Partisan gap on immigration reform 'almost irreconcilable,' says Barton

[The Northerner]

A senior House Republican said on Thursday that the ideological differences dividing the parties on the thorny topic of immigration reform are "almost irreconcilable."

While most Republicans want illegal immigrants to be treated as criminals who broke the law, said Rep. Joe Barton (R-Texas), Democratic leaders want "a more lenient policy" allowing some illegal residents to remain an active part of U.S. society.

"We have that basic sticking point — the difference between legal immigration and illegal immigration," Barton told CNN.

The remarks are a bad omen for Democratic immigration-reform supporters — including President Obama — who failed this year to pass targeted changes but are vowing to continue the push in the 112th Congress.

The DREAM Act — which would carve a pathway to permanent residency (and ultimately citizenship) for certain students brought illegally to the U.S. by their parents — passed the House this month but couldn't get the 60 votes required to defeat a GOP filibuster in the Senate. Opponents argued that anyone living illegally in the country — even those brought involuntary as kids — should be treated as a criminal, not rewarded with amnesty and benefits.

Although the Obama administration has been deporting illegal residents at a record clip over the last two years, conservatives say he hasn't gone far enough to stem the tide or control the borders.

Read more: http://thehill.com/homenews/house/135519-barton-partisan-differences-on-immigration-reform-almost-irreconcilable

[elleng]

1. I've thought its a 'killer' issue for a long time.

;(

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

2. Whoever advocates expelling a 17yo raised in the USA, who came as an infant,

lacks humanity.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

3. I think that offering a path to citizenship (somehow) is the best course of action

If people aren't here legally, why not create a way for them to continue to remain here legally? :shrug: Sadly, George W. Bush and, at one point, John McCain, were the most reasonable voices on the issue in the Republican Party. Now that McCain's brain has been melted beyond all recognition by rage, there are no longer any sane voices on the right anymore on this issue. I guess it will be up to the Democrats and President Obama to try to lead on this issue (like everything else). *sigh*

[Hello_Kitty]

7. Republicans only have ever supported immigration because of cheap labor

Here in AZ the business community, who for years has claimed to be deeply concerned about immigration reform, threw the immigrants right under the bus in 2010. All the business groups here endorsed Brewer and the rest of the GOP crew in the election. The business lobbyists are currently kissing up to new Senate President Russell Pearce to get their bills heard. This is the same Pearce who announced that he wants to deny birth certificates to babies born to undocumented immigrants.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

15. They support keeping illegal immigrants "illegal"

"under the table" of course. It makes them easier to oppress and exploit. Whatever awful feelings I have about George W. Bush, I believe that he had the right sort of idea when it came to addressing this issue. If we can figure out some sort of way to offer them the means and encouragement for them to gain legitimate citizenship, I think that it will ultimately help improve their situation.

[ThomCat]

4. It is a damned shame that many people in our own party

are supporting the republican position. :(

Unless you are a Native American, we are all, to some extent, illegal immigrants. Even if our parents came through Ellis Island and had all the papers to prove it, if we live(d) on stolen land, benefited from broken treaties, have using energy drilled and extracted from their land, then we all have a responsibility to be somewhat lenient about immigration. We still have too many unpaid debts because of our own illegal immigration to get self-righteous over someone else coming over a border.

This nation was founded and settled by people who came here from somewhere else, expanded rapidly across the continent in violation of every treaty, and refused to recognize borders.

So let's just be calm and stop thinking that a border is some absolute moral absolute. We are a nation of people who moved around. Always have been. So let's find a way to absorb some more in a way that is peaceful, kind, and beneficial to all of us.

[Forkboy]

5. ....

:hug:

[Hello_Kitty]

6. How many people do you think our country can absorb?

You are expressing a lovely sentiment but we can't let an unlimited number of immigrants into our country and still maintain a semblance of a social safety net and a minimum wage.

[ThomCat]

10. What arbitrary number are you going to set?

And how do you know what that number is?

If you are going to say that our country cannot absorb any people above a certain number, that sounds like a population cap. Not just an immigration cap. But we have never, ever had a political discussion about having ANY policies placing a firm cap or even trying to slow the growth of our total population.

Suddenly creating an arbitrary cap only for the sake of argument, only to keep out illegal immigrants, without any intent to apply that same cap to any other areas of public policy would be a sham.

If you don't care about our total population, and work to implement a total population cap with regard to urban and suburban sprawl, over-development, blight, and sustainability issues, then any talk about keeping out immigrants because talk about there being too many people really ends up sounding like xenophobia and racism.

[Hello_Kitty]

11. Are you opposed to unions? eom

[ThomCat]

13. What the hell do unions have to do with this?

I've always been a strong supporter of unions.

[Hello_Kitty]

14. So then you know immigrant labor is used to bust unions, right?

What do you think happened to the meatpacking and construction industries?

Although, there are some valiant efforts to unionize and stop the exploitation of immigrant workers (both documented and not) http://washingtonindependent.com/96411/workers-rebuilding-new-orleans-face-rampant-wage-theft

The point is that simply increasing the number of people who can legally enter the country to work is not going to stop the abuses by greedy businessmen trying to get the cheapest and most pliable labor they can get.

[ThomCat]

16. High unemployment is far more important for busting unions.

High unemployment means there are always a lot of people desperate for jobs, willing to cross picket lines.

Are you going to scapegoat anyone else, or are you only willing to blame people who cross borders?

Your racism is showing.

[ThomCat]

17. You know, attacking immigrants for what the business owners

do is really sleazy. The business owners are playing class warfare, trying to get poor people of different racial and ethnic groups to hate each other. That has ALWAYS been standard procedure, to turn workers against each other so that they won't turn their attention against management.

Here you are doing exactly that, exactly what they want, blaming the poorest of the poor instead of management. That is really pathetic.

Do you realize that the very people you are attacking are a strongest growth community for unions? While unions are fighting to retain strength, some groups of Spanish speaking workers have been fighting hard to unionize, helping to keep unions strong. So unions are actively recruiting Hispanic workers in low wage fields, including undocumented workers. And, yes, that includes Meat Packing and Construction.

If you actually listen to unions, they support providing ways for undocumented immigrants to become citizens, because that is what their members want, and because it is good for the unions.

So before you go spouting this shit about undocumented immigrants being bad for unions, you really should go get a clue. Right now you clearly don't have one. All you have is really obvious hatred on display.

[Hello_Kitty]

18. I think I've been pretty clear that the problem is with the business owners.

Here in AZ they helped just about every single pro-SB1070 Republican candidate get elected. They picked tax cuts over their immigrant workers.

Here you are doing exactly that, exactly what they want, blaming the poorest of the poor instead of management. That is really pathetic

Uh, what was I doing? Blaming the poorest of the poor? Hardly. I was, and am, blaming management. Management: sucks at their jobs and are evil. Poor people: doing what they need to do to survive.

[ThomCat]

19. Not on this thread anyplace. You have only been attacking

immigrants, repeatedly, throughout this thread. You really need to go back and look at the attacks and scapegoating you are doing in your posts. :(

[Hello_Kitty]

20. No, that is bullshit. You need to re-read my posts.

And realize that at no time have I blamed immigrants for anything.

[ThomCat]

21. Really?

Claiming that immigrants are "too many people" when somehow we don't seem to have too many people if there is no mention of immigration? That is blaming immigrants for a problem you only attribute to them.

You outright blame immigrants for supposed union-busting. That was only 2 posts ago.

Bullshit? Really? :eyes:

[Hello_Kitty]

22. Nope, I blamed their employers.

I always have, and will always.

[ThomCat]

23. I'm glad to hear it.

So when do you go back and edit those posts?

[Hello_Kitty]

24. Go back and read my posts.

You will not find me blaming the workers, ever.

[Andy823]

8. It's a bunch of bull!

The fact is republicans use the "illegal" immigration problem as one of their "wedge issues" every election. They make all kinds of "claims" about closing the border, sending them all back, etc., but in reality they do NOTHING at all when they are in charge to stop the problem. Those who "contribute" the big money WANT an illegal work force to keep wages down, and so they don't have to pay any benefits. It's all about more profits for them, and if there were any kind of "real" reform, and illegals were made legal, the new legal workers could not be exploited like they are now.

We need to go after the employers, as the current administration has been doing, and make fines so high they either stop hiring illegals, or they go to jail! When the employers know they can not exploit an illegal work force any longer, then "REAL" reform can happen.

[Hello_Kitty]

12. The problem is that employer sanctions have been rendered toothless against employers

The business community has made sure the standard of proof that one is "knowingly" hiring undocumented workers is impossibly high.

[Rage for Order]

9. We've already done it once

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Reform_and_Control_Act_of_1986#Effect_upon_the_labor_market">24 years ago, including amnesty

Why should we trust our politicians to do it again? Why should we not think that we'll still have the same issues in another 25 years?