African American shoots himself, jailed two years. WASP veep shoots guy in face, he's free.

[Octafish]

Something's wrong with this picture:



Plaxico Burress, an African American NFL player, accidently shoots himself, pleads guilty and is imprisoned for two years.

And these:



Richard Bruce "Dick" Cheney, the then-WASP vice president, accidently shoots another person in face, he's free.

Two people. Two different crimes: In the first, one person hurts another. In the second, one person hurts himself.



But, he's Black. And for some, that thought trumps someone being a warmonger, war criminal and traitor.

[Riftaxe]

1. Yeah, screw the facts...it must be about race

not criminal possession of an illegal firearm or any other of those pesky facts....

[Hannah Bell]

2. yeah, it's not like there's a clear pattern of race-based discriminatory sentencing or anything.

with a very long history.

lol.

[cali]

107. It's far more about class than race.

[slackmaster]

126. I don't see any responses in this thread that deny the existence of that pattern of discrimination

But that's not really the subject, is it?

[msanthrope]

164. Kindly tell us which white person got away with carrying a gun into an NYC nightclub

and discharging it under the same law that Plaxico did????


Of course, Cyrus Vance is a well-known racist, right?

[lapfog_1]

6. Of course...

Let's not let the reporting of the shooting some 10 hours later or the likelihood the the white guy doing the actual shooting of another white guy being drunk at the time of the shooting affect your evaluation.

[cherokeeprogressive]

13. Any more than the football player checking into the hospital under an assumed name?

Likelihood? Now we prosecute people if there's a likelihood they've done something wrong? Is that the kind of country you want to live in? Not my vision of Utopia, certainly. No matter how much I hate Cheney, let's get him on something more than a "likelihood", huh?

[Bandit]

128. The Bush* Doctrine.. We prosecute if they even think about doing something wrong

And we do it any damn place we want. Another country's borders are meaningless to the Empire..

[Octafish]

36. Want to bring up more than that.

The point, ultimately, is that Burress did not harm another person.

Cheney has made a career of it.

[notesdev]

94. True but

negligent discharge of a firearm is a serious matter nonetheless. With great firepower comes great responsibility, to borrow a phrase.

As to whether the prosecution of one and not the other is racist... I seriously doubt it. I think Cheney remains unprosecuted for this and other crimes due to unspoken agreement among elites not to prosecute each other. When was the last time a high official in this country faced a serious prosecution? They are immune to laws which apply to you and me and the guy who Plax'd himself.

[walldude]

102. Following that logic, this guy shot himself so he should

be allowed not to press charges against himself. :)


And 2 years for possessing a gun? Seems harsh.

[notesdev]

105. That's gun control city for you

aka New York City

IMO it's not just harsh, it's downright tyrannical.

However, some sanction is certainly deserved for the negligent discharge, that is indeed a valid public concern. The right to bear arms is inextricable from the responsibility to practice proper use and handling of those arms. New York City having gone way over into openly and proudly violating at the 2nd Amendment, however, is just plain illegal in my book. Plax ought to appeal based on Heller, which may in fact invalidate the statute he was charged under.

[Statistical]

118. Welcome to NYC.

I mean he illegally brought a gun into a bar, illegally concealed in the heart of of the most anti-gun cities in the US.

Him shooting himself is just what led to the discovery of his illegal carry & concealement of an unregistered firearm.

[deaniac21]

155. The point, actually, is that Burris was in illegal possession of

a gun in a New York night club. He shot himself and tried to hide. Darth Vader was hunting will a legal gun, hunting license and on grounds where it was legal to shoot. They were both accidents but one on hunting grounds and the other in a city with strict gun laws. There is no real analogy.

[msanthrope]

163. Don't bring facts into this. n/t

[Kingofalldems]

143. Hmmm--interesting

[Cali_Democrat]

3. There is definitely a double standard in this country, but I"m not sure this is a good example

New York has very strict gun laws if I'm not mistaken.

[Octafish]

38. New York City and State both do, IINM.

As for Bloomberg and his D.A., they made political hay.

[Wednesdays]

173. So, if Cheney did his deed in NYC instead, he would've gone to jail?

Yeah, rriiiiiiiiiight. :eyes:

[Rex]

4. Laws don't apply to dick cheney, he just got a 35 million ass save

from Halliburton to Nigeria. Not that he needed it, who would take him in? A lawyer? Ouch.

[Octafish]

43. You know, I've never taught you a thing...

...but I want to update you on how much grease was required, my Friend.

[hack89]

159. What law did he break?

are we to criminalize every accident?

[Amonester]

5. A warmonger (for greed), war criminal (for sadistic reasons), traitor (for his classless class)

AND chickenhawk draft-dodger, corrupt dealmaker, taxpayers fraudster.

But hey, we 'must' Look Forward (TM).



N-E-V-E-R
(forget)

[Octafish]

77. AND chickenhawk draft-dodger, corrupt dealmaker, taxpayers fraudster.

Cheney & Halliburton Sold Iran Nuke Technology

N-E-V-E-R
(forget)

[Skittles]

7. it could be money, not race

look at O J Simpson - he slaughtered two people and GOT OFF

[FLAprogressive]

8. I'm sure there are some who truly believe he was framed....likely for some "racist" reason...

...there's no hope for people who continually play the race card, regardless of the situation. Some people have made a career out of it.

[NOLALady]

30. Yep.

That ole two of diamonds raising its ugly head again!

[Hannah Bell]

11. and the reason it was on tv 24/7 = race

[FLAprogressive]

12. seriously? Being, I don't know, famous had nothing at all to do with it??

[Hannah Bell]

14. being a famous black man had something to do with it, yes.

a famous black man married to a white woman.

nothing like that titilating shit to ramp up the race divisions.

[Skittles]

18. nothing like nearly decapitating her to call attention to that marriage

[Hannah Bell]

20. because it was a white woman. if a famous black man had murdered his black wife, it sure wouldn't

have been on tv 24/7.

[FLAprogressive]

22. Hypothetical situations are the key to any "good" race card argument.

Do you have any definitive proof to back that statement up?

[Hannah Bell]

27. here's a non-hypothetical. marvin gaye, who in my book is more famous than oj simpson,

murdered his black father.

no 24/7 coverage, no coverage of the trial.

i'm sure if i gave it some thought i could come up with more examples.

i recall the white heir of billionaires who murdered his gay lover -- barely covered at all.

only some kinds of murders get 24/7 coverage -- interracial murders with famous people involved (but not "powerful" famous people, i.e. the financial class) are one of those categories.

[FLAprogressive]

31. When Marvin Gaye was murdered *by* his father, 24/7 cable news was in its infancy.

[Hannah Bell]

46. see? it was so uncovered, i can't even remember the details.

the simpson case was just 10 years later.

[FLAprogressive]

51. So you mean to tell me that there was no shift in the way news was covered in those 10 years?

[Hannah Bell]

53. no i mean to tell you that the media doesn't care if black people kill black people.

as a general rule.

[Skittles]

32. if it had been O J Simpson

naw, they wouldn't have cared :rofl:

[Hannah Bell]

50. the hysteria around that case had *everything* to do with race.

[Skittles]

101. seems to have worked in his favor

the murdering bastard got off

[Hannah Bell]

104. but it sure worked to heighten race tension, didn't it? & that was the point.

it's always the point.

just another bloody flag to wave at the proles.

see that arrogant rich black guy who killed his beautiful white wife? see him? see him?

[Skittles]

109. ugh

[Hannah Bell]

110. if you didn't hear it, you weren't around at the time.

and if you don't think the media purposefully race-baits, you're blind.

they bait both ways, & that was an equal-opportunity bait, something for all grievances there.

[NOLALady]

122. He wasn't the first nor last murdering bastard

who got off. But he was one of the few (maybe only) non white murdering bastard who got off after killing a white person.

[Karenina]

139. BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

At the time an AWM friend quipped to me, "Equality has truly begun in America when a black guy with a black lawyer can beat a charge of murdering a white woman." He was SOOO delighted even though conceding his gut told him OJ was guilty.

[FLAprogressive]

21. I think any person on his level of fame charged with murder would be given as much media coverage...

people like Phil Spector, for example, are nowhere near as famous as OJ was

[Hannah Bell]

48. and she was white

[Zax2me]

9. Um, yea.

I hope you didn't waste too much time on this.

[Octafish]

97. Thanks for the kind thoughts. Here's something else I've written about.

Cheney, Rumsfeld, Ford Covered Up CIA Murder of American Scientist

Most importantly: One of Dr. Olson's children is a DUer.

[cherokeeprogressive]

10. Burress was breaking the law when he shot himself. It's right there in your link.

Although I find the need to defend Cheney sickening, what law was Cheney breaking specifically when he shot the other hunter by accident?

I know you're big on conspiracies and have about a thousand working at any given time, but how in the fuck do you compare Burress with the Cheney? We all dislike Dick Cheney and would like to see him brought to justice for whatever laws he's broken, but come on man, find a better way to say it.

[FLAprogressive]

15. easy, it's not fair because one person was black and the other was white!

Can't you get that through your obviously racist mind?! :sarcasm:

[cherokeeprogressive]

17. I tried... No Joy

Obviously racist here.

:rofl:

[Hannah Bell]

16. two years for shooting yourself? really?

[cherokeeprogressive]

19. Please show me where he was prosecuted for "shooting himself".

Please show me that. Find the indictment and show me where it says Burress was being prosecuted for "shooting himself".

So he breaks and law and we say "Awwww, we're not going to prosecute, you got hurt while you were carrying illegally. Run along now!"

[Hannah Bell]

23. i just saw a white woman on tv who had an unregistered gun. the penalty was confistication of the

gun. period.

[cherokeeprogressive]

24. Try to stay on topic Hanna. Come on now.

Was the white woman carrying a concealed weapon illegally?

[Hannah Bell]

28. she had an unregistered firearm in her possession. i believe that's a crime.

[cherokeeprogressive]

33. Was it in the waistband of her pants? Her purse? Her home? Where was it Hannah? Stay with me now

You can do it.

[Hannah Bell]

35. doesn't matter. it was an illegal firearm & she didn't even get a citation.

[cherokeeprogressive]

39. Well in that case...

I mean why didn't you say before that it didn't matter? That's all you had to do; tell me it didn't matter.

Now I understand completely.

[Hannah Bell]

57. not clever, though you think you are.

[Travelman]

130. How on earth do you know it was an "illegal firearm?"

Can you look at some random Smith & Wesson on TV and just divine its "legality" somehow? That's quite a skill. There are many factors regarding the "legality" of a weapon, probably first and foremost is the geographical location of that weapon and the person in possession of it. There are also many factors involving what happens to someone who possesses a firearm illegally, and first and foremost amongst those is also the geographical location of the person possessing the firearm. Each state has their own laws in that regard, and it has NOTHING to do with race.

[FLAprogressive]

25. Well that settles it. You just saw something on TV. Did this even happen in the same state?

[Hannah Bell]

29. well, if it's jeb bush's fascist balliwick, all bets are off, aren't they?

you guys want to argue there's no race bias in media coverage of crime, conviction or imprisonment, knock yourself out.

the well-documented fact is otherwise & you'd have to be deaf & blind not to know it.

[FLAprogressive]

41. Jeb Bush!? What does he ave to do with this? Wait wait don't tell me -- he got caught carrying a gun

too!

:rofl:

[cherokeeprogressive]

42. An illegal one at that. n/t

[FLAprogressive]

44. And he got off scot-free simply because for being white!

[cherokeeprogressive]

45. And famous.

Ask Octafish. I'm sure he can find the conspiracy in his files somewhere.

You know, the Bush/Illegal weapons charge conspiracy.

[FLAprogressive]

47. Yes, because shooting someone in the face was clearly the *peak* of BushCo.'s crimes!

:rofl:

[Hannah Bell]

59. um, because that's where his expired permit was issued?

[FLAprogressive]

61. I'm still not sure what point you're trying to make here. His CCW permit was *expired* anyway.

[Hannah Bell]

68. the point that the third-world mafia-run country of florida, is in the text of the story.

[FLAprogressive]

72. If your point is that Florida is a third-world and mafia-run "country" then I would not disagree

with you there.

[Travelman]

131. Not relevant in the least

The state of New York does not recognize nor do they have a reciprocal agreement with the state of Florida on carry permits. Burris knowingly committed an illegal act of carrying a weapon into a public place that sells alcohol in the city of New York. The only thing that a Florida permit proves is that he cannot claim ignorance of the law.

[slackmaster]

127. Was she in New York City when she was caught with the unregistered gun?

Was she carrying it concealed without a permit?

Or did that happen some other place like North Carolina, where gun registration is required but a violation isn't a major crime?

[onenote]

140. what jurisdiction?

[Octafish]

26. Did you read the article?

If you did, you'd know he pled guilty in order to avoid the chance of a mandatory 3 1/2 year stretch.

It may not have mattered, anyway. Here's what his lawyer said:

Before the case was presented to a grand jury, Mr. Brafman said, he tried for months to negotiate with the district attorney’s office for leniency, but prosecutors never offered less than two years in prison.

That was in the article, too.

[cherokeeprogressive]

37. Read it. Noted it. Also saw that Mr. Burress checked into the hospital under a false name.

Not sure what point you're trying to make here.

[hfojvt]

52. to me that seems like a very long sentence

for the mere crime of carrying a weapon.

I also wonder if the law he is accused of breaking has been found unconstitutional.

[cherokeeprogressive]

56. Why wonder? There is very good information on the internets...

Ya just have to be motivated to look for it.

[hfojvt]

89. Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly

man got to sit and wonder 'why, why, why'?

Why not wonder? It's much easier than doing hours of searching on the internets which can easily find irrelevant information and contradictory information.

I certainly have no dog in the hunt. In fact, I think Plaxico should goto prison for decades just for catching all of those passes against the Packers in 2008.

[cherokeeprogressive]

146. You know, I can't argue with a single word you posted.

I hate when that happens.

[Octafish]

66. Please feel free to go through the ''thousand" conspiracies I'm working and tell me where I'm wrong.

My journal is right there for your review.

If I've made a mistake, I'll admit I'm wrong. Otherwise, please contribute to what we know and don't be puerile.

[cherokeeprogressive]

71. I wasn't aware that I said any of your conspiracy theories were wrong.

Sorry.

[Taitertots]

34. Any particular reason you used a pejorative for the White person? n/t

[HEyHEY]

40. It's not racist if it's against white people.

Duh!

[Octafish]

49. What pejorative would that be, taitertots?

Truth be told, Cheney's Satanic.

[Taitertots]

54. Cheney is a bad person, and WASP is a pejorative

Cheney's faults speak for themselves, we don't need bigoted pejoratives to describe him.

[Hannah Bell]

62. lol. yeah, "irish" is a pejorative too. jesus christ.

better tell TIME magazine.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,979728,00.html

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,996168,00.html

[Taitertots]

74. Your response is Non Sequitur n/t

[Hannah Bell]

78. you don't know the definition of non-sequitur.

but your claim that "wasp" is a pejorative is a falsehood.

[Taitertots]

79. It was used accurately in the previous post n/t

[HEyHEY]

75. WASP is a term used in disgust to describe a group of people with a common ethnic trait

Irish is just used to describe people form Ireland, there's no comparison.

[Hannah Bell]

55. because it's the mass murderer dick cheney? could that be it?

[FLAprogressive]

58. being a mass murderer now gives people a license to use whatever racial pejorative they'd like?

So can I start calling Idi Amin racist terms?

[Hannah Bell]

60. please point out the "racist" term used to degrade the white mass murderer dick cheney?

the one who killed millions on several continents including his own countrymen?

you know, the white mass murderer dick cheney?

[FLAprogressive]

64. Thank you for proving my point, you can use say whatever you want so long as your target is a war

criminal.

[Hannah Bell]

73. the racist pejorative being, according to the experts here, "WASP".

A "pejorative" regularly used by the major media.

is dick cheney not a white anglo saxon protestant?

why yes, he is.

and he's also a mass murderer.

[HEyHEY]

80. What?

I've NEVER heard that used in the media. I've heard them say "White Anglo-Saxon" or such but never "WASP"

[Igel]

120. Note the redundancy?

All those black and brown Anglo-Saxons aren't covered by the term, it would seem. Although fairly often non-Anglo-Saxon whites are.

"WP" wouldn't do it but that's what's usually meant. I've been called a WASP, being white but neither Anglo-Saxon nor Protestant. Wasn't a compliment, any more than the much more common "anglo" is. As with "squaw" the etymology is less important than current usage.

I've seen WASP used in the media. Mostly I recall its being used with conscious delicateness, bristling with hedges (i.e., historical examples) and "quote intonation" or in speech explicitly attributed to others. So it's a case of being true but the truth having little bearing on the argument.

There are epithets for which you can't duck responsibility even if they're used in quotes from 100 years ago; there are epithets you can duck responsibility for if they're used in quotes; there are epithets you can use, provided you indicate you're aware that they're probably offensive to some people.

[HEyHEY]

133. Redundancy is meaningless in this arguement

SHortening something to make a quick way to refer to someone in an insulting way is by no means a new thing.

[Taitertots]

85. It is clearly a pejorative, whether or not the media uses it is meaningless

Is Obama Black? Does that justify all the pejoratives Freepers use against him. If all you can do is bemoan the background of a person than you have sunk to the lowest level. You are as much a bigot as Freepers defending racist attacks on Obama. Good to know you have sunk as low as freepers, my complaints about Cheney are concrete, not bigoted smears.

[Hannah Bell]

92. yes, he's black. black isn't a pejorative. neither is wasp.

that's why both words are used in the media, whereas the n-word isn't.

[Confusious]

111. White Anglo-Saxon Protestant or WASP is an informal term, often disparaging nt

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Anglo-Saxon_Protestant

[Taitertots]

63. Dick Cheney is certainly the worst VP I can recall

That doesn't mean we should call him pejoratives.

[FLAprogressive]

65. Yes we should, because he's a white war criminal.

[cherokeeprogressive]

67. We all know those are the worst kind.

Those of us who aren't racist anyway.

[FLAprogressive]

69. Black war criminals are just misunderstood and are covered unfairly because of their race.

If Hitler were black he'd be given far more media attention!

[Hannah Bell]

70. go ahead, convict yourself. we'll watch.

[Taitertots]

87. You can just skip the bigotry and call him a war criminal

There is no need to force pejoratives into otherwise accurate condemnation of Cheney.

[FLAprogressive]

88. According to the "anti-racists" here there is!

[Hannah Bell]

108. white is now a pejorative too?

[HEyHEY]

76. So, I can call Mugabe an N-bomb?

[FLAprogressive]

81. Careful, he has his supporters here you know....

[Hannah Bell]

84. he has his supporters -- & they're a faction of capital.

you don't suppose any tinpot african dictator holds power without big backers behind him, do you?

no, you believe the media narrative. lol.

another example of the uses of race to capital.

speaking of non-seqs, why did you feel mugabe was relevant to a thread about a black american football player getting 2 years for carrying an unpermitted gun?

go ahead, i'll watch.

[Hannah Bell]

82. because "wasp" is the equivalent? lol.

knock yourselves out.

everyone wants to pretend there's no race bias in the justice system or in the media system that selects which kinds of criminals will be held up as public spectacles.

knock yourselves out, folks, knock yourselves out.

[HEyHEY]

83. Hey, I am not denying there's race based discrimination AT ALL

I am denying that WASP is not a racist term. And you know what? As someone who could be considered a WASP, I do find the term to be offensive.

[Hannah Bell]

90. tell time magazine. tell the nyt. i'm white & don't consider it a bit offensive.

and the only people i've ever heard use it were white.

and as its a term invented in the 60s by a sociologist & not commonly used in the vernacular, imo you're a bit over sensitive.

if someone called me "whitey," "white trash," or something similar i'd be inclined to take offense. since the connotations of those words are similar to those of the n-word.

if they called me a wasp i'd just note i'm a german-pole.

you can take offense at whatever you want, doesn't mean the word is commonly used with the intent to offend, unlike the n-word or those i mentioned.

[HEyHEY]

91. The only people I've heard use it have used it as an insult.

And that's what makes it wrong. Also, you should note it's been almost 11 years since it was used in Time according to the articles you posted.

[Hannah Bell]

95. oooh, 11 years! why, the entire language has changed since then!

i can use *any* word as an insult, depending on how & in what context i use it.

that a word *can* be used an insult isn't the measure of a pejorative, BUT THAT IT TYPICALLY *IS* USED AS ONE.

[HEyHEY]

96. Decorum regarding such matters can change over a decade

Believe it or not. As well, it can be seen as more acceptable to use WASP in the NYT and such because it's not refering to a minority that is traditionally persecuted, but that has done the persecuting. It shows a lack of respect for a people. And therefor is inappropriate. I spent three years at CBC and would NEVER have been allowed to use that in a news story.

Granted, at one time it was not seen as an insult, but the same goes for many terms. They become something else over time.

[Hannah Bell]

98. white anglo saxon protestants aren't "a people".

[HEyHEY]

99. Would you say they're sub-human, Hitler?

I'm kidding.

Seriously though, they are a people. They are White, ANglo-saxon people. If they weren't a people there would be no reason to refer to them as A;White B; Anglo C;Protestant.

[Hannah Bell]

100. anglo-saxons = the inhabitants of britain prior to the norman conquest.

more loosely, the term means the protestant english who emigrated to canada, the us, australia and other anglophone countries over religious disputes. circa 1600-1700.

if you think there's still a culturally cohesive wasp "people" point it out to me.

in the us it means upper-class bostonian/new englander types.

i'm white, i was raised protestant, but i'm not anglo-saxon. "WASP" to me = white-shoe law firms & old money. snooty accents & manners.

you want to call that a "people", whatever.

[HEyHEY]

132. Ya kinda answered yourself

"if you think there's still a culturally cohesive wasp "people" point it out to me.

in the us it means upper-class bostonian/new englander types. "

[Hannah Bell]

142. 3 110-year-old ladies in their victorian drawing rooms = "a people"?

that "culture" doesn't exist anymore.

[Hannah Bell]

86. Yeah, something wrong:

(d) Class E violent felony offenses:

an attempt to commit any of the felonies of criminal possession of a weapon in the third degree as defined in subdivision five, six, seven or eight of section 265.02 as a lesser included offense of that section as defined in section 220.20 of the criminal procedure law, persistent sexual abuse as defined in section 130.53, aggravated sexual abuse in the fourth degree as defined in section 130.65-a, falsely reporting an incident in the second degree as defined in section 240.55 and placing a false bomb or hazardous substance in the second degree as defined in section 240.61.


d) For a class E felony, the term must be at least one and one-half years and must not exceed four years.


So that's when you have illegal possession of a gun & also try to do something criminal.

But just having the gun carries a harsher penalty?

Class C felony carries a mandatory 3 & 1/2 years, & names these coincident crimes:

Class C violent felony offenses: an attempt to commit any of the
class B felonies set forth in paragraph (a);

aggravated criminally negligent homicide as defined in section 125.11,

aggravated manslaughter in the second degree as defined in section 125.21,

aggravated sexual abuse in the second degree as defined in section 130.67,

assault on a peace officer, police officer, fireman or emergency medical services
professional as defined in section 120.08,

gang assault in the second degree as defined in section 120.06,

burglary in the second degree as defined in section 140.25,

robbery in the second degree as defined in section 160.10,

criminal possession of a weapon in the second degree as defined in section 265.03,

criminal use of a firearm in the second degree as defined in section 265.08,

criminal sale of a firearm in the second degree as defined in section 265.12,

criminal sale of a firearm with the aid of a minor as defined in section 265.14,

soliciting or providing support for an act of terrorism in the first degree as defined
in section 490.15,

hindering prosecution of terrorism in the second degree as defined in section 490.30,

and criminal possession of a chemical weapon or biological weapon in the third degree as defined in section 490.37.

http://law.onecle.com/new-york/penal/PEN070.02_70.02.html


He should have tried to burgle a store or something. Why not? No difference.

if i'm reading the law right, he could kill someone with his unregistered firearm & theoretically get the same minimum 3 & 1/2 years first mentioned.

[Octafish]

93. They threw the book at him.

It is crazy. Burress pled guilty and they still gave him the shaft.

There was another NFL player who, while driving drunk, struck and killed a pedestrian. Donte Stallworth spent less than a month in jail.

[hughee99]

103. I wonder if they threw the book at Stallworth because of his race as well. n/t

[Hannah Bell]

106. i wonder if anyone will ever throw the book at george bush for killing

a million people on false pretenses.

nah.

[chill_wind]

112. Well..you can call him a mass murderer, but whatever you do

don't call him a mass murderer in any pejorative tone!!
:sarcasm:


Jesus! The amount of demagoguery and politically correct dogmatism in the face of truly heinous character here is sometimes simply astounding!

For the hypersensitive....


WASP is an acronym for White Anglo-Saxon Protestant. It was coined in the early 1960s to describe the ruling elite of the United States, implying that they were almost exclusively drawn from a very narrow social group. There was possibly the further implication that as WASPs they had little or no sympathy for other social groups. Today it is more generally used by antiestablishment social critics who may wish to put an ethnic label on their political opponents. In practice, as of 2004 there are not many Americans, percentage-wise, of real English descent, and even fewer of them are actually practicing Protestants.

The modern-day targets of the term are pretty much all white Americans as well as the successful Asian-Americans whom the critics may deem a dominant, allegedly fairly homogenous, pro-"establishment" social group. The term is used largely by liberals, especially those belonging to ethnic minorities.

WASP is also used in historical writings about the turn of the 19th-20th century United States to distinguish white Americans who have lived in the country for a long time, and hence were relatively wealthy and fluent in English from the recent immigrants from Southern and Eastern Europe.

http://www.wordiq.com/definition/List_of_pejorative_political_slogans#WASP

[Hannah Bell]

113. fwiw: cheney has more wasp ancestry than bush. a lot of germans in the bush line,

i think there's only one in cheney's, the rest = highly brit

cheney wasn't just some hick from wyoming; his family was connected.

bill gates, cheney, warren buffett -- what's the connection?

nebraska. and banking.

[hughee99]

134. Of course not, he's white.

When Obama leaves office, I'm sure he'll be charged with all sorts of stuff by the AG. :sarcasm:

[Wednesdays]

175. They didn't throw the book at Bush because of Iraq, but...

:rofl:

[hack89]

162. Different states, different laws. nt

[mommalegga]

114. Why dont you actually read the charges?

First of all:

"Two different crimes: In the first, one person hurts another. In the second, one person hurts himself"

These were not the "crimes" at all.

NYC has strict gun control laws. Burress was charged with illegal possesion, not shooting himself.

Cheney was legally carrying a firearm using it in a legal manner(hunting) and accidently shot someone.

Understand the difference? If not, you have my sympathies.

[Th1onein]

It is just idiotic that Plaxico Burress is going to prison for two years.

This guy had a permit to carry a gun, but it was expired (and not a permit to carry a gun in New York). His career is ruined for accidentally shooting himself. How utterly stupid. This is predatory behavior on the part of the prosecutor. I hope the people get his ass out of office next time he's up for election.

[Statistical]

119. Plaxico shooting himself merely led to the discovery.

He had an illegal firearm that he illegally concealed, and illegally carried into a prohibited location (bar/nightclub).

I mean I think NYC gun laws are stupid but I feel no sympathy for his arrogance/stupidity.

Even IF his weapon was registered that wasn't valid in NYC (no different than me bringing my legal handgun from VA to NYC).
Even IF his weapon HAD been registered in NYC he didn't have authorization to carry it.
Even IF he had authorization to carry it he didn't have authorization to conceal it and carry it in a reckless manner.
Even IF he had authorization for conceal carry AND carried it in a responsible manner he didn't have permission to carry it into a bar.

The guy is an idiot, but ignorance of the law isn't a defense. Personally the off the charts "anti-gun" laws in NYC is one reason I would never consider living there, however if you do then you need to abide by the laws.

[Th1onein]

157. I read the story. I disagree with you.

I think a fine would have been appropriate. Prison time is just silly in this case.

[hack89]

161. That's what strict gun control is all about.

he broke several NY gun laws in a place that hammers illegal gun owners. Perhaps the solution is to liberalize gun laws.

[Th1onein]

115. It is just idiotic that Plaxico Burress is going to prison for two years.

This guy had a permit to carry a gun, but it was expired (and not a permit to carry a gun in New York). His career is ruined for accidentally shooting himself. How utterly stupid. This is predatory behavior on the part of the prosecutor. I hope the people get his ass out of office next time he's up for election.

[begin_within]

116. Nothing is fair in the United States.

The United States has always been about power, class, money and connections. Nothing has ever been fair. And there is no progress in the direction towards fairness either.

[Statistical]

117. unrec for stupidity.

Neither person committed a crime by accidentally shooting someone/himself.

The guy who was shot by Cheney likely could have sued for damages if he wanted to. Plaxico having shot himself well he just had to suffer the stupidity of his actions.

The crime was illegal possession & carry.

Plaxico license was expired.
Even if it wasn't expired it wasn't valid in NYC.
Even if is WAS valid in NYC it wouldn't allow him to carry.
Even if he WAS allowed to carry (special license in NYC) it wouldn't allow him to carry it recklessly.
Even if he WAS carrying it responsibly it wouldn't allow him to carry it into a bar.

If you live/vist NYC you are subject to the laws of NYC. NYC has very strict (one of most strict in the nation) gun laws. Personally I find some of them Unconstitutional and overreaching but until modified or repealed they stand.

He broke the law, pure a simple.

[Octafish]

121. Now I'm glad I posted this.

Burress is paying for his crime with two years of his life.

Cheney is getting away, scot-free.

[Pavulon]

123. String theory is best with Physics

it fails when applied to things like OJ got away because george bush did and if OJ was white be would have been guilty in his first trial???

Burress fired a gun in a crowded club in one of the most anti gun places in the US, it has NOTHING to do with his race, Cheney, or how many porno films jenna jamison has been in..

[hughee99]

136. Come on, what is the world coming to when a guy

without a valid gun license can't carry an unregistered, loaded gun (without the safety on) into a crowded NYC nightclub in his sweatpants waistband and accidentally discharge it?

[slackmaster]

148. Obviously it's a racist world

:grouphug:

[msanthrope]

165. And not just any guy, mind you--an NFL star. What IS the world coming too, I ask??? n/t

[slackmaster]

125. The difference is that Burress got caught violating some of the nation's toughest gun laws

Cheney violated the basic rules of firearm safety, but he was involved in lawful activity at the time.

[Obamanaut]

180. Cheney is getting away scot-free because what he did was not a crime, whereas

Burress did in fact break the law.

This has been explained in this thread several times, and it really isn't that hard to grasp.

One guy broke the law, the other one didn't.

[slackmaster]

124. What crime was Cheney charged for and convicted of?

I haven't heard about it.

Unrec for gratuitous race-baiting.

[Octafish]

129. The Elephant in the Room: Unpunished War Crimes

From what I see, race has a lot to do with the way things are today.

The Elephant in the Room: Unpunished War Crimes

By Juan Cole / September 24, 2010

Joyce Battle at the National Security Archive has used the Freedom of Information Act to spring classified documents from 2001 about the Bush administration’s sneaky plans for getting up an aggressive war on Iraq.

Document 8 contains notes of then Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld prepared for a meeting with CENTCOM commander Gen. Tommy Franks in Tampa, Fl., on November 27, 2001. It shows a plan to pull a lot of troops out of Afghanistan and put them into Iraq and to ‘decapitate’ the Iraqi leadership. (In other words, Rumsfeld planned to abandon some poor GIs fighting al-Qaeda and the Taliban to their fates while putting the money and equipment elsewhere– which got GIs killed).

After all that, the memo sets out points under the heading ‘how start?’, which clearly detail various schemes to start a war under false pretenses, including baiting Saddam into an attack on the Kurds in the north, or breathlessly announcing from the White House that a firm connection had been found between Saddam and Usama Bin Laden. That several such possibilities were listed showed that Rumsfeld did not really care how the war was started, he just wanted that war. And it shows he was entirely willing to manufacture the pretense once it was decided on.

The memo clearly was developed in close consultation with deputy secretary of defense Paul Wolfowitz and his subordinate Douglas Feith, both of them part of the Israel Lobby in the Bush administration, whose obsession with Iraq derived from their right-Zionist commitments.

Rumsfeld’s memo certainly violates the charter of the Nuremberg Tribunal on war crimes:

CONTINUED with LINKS...

http://fluxedupworld.blogspot.com/2010/09/elephant-in-room-unpunished-war-crimes.html

Nothing gratuitous about it. That would be the point.

[HEyHEY]

135. So you support Assange being arrested for rape as a go-around to espionage accusations?

If Cheney should be charge with "Drunken, stupid use of a firearm" or whatever, then charge him with that. You don't arrest him on trumped up charges about quail hunting for war crimes.

You're making me make a legal defence for CHeney, for fuck sakes..... what are you trying to do to the world???!

[slackmaster]

138. That is a Red Herring

Irrelevant to the thread topic.

[Octafish]

145. It is the point of the thread, slackmaster: In the USA, Cheney skates and Plaxico is made scapegoat.

The nation's elite -- the old line white power structure -- can get away with mass murder and warmongering on a global scale because they don't have to give a hoot in hell about anyone but their own, as in their own kind and for their own holdings. The point is the United States of America no longer is a nation where no man is above the law.

[slackmaster]

147. What crime do you think Cheney should have been charged with for that shooting?

Mass murder and warmongering are not the issues you raised in the OP.

[Octafish]

150. Read the OP, slackmaster. You'll see I even provided links.

From the OP:

But, he's Black. And for some, that thought trumps someone being a warmonger, war criminal and traitor.

What Dorothy Parker said also applies.

[slackmaster]

153. The story you linked to describes the incident as a "quail hunting accident"

Not a crime.

What Dorothy Parker said also applies.

Do you mean "If all the girls who attended the Yale prom were laid end to end, I wouldn't be a bit surprised,", or "You don't want to turn into the town drunk, Eddie. Not in Manhattan."?

But, he's Black.

I think you and I might agree that New York City's gun laws are far more strict than they need to be, but I don't believe anybody deserves a break just for being black.

[lonestarnot]

156. Duogh...

A break for "just being black." WTF.

[Octafish]

168. My mistake. It should go to an interview with Ambassador Joseph Wilson.

Joe Wilson, Husband Of Valerie Plame: Dick Cheney Is A 'Traitor' (video)

Sorry about that. FYI: It was in the OP and I tried to transfer into the repost just above.

Regarding Dorothy Parker: When asked to use the word horticulture during a game of "Can-You-Give-Me-A-Sentence," Parker replied: "You can lead a horticulture, but you can’t make her think."

[slackmaster]

169. Ah, so you meant the Dorothy Parker reference as a personal attack

Thanks for the clarification.

I'm quite aware of Dick Cheney's real crimes. You chose a piss-poor pair of events to present as examples of institutionalized racism. You made the bed, now sleep in it.

[Octafish]

171. It isn't about you, slackmaster.

My intention was to make things crystal clear:

There is a double standard in this country. One holds that even a person who harms no one but himself is made to pay with years of his life. The other holds that the elite will get away with mass murder, warmongering and treason.

Nothing personal about it, apart from the fact this same elite gets away while We the People are made to pay.

[slackmaster]

172. Plaxico broke the law. I think it's a bad law, but he knew the law and the penalty for breaking it.

No sympathy.

The other holds that the elite will get away with mass murder, warmongering and treason.

Mass murder, warmongering, and treason are not the issues you raised in the OP. And the subject line of the OP implies that Plaxico was jailed for shooting himself, which is not true.

[Octafish]

174. Read the OP, slackmaster.

It's all there, with links.

[slackmaster]

177. Save your pedantry. It's a poor cover for your vile personal attack.

:nuke:

[Octafish]

178. Good one, slackmaster!

My point is about Cheney getting off. I don't know, nor care, why you keep making my point something else.

[slackmaster]

179. Cheney "got off" for the shooting accident because no crime was committed

:crazy:

[Paladin]

166. Typical DU Gun Enthusiast Stance. (n/t)

[slackmaster]

170. I assume you are referring to having no sympathy for someone who broke the law and is paying for it

Even though he's black.

:hi:

But I'll pose the same question to you that I've been pressing Octafish on, Paladin: What crime did Cheney commit in the incident referred to in the OP?

[Iggo]

137. Plax didn't go to jail for accidentally shooting himself. (n/t)

[Karenina]

141. Na, Du! This is a first!

:wow: ;-)

[Octafish]

152. From one angle, it is the worst thing I've posted, and that is saying something.

From another angle, it clearly shows how many tend to read what they want into something.

Either way, it is surprising to see the amount of hostility for Burress and the hurt feelings over my use of the term WASP.

[Karenina]

154. Are you REALLY surprised?

:loveya::evilgrin::loveya:

Ich wünsche Dir einen guten Rutsch!

Wenn jemand fragt, "Geht's Dir gut?" antworte ich, "Muss." Aber ehrlich meine ich:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_H-LY4Jb2M&feature=related

The text at around 2:45 says it all...

Talkin' 'bout mah g-g-generation! :rofl:

[onenote]

144. I had no idea that Gilbert Arenas is white

He must be, since he was charged with unlawful possession of a handgun and was able to plead out the charge without having to serve any jail time.

Or maybe its because the facts were different, in a different jurisdiction, with differnt laws and thus comparing the two situations would be a mistake. Sort of like comparing Burress and Cheney.

[-..__...]

149. People are ignoring the bigger crime here.

Burress' mother should be arrested and jailed for giving him such an idiotic/ridiculous first name.

Sounds fine for something like an oil company, skin rash ointment or newly discovered planet; but your son!?!

:eyes:

[pitohui]

151. state law -- in some states, just don't carry, they're serious abt this

there are states that are very gun hostile, and even if you shoot yourself, that gets you in trouble, cause it's proof you had a gun

other states, you have a gun, that just shows you're a good ole boy w. good sense like everybody else

i don't put this down to race, if cheney had shot himself in the ass in a club in new york or new jersey he would have to go to jail like everybody else, i don't know, it's just the law in those states

i say don't carry a gun in those states at all unless you're SURE you have the right license and understand all the rules

i think cheney's accident was a slob thing to do, when you hunt, it's your duty to know what you're aiming at, HOWEVAER, accidents are always possible and since the friend accepted it as an accident, at the end of the day i have to accept it as well

cheney feels worse abt shooting his friend in a stupid ass hunting accident than he will ever feel about all his war crimes, won't try to explain the mentality but trust me that's the reality

[NaturalHigh]

158. Right, because carrying a shotgun while out hunting...

is the exactly the same thing as carrying a hangun while out on the town. FAIL isn't even the right word for your post.

[Obamanaut]

160. One was doing illegal stuff, the other not. Seems simple. nt

[AsahinaKimi]

167. Cheney has done far worse and is still free

to roam about the country.

[Wednesdays]

176. Everyone reading this thread should spend some time observing a courtroom

Take some time one afternoon you're off work or school, and be an observer at your local county courthouse. Not big high-profile cases, but everyday stuff like small-time narc possession, DUI, petty larceny, and such. See if African-Americans get treated differently and/or get different sentences from white people, for the same offenses.

I'm not suggesting I know how it'd turn out...even so, the results may be surprising. :shrug: