What is the tipping point?

[upstatecajun]

With the war on labor unions in high gear across the nation, GOP governors slashing services for the poor and benefits for the unemployed as well as the defunding of education, are we near the tipping point in the United States?

Just this morning, if you were watching the financial networks, all you heard is that corporations are making bigger profits with higher production by its workers. In turn those workers are being paid less and are working longer hours. To top that off large corporations are not paying taxes as in GE that paid $0 in taxes last year, that’s right $0 in taxes.

My question to you is how much more will the middle class take? Are we nearing a tipping point? I know you can only push so far before they start to fight back. The pendulum has swung too far to the right and I think it’s about to take a big swing back to the left vary soon.








http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Liberal-Ohioan/195130570504421

[NYC_SKP]

1. There's no middle class left to fight. Most are too weary and depressed, the rest are the "them"...

It's not going to "swing back" in the traditional sense.

I'm afraid it's going to have to get ugly before it changes, some sort of collapse and rebuild scenario.

Cheers.

:scared:

[upstatecajun]

2. comforting

[nichomachus]

3. +1

[ileus]

10. collapse and rebuild scenario...You are correct. nt

[felix_numinous]

4. They are trying to wear us down first

by cutting social services, the foreclosure epidemic, cuts in healthcare, the assault on public education, lack of jobs and the endless wars. Whether or not these efforts are intentional or not, the American public is being demoralized and disenfranchised of our homes, lands and the worst part is the effect on younger people who cannot afford to educate themselves or a job.

I found the book The Fourth Turning, by William Strauss and Neil Howe very interesting (I heard about it on DU). In it they talk about four 20 year social/generational cycles that repeat themselves.

First is a high-an upbeat era when new civic order implants and the old regime decays.
Second is an awakening-a passionate era when the civic order comes under attack from new values.
Third is an unraveling of strengthening individualism and weakening institutions, the old civic order decays and new values regime implants.
Fourth is a crisis- a decisive era of secular upheaval when the new values regime replaces the old civic order with a new one.

The premise of the book is that we are now in a 20 year period of crisis, and although I cannot do this excellent book justice with all the historical and social/psychological references, in one part of the book there is a chart that estimates the last 4 cycles:

1946-1964 American high
1964-1984 Consciousness revolution
1984-2005? Culture wars
2005-2026? Millennial crisis

I think we have a lot to learn about history and cyclical patterns, since it helps to let go of what we cannot control and focus on how to best survive during times like this. What we have to ask ourselves is: What is a good strategy to survive times like this? To survive crisis times will look very different than a high time, perhaps we need to pool our resources, share more and work together.
What should we allow to decay, and what should we construct for our children and grandchildren? I think most of us want to see the robber barons burn themselves out, along with the corrupt religions and politicians, so what can we do to influence this to happen?


I think that surviving these times involves a strong vision of the future, that involves laying down the best fertile foundation, and planting the best seeds of wisdom (and actual seeds!) for the future. The hardest thing for Americans I think is accepting the long count, that we may not see the fruits of our labor, but labor we must.

I think we have to try our best to influence WHAT destructs, and WHAT the next cycle will look like, because robber baron types are ruthless, their survival instinct is to hoard and wall off themselves, while the rest of us have to adopt a survival instinct of solidarity--our strength is our sheer numbers and that is what eventually prevails.

[Uncle Joe]

6. I haven't read the book but it seems to me those dates are off.

"First is a high-an upbeat era when new civic order implants and the old regime decays." This era would've actually began in the early 30s' during the Depression with the rise of FDR and the New Deal.

"Second is an awakening-a passionate era when the civic order comes under attack from new values." This would've began during the McCarthy Era late 40s - early 50s.

"Third is an unraveling of strengthening individualism and weakening institutions, the old civic order decays and new values regime implants." I see this as beginning during the mid to late turbulent 60s.

"Fourth is a crisis- a decisive era of secular upheaval when the new values regime replaces the old civic order with a new one." This starting during the early to mid 80s with the Reagan Era"

I see this cycle repeating it self "First is a high-an upbeat era when new civic order implants and the old regime decays." in the mid 00s with the rising power of the Internet.

As we live a fishbowl, we don't perceive those changes from their initiation so much as the results after the fact and it seems to me, that's what the author has done.

I'm a little more optimistic as I believe we're wearing them down, but it's a painful process on both sides.

[felix_numinous]

7. I think the premise of the book is interesting

I cannot do this book justice here, the last chapter actually is actually very optimistic. I don't have a historical background, yet find the subject of social cycles fascinating.

[Uncle Joe]

8. I agree with you re: the interesting premise and social cycles being fascinating.

Peace to you, :hi:

[deaniac21]

5. I'll go as high as 35% but I start at 20.

[whattheidonot]

9. pretty soon.

I think the tipping point is soon. Seeing a Democratic President do little on the big economic issues is scary. It shows he is powerless to go against the big interests. we will get the Republicans will be worse line while things do not improve that much. It is going to take a huge nationwide movement to move politics back to being representative. Either the Democrats have begun to believe the corporate message or they are being paid off. When enough people are left out trouble will start. The corporations want to cut benefits to the poor but hire as few as possible. That is not going to work.

[Snoutport]

11. I've reached mine...nt

[OneBlueSky]

12. what continues to amaze me is how working people --

middle class, low class, no class, whatever -- consistently vote against their own best interests and continue to elect Members of Congress and Senators aligned with (i.e. in the back pockets of) the monied interests . . .

a candidate who could break through this intellectual blockade and actually get people voting FOR their own best interests would be a revelation -- and very likely a big, big winner . . .

[TorchTheWitch]

13. sadly, no

And it's exactly why this was a systematic dismantling over a period of decades... to get people accustomed to the devastating changes by increments. The slower the dismantling, the slower or even non-existent reaction to it.

Unfortunately, most people don't reach a tipping point until the eleventh hour and are willing to put up with the most wretched of conditions before finally reaching that tipping point.

[old mark]

14. K&R- I don't know, and I don't know it there will be one...I HOPE, but I see

so many people who AGREE with the GOPers for what ever reason...
Things will be more clear after the 2012 election is over, one way or the other...

mark