Was asked for signature at Walmart yesterday, for new group wanting to

[WingDinger]

bring new faces to politics, and end the BICKERING. Get stuff done. Supposedly, libertarians, liberals, conservatives and all such. I asked point blank if they were teaparty. When he said that the politicians arent getting anything DONE, because of the fighting, I said it was the dumbass republicans that were doing the fighting. He said yes, they all are. I said I hadnt heard of any of them and it sounded dangerous.

Didnt ask what constituted Getting Stuff Done. It is time to end the idiotic Californian system of adding ballot initiatives. These idiots are flying under the radar. Using misleading wording, scant background, and TRICKING the population. I expect Koch brothers to be behind this.



PS, I have to go to Walmart to get my prescriptions at prices I can afford to stay alive.

[xchrom]

1. i HATE ballot initiatives.

why have and pay legislators?

[gratuitous]

2. I used to sign practically every ballot initiative

That was in the early 1980s, when citizen initiatives were just that: initiatives begun by citizens who couldn't seem to get any traction with the legislature. "Put it to a vote," thought I. "This is a democracy, let the majority rule." Then certain forces "discovered" the citizen initiative. Suddenly, there were paid signature gatherers, corruption of the process, and people who actually made their living writing bad legislation dressed up in phony baloney wording.

I haven't signed a ballot initiative petition in nearly 20 years.

[freshwest]

7. I stopped when we realized that the signature gatherers were all paid by firms going for contracts.

They'd have some theme that sounded populist or civil rights, then it would turn out that they were shilling for some private outfit to take work from public employees. Now I just look at them and ask how business is doing. They usually blush or get flustered. Most of them are into the Grover Nordquist 'starve the beast' groups who pay a pittance to get the initiatives on the ballot and use any theme to get those contracts. Anything I see now, I consider the way these private companies get their business from the taxpayer. Because in the long-run, it's all tax money from bond and property levies or sales taxes, but they slap the 'private enterprise' label on it, take the money and run. No accountability for future generations or the quality of the mission or work performed. Just plain crooks.

[Tippy]

3. Do you have a K-Mart?....Their prices are lower then W Mart

For that matter many Drug stores in our area, not Wallgreens has lowered their prices...shop around...

[Cleita]

4. I don't go to Wal-Mart but two elections ago when I

was stumping for John Kerry, a fellow campaign worker had set up a table to register voters outside Wal-Mart and she was run off. I suppose only conservatives are allowed to play politics at Wal-Mart?

[MilesColtrane]

5. I'm going to go Godwin here regarding Getting Stuff Done

They say Hitler made the trains run on time.

[FormerDittoHead]

14. beat me to it. But it was Mussolini who they said got the trains to run on time.

But a quick check found out that the trains ran no better after Mussolini than before he took power.

[MilesColtrane]

15. Did the Allies give up after Germany bomb Pearl Harbor?

Don't stop me.

I'm on a roll.

[MadHound]

6. I love ballot initiatives, direct democracy at its finest

The trouble is that then our legislature comes in and does exactly the opposite of what the people have voted for on the ballot initiative. That's how we wound up with conceal/carry laws, and the watering down, to the point of uselessness, of our anti-puppy mill law.

[msongs]

11. not democracy at all - unless their is no payment per signature. It's rule by $$/corporations

it should be illegal to get paid for signatures. If you believe in the cause get out there and do it for its own value.

BTW paid signature gatherers promote the ones that pay most per signature and the ones paying least are moved to the bottom of their pile.

[WingDinger]

18. Not. When there is a crew asking for stuff, and another that has to

find a way to pay for it, you get trash, misdirects, and giveaways.

[Brickbat]

8. Is it this kind of Getting Stuff Done?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4P785j15Tzk

(Funny and SFW.)

[leveymg]

9. All ballot initiatives should be accompanied by a factsheet from LOWV explaining the measure

and it should also list the backers and the size of their contributions, starting with the largest. That way, full transparency.

[JohnnyRingo]

10. "Out the incumbents" was the battle cry of the Tea Party since Democrats took the majority

I'm sure it's muted now that republicans hold sway in the House of Representatives, but I imagine there are still some locals who haven't got the message from GOP headquarters yet. Considering many 'baggers aren't happy that Repubs haven't gone far enough to drag America back to the Iron Age, they may still be searching for "the right candidate" to adopt their sweeping measures.

The best advice to anyone is read everything before signing any petition, and don't sign on if there's nothing positive in it.

[msongs]

12. since the black guy became president actually..... nt

[L. Coyote]

13. Boycott union-busting Wal-Mart

Or, at least, don't admit you go there :rofl:

[backscatter712]

16. In Colorado, there may be a referendum to require constitutional amendments to pass by 60%.

I'm for that.

[Shagbark Hickory]

17. Why don't you complain to the store management about the people pestering you for signatures?

You shouldn't have to deal with that when you go to the store.
You might tell them that you were inconvenienced and that this doesn't happen when you shop at ____insert competitor's name here____

[WingDinger]

19. The supreme court has determined that outside a grocer is a public space.

[Shagbark Hickory]

21. Is that what the manager told you? If not, Why not complain to the manager anyway.

If there's anything I've learned about grocery managers, it's that they aren't always familiar with all the supreme court rulings or even basic food code for that matter.

[WingDinger]

23. He/she would be sued, and gain them exposure

[Shagbark Hickory]

26. Um no, If they were dumb enough to sue, they'd be suing walmart. A losing proposition that will cost

them thousands.

[lame54]

24. not true, unless it is a public sidewalk.

If it is within a private shopping center it is private property and the store can refuse just ask the salvation army or the girl scouts.

[Shagbark Hickory]

27. Good point.

[unapatriciated]

25. It is not a public space. Shopping centers are private property.

http://www.pufmm.org/docs/How%20to%20use%20your%20First%20Amendment%20Rights.pdf

Scenario C
You are outside a Wal-Mart at the local mall, you are petitioning with a clipboard and handing
out flyers, the Salvation Army is handing out information and collecting donations next to you.
The store manager comes out and tells you to leave or they will call the police. What do you say?

Unfortunately, shopping malls are considered private property, so even though the Salvation
Army are outside Wal-Mart, it is at the Discretion of the Management to determine who gets to
solicit. Your response in this case would be to ask management at the store for permission or
politely explain you didn’t understand the policy and leave. Remember your First Amendment
rights to protest do not apply on private property, you must always ask permission. Many club
owners are willing to let you set up tables on their property, so don’t be shy.

on edit:
But this has been challenged in California and other States do have laws supporting signature gathering under First Amendment Rights. So it seems to be a state by state issue.

http://www.towleroad.com/2011/03/target-sues-to-keep-activist-group-from-canvassing-for-marriage-equality-outside-their-stores.html

Target Sues to Keep Activist Group from Canvassing for Marriage Equality Outside its Stores
I mentioned this recently in one of my news round-ups, but today a case is set to begin in San Diego in which Target Corporation will face off against activists who want to petition for marriage equality outside its stores.

San Diego Gay and Lesbian News reports:

On Friday morning, Superior Court Judge Jeffrey B. Barton will listen to arguments from both sides after Minnesota-based Target Corp. sued the San Diego-based Canvass For A Cause (CFAC) to prevent the grass-roots activist group from gathering petition signatures in front of its stores in California.

The fundamental American right to free speech is at the heart of this case, said Tres Watson, executive director of CFAC who is a San Diego resident.

In an earlier court date on March 8, Judge Barton denied a motion by Target’s attorneys seeking a temporary restraining order against CFAC. Barton ruled that the right of free speech trumps over the business interest of Target in refusing the request

[Shagbark Hickory]

28. Yeah would be nice to stand outside walmart and hand out coupons for target or somewhere.

Methinks somebody's got their supreme court rulings a little confuzzled.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SoCalDem]

22. During the pre-Ahhhnold recall, one petition was suppposedly for

"safe drinking water"... Now who would be against that?

After reading a bit more, the true purpose of the petition was there, but most people were just saying, "sure..where do I sign?"

and then we ended up with Ahhhnold.. and damn if they didn't give him another term :shrug: