think so, don't let actual facts and an insider's experience sway your opinion.

[east texas lib]

34. The free market is a harsh mistress...

You could always write a book with a divergent viewpoint and join in the competition.

[Doctor_J]

38. But if the right-wing chains place her books against the far wall

while all of the liars' books are right inside the door, that competition isn't fair, is it? The poster can't "join the competition" unless the retailers let her. If you think the "market" is really "free", you need to turn off Fox News and hate radio and try to ingest the truth for a change.

[east texas lib]

39. "Right wing chains" ?

You got it bad, Yoko.

[apocalypsehow]

41. Even in that dubious scenario you outline ("right-wing chains"? Puh-leeze *rollseyes*), the solution

is not the censorship of those author's books, as has been suggested up and down this thread. The answer is that you go buy a bookstore, and turn it into a nationwide "left-wing chain." Then you can place progressive author's books wherever you want them, and in as prodigious amounts as you wish. Hell, you don't even have to carry books by Beck, Palin, or Billo, if you don't want to.

And you know what? If there's a market for what you're peddling, you'll get rich and help out the progressive cause, all at the same time!

It's a lot more work than snarking about "the truth" on a message board, to be sure, but I guarantee you it'd be much, much, much more rewarding. How about it? Gonna give it a try? :shrug:

[Doctor_J]

44. Holy shit. The corporations MAKE the market. It's not something organic

Surely you can't be deluded enough to believe that there is more of a market for 25-30 right-wing screeds than for any liberal books. But that's the impression you get walking into one of your "market-driven" chains.

I suppose you also buy that 1000 or so radio stations run right-wing lies & hate 24/7 while fewer than 10 run moderate (Hartman, Press) or left (Malloy) because the people prefer a 100:1 ratio of ultra-right opinion to all the others combined.

I am discouraged that so many self-identifying Dems believe Limpballs.

[apocalypsehow]

46. And right on cue, the irrelevant reply coupled with the pedestrian personal attack.

Textbook.

[Doctor_J]

51. Thankfully you have given up trying to support your ridiculous assertion

that the marketplace of ideas is "free". Please don't try using it again in another thread, now that you've come to terms with the fact it's nonsense.

[east texas lib]

56. Go with what you know. Let the "wingers" (left or right) control the bookstores...

You can keep trying to control the thoughts and posts here at DU. Evidently you consider yourself eminently qualified to do so.

[apocalypsehow]

57. Predictably, you have been unable to refute a single "assertion" I have made thus far, and have now

resorted to the laughable extremity of issuing orders over the internets:

"Please don't try using it again in another thread"

:rofl:

That's some funny shit, there. And the last shriek on the retreat for a replier apparently unable to post coherent refutations to irrefutable facts.

[Statistical]

49. Write an ebook then. Amazon accepts small publishers. n/t

[Doctor_J]

53. and this relates to the subject of wingers controlling the mass market...

how? :shrug:

[Statistical]

54. Amazon is a mass market. It shows how nearly impossible it is to control "the market".

The more you try to control one channel the more alternate channels open up.

Speaking more generally I think ebooks are the greatest invention for making content more diverse and more Democratic. With unlimited shelf space, no storage costs, and no per unit costs it completely changes the "market" and makes control virtually impossible.

[apocalypsehow]

58. For starters, "wingers" do not control the "mass market" in publishing houses: liberals do.

All things being equal, most publishing houses, nearly every single one of them controlled by those of a progressive bent as they are, would much prefer to move as much product by liberal authors as they possibly can. But they, too, operate in this free market that you seem to regard as mythical - in plain contradiction to the actual facts that most of the rest of the world, liberal, moderate, and "winger" alike, recognizes as being actual reality.

Unfortunately, those kinds of books, while they do sell, do not tend to do as well as those by the authors whom you wish to censor, including those listed in the opening of this OP. We come back again to irrefutable facts you are, apparently, for whatever reason, ill-equipped to deal with, and I again forward my suggestion:

Start your own chain of bookstores, and turn it into a financial success. Cater to progressive and liberal works, and use whatever, uhhhhh, errrrr, ummmm, talent you might have to make a market for those works.

Then get back to us.

Capiche? :shrug:

[WingDinger]

37. Be glad, it means a lot of Republicans out of a job.

You wont see Obama's auto while he is still employed.

[2Design]

47. media buys them to report on and promote

[jtuck004]

48. Costco. n/t

[undeterred]

52. Lots of pictures?

[PufPuf23]

55. I shop at Costco about 5X per year but buy alot.

There is a two hour drive to the closest and a three hour drive to the one I use most because of doctor and CPA and one bank and former residence. I make large purchases of basics as I live way in the boons.

Thre last time in Costco was December 1 and the lack of books in stock, especially considering the holidays, was the smallest I have ever seen at Costco. The closest I have to a rightwing bio books were the Monica Lwinsky and Bill Clinton bios that were gifts. I did buy and read Dreams of my Father (from Amazon) during the primaries of 2008.

What we are fed by globalist corporate media is the attempt of creation of reality that is not reality nor for the benefit of most people.

I mostly read older literature and sacred texts or currrent anti-establishment books or the scientifically technical.

I feel of a generation that was well-educated and brain-washed but is now marginalized and demeaned. I will die before USAians under age 40 have a hope of the opportunities and idealism of my youth unless they go darkside and lie to themselves. So sad.

[Doctor_J]

59. Here comes an excellent test of the theory that marketing makes the book,

rather than the book making its own market.

http://palinbabygate.blogspot.com/

Walk into a bookstore chain in 3 weeks and see if your entire field of vision is blanketed with this book and Hartmann's new title, the way it is with the right-wing screeds today.