They've been dehumanized.

[onecaliberal]

[Johnny2X2X]

2. Yes it has

You don’t member the war in Gaza that has forced over 1 Million people to flee to Rafah? They were ordered to leave the North by Israel and most fled to Rafah. There are 1.3M people there now, most living in tents and without running water or food.

[FSogol]

3. Thanks for the info. n/t

[Johnny2X2X]

4. You're welcome

It’s a terrible situation.

[FSogol]

5. Agreed. n/t

[DENVERPOPS]

22. Terrible??????

It's horrific and will go down in History as Genocide, plain as day...........

And the jewish people are all up in arms, but can't seem to rid themselves of Netanyahu, every bit as corrupt as Trump and the Republican Party here in the U.S.

Trump, Putin, NKorea, Saudis, the Republican Politicians, China are all watching Bennie and drooling for their chance to do the same here to our beloved USA, Our Constitution, and our Democracy.......

On November 5-6 we will most likely witness a cataclysmic situation, far worse than anything in the entire history of the U.S.

Katie Bar The Door.......WASF

[TomDaisy]

60. .

[Coventina]

6. So tell Hamas to surrender and return the hostages. n/t

[LuvLoogie]

16. ... or the kid gets it

No wonder Netanyahu is still in charge.

[Coventina]

21. Plenty of kids were massacred by Hamas in the Oct. 7th attacks.

Those that were taken as hostages deserve to be freed and live too.

[LuvLoogie]

23. So keep shooting until Netanyahu

runs out of ammo or until the Palestinians run out of kids.

Got it.

[Coventina]

26. Jewish lives mean nothing. Got it. n/t

[LuvLoogie]

30. How many Hamas are left?

How many dog tags collected so far?

Wanton revenge is a poor substitute for justice.

Bulldozers are a negotiating tactic I suppose.

[LeftInTX]

43. Seven missiles fired at Israel today from Gaza. It's daily.

Hamas doesn't care.

https://rocketalert.live/

[Cuthbert Allgood]

115. So what Israel is doing isn't working?

[TomDaisy]

62. and collective punishment is a textbook war crime

[wnylib]

110. It's the Hamas underground network system that Israel is targeting,

so Israel counts the pieces of that network destroyed, not the Hamas terrorists.

Without its underground system of communications and storage of weapons and food, Hamas military capacity is crippled. So is their ability to hide beneath their own civilians.

[PatSeg]

116. So tens of thousands of innocent civilians,

predominantly women and children, must die so Netanyahu can attack Hamas? If bank robbers hold innocent people hostage, the police don't bomb the bank so they can get the bad guys.

The idea that so many can just be considered collateral damage in a war against terrorists is insane. Going after terrorists is more of an intelligence and special ops situation and Israel's Mossad is one of the best intelligence agencies in the world. Total warfare against an entire people is more of a political ploy on Netanyahu's part, it certainly is no solution.

[LeftInTX]

117. I agree. I don't agree with all the 2,000 lb bombs which has caused so much destruction.

If they can get the tunnels, they will cripple Hamas.

[soldierant]

120. Every "retaliation" from Israel

creates new recruits for Hamas. That's the way it works.

[TomDaisy]

61. Genocide is Netanyahu's plan. Got it. n/t

[iemanja]

66. How many dead Palestinians are necessary

for you to feel satisfied that Jewish lives have value? Your reaction seems strange to me. Concern for the lives of over a million people in Rafah does NOT by any stretch of the imagination mean the lives in Israel don't have value, yet you assume it does. Why?

[DemocraticPatriot]

102. No, actually every Jewish Israeli life seems to be worth about 20 or 30

Palestinian lives.

GOT IT.

[OrangeJoe]

37. Operation Lavender, Where's Daddy?

Here's a report by an Israeli human rights group detailing the war crime atrocities committed by the IDF. Read it all to get the full impact. The short version is this: The IDF uses cell phone location data that it has on Hamas members. They then wait for the member to return to his home and family and then bomb the house usually killing everyone inside the building. They even have a crude formula that allows for 15 civilian casualties for a low level foot soldier and up to 100 innocent lives in the case of a Hamas commander. War criminals for sure.
https://www.972mag.com/lavender-ai-israeli-army-gaza/?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email

[Happy Hoosier]

24. Did the allies refrain from invading Berlin in 1945?

The bad guys are where the kids are. That’s why war sucks. Yet Hamas started this one?

[Hassin Bin Sober]

31. Hamas did some really heinous shit.

But you certainly aren’t going to compare Hitler’s 13 million man army and some terrorists on motorcycles and hang gliders, are you?

[Happy Hoosier]

32. Hitler's army was destroyed by April 1945

Berlin was defended by old men and boys, and a few SS fanatics. My mom was a 7 year old kid living in Berlin at the time. The stories she tells of that time are hair-raising.

The atrocities committed on Oct 7 are right up there on the “war crimes” list.

[LuvLoogie]

108. Yeah, Hamas' Panzer divisions and Luftwaffe are a bitch.

And yet Germany was a state and remains a state.

[Redleg]

109. Please stop with the WWII analogies

We have much better technology and tactics these days than the allies had in 1945. We also have a better understanding and legal basis for what constitutes just actions in war.

[Tickle]

74. 👍

[DemocraticPatriot]

101. So tell Netanyahoo to quit and surrender to the world court n/t

they can all hang together

[SharonAnn]

118. Exactly!

[mzmolly]

7. Where is Egypt?

What about Jordan?

https://apnews.com/article/palestinian-jordan-egypt-israel-refugee-502c06d004767d4b64848d878b66bd3d

I'm not supporting a reckless war, but the fact that other countries in the area refuse to assist is puzzling.

[Coventina]

8. They refuse to help because they want Israel to look bad.

Oil rich Arab states could send the Palestinians billions, but they don't.

[sir pball]

19. Or maybe because Hamas/the Muslim Brotherhood are banned in Egypt...

They're understandably leery of taking in any groups that might allow Hamas to infiltrate them, again.

Can't say I blame them given that whole Morsi debacle (not that anyone was really in the right there, TBF).

Of course they also don't want to see a permanent Gazan displacement, but I always felt that's more of a nicety than actual concern — even permanent migration beats genocide, if you care about a group. That can at least maybe be undone.

[mzmolly]

20. One would think they could set up camps along the borders?

I am certain there would be much involved but to deny any help is beyond me.

[Richard D]

27. Gaza has received billions . . .

. . . unfortunately, much, if not all, of it has been gobbled up by Hamas.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_aid_to_Palestinians

[Coventina]

29. Mostly from the US and Europe.

My point is that the ARAB states COULD change the plight of the Palestinians, either through shutting down Hamas, giving money, a combo of both.

But they don't.

No one seems to ask why? (Out loud, on the global stage)

[Richard D]

35. True. It is a good question.

Qatar did send around a billion. Qatar supports Hamas. The more sane Arabic states do not.

Now it looks like our borders may be opened to Palestinian refugees. What could possibly go wrong with that????

[mzmolly]

114. Ugh.

[JCMach1]

9. Egypt is literally right there and could evacuate women and children

In just a few hours/days.

So yes, they are very complicit.

[David__77]

75. Egypt may not wish to take Israel's refugees. Gaza people are in the homeland now,.

[BannonsLiver]

11. They're not interested in taking male teenagers and young men, apparently.

Separating them from women and children would probably be required in their eyes. Lots of vetting would be necessary.

[JCMach1]

103. Bottom line is they are doing nothing about the humanitarian

Crisis...

I fully understand their reasoning, but it is just as calculated as what the Israeli government is doing.

[FlyingPiggy]

104. I think this is a big flag worthy of more assessment and discussion

[maxsolomon]

10. I don't know that I "support" an invasion of Rafah.

But I don't think my support or non-support is relevant.

It's going to happen unless Hamas starts making concessions in their ceasefire negotiations and stops shooting for the moon on terms (not to mention playing PR games on accepting new proposals that Israel didn't negotiate on).

Hamas deliberately provoked Israel into an overreaction, and clearly, Biden cannot persuade Netanyahu to back down from the plan. Even if we hold arms deliveries back.

[COL Mustard]

12. I don't think that Hamas

Has made a serious cease fire offer. They are stalling and they don’t give a fuck about either the hostages or Palestinian civilians.

[keithbvadu2]

34. Hamas also believes it is ok to kill off the lower classes of their own people for the righteous cause.

Hamas also believes it is ok to kill off the lower classes of their own people for the righteous cause.

How much does Hamas care about the lives of ordinary Gazans/Palestinians?

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218683807

Hamas commander on why terror group attacks civilians

CBS-""You had to have known that there would have been Israel's response, that Palestinians would suffer as a result."
A- "We are not pleased with that, but this is the path of armed struggle."
-----------------------

Certainly not the families of Hamas elite.

Hamas leader and family escape through their tunnels.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218686776

Hamas uses civilians as human shields, Gazan journalist states

[Shermanator]

14. Israel is responsible for its own actions

I regard the Israeli government no different than Hamas. They're both terrorist organizations.

[jimfields33]

51. Israel is in the same boat as Ukraine.

Both were targeted unfairly.

[Shermanator]

57. And if Ukraine was slaughtering Russian children

Do you think any of us would be behind them? We support Ukraine because they seem like the good guys. That could change quick if they start going after Russian children.

[Cha]

98. When is Genocidal Gang Rapists Hamas Going to

take Responsibility for the whole Shit War they Started?

[demmiblue]

13. The ghouls don't care.

In fact, they are probably cheering it on.

[Cha]

97. Yes the Bloodthirsty, Genocidal Terrorist Org Hamas

are fucking GHOULS

Link to tweet

[tritsofme]

17. Plenty have made it pellucidly clear how they feel about Jews, in all contexts.

[Avalon Sparks]

25. And plenty have made it clear how they feel about Palestinians.

What’s your point?

[Tickle]

63. I think the point is

if Hamas hadn't attacked Israel, the dead would be alive and the Palestinians would not be homeless and covering from bombs

[iemanja]

70. There were many Palestinians being killed before Oct 7, 2023

Pretending that was the beginning of the killing is factually inaccurate.

[Tickle]

71. Who was killing Palestinians

before Oct 7?

[iemanja]

72. Israel, the IDF

As an occupying army. How is this news to you?

[Tickle]

73. Apparently I live under a rock

Do you have a link about Israelis killing Palestinians?
I'm not being sarcastic. I would like to read it

[iemanja]

77. Here is a Wikipedia summary with numbers

through 1921. It includes Palestinians killed but not only by the IDF, but since 1948 Israel has been involved in most of them. Before then it was the British. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_casualties_of_war

[Tickle]

80. Did you read what you sent me?

This is a Wikipedia and it's casualties inflicted by combat. With some casualties under dispute.
Basically you can't prove what you said. Ok I got it

[iemanja]

81. What?

It shows that the IDF has killed Palestinians in conflicts before Oct 7, 2023. You said you were unaware of any casualties before that time. What did you think I was saying?

[Tickle]

83. The Wikipedia in itself is

unreliable. It talks about combat. Let's just stop here. There's no proof Israelis were going around killing Palestinians but you get an A for trying

[iemanja]

85. Wikipedia is unreliable

so you say, because you have chosen to remain willfully uninformed about history. Wikipedia did not invent wars. That is on you, not Wikipedia.

[Tickle]

86. 😂😂😂 enjoy your day NT

[iemanja]

87. You've been given ample evidence

and now you run away. That says a great deal.

[Tickle]

90. You gave me a Wikipedia

Then I got conflict statistics on killings between both countries. Both Israelis and Palestinians got killed.

[iemanja]

92. This is not two countries

Palestine is not a country. And the article shows MANY more Palestinians were killed by the IDF than vice versa. You said no Palestinians were killed by Israel before Oct 7, 2023. That clearly was false. Moreover, your repeated and mistaken use of the term "two countries" indicates you have no idea what the conflict in question is about. I suggest you take a little time to do some reading on the historical background of the region.

[Tickle]

96. Thank you for admitting the deaths

were part of a conflict. Some may call it war. You seem angry because more Palestinians have died. One death is one too many

[iemanja]

79. Since that Wikipedia page is labeled casualties of war

I don't think it includes the daily deaths that occur when, for example, Palestinian ambulances are denied access through check points, or young people are shot for being suspected of something or another. Palestinians live under an apartheid state, locked behind walls, and they are subject to violence all the time. I don't mean to excuse Hamas' behavior on Oct. 7. It was horrific. It did, however, come out of a very difficult context of oppression. Needless to say, Hamas is doing nothing to help the plight of the Palestinian people.

[Tickle]

82. I guess you have no link

I'm trying to understand but I see nothing that comes close to Israelis killing Palestinians

[iemanja]

84. Here is a sample since 2000

https://www.vox.com/2014/7/14/5898581/chart-israel-palestine-conflict-deaths

[Tickle]

88. It talks about, once again conflict between the two countries

Let's call it a night.

[iemanja]

89. Palestine isn't a country

It's territory occupied by Israel. That's what the whole dispute is about. Palestine would like statehood.

[Tickle]

91. You are correct

Remove country put in territory and the two state and territory have conflicts and they both die

[questionseverything]

106. Settlers, stealing land

[Prairie Gates]

18. One of our great humanists may post the results of the 2006 Gaza election again

It's just taking facts from Wikipedia, no implication at all, doncha know?

[Richard D]

28. Don't forget . . .

. . . Hamas returns the hostages, and the war is over.

This is all on Hamas.

Listen to this conversation between an Israeli warning a family to vacate and the head of the family. Summary: "We won't leave. We want to die."

https://pbs.twimg.com/ext_tw_video_thumb/1787529985323900928/pu/img/ye1Nce8JSLbfzyeX?format=jpg&name=900x900

[Shermanator]

41. You're naive

Whether or not the hostages are returned the Palestinians will be killed because neither Hamas nor the Israeli government give a damn about them. Both Hamas and the Israeli government are terrorist organizations and the Palestinians are caught in the middle of their ongoing war.

[Richard D]

45. I so hope . . .

. . . I get a chance to prove you wrong.

[Shermanator]

52. There are no good guys here

The Israeli government is no different from Hamas. It's the bloods fighting the crips and the Palestinians are caught in the middle.

[Richard D]

100. So sorry . . .

. . . but it sounds like you know very little about Israel or Palestine.

[Oneironaut]

111. +1

It would go from “Return the hostages” to, “We must prevent Hamas from doing the same thing again!” Both sides (Hamas, Likud) want war, as, it’s very convenient for them.

Hamas forces their citizens to be soldiers and kills them if they don’t listen. Also, Bibi is deeply unpopular and needs this war to hold onto power.

[Eko]

50. Didnt Bibi say that even with the release of the hostages

They wont stop till Hamas is destroyed?
Netanyahu: 'We'll pause Gaza war for hostage deal, but won't end it'
"Netanyahu, however, has clarified, including on Sunday, that he has no intention of relenting on the issue of a permanent ceasefire until Hamas has been destroyed. That can not happen until the IDF executes a military operation in Rafah.

“Israel will not agree to Hamas's demands, which would mean surrender; it will continue fighting until all of its objectives are achieved,” he stated."

[iemanja]

67. Really?

What makes you think that returning the hostages would satisfy Netanyahu? He refused the last offer of a cease fire.

[PeaceWave]

33. Where was the outrage when Hamas was firing missiles at Israel...

Or do these "protestors" place a lesser value on the lives of Jewish children?

[Shermanator]

36. After the attack on October 7th

Israel had most of the world behind them and they threw all that goodwill away by showing a total disregard for the lives of the Palestinians. They're no different than Hamas.

[Cha]

94. Genocidal Gang Rapist Hamas are Sick Fucks.

Link to tweet

[Hope22]

40. Peacewave...look for the love..

There has always been great concern for the Jewish children. So many children trapped in this war. This war is insanity. For everyone in harms way, my thoughts are for the violence to stop. Nothing is proven by any child being killed. They deserve safety, love and care. Can we get to that part now?

[Hope22]

48. I don't know who they is.

This killing of people needs to stop. More killing solves nothing! I’m for children of every color, religion, race. They deserve a life of safety and protection. I no longer put up with people discussing children like objects. Enough!

[onecaliberal]

55. K&R

🫶🏻

[Richard D]

53. Ah yes . . .

. . . the old bloodthirsty Jew trope.

[Shermanator]

56. I call them like I see them

The Israeli government is a terrorist organization.

[Cha]

93. No It isn't, Shermanator.. Fucking Genocidal Bloodthirsty

Hamas is the Terrorist Organization.

[onecaliberal]

54. Hear, hear. I am and have advocated for the innocent in every corner of the planet.

We all deserve that.

[Hope22]

107. I really thought nothing could make me cry anymore

But these heartless ba$#@rds have fixed that. So sick of the killers doing just that and then trying to justify it! IMO all of this traces back to the orange monster. The secrets he sold have unleashed hell on earth! Stay safe. Peace and love to you!💗💗🙏🏼

[iemanja]

69. There was WIDESPREAD outrage at those events

and you know it. Yet you can't manage any concern for the lives of those being killed as we speak.

[FakeNoose]

38. Why is he scolding the American citizens, when we're not even in this war?

He should be scolding the other Arab countries (Saudi Arabia, UAE, Syria, Jordan, Qatar, etc.) to bring pressure against Hamas. We don't have a dog in this hunt ... they DO!

It's the indifference of the Arab "brothers" that have brought us to this point. They could have solved this Palestinian problem shortly after the 1967 war, but they looked the other way. That's all they ever do.

It's not up to us to solve their problems.

[thucythucy]

47. They could have easily enabled the creation of a Palestinian state

before the 1967 war.

Instead, in 1948 Jordan annexed and occupied the West Bank, and Egypt annexed and occupied Gaza.

Their governments only began calling for an end to the occupation of those territories when their own occupations were ended.

[FakeNoose]

58. Exactly! Other than Egypt they are still looking away to this day

But once again we're getting blamed, and we're made to feel we have to fix their problems.

[onecaliberal]

68. We fund a lot of things for that country, so yeah, we're looked to.

[iemanja]

65. "We're not even in this war"

It's our tax dollars paying to kill those children. You can pretend our hands are clean, but they are not. Why do you suppose there are protests throughout the nation? Do you think that are imagining a US connection?

Not to mention that this site contains no small number of people who justify on a daily basis the bloodshed taking place in Rafah, as this thread demonstrates.

[Warpy]

39. You need to remember the rest of the picture

Last edited Tue May 7, 2024, 08:33 PM - Edit history (1)

Hamas has always hudden behind women and kids, hospitals, power plants, food warehouses, anywhere they think no one will come to get them because of the collateral damage.

Remember this conflict is one big war crime and it's been and is being perpetrated by both sides.

Please don't forget that. Yes, Netanyahu and his hard liners need to go ASAP. So does Hamas and their hard liners, also ASAP

There will be no winners in this conflict, just innocent dead, a destroyed city, and a country that has alienated most of its friends around the planet.

(Well, maybe Putin will win, he got the world's attention off Ukraine for a few months and managed to get aid from the US delayed by TFG)

[Beastly Boy]

42. Why is it that every single mention of dead gazan children and civilians glosses over tha fact that

over 30,000 armed to the teeth terrorists, hundreds of their rocket launchers and dozens command and control centers were hiding behind the kids' backs while taking part in military hostilities?

Why is it so inconceivable for so many people to concede that all those militants, their rockets, drones, RPGs and machine guns had something to do with the children being dead?

Inconceivable or bluntly hypocritical?

[sheshe2]

95. It is an inconvenient truth.

One that some refuse to see, admit or acknowledge.

[Cha]

99. Rec.. TY Tragic Excellent questions.

[PeaceWave]

46. The terrorist playbook has always included using their own women and children as human shields.

[Butterflylady]

59. I don't see how anyone can still say that.

In the beginning that was true. But hey, so many have been killed and will be killed that I don't see it anymore.

It's been 8 months of killing and I apologize for being concerned about the lives taken on BOTH sides.

[Beastly Boy]

112. It is as true today as it was in the beginning.

Just because so few are saying this doesn't make it any less true.

There is a certain narrative being promoted in the media (and how this is being accomplished is another untold story worth paying attention to) that leaves the criminals out of it.

You can see the residue of this narrative in your post. It expresses concern for all lives on both sides, yet this concern is preceded by an implicit absolution of responsibility for taking those lives on the only side that keeps engaging in the activities that put civilian lives at risk, the only side that can end this criminal practice at will and spare thousands of lives, but does not. The rationale for this oversight is rather perplexing: you don't see civilians being exploited as human shields anymore because so many of them have been killed.

I have no doubt that this narrative is not entirely of your own making - I've hear it from a multitude of sources, with only slight variations. It lacks reason and sense. As a point of departure, it takes for granted a grossly oversimplified and distorted picture of the nature of civilian casualties in Gaza. It presumes this picture, without explanation or room for questions, to be the only accepted framework in examining these deaths, it denies the significance (or in many cases the existence) of the parts left out of this narrative, and it inescapably leads those who buy into it to a single, one-dimentional and entirely false, conclusion: But... Israel.

And in this fatally flawed narrative, "both sides" serves no other purpose than an obligatory disclaimer to insure plausible deniability.

[Faux pas]

49. Kickin'

[iemanja]

64. The responses to this thread

confirm your OP.

[David__77]

76. It is so obvious Israels forces consider the lives those children as worthless.

[Wounded Bear]

78. It's one of the first thing they do in war, dehumanize the enemy...nt

[PeaceWave]

105. 10/7/2023 is a day that now lives in infamy alongside 12/7/1941 and 9/11/2001

Absent Hamas' unconditional surrender, there will be no justice for those savagely taken from their families on that day.

[onecaliberal]

113. We clearly and quite literally learned NOTHING from 9-11.

[Oopsie Daisy]

119. The Hamas cowards are to blame for hiding among civilians and using them as human shields.

In doing so, Hamas is the one who has made them legitimate targets. Hamas has "dehumanized" them by using them as shields. Hamas is responsible for their deaths. Hamas does not care if innocents die. They do not care! That's why they hide among them. Hamas has willingly and willfully and knowingly put civilians in harm's way. Hamas is to blame. Only Hamas is to blame.