As per Gibbs words, what are the 'entitlements' to reform?

[tekisui]

What do you consider entitlements?

More importantly, what entitlement spending is the President willing to 'reform'?

I always considered the word entitlement a right-wing frame.

[mmonk]

1. They mean social security, medicare, and medicaid.

The rich need to be fed more.

[madrchsod]

2. who knows what the hell he`s going to "reform".

at this point in time i really do`t give a shit what he has to say.

[mdmc]

3. roads, schools, medical care, homeless shelters, police protection

all the usual suspects..

[SteppingRazor]

4. I honestly don't get the whole "entitlement is a right-wing word" thing.

This isn't the first time I've seen the notion proposed here at DU, but the idea of entitlements in the USA came out of the FDR administration. Basically, we all have rights. Entitlements are laws making sure that our rights are provided for. So, medicare as an entitlement means implicitly that people have the right to health care -- a very liberal notion indeed. So, quite the opposite of entitlements being a right-wing framing of the idea, they're actually a really liberal idea. Social security and medicare being entitlements mean that people have the right to health care and to be provided for in retirement.

[tekisui]

6. Entitlement may have started as a noble concept.

It's usage today, though, is mostly by the right. It is used to suggest that people think they are entitled to a government hand-out. And the logical next verse of the song is to reform (cut) the entitlements, because the are too expensive and going to people who did nothing to earn it.

You may be historically accurate in the usage of the word, but, like so many other words, it has been co-opted by the right. The more modern, and more relevant, interpretation is that of the right's frame--people taking advantage of the system.

[Saturday]

14. Exactly. nt

[whathehell]

10. I understand what you are saying...

and I certainly agree with you about the "good" meaning of entitlement.

The problem is that the Reich Wing seems to use it as a synonym for "privilidge" as opposed to "earning" it.

Something in the sense of "What?..You think you're 'entitled' to _____, with the subtext "No one is 'entitled' to anything...They have to WORK for it.

The fact is, we DID and DO work for social security and medicare...We contribute to it and "our" taxes pay for it...Just as they pay for more dubvious things like
wars, weaponry and republican congress people's salaries.

[SteppingRazor]

12. Absolutely ... and that should be the response to the right's moronic confusion...

of entitlement in the legislative sense and entitlement in the psychological "sense of entitlement" use of the word. We should not be the ones apologizing because they're too stupid to know the difference.

[Jackpine Radical]

16. It's not stupidity. It's genius.

This is another term they've taken and twisted into its opposite and then stabbed us with it.

If the goddam Left were as good at this kind of thing, "liberal" wouldn't be a term of opprobrium in the public mind.

[whathehell]

21. Yes...I have often felt like shouting back

"Yes, as a matter of fact we ARE entititled!

[LuvNewcastle]

5. Of course it's a right wing frame, but

I agree with the concept. I think people are entitled to food, clothing, and shelter as well as adequate health care. Any government that doesn't provide these basic things for it's vulnerable citizens is a worthless government in my opinion.

[tekisui]

8. I agree. At the risk of this thread breaking down into a symantic focused

use of the word, I would like to hear from those who support entitlement reform spell out what should be reformed and how.

[Jackpine Radical]

18. I actually think that the semantic digression was quite useful.

It was also quite appropriate in the context of this thread. We have to pay attention to language as the most powerful tool in the battle for the minds of the uncommitted. And your contributions to the discussion were both valuable and appreciated.

[Warpy]

7. Anything that goes to Michelle Bachmann

She's getting $250,000 a year in ag subsidies. She's also got gold plated health care and a fat retirement program in Congress. All of those things should be on the chopping block. We the people simply cannot afford them.

The one thing the incoming Congress will never touch is the one thing that needs to be touched--hard, the military. As the wars start to wind down, the Pentagon should start to face a 10% per year funding reduction that will continue until we're spending what other countries spend. That will force them to start making hard decisions about what is truly important, bases all over the world or defense of this country; aircraft carriers or body armor, armored military vehicles and adequate supply; overpriced "outsourced" services or providing them themselves the way they used to.

Unfortunately, the Pentagon is sacred ground to Republicans. They will never ask that building to share the pain the rest of us are feeling.

[tekisui]

9. Thanks for the thought out response.

The question, though, is whether those that will make the decisions and compromises will even consider the entitlement you suggested.

We know the pentagon is a sacred cow (to both parties) and will not be the target of true savings. I fear that what will actually end up on the chopping block are those services and programs that our poorest and most vulnerable depend on. Further, I doubt that any reforms will be to their betterment.

[Jackpine Radical]

19. Not just Republicans.

Plenty of Democrats seem committed to advancing and preserving the interests of the Empire, and the military is above all else a tool of the empire, needed to maintain the flow of oil in our direction in the face of growing demands and threats from the East.

[sad sally]

34. Unfortunately, the one big manufacturing base left in the USofA is making most

of the weapons, bullets and bombs the military uses. So, the argument is to keep war going so these Americans can keep working. There's also $$$ to be had by selling last years weaponry to Mexico drug lords, so-called rouge nations and other enemies who will eventually use them against us.

And instead of spending billions of R&D $$ on ideas to save the Earth, the military spends billions on researching and developing even bigger and better weapons of mass destruction that can destroy every living thing.

[Raine]

11. RW acts like entitlement is something you get as a free handout but

people have paid into those programs with their hard earned cash and IMO are therefore totally "entitled" to them.

[xchrom]

13. Here's where we have to discuss the word 'reform' -

If 'reform' means that the gov. Delivers the programs better
And more effectively then - certainly the left doesn't have
Any qualms about 'reform'.

But if by by 'reform' we mean programs that are like Welfare to Work or
HCR or Payroll Tax Holidays, etc - 'reform' that shifts
Money to those already wealthy to enhance their power
And position -- then those on the left have a problem.

Which brings me back to my persistent problem - moderates --
They are politicians and 'supporters' who really
Support the right wing desire to destroy the energy of gov.
To provide for it's citizens. They just want to do 'progressively'.

[tekisui]

22. Great points. Not only does the definition of entitlement matter,

but what reform means matters as well. Is reform based on a goal of reducing the deficit primarily or is it based on reducing inefficiencies to better benefit the recipients?

[Overseas]

15. He must be talking about cutting out the war profiteering.

As discussed in w8lifting lady's thread about the 25 worst Iraq war profiteers

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x72404#72683


Yours truly,

Pollyanna X

[Duer 157099]

17. So then why don't we fight back by calling the right to own guns an entitlement?

That should snap their little brains into the correct frame of reference.

[kctim]

31. Seriously?

[kelly1mm]

32. Because many progressives support all civil rights, and decide not

to pick and choose. Other progressives seem to be OK with limiting lots of civil rights, especially the right to free speech and the right to keep and bare arms. Which camp are you in?

[msongs]

20. worst entitlement = US MIlitary and it's war profiteer corporate masters nt

[tekisui]

23. Damn straight.

[pa28]

24. The White House and Congress are using the Simpson report as a guide.

So, Medicare, Medicaid and SS.

The cuts outlined in that document are relatively minor but open the door for a "bloodbath" ,as Simpson called it, when the debt ceiling must be lifted.

Since we appear to have ceded most of the ground covered in the report already I'm guessing the Republicans are going to use the recommendations as a starting point to demand even deeper cuts.

I'd like to think we can still get in front of the issue but it looks like consensus has already firmed up. There are going to be cuts and Obama is going to own them.

:(

[egoclothes]

25. Obama will own them because he will support them. Simple as that.

[Angry Dragon]

26. Let's start with getting rid of congressional pensions

and then get rid of congressional health care
and then start cutting their pay
they are not entitled to those things

[pacalo]

27. All I can say is, HOW DARE THEY talk about making cuts to the vulnerable

after approving a generous tax-cut deal for the people who have more money than they know what to do with.

Those making these take-from-the-poor-to-give-to-the-rich decisions are morally twisted.

STOP THE DAMN MILITARY SPENDING NOW!!!

[Little Star]

28. Calling SS and Medicare entitlements is a right wing frame.......

However, I think that tax cuts for the wealthy and bailing out the banksters are really the entitlements.

[tekisui]

29. Unfortunately, the wealthy, the banks and the wars have already been

codified as sacrosanct and untouchable. Stick it to the poor.

[tekisui]

30. I have yet to hear form someone who supports this.

I want to know, specifically, what entitlement programs and what reforms to those programs you would support and what you think Obama will support.

[Hello_Kitty]

35. Just wait. As soon as the President signals support for particular entitlement cuts.

DU will be full of people supporting whatever he wants to do. Expect lots of posts full of anxious concern about the debt and our fiscal health. And blue links. Lots of blue links.

[tekisui]

38. How right you are.

So many don't know where they stand or what they support until they are told.

[vssmith]

33. Our Social Security trust fund has a $2.5 trillion surplus

[Cleita]

36. Entitlements is a word used by the conservatives to

describe programs that are actually government run insurance programs. No one is objecting to privately run insurance like life insurance and therein lies the hypocrisy.

[FlyByNight]

37. The Pentagon gets about half of discretionary spending

If that isn't an "entitlement", then I don't know what is.

Social Security doesn't contribute to the debt/deficits. Obama's (moral) deficit commission was a cruel and unfunny joke. Alan Simpson and Erskine Bowles as the co-chairs? Evidently, Obama signaled what he wanted done (or willing to do). I fear he'll stand aside and let the Rs do the dirty work. I hope I'm wrong.

:scared:

[Bluebear]

39. White House? Answers?