Changes from Visa mean Americans will carry fewer credit, debit cards

[BumRushDaShow]

Source: VOA/AP

May 18, 2024 1:59 AM


NEW YORK — Your wallet may soon be getting thinner. Visa on Wednesday announced major changes to how credit and debit cards will operate in the U.S. in the coming months and years. The new features could mean Americans will be carrying fewer physical cards in their wallets, and will make the 16-digit credit or debit card number printed on every card increasingly irrelevant.

They will be some of the biggest changes to how payments operate in the U.S. since the U.S. rolled out chip-embedded cards several years ago. They also come as Americans have many more options to pay for purchases beyond "credit or debit," including buy now, pay later companies, peer-to-peer payment options, paying directly with a bank, or digital payment systems such as Apple Pay.

"I think (with these features) we're getting past the point where consumers may never need to manually enter an account number ever again," said Mark Nelsen, Visa's global head of consumer payments. The biggest change coming for Americans will be the ability for banks to issue one physical payment card that will be connected to multiple bank accounts. That means no more carrying, for example, a Bank of America or Chase debit card as well as their respective credit cards in a physical wallet.

Americans will be able to set criteria with their bank — such as having all purchases below $100 or with a certain merchant applied to the debit card, while other purchases go on the credit card. The feature, already being used in Asia, will be available this summer. Buy now, pay later company Affirm is the first of Visa's customers to roll out the feature in the U.S.

Read more: https://www.voanews.com/a/changes-from-visa-mean-americans-will-carry-fewer-credit-debit-cards-/7615768.html

[underpants]

1. Interesting. I'll let others discuss the consumerism element here. But I heard that checks don't need to be endorsed any

I heard it on a radio show.

This is all I could find on it.

Do I always have to endorse a check?

Some banks will accept a check with no endorsement. There might be a dollar amount limit to this service or a hold on the funds for longer than normal, but some banks will do it.

You’ll need to verify your identity when you deposit the check. Keep in mind that certain types of checks may require an endorsement even if your bank doesn’t.

https://www.huntington.com/learn/checking-basics/how-to-endorse-a-check

[sybylla]

11. So not true in WI.

My multiple accts for personal, business, and non-profit all require sigs on front. Mobile deposit requires them on the back.

If you deposit paper cks, they don't need a sig but the banks stamp them saying they were deposited into your acct.

[LauraInLA]

15. Chase in CA requires endorsement, whether in the bank or electronically deposited on my phone.

[eggplant]

24. My bank allows me to deposit checks made out to me into my own accounts without me signing the check.

Of course, the person/company that issued the check will need to have signed it.

The only exception to this that I've personally encountered is one year I inadvertently failed to sign my check to the IRS when I filed. It was cashed through my bank without any questions. But I consider that to be an extraordinary situation.

Per https://www.bankersonline.com/qa/what-makes-check-legal a signature is required (by the payor).

[lastlib]

25. When I worked at IRS, some taxpayer literally...

wrote a check on a shirt. (To "prove" that the IRS was taking the shirt off his back....) We cashed it, and it cleared his bank. It had everything legally necessary to be a negotiable instrument---the routing number, the account number, his signature, a valid payee....

When the government/Army was being "hammered" for paying $400 for actual hammers, some smart-ass taxpayer tried to pay a $1600 tax bill with four hammers. He got a visit from the criminal investigation division.

[eggplant]

39. Yeah, unless the hammers included the requirements to make them a valid check, thanks for playing.

As far as I understand, you can't just submit random items "worth" the equivalent amount, without a prior agreement. I could imagine the IRS agreeing that some tangible items had sufficient worth, and thus was a valid payment, but not random hammers.

In my case, I was surprised that the bank honored it, but at the same time, if they hadn't, I would have been delinquent on paying my taxes, and would be stirring up drama which wouldn't go in my favor. It was a totally honest mistake. I had taken my entire return (back in the paper return days) to work and copied every page, including the check, then sealed the envelope and mailed it. Only AFTER it was down the mail chute did I look at the copy and notice that I never signed the check.

On an unrelated note, I recall a story about some company mailing "marketing" checks to people that were meant to show how much they would save on something, etc, but that technically constituted a valid check, as it referred to an actual bank, with correct routing and account numbers, and had a valid endorsement and dollar figure, so people were able to legally cash the checks without obligation. Oops. Nowadays, there will be a contract written on the back stating that endorsing and cashing constituted an agreement of some sort, but still.

[PCIntern]

51. I'm just curious, nothing more:

When I make out a check I reflexively sign it as part of the process of making it out, like writing the date and the amount. May I ask your process rationale for not signing it immediately or was it just an oversight…like you were interrupted. I ask because I am always interested in how other people approach tasks and occasionally modify my behavior because others do something that makes sense that I hadn’t thought of. Thanks!

[eggplant]

54. I'm sure it was an oversight.

It certainly wasn't intentional.

[eggplant]

41. This is a nice clip explaining why $400 hammers exist (well, ashtrays, but still)

(from The West Wing)

[Shipwack]

44. I've heard an alternative reason for overpriced items...

Don't remember where I read it, but someone said on the internet (so it must be true!) that these items don't actually exist. Instead, this is a way for various agencies to finance secret special operations without requiring a budget request...

Also, former submariner here, but even back then we didn't have glass ashtrays on boats. smoking is usually (though not necessarily always) restricted to one or two locations, and there were built-in ashtrays there that wouldn't go flying anywhere. My first trip punching holes was on the USS Daniel Webster, back in '89 (not sure of exact year). I know smoking was more prevalent in the 70s. A few subs tried going smokeless in the 90s, but that experiment failed. Not sure if it is allowed now, though.

This was standard throughout the fleet and different on every ship...

[NanaCat]

45. Whoever told you that is full of it.

I was in the USAF, and I worked with people who were on the original procurement teams for everything from the latest gee whiz jets to plain old radios.

Nearly every single outrageous line item on those lists were defence contractor rip-off attempts, and had nothing to do with spying. Those procurement teams were the military reviewing the process of new items they were considering--and they had nothing to do with setting the lists. That was all the defence contractors.

That's why the procurement teams saw things like a radio's mounting bolts for $34,000, rather the less than $50 set one could find through other suppliers. The contractors marked it up to rip off some more profit than they already were getting.

As my ex-supervisor said about his procurement role, 'I tried to weed out as much of that nonsense as I could, but we were plowing through literally thousands of pages of this stuff. There's no way you can catch all of it. You're lucky to catch the blatant stuff, like I did the titanium bolts.'

That's what the real problem is--based on the testimony of people who were actually there to witness it...rather than the evidence-free musings of the paranoid.

[Shipwack]

47. Whoa... Relax! I'm sorry I hit a nerve.

I was just having a bit of fun... Didn't mean to get anyone upset.

[Delphinus]

2. Interesting

I look forward to hearing what other people say, as I'm a bit old school on this, still sending checks in some cases. And I've never used Venmo and some of these newer ways of paying.

[Random Boomer]

5. My capacity for tech changes is close to exhausted

I'm old enough now to find these kinds of changes... challenging.

And I say that as a fairly technically-literate person. I built my own desktop computer, I worked in an IT-adjacent job for decades (as account manager for customer software support services).

[XanaDUer2]

8. Mine too nt

[Martin68]

21. Random, you sound like my Dad. He swore he'd never buy a CD after recording all his LPs on

cassette tapes. Next thing I knew he owned 300 CDs. My parents resisted replacing their rotary dial phone, or even supplementing it, with a dial tone phone. I begged them to get one because I couldn't access flight info on their phone without one (this was before cell phones came out). 10 years later they added a touch tone phone. My Dad put off getting a cell phone or a computer for years, but when he finally did, he loved the internet. He died at the age of 92 in 2015,

Myself, I'm usually a fairly late adopter, waiting to make sure the bugs are out before investing in new technology - although I bought early digital cameras right away because I love photography. I didn't regret putting off getting a smartphone, but now I depend on one.

[Maeve]

49. I understand and sympathize

My 93-year old Mom has never had a debit or ATM card, CD or DVD player (quit updating with VHS) and had a cell phone "for emergency use only" until she moved to assisted living (only a landline, now). She also gave up using her computer last year (which she only ever used for Facebook and had to have me to download pictures or delete the "blue screen of spam" she'd get from hitting unsafe links.
I had to be pushed to use text messaging and later to smartphone--since the pandemic, I am in a bank maybe twice a year, instead of several times a month (remote deposit, I love you!) and last year when we went to Ireland, Hubby left his cameras home and we took all our pictures on the phones.
The credit/debit card issue doesn't concern me--we use two "cash back" cards for almost all our purchases, paid off each month, never use debit feature

[True Dough]

52. Martin,

if your grades don't improve, you'll be grounded all summer.

(*More memories of Dad)

[jimfields33]

17. I use Zelle for receiving payments for my business. It's incredibly easy.

[womanofthehills]

33. I use Zelle and PayPal

My grandson texted me yesterday and asked me to give him his birthday money a week early thru PayPal. I just texted him back - request it - so I just had to go on PayPal and press pay. It makes life easy.

[jimfields33]

35. That's awesome! I do love new technology.

[onetexan]

42. Likewise. Zelle service is free with my bank.

[SWBTATTReg]

3. Oh yes, this so called Industry Leader is going to spearhead the next generational concept in credit

cards and the use of credit.

I'll believe it when I see it in 10 years or so. More hype.

If one can, pay off everything and get out of debt, but do incur a little bit of debt, and pay it off promptly, so you'll have access to a credit line of some sort in case you need. You'll feel much better not being in debt to anybody (instead, pay yourself first, that is, you are paying the top creditor, YOU, first and then all others next).

I've done this, and I am so relieved, so stress-free, not being in hock to someone else. I know that not all can immediately achieve this, but strive to, and stick to it.

[Random Boomer]

7. Debt really isn't the issue here

Your financial advice is solid, and in my case, I have no long-term debt. I use a credit card for the convenience of paying for large ticket items, but pay off the balance at the end of the month.

I'm comfortable with my debit card and one Visa credit card. I'm really not joyful at having that system changed in any meaningful way. Doesn't even matter if the new version is "better". My current setup is good enough and I'm tired of having to re-learn how to do something that is already in place and working as is.

Now, GET OFF MY LAWN!

[jimfields33]

19. I have a zero credit score and have had one for over ten years. At a certain point, you no longer need credit.

[Happy Hoosier]

26. True to a point.

Last edited Sat May 18, 2024, 03:51 PM - Edit history (1)

So long as you have sufficient resources to weather whatever may come. And even then, It's always wise to have options.

I pay for pretty much every purchase with a credit card. But I treat it like a debit card. I do not buy anything I cannot afford to pay for within the month time frame and I ALWAYS pay off the cards, in full, before every statement closing date. I usually pay them off weekly, since that helps me track spending.

I score a LOT of rewards points this way, which helps offset fees built in to prices these days.

But this approach requires the absolute discipline to never view the credit limit as "available funds."

The only way I'd ever spend above what I can off immediately is in an absolute emergency.... emergency fund depleted, etc.

[jimfields33]

34. I admit I'm losing on on cash back and points.

Trust me when I say my friends think I’m nuts. lol. I commend you on your financial path.

One reason I don’t have credit is because in my 20’s, I over did it and it took awhile to dig myself out. I applaud people who have discipline to keep themselves in check. I do not have that even in my 50’s. So if I need something, I save it up even if it takes longer.

[Happy Hoosier]

37. Totally get that...

I had to dig out of a mountain of debt and not too long ago! I’m being very cautious now because I know how easy it can be slip back in that pit.

If you get peace of mind not using those cards, then that’s the right path for you!

[Zeitghost]

4. I use Apple Pay as often as possible

And have found myself avoiding places that do not take it. It's much easier and far safer as it generates a new temporary card number for every transaction.

[Demobrat]

23. I do too.

There are a couple of places where I shop in my neighborhood that only take cash. My favorite coffee shop is cash only. Others prefer cash. These small businesses operating on tiny margins do not want to give 3-5% of their gross to credit card companies, and I appreciate and support that.

If not for them, I would leave my physical wallet at home.

I use Apple Pay everywhere else. I like that I can see running totals. I love the convenience. I won’t type in credit card numbers online anymore. No Apple Pay, no sale.

[Shermann]

6. "Your wallet may soon be getting thinner"

Don't let FXN see that, they'll take it out of context and blame it on Biden.

[Progressive dog]

9. Doesn't sound worth doing to me

Most people have more than one credit card. Putting them all on one electronic device doesn't seem as safe to me as having individual physical cards.

[underpants]

20. Yeah not sure here. If there's no number how do I order food on the phone?

Do I have to go through their website somehow or are is the delivery person bringing some sort of card reader? That last option has all kinds security issues with it.

[Happy Hoosier]

27. Depends upon how you do it.

I feel safe putting my cards on my phone, and I do.

And one thing about credit cards is that most of them have excellent fraud protection.

I had an incident last year. From dispute to account credit to new card happened in 48 hours.

[mopinko]

10. i have an option to pay over time on my chase cards now.

every time i make a big purchase, they offer me a long payoff.

[Happy Hoosier]

28. Me too.... but have never used it.

But I don't carry balances on my cards.

[mopinko]

46. same.

[anciano]

12. Interesting indeed....

that sounds like it will not only simplify and streamline payment options, but also eliminate the possibility for lost or stolen physical cards.

[slightlv]

30. True enough, anciano...

but I worry when one "account" can be linked to multiple cards. Hackers are way too smart these days. We've been hit so many times and have had to restart with new debit cards, that I cringe at the thought of that account being linked to my Chase and Amazon cards!

I dunno... I'll reserve judgement for now and see what ends up happening. At my age, after 40+ years in the tech field, I'm kinda tired of constant technology changes. As the number of marbles in my head dwindles, it's kinda nice to have structure and consistency... especially around something as important as finances. Smaller chance of making dumb mistakes that way.

[sybylla]

13. Big dislike for me.

Far too often additional convenience means less save. And far too often financials don't gaf about what you have to deal with on the backside of a hack.

I have had too many cards compromised to make it easier for fakers to steal money from all my accounts at once. Doesn't matter if it's covered by fraud protections. I have spent far too much time on the phone sorting this shit out when their payday was a grand. Putting everything together on one card will only make those cards a bigger target for scammers.

The penalty for making me clean up their messes is giving me a year's worth of credit monitoring. Change that to $1k per incident and I might think about it.

[FakeNoose]

14. Next thing, they're going to embed their microchip in my index finger

Why go to the trouble of making up plastic cards? That's more profit for the banks and Visa/Mastercard/Amex.

[anciano]

16. FWIW, the technology for human implants

is already very advanced and implants will probably become the norm in the very near future.

[FakeNoose]

18. Sure, they've been microchipping dogs for over a decade

People have microchips for ID, why not for credit cards?

[slightlv]

31. Ah, gee...

makes you wonder how the Magas think about that... isn't that along the lines of the Mark of the Beast?

[jimfields33]

22. I'd love something that would save the environment

I think it’s tragic all the plastic being used. Total waste and irresponsible.

[Happy Hoosier]

29. I use my Apple Watch, almost as good.

I love being able to Applepay just using my watch. Don't even have to pull out my wallet.

[bucolic_frolic]

32. Yuck

I don't tap and barely pay Visa by ACH. This sounds like banking consolidation ahead. My regional is slow to modernize. I can't imagine them linking all credit cards into one payment vehicle.

How long will cash be accepted? It's been said they have the power to charge fees for cash use or deposit.

[DBoon]

36. "one physical payment card that will be connected to multiple bank accounts"

So if that payment card is compromised, then ALL of your bank accounts will be drained?

[Wonder Why]

38. When banks announce new features, hide your wallet as it's always a

way for them to make more money off you.

[sakabatou]

40. I only have one payment card.

All others are for identity.

[DFW]

56. Same here

Well, one for private expenditures, dollar based on my Dallas bank, and one for work expenses over here, euro based. That one gets hit for foreign exchange fees when I make charges outside the euro zone (Switzerland or UK, e.g.), but I’m rarely in Switzerland or the UK overnight anyway, since London, Genève, Basel and Zürich are all about a one hour flight from Düsseldorf, and hotels in those cities are usually more expensive than the flight home. My outfit would pay for it, of course, but I feel a moral obligation not to blow expense money needlessly. In return, they never question any expenses I do incur. Mutual trust is not completely obsolete.

My wife and I are very old fashioned when it comes to personal expenditures. Debt terrifies us, and we always use cash when it’s convenient, and prefer checks when it’s not. In the case of the credit cards, we have automatic deduction from bank accounts. Credit card companies LOVE debt interest charges, and getting a bill in the mail almost anywhere guarantees I won’t see it before interest kicks in. This obviously means we shouldn’t overdraw our bank accounts, so we never use them unless forced to.

Reading some of the posts here, it occurs to me that I haven’t the slightest idea what “Apple Pay” is.

[NowsTheTime]

43. One Stop Shopping for Hackers

[Aussie105]

48. No debts.

I have one card linked to one account.
Visa debit.
I get interest on what is in the account, and no fees.
It's a healthy account.
My income feeds that account. My bills eat from it.

I pay all my bills directly from the account over the internet, or I use Paypal.

Only use cash when shopping.

I like keeping money things simple.

[CousinIT]

50. Well now, the identity thieves will have a field day with that.

Pfft.

[Ponietz]

53. 2.5% "convenience" fees in a cashless society WTF?

[Aussie105]

55. Do you think cards exist to make your life easier?

Or just a way for banks to tap into the money flowing around society?

Your (imagined) 'convenience' is their profit bucket of gold at the end of the rainbow.

The fees for using any card tend to be hidden, either included in the sticker price or picked up by the seller.

I was not really aware of them, until I tried to buy a $2K laptop with mine, and the vendor asked for extra to cover the fees.

Same when I bought a car, I was asked for an extra $400.

Declined both purchases, in the case of the car, I got a bank check instead. Much cheaper.

[DFW]

57. And yet

We are often encouraged to contribute to Democratic candidates through “Act Blue.”

Act Blue takes 3.95% off the top of any contribution made through them, and the credit card company grabs nearly as much again before the candidate sees a cent. Of every million contributed by people to a candidate through Act Blue, $75,000 gets divided up between them and the credit card company. How’s THAT for some “convenience” fees?

[Aussie105]

58. That hidden redirection of your money puts me off donating online to any charity.

And there that redirection in a lot worse.

I'd rather walk into the local animal rescue and place $100 into their donation box, or ask what sort of dog/cat food they are short of, and go buy $100 of that.

[DFW]

59. With big charities you should only cobtribute if they offer full disclosure

How much goes for "administrative costs," and a lot of "etc." And that's before even getting into convenience fees.

Now, with Act Blue, I can at least understand a contributor with $10 to spend going online to make the contribution instead of making out a check and sending it. The postage stamp would pretty much equal the convenience fee shared by Act Blue and Visa (or whoever). But if someone is willing to contribute $100, let alone $1000, the equation changes. That stamp still costs a dollar or less, where Act Blue and the credit card companies still take the same percentage out for themselves. The 75¢ that would come out of the $10 contribution becomes $7.50 out of the $100, and it becomes $75.00 out of the $1000, all for the same "convenience." Act Blue claims to have processed $3.5 billion over the 2022 election cycle. Without even calculating the credit card fees, that means $138 million and change just for Act Blue. In their own words, they state: "We pass along a 3.95% processing fee on contributions to the groups using our platform. Act Blue does not make money off of donations." Maybe so, but that still sounds like a LOT of processing, most of which is done via computer programs. The credit card companies would have shared an equal amount, which, I'm sure, didn't break their hearts, either. It's undeniable that, for small donations, they DO provide a convenience. For more substantial donations, the question of convenience for the donor, Act Blue, and the candidate deserves a different balancing act.

I only started inquiring after a "glitch" in Act Blue's program automatically checked the "make it monthly" box without my realizing it. When I objected, I got an angry letter back from them, essentially calling me an idiot for not noticing that myself. That led me to dig a little deeper, and see just what was going where, and that, in turn, led me to go back to checks. For the "convenience fee" of a stamp, the candidate to whom I was contributing got 100% of my donation. I stopped credit card donations altogether after that. I give to various organizations like Planned Parenthood, SPLC, Vermont Food Bank, Texas Innocence Project, and a lot of etc. These people need the funding more than MasterCard does, so even though a check arrives days later than an instant online credit card transaction, it's what I prefer to do. Others see things differently, and that's fine with me. They do things their way for their own reasons, and I do things my way for the reasons I just stated.