Get ready for more pain.. Gas going back to $5 a gallon

[lib2DaBone]

Financial speculation is back BIG TIME in the oil market.

The Wall Street Journal on Dec 20th reports that hedge funds and money managers are again using oil as speculation. October 2008 saw gasoline go to $5 a gallon on $145 a barrel oil, and we are headed back to that point.

If you pay $5 a gallon at the pump..you pay $1 to Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley for speculation.

This is a 16% increase in oil in the last 6 months.

[pacalo]

1. ...

:grr:

[Statistical]

2. You sure you don't mean $4. Did gas get to $5 in the US?

[lib2DaBone]

5. I think it got to $4.60 a gallon.. somewhere in that area....

[mike_c]

7. I believe it topped out at about $4.80+ here in northern california...

...and it is currently between $3.45 and $3.55 most places on the North Coast, while elsewhere in the country folks gnash their teeth as gasoline approaches $3.00 a gallon. We haven't seen prices that low since last summer.

[Statistical]

9. Ouch. All I can say is ouch because I have been watching the pump inch closer to $3.

[LibDemAlways]

87. I paid $3.57 today in Southern Cal. It's been in that range for

quite a while.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

34. tthey were testing us

When the gas prices kept going up towards $5 a gallon, they were testing us to see how high they could raise the price before consumption would drop.

Bastards.

[Mattylock]

82. Exactamundo!!

[Liberal_in_LA]

131. yes, went above $4 a couple of years ago (for southern CA)

[atomic-fly]

11. heating oil goes up too....really screws people over. nt

[elocs]

16. Yes, heating oil is not regulated and it goes up with market prices for oil.

It will be mostly lower income people who will be severely hurt by high fuel oil prices.

[proud2BlibKansan]

26. Look at that drop in 2008

Bastards.

[bullwinkle428]

49. Steep drop in fall of 2006 as well; i.e. campaign season! Tell me there's

no collusion at work here!

[Lucky Luciano]

63. Please - in 2008, the economic apocalypse was ongoing. The demand for oil was

totally crushed.

[Richard D]

65. I saw it for over $5

In rural areas of California and Arizona.

[taught_me_patience]

3. Tax cuts for everybody

and no spending cuts. Did you think all that was free? Naw... it's paid for by devaluing our currency and, thus, higher oil prices.

[glinda]

23. Every-time we get a break we also get increases in our bills or

living expenses such as gas or food.

[taught_me_patience]

36. Because you didn't get a break

If you cut taxes but government spending grows faster than inflation, then you've simply pushed the tax burden to the future. If the governemtn has no intention of ever paying for the "break", which is the situation now, then you get inflation.

[Hannah Bell]

4. & that's what the upper crust is doing with their tax cuts -- taking a flyer on commodities

so the price to you is jacked up.

thanks, suckers.

[skepticscott]

73. Or the government seems to be giving

money back to the middle class in the form of a tax "holiday" while at the same time sending a signal to the oil companies that people can now absorb higher gas prices without feeling so squeezed. The end result is that the US government borrows more money and it ultimately ends up in the hands of big corporations.

[Hawkowl]

109. Absolutely!!!

That is why tax cuts for the rich are INSANE. They have too much money. Yes, there is something possible as too much money. What we have is the wealthy creating asset inflation. Instead of going to job creation and consumption, they are simply bidding up the prices of commondities and stocks. No value created with a potential for an INFINITE amount of pain inflicted on the world as a whole.

Way to go Obama!!

[SpiralHawk]

6. "Whooopeeee." - RepubliCronies (R)

"Smirk." - RepubliCronies (R)

[corkhead]

8. useless pos speculators. A boot on the throat of the economy

[Arctic Dave]

10. I told my parents this yesterday.

They are paying $3.70 a gallon right now. I said they will be paying 4.50 within a year and they looked at me like I pooped in the punch bowl.

Enjoy all those gas guzzler you bought when gas was cheap and said to yourselves that gas would never go up again. :sarcasm:

[mindwalker_i]

12. GOOD!!

Does it suck? Yup. Is it going to hurt people? Yup! And I'm sorry for that to a certain extent. But there are electric or hybrid cars coming out next year and $5 gas will not only give them a boost, but prompt auto makers to make more of them. Things don't change unless there's a significant amount of pain, but the long-term problems with gas and oil don't cause pain now, so this is what's needed.

Maybe a little more speculator-caused pain will help us rethink the whole wall street idea too.

[elocs]

14. Oh, it more than hurts people. Many will have to make the choice between

keeping warm or eating. I'm sure you're sorry for that but since it likely will not impact your life to that extent then your sorrow doesn't mean much, does it? It's easy to call for others to suffer such pain when you won't have to face it.

[mindwalker_i]

19. Oh, it'll hurt me alright

Like I said, it will suck and will suck more for poor people. That sucks! But what's the alternative? We keep going at $3.40 (I'm in California) until we run out? Will we be able to breathe then? More to the point, what will replace it with to keep our infrastructure, such as it is, going? How will we get food into cities so people don't starve? To sit and say, well gee whiz, that's unpleasant, it hurts poor people more, etc. is all true, but using that as an excuse to keep on doing the same thing isn't a solution.

[taught_me_patience]

38. Of course the number one selling car in America is the F150

A truck that averages about 15mpg. How quickly people forget...

[fatbuckel]

71. People that buy F150s don`t forget, they never knew.

[Kalyke]

75. I'd wager to bet that some of the tradesmen who buy them because

they need them knew and haven't forgotten.

Or, are you one of those liberals who don't consider plumbing, construction, home improvement, etc., a "real" profession?

A. It's one of the few professions left that can't be outsourced.
B. It's one of the few professions left that doesn't require a traditional college degree (training, yes, degree, no).
C. A tough-duty truck is necessary for those professions and;
D. If liberals would stop dumping everyone in either a left or right pile based on exterior qualities (what they do for a living, in this case), then those Republicans who ARE in construction, etc., might have reason to move left. They'd feel more welcomed.

[kath]

92. It's not just tradesman that make it the #1 selling vehicle. Out here in Okie-hell plenty of people

who have office jobs drive them (and big-ass SUVs) because it makes them feel more manly. Or something. They wear cowboy hats for the same reason.

[WestSeattle2]

105. Out here we call those big-ass SUVs "small penis trucks"...the

owners, almost always male, are obviously overcompensating for shortcomings elsewhere.

[Kalyke]

134. To both you and "kath," I said "SOME."

Granted, I know no one who owns an F-150 who isn't a tradesman, but you may.

[RaleighNCDUer]

97. And those professions account for about 15% of the F150s sold.

The rest go to assholes who break into tears if their tires get dusty.

"D. If liberals would stop dumping everyone in either a left or right pile based on exterior qualities..." Just what the fuck do you think YOU are doing, making it a blanket statement about liberals?

By the way "I'd wager to bet" is a fucking redundancy - learn your own language, and people might take you more seriously.

[frylock]

90. kinda hard to load a ladder and toolbox on a prius..

you want to strap a 4x8 sheet of plywood to the roof of a smartcar?

[taught_me_patience]

101. How often do you need to load a ladder? Once a lifetime?

The number of times I've loaded a toolbox... hundreds. My Honda Accord was plenty fine.
The number of times I've loaded an engine hoist... two. I just rented a u-haul truck for $20.

[frylock]

103. as a roofer, i loaded my ladder twice a day..

once in the morning when i would get up and drive to the jobsite, and again at the end of the day.

[taught_me_patience]

110. So you're in a profession that represents .0001% of the population

It's understandable that you use a ladder 2x/day. The 99.9999% rest of the population need a ladder about twice in their entire life... if that.

[frylock]

114. ever load a motorcycle into the back of your accord?

i know that people who ride dirt bikes only represent maybe .0000001% of the population.

[quakerboy]

118. Be fair

If your focus is getting your dirtbike to the right area to ride it, then $5 gas is probably not your largest concern.

Alternately a small trailer attached to a hitch on a PT cruiser will carry a dirt bike. Or quite a few other things. Plus it can be left at home, and you can park the car in a normal parking spot without screwing other drivers.

[Joe Fields]

39. This is the kind of pain it will take to make people rethink many things.

I've gotten to the point where I am actually amused at how stupid people have been. I realized a long time ago that it is going to take something like five dollar a gallon gasoline to wake this stupid fucking nation up. People in this country, I have witnessed, need to feel a lot of pain before direct action is taken. We have become too goddamned complacent and lazy.

If my attitude seems callous to you, then too fucking bad. This is the reality of life in the U.S.

[bobbolink]

69. Yeah, "too fucking bad" for poor people. That's the Democratic way, now.

Too fucking bad right back.

[Joe Fields]

121. Yeah too fucking bad. And you think I'm not poor?

So, okay, I'm not homeless, but I'm not stupid either, unlike most Americans, poor, middle class or upper class, who cannot get it wrapped around their thick heads that we are being bled dry by the corporations that actually run this country, and that, until we rise up and fight back, get just exactly what we deserve. It will take a lot more pain for that to happen, and I say good. The sooner the better, so that we can get on with it.

Yeah, too fucking bad.

When are you going to get the picture Bobbolink?

[mindwalker_i]

123. This issue is actually kind of outside political alignment...

High gas prices will hurt a lot of people, democratic, republican, independent, etc. And yeah, it sucks. But without that pain there is NO reason to change. How long have we had these things? A century or so? Burning fossil fuels does damage but a lot of that will come much further down the road, so people are disinclined to deal with it now, while it's easier to do. The high gas prices of 2008 sparked a certain amount of interest in electric cars and now, there are a few coming out on the market. They're expensive, but with increased availability and use, the price will drop. Higher demand will cause further development as well.

Look, if a big-ass segment of the population wants a cheap electric car, that's a big-ass market. If the price is low enough relative to the cost of keeping and fueling a gas car, people will find a way to buy it if they come out ahead in the long run. Unfortunately I don't think Priuses will do that - they're good if one is buying a new car anyway, but replacing a working car isn't too likely to happen.

A few months ago there was a story about a guy who lived outside a city where the people there didn't get fire protection because that area didn't pay the taxes for where the fire department was. They could buy into it, but this guy didn't because he wanted to save money. He did this for a while and didn't pay into it, because hey, no pain. Then his place burned down. Pain! He's a lot more likely to pay into it now (and frankly, you want services that are paid by taxes, then fucking pay your taxes. You buy into society that protects you or you don't, but deal with your choices). With gas prices high, there's pain and a lot more pressure to change away from oil. Saying "well gosh, that hurts" or even that it hurts poor people more and isn't fair - which I agree with - doesn't change the fact that it's necessary.

[etherealtruth]

133. The affluent won't even have to modify their lifestyles/choices

the "middle class" will make modifications, the "working class" will have to make sacrifices (some very significant) ...the working poor will spend more getting to work than their jobs often pay ... hell they'd be better off in work houses/ prisons .... food, shelter and all those silly comforts that they will face giving up.

[Statistical]

15. Fuel consumption is relatively inelastic.

Take guy w/ average 30mpg vehicle. He commutes 12K miles per year. That is 400 gallons of gasoline per year consumed.

At $3 per gallon it is $1200, at $4 per gallon it is $1600, at $5 per gallon it is $2000.
So we are talking about a net increase of $400 per $1 price increase over $3.

Now consider that the vehicle costs him $4K a year in principle & interest, plus another $1000 a year in insurance. Plus $500 a year in maintenance, fees, tags, etc. So total cost of ownership is more like $6,700 annually at $3 per gallon and $7,500 annually at $4 per gallon. To someone making $50K, $60K, $70K a year the difference is negligble. Hell the Bush tax cuts expiring for middle class would cost him more.

High gas prices hurt the poor. They are forced to continue consumption and it simply acts as a tax on their disposable income. It actually does that to everyone but the poor have less money, fuel is a larger % of income, and they are the ones with least access to high mpg vehicles.

[djp2]

70. Who only drives 12,000 miles a year?

What a bunch of CROCK, which has been FOISTED on Americans for years. Yes, if you take ALL licensed drivers and divide by miles driven, you MIGHT get that number. But that is not PER HOUSEHOLD!

Its fooey that car dealers use in leases (12000 miles per year). We would be in the poor house with over-mileage if we leased.

A 25 mile commute (one-way) 5 days a week 50 weeks a year =12,500.
That doesn't include weekends and trips after work, nor vacations.

That certainly isn't Southern California!! Lets use REAL numbers of cost PER HOUSEHOLD.


Our 2 car family (3 drivers) does over 50,000 miles a year, with work only 15 miles away. We have two 2007 cars with well over 100,000 miles on each. The Doctor is 45 miles one way, elderly parents 45 and 90 miles one way, daughter in college 90 miles one way. One trip to each per week would be 540 miles (which was often multiplied by more than 1 visit to each, with our 15 year-old daughter in college, not driving. If we brought her home for a weekend it was 360 miles, return.)

[Powdered Toast Man]

91. My vehicle is 14 years old...

And I have 60,000 miles on it. Two of us drive it. My situation may not be the norm, but neither is yours. 200,000 miles in 3 years?

[IDemo]

115. My '93 has 56,000 miles

It should be good for another 100 years or so..

[djp2]

127. YES

Bought Sept 2006 for one (2007 model) 133,000 miles in 51 months (2600 miles per month of ownership); and July 2007 124,000 miles in 42 months for the other (2950 miles per month of ownership). Granted we drove the first one much more than that until we bought the second, but we did have another car at that time which took much of the slack, which isn't included.

Both my wife and I work 15 miles from home. That's 60 miles round trip for both together. Yes, we are on the go a lot, but distances are great. My daughter's high school (closest one) was 12 miles one way, twice a day, 48 miles. (8640 miles per year for just those trips). Closest supermarket was 10 miles round trip (new one only 6 miles round trip).

Once our daughter started UCLA at age of 15 she came home most weekends (we would go and pick her up, no mass transit available, no car allowed for on campus housing + she was too young for most of time) entailing 360 miles per weekend. Graduated at age 18 in 3 years at UCLA, 33 weekends a year= 36,000 miles.

My parents 90 miles round trip once per week about 5000 miles per year, and wife's parents double that at 180 miles, say 10,000 miles per year.

[WestSeattle2]

104. 6,500 +/- miles per year in Seattle. n/t

[proud2BlibKansan]

27. I bought a hybrid and am saving a bundle on gas

But I don't cheer when the price of gas goes up.

[Ghost in the Machine]

29. Will you buy me a new car? I'm on disability and can't afford one..

I am quite happy with my 97 jeep grand cherokee, with its V8, heavy duty towing package and fulltime 4 wheel drive. Back during the summer, I drove from Knoxville to Augusta, Ga on 3/4ths of a tank od fuel, though. It averaged out right at 22mpg, with the cruise control set on 75. I can't complain at all with that. Plus, I paid cash for the jeep over 4 years ago, so no payments and only have to keep liability insurance on it.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

33. You still have to pay for electricity for your car.

And in Texas, it's probably generated from natural gas. In other states, it may be generated from coal or nuclear power.

[freebrew]

66. The poor can't afford the new cars..

so the electric/hybrids are out of their reach.
Those that must drive to work or have to drive to look for work are just SOL.
They'll be forced to buy cheaper cars that use LOTS of fuel, need LOTS of maintenance, etc.

Been there already, haven't we?

Carlin was right right we are being fucked up the ass by Dems and Pigs alike.

[sasquuatch55]

83. And that cash for clunkers BS took a lot of good vehicles..............

off the market that the poor could afford. Who benefited from that wet dream?

[JDPriestly]

76. The poor will have to buy gas with money they would otherwise use

to feed their children and put shoes on the children's feet. Most people buy used cars and drive them until they can no longer be driven. Raising the gas prices will punish the poorest among us. The rich, will as usual, feel no pain anyway because they can afford gas whatever it costs or buy the new electrics and hybrids if that is what they prefer.

[valerief]

80. Wish it could be done during the warm months, though. It gets very cold in New England during winter

[redwitch]

86. Gee too bad I can't afford to buy a new hybrid or electric car.

I take it you can? The empathy, it's underwhelming.

[gratuitous]

13. Thank God it didn't pass!

During the lame duck session of Congress, there was some talk of raising the federal gas tax for the first time in 17 years. But now we get to see gas prices jump a buck a gallon, and not one penny will go toward better and safer roads. But some fatcat oil executives will be able to buy some really swell stuff.

By the way, if the federal gas taxed jumped 50%, how much more would you pay for a 12 gallon fill-up?

A. More than $10
B. $7.82
C. $3.15
D. $1.08

No peeking!

[some guy]

102. D

[former9thward]

17. Back to $5 a gallon? Where do you live?

I have never even paid $4 a gallon.

[mike_c]

20. in northern california gasoline reached just under $5 during the last...

...major price rise. I remember paying $4.85 a gallon and wondering when it would hit $5. Strictly speaking, I suppose it never did, at least not in my area, but still-- I'm sure you'll agree that the economic impact of increasing gasoline prices will be devastating whether the price rises to the high $4 or to $5 a gallon, at least in those communities where it does go that high.

[former9thward]

21. I certainly agree with that.

[Ter]

40. Wow that's high

Driving in Brooklyn once at that time the highest I ever saw it was $4.35, and that was well above the nation's average.

[dana_b]

89. part of it is what they do to the gas here

to reduce emissions

http://www.arb.ca.gov/fuels/gasoline/gasoline.htm

The other fact is that the cost of living here is so high (like N.Y.) so combine the two issues and the price per gallon goes up even more in California.

[lib2DaBone]

24. You are fortunate. It peaked here at just under $4.90 a gallon....

[unkachuck]

18. "...16% increase in oil in the last 6 months."

....I thought there was no inflation this year? Where's our SS COLA? Where's our $250, Nancy?

"...hedge funds and money managers are again using oil as speculation."

....so, Washington's fed the rich and fucked the poor....baby, you can kiss this pathetic recovery good-bye....0% financing on new vehicles, gas prices skyrocketing, four pounds of sugar sold at five pound prices speaks volumes about the real state of this economy....

....but what else could we expect coming from our corrupt political leaders and government, we're the American chumps....I'm afraid, "The hope's still dead, and the dream shall never live."

[endless october]

22. it peaked at about $4.24 in my area.

great way to kill the economy.

we need to be energy independent. we should be pursuing that as a moonshot initiative.

[lib2DaBone]

25. This whole thing is caused by Banksters speculating and putting it on the Natl Credit Card.

[taught_me_patience]

37. No man, it's caused by huge deficits and zero interest rate policy by the FED n/t

[TalkingDog]

28. Related: Oil prices wiping out stimulus effect

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x74083

[MadHound]

30. This isn't due to just speculation,

A good part of this has to do with our debt, which causes a weak dollar, which means oil exporting countries are starting to go off the petrodollar, which means we're screwed and get to pay more at the pump.

[FirstLight]

31. well, then i just give the fuck up

already over $3.35 here currently, $20 isn't even half a tank and i have a Honda.

Have to drive back & forth every day (living rurally, that's 10 miles roundtrip) to the 'job One stop' to check in & out for welfare and their forced jobsearch bullshit.
now i won't have the gas by the end of the month,
...and they will sanction me down to $500 a month for me & 3 kids to live on, because that's how they roll

and any job more than 10 miles away won't be worth the gas to commute to ..at $10 an hour (part time at best).. even if i *could* drive over the mountain to work every day, eve in i actually got a fucking job, which the only prospect i got right now is 20 miles away in markleeville...

for all the people who say thet the poor are just whining... they can figure this one out for me, kay?


(oh and before some smart ass says it's my fault for living rurally... moving is not the majic bullet, either)

[Jester Messiah]

32. Makes me want to emulate a friend of mine...

He rides his bike to work, 20 miles a day. He's got a two-year streak going, too. For some reason, he is also able to eat whatever the hell he wants without gaining any weight... hmm. Too bad if I tried it I'd probably explode my heart. :-/

[Foo Fighter]

35. I do the same.

30 miles round trip. It's a great way to stay in shape. If you think your heart can't take it (not sure what your heath is like), just start out with shorter rides and gradually work up to whatever distance your commute is.

I used to ride in the winter too (and I'm in the northern climes) but the last couple of years my asthma has kicked me off the bike in the cold weather so I take the bus instead. My car spends a LOT more time in my garage than it does on the roads.

[lfairban]

53. You know you are an ebiker when . . .

. . . someone starts complaining about the price of gas, and you ask, "What is it getting up to nowadays?"

I started biking 3.5 miles to work because it was faster than driving or taking the bus. That was 10 years ago. My wife uses the Prius to drive to work, but my daughter uses a bike mostly, in combination with the bus.

[crikkett]

55. how true!

I'm a fellow pedestrian

[Gemini Cat]

81. What about the people that can't bike or get a Prius ?

What do you tell them?

[Spider Jerusalem]

41. This is not due to speculation.

That's an easy answer for people who don't understand economics, but speculation is NOT driving price increases in the oil market. What IS driving those price increases, then? The answer is quite simple: a combination of a) peak oil, b) demand growth from emerging markets in China and India, and c) demand growth in developed countries as the economy recovers.

A few basic facts: US demand for oil is at a level one million barrels a day higher than this time last year. Demand in Europe is also significantly higher thanks to abnormally cold weather. There is a finite amount of oil that can be produced; this amount is not much more than the aggregate total of global demand at this point. When there is no slack in the market due to excess production capacity, demand-driven price increases are much sharper than when there IS slack in the market. This is what happens when you have market competition for a limited resource. It's easy for people to blame on speculators, because most people don't understand that there simply isn't enough oil to sustain demand without price increases. They don't understand because it's a relatively unprecedented situation; Americans have ALWAYS had cheap fuel compared to most of the rest of the world, and the supply pressures of increased demand and finite supply only really started becoming evident around 2007 (and even after that the demand destruction caused by the worst recession in decades led to lower prices, for a while).

This is the future of oil; the global production peak came in 2006, by the way, at a level of 70 million barrels a day (which is about 15 million barrels a day below current global demand levels, let alone future ones), and it's not likely to increase again.

See also Paul Krugman on the issue, here: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/27/opinion/27krugman.html

[WinkyDink]

47. Certainly, Europeans have paid more----when they drive. But their public transportation systems are

SUPERB, leaving no little village unserved.

[Spider Jerusalem]

50. Who said anything about Europeans paying more?

That totally misses the point of what I said. (Which is not about relative fuel prices in the US and the rest of the world but about the absolute price per barrel of oil on the world market.)

[WinkyDink]

108. "Americans have ALWAYS had cheap fuel compared to most of the rest of the world"

I believe you wrote that.

[Spider Jerusalem]

111. Since when is Europe "the rest of the world"?

FYI: one US gallon of unleaded will set you back more than five bucks at present exchange rates in Australia. And more than US$6 a gallon in Japan. And about US$4 a gallon in Canada. Historically only major oil-producing countries (in the Americas, Mexico and Venezuela, elsewhere, the Persian Gulf states) have had lower prices, and those lower prices have been supported by subsidy. (And again you manage to entirely miss the point.)

[djp2]

128. In England its

over $7.00 per gallon (converting pounds and litres)

[Lorien]

58. And Obama's grand plans for a high speed magLev National rail system WPA

type project have disappeared down the memory hole.

[kath]

124. Yeah, he was all over that stuff. But NOW??????

[eridani]

64. You are talking about the equivalent of large ocean swells

Those trends, of course, can't be stopped. Speculation occurs at the froth and foam level, and it certainly can be stopped.

[Spider Jerusalem]

99. It can? How?

Oil is traded on an international market; the largest international exchange is in London. The US doesn't produce even one-half of the oil needed to meet domestic demand; how do you propose to restrain speculation in a commodity which is mostly produced outside the US, mostly traded outside the US, and of which non-US countries use 75% of the total? Good luck with that, really.

[eridani]

125. Some oil folks fessed up

http://www.larson.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=761&Itemid=18

While we understand that global supply and demand issues as well as the weak U.S. dollar play a role in determining price - the fact remains that current supply and demand conditions do not add up to current market price increases. Speculation, in most cases by individuals that will never take a barrel of oil into inventory, is placing a distorted premium on the price of oil. This is evident by the nearly $240 billion growth in oil future investments since 2000.

On March 4, 2008, Guy Caruso, Administrator of the Energy Information Administration testified before the Senate that speculation was currently adding as much as 10 percent to the price of oil, a relatively conservative estimate compared to some from the private sector. As far back as March 15, 2005, Exxon Mobile CEO Lee Raymond was quoted in the New York Times saying "We are in the mode where the fundamentals of supply and demand really don't drive the price." Three years later, during questioning in April 2008 before the House Select Committee on Energy Independence and Global Warming, Stephen Simon of Exxon Mobil cited speculation as one of the major causes of the exorbitant oil and gas prices we've seen, while executives from Shell, BP, Chevron, and ConocoPhillips agreed.

[jimlup]

42. I'd be happier to see gas at $6

Thing is we can't keep dumping CO2 into the atmosphere. $6 more truly reflects the cost. Yes, I know it will hurt. Maybe people could stop driving SUV's by themselves and stuff.

[stuntcat]

44. yah. govt subsidies keep the price down anyway

and that comes out of people's taxes. If people paid the real price of it (the extraction, the future..) the price would jump and people would learn to use less. As it is, we're going to have a crash someday.. & the cost of everything will go up, consumers will not be prepared.

[lfairban]

54. IIRC . . .

. . . gasoline subsidies amount to about $17B/yr, mostly to support discovery.

That is not enough to drop the price much.

[jimlup]

96. Yep, agreed

But the government could take steps now to help mitigate this but the current trend as I'm sure you know is not positive. The damn republicans taking the house is really bad for any attempts at helping consumers.

[TBF]

46. Agree in theory but we don't have the infrastructure to back it up -

we need high speed trains at least on both coasts (up and down both coasts to start with - midwest and Texas could use some too). Then maybe we can start weaning folks. I'm for it - I hate driving.

[jimlup]

95. But something has to happen to force the issue. I know it will hurt a lot but...

What else do we do about the serious CO2 problem?

[redwitch]

88. It will more than hurt.

It will be the death knell for my job, the remains of my fragile security, my home. I don't drive an SUV, I am not thoughtless. But your post is. Clearly you will be just fine with $6. Me and mine will not. I am getting really fed up with the attitude of some on here.
Perhaps you need to be visited by the ghosts of Christmas past, present and future. I am literally terrified most of the time, I can't sleep as it is. Being homeless is really going to suck, ya know? Maybe you don't.

[jimlup]

94. I'm sorry for your situation and I agree that $6 gas would be a problem

But the CO2 problem is more serious than most know. Far more serious in fact.

I hope your situation works out. I honestly do but don't project your fear on me. I'm not to blame for your problems. My opinion on gas prices is based on my understanding of the CO2 problem and the real cost of gasoline.

Good luck, I do feel for you and hope your situation improves. If we had a reasonable government, being homeless wouldn't be an issue. I know we don't and it is. So whatever we can do to mitigate the situation for the small folks like us, sure, I'm in favor of that.

[Gemini Cat]

120. +1

They just don't get it and they don't want to, no matter how obvious it is.

The working poor, the unemployed, the disabled, the elderly, and those with-out decent public transportation will suffer the most.

[delightfulstar]

43. Nearly $3 a gallon down the street from me...

I'm happy that I live close to public transportation. And a new bike is sounding like a good idea right now.

I remember it being well over $3+ a gallon in Chicago when I lived there several years ago (and not just in the Loop).

[woo me with science]

45. No COLA this year.

No need for it, really.

[LynneSin]

48. No pain for me, I live 2 miles from work and I have car that gets decent gas mileage

I fill the tank about once a month.

[newtothegame]

51. Yes, anything you buy through a middleman and not directly from the source will have speculation.

[DeadEyeDyck]

116. You going to drive up to a well and say

"Give me a couple of barrells of that crude, Dude" and take it home and refine it in the back-yard? Each stage of ownership contributes to getting it into your tank. I roughed-necked for a summer outside of Odessa. Hardest work I ever did but I learned the industry and now I am studying to be a geologist.

[dmosh42]

52. Yeah, the ffree market at work! With shiploads at anchor waiting...

[and-justice-for-all]

56. Market speculation should be illegal...nt

[Kalyke]

57. Thank God I can work from home.

My company - during the last bought of $4 and $5 a gallon gasoline - commonly allowed employees to work from home to save on gasoline, particularly those of us who live further than 30 minutes away (many of us don't live that far away in miles, but traffic makes the drive longer).

[Initech]

59. It is way past time to make the oil industry pay taxes.

Until we do, this shit wont stop.

[NashVegas]

60. Fucking Christ.

Okay, I give in. Legalize dope. Let them trade that til the cows come home.

[wildbilln864]

62. great idea!

hemp seed oil replacing diesel fuel would be a boon to the economy.

[upi402]

61. Awww... Obama will save us

:sarcasm:

[bobburgster]

67. Sick of the money hungry hedgers that.....

care about nothing but getting richer. To hell with the masses trying to scrape out a living. That mindset set is unconscionable as far as I'm concerned.

[KansDem]

68. Nationalize oil. In fact, nationalize all energy concerns...

We bailed these sons-of-bitches out and now they're doing this to us?

Fuck 'em!!!

[dotymed]

72. Americans are manipulated....not here

:sarcasm:

[GreenTea]

74. Oil corporations will now do their part to wreck the economy so to blame Obama & Dems!

For outrageous profits and to do their part to help bring in flood of lying elitist hateful greedy corporate republicans into office in 2012 bought & paid for by the rich & corporations to destroy workers middle-class pensions and unions so the wealthy can have it all!

[Initech]

77. The speculators all need to die in a fire.

[valerief]

78. This means the wealthy will need more tax cuts. I guess we'd better pony up for them. nt

[Mike 03]

84. No. The wealthy don't drive. NT

[Kurovski]

107. Thank Zeus that jet fuel is still remarkably affordable.

A lot of bang for the buck.

[Hannah Bell]

135. no, someone drives them. they still use more gas per capita than 99% of the population.

they drive more, they drive bigger cars, they fly more, & they consume more

and they speculate on oil futures more

and they impose austerity on the peasants more

[earth mom]

79. Yay for hope and change! NOT!

:grr:

[MadBadger]

93. I'm gonna use your post to showcase the DUer who blames Obama for EVERYTHING

[Broderick]

85. Might have to close down if it does

Gas in the ground at a small station can eat up cash flow, from 16000 to 32000 just going from 2.00 to 4.00. Not many folks, on the small end of business have that kind of cash laying around to keep up. Sucks to be honest, at the business level. Many small folks will fold again, like in the last fast climb. Volume goes down, related sales go down, drive offs go up, and whether you sell at 2.00 per gallon, or 5.00 per gallon you still make pennies on a gallon. Credit card fees keep going up. Insurance keeps going up. Taxes on gross sales receipts obviously goes up too depending on the state and locale and it just keeps getting worse for the small guy to make it under these conditions. Just sayin...... :(

[totodeinhere]

98. Your OP is just a guess, not a fact.

Anyone who trades commodities knows that it is impossible to accurately predict where commodities prices are going. If you could do that you could be a millionaire. So I think that your OP is unnecessary alarmism.

[Lex]

112. "your OP is unnecessary alarmism"

But that's how it's done here for the most part.

[high density]

100. If there's anything to get our economy roaring again

it's handing over more of our ever-shrinking income to the oil companies. :sarcasm:

[quaker bill]

106. Tuned up my bicycle today

I need to get in shape anyway. It will only be 5 miles to work by the time the peak hits, I think I can shape up by then.

[Danmel]

117. Don't know where you live

But we have 2 feet of snow on the ground and it gets dark early this time of year- can't really cycle to work- 5 a gallon would really hurt.

[quaker bill]

119. We never have snow

Well, more precisely we did have a trace once that did not last until morning.

$5 a gallon would hurt me as well, which is one of the reasons to tune up the bike. I wasn't offering a sermon or suggesting a course of action for you.

Protesting will not fix this, but perhaps if I burn a little less, it will be slightly cheaper for you, perhaps not, but I will at least obtain the benefit of some exercise...

Most of the predictions I have read suggest something more along the lines of $4.00 a gallon. I guess we will see which one was correct.

[Danmel]

122. I appreciate that

I try to conserve too- in fact tomorrow we are picking up our new prius which gets 51 mph. It is replacing a car that got 20. My car gets about 23, which doesn't thrill me but I can't replace it now. When the kids are grown, I want to move back into the city if we can afford it- I grew up in NYC, didn't learn to drive until I was 30 & still don't live having to drive everywhere. Just can't afford private school and the schools just aren't as good. And I feel badly about that but at leafy the burb I live in is ethnically and racially diverse.

[quaker bill]

130. I drive the smallest thing that works

for the occasion. We have a small fleet of Prius (Priui) at the office that I use when driving is necessary. Currently I drive every day, but the office is moving closer to home next year, the real estate bubble made downtown office leases suddenly quite affordable.

I will not be able to ride everyday, as some days a suit and tie are required, and some days in August are rather toasty. But I should be able to do it 50+ percent, given I get in reasonably good shape. I live in town, not so much out of eco-conciousness, but because the public schools in this area are quite good. Now that the kids have all graduated, I could move, in theory, but not in this market. I am right side up in a house I can afford to make payments on, I see no need to change that.

[leeroysphitz]

113. Don't worry. They'll never get away with it. Not with a soshlist in the White House.

[eridani]

126. Krugman commentary

http://www.readersupportednews.org/off-site-opinion-section/83-83/4400-the-finite-world

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/27/opinion/27krugman.html?_r=1

Oil is back above $90 a barrel. Copper and cotton have hit record highs. Wheat and corn prices are way up. Over all, world commodity prices have risen by a quarter in the past six months.

Is it speculation run amok? Is it the result of excessive money creation, a harbinger of runaway inflation just around the corner? No and no.

What the commodity markets are telling us is that we’re living in a finite world, in which the rapid growth of emerging economies is placing pressure on limited supplies of raw materials, pushing up their prices. And America is, for the most part, just a bystander in this story.

Some background: The last time the prices of oil and other commodities were this high, two and a half years ago, many commentators dismissed the price spike as an aberration driven by speculators. And they claimed vindication when commodity prices plunged in the second half of 2008.

But that price collapse coincided with a severe global recession, which led to a sharp fall in demand for raw materials. The big test would come when the world economy recovered. Would raw materials once again become expensive?

Well, it still feels like a recession in America. But thanks to growth in developing nations, world industrial production recently passed its previous peak — and, sure enough, commodity prices are surging again.

This doesn’t necessarily mean that speculation played no role in 2007-2008. Nor should we reject the notion that speculation is playing some role in current prices; for example, who is that mystery investor who has bought up much of the world’s copper supply? But the fact that world economic recovery has also brought a recovery in commodity prices strongly suggests that recent price fluctuations mainly reflect fundamental factors.

[Raine]

129. well someone has to make up for the super rich

getting their tax break, money has to come from somewhere. :sarcasm:

[onenote]

132. Just out of curiousity, how quickly do we need to get ready for $5 gas

Do you think its going to hit $5 in the next three months? Six months? Year? Two years? Five years?

Because a prediction that gas will get to $5 a gallon without a time frame is hardly something one can "get ready" for.

By the way, while the analysts who follow the oil market are divided on what will happen to prices over the next year. Some see it dropping back into the low 80s, high 70s per barrel of crude, while other see it getting to around $100 and levelling off. I've yet to see a credible forecast of crude oil getting back to the $145 level in the next year.