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Bernardo de La Paz

(49,204 posts)
56. My screenname is a fictional "rational libertarian"
Thu Feb 1, 2024, 08:24 PM
Feb 2024

Basically, he believes in a libertarian ideal, but is first and foremost a realist and pragmatist and thus happily co-exists with many other political stripes.

Libertarianism is a fantastic ideal, just as communism is a fantastic ideal. By "fantastic" I mean the "fantasy" sense of the word.

Libertarians imagine a world where everyone is focused on working hard to get ahead and everyone is cooperating to get stuff done because it is in their best interests; cooperating by being careful and responsible. Communists imagine a world where everyone works at their best ability and everyone gets what they need and the rest is spread around.

Both ideologies are imagining idealized human beings who are cooperative, work hard, never exploit anyone and jointly make life fair in somewhat different senses. Both will never be achieved because they are both unrealistic.

I value highly freedoms and rights, but I believe no right is in isolation. Rights are shared and not owned. Rights are frequently in conflict and have to be balanced. That means no pure form of social governance, no crystalline distillation into simplest principles will ever be sufficient or workable or desirable.

I believe that in the future, government will be reduced but never eliminated. The only way it will be reduced is when people learn to get along without shooting each other, bombing each other, exploiting each other, or being nasty to each other. To the extent that people the world over cooperate with each other responsibly and respectfully, ... to that extent government can be reduced. Though that is an idealistic dream, it is a dream worth having. "Imagine." But don't depend on it arriving next week.

For example, libertarians believe government should get out of things like welfare and providing health care. The libertarian fantasy is that everyone will be motivated to donate to charity and it will all work out. The reality is that the poor donate a much larger percentage of their income than rich people do, despite rich people having a much much greater percentage of disposable income to give out.

So I hold libertarianism as an unobtainable ideal that is worth moving towards by enlightening and educating the public, especially the rich fuckers who should know better but are very unenlightened. It seems that money and privilege are counterproductive for enlightenment. I also hold that it is a better ideal than marxism or communism.

My liberal progressive libertarianism is a far cry from Republican faux libertarianism and much closer to liberalism, progressivism, Democratic policies, and Canadian Liberal Party / New Democratic Party policies.

Thus I am comfortable here, and very glad to be accepted for what I post from time to time.

That is a very progressive usedtobedemgurl Feb 2024 #1
Libertarians ARE the most insane self-affecting mofo John Birch variants of Republicans. TheBlackAdder Feb 2024 #116
That's not a libertarian viewpoint; it's an acknowledgment Ocelot II Feb 2024 #2
Well said. Aristus Feb 2024 #5
Libertarians break the binary. Igel Feb 2024 #32
Politics is at least 2D, not 1D left/right Bernardo de La Paz Feb 2024 #41
Doesn't this make Libertarians the Welfare Queens that Reagan ranted about? Kennah Feb 2024 #58
No. It makes them corporate welfare bloodsuckers, at least the false-front libertarians Bernardo de La Paz Feb 2024 #60
Thank you. PoindexterOglethorpe Feb 2024 #69
I think by those definitions The "libertarian" is a "moderate" oldsoftie Feb 2024 #163
Koch Brothers are libertarians KS Toronado Feb 2024 #44
David Koch died in 2019. Prairie_Seagull Feb 2024 #130
Oh, and just when I considered taking a nap Attilatheblond Feb 2024 #3
I just woke up from a nap a little while ago lovebugg Feb 2024 #10
You'll need to clarify that musette_sf Feb 2024 #4
I read this on it maybe I'm reading wrong? lovebugg Feb 2024 #6
This is the Libertarian Party platform: W_HAMILTON Feb 2024 #18
Here. Igel Feb 2024 #37
You are quoting an old, outdated platform. W_HAMILTON Feb 2024 #42
Correct musette_sf Feb 2024 #74
Nowhere...and supporting the Libertarian Party on DU...IE Democratic Underground Demsrule86 Feb 2024 #145
You sound very young, or at least not on sure footing with US politics ? Hekate Feb 2024 #90
The fact that the abortion issue is a medical issue it has no place in the hands Bev54 Feb 2024 #151
The Pauls are Republicans not libertarians lovebugg Feb 2024 #7
The RLC (Republican Liberty Caucus) musette_sf Feb 2024 #16
I have met a number of Ron Paul supporters a while back who claimed to be libertarians LetMyPeopleVote Feb 2024 #103
Well, yeah musette_sf Feb 2024 #107
Here's a link canetoad Feb 2024 #8
Thank you lovebugg Feb 2024 #13
That's adorable! dpibel Feb 2024 #22
What part of Government I "Controlling your life"? Cha Feb 2024 #34
What kind of conspiracy theories do you believe in? John Shaft Feb 2024 #48
They do not lovebugg Feb 2024 #73
A liberal libertarian. Marcus IM Feb 2024 #52
Beautiful. Add to that a photo of a Boeing Max shedding doors and passengers at high altitude. Whee! Hekate Feb 2024 #92
Those traffic lights do make driving more confusing. Torchlight Feb 2024 #71
What kind of government control are you referring to? Dyedinthewoolliberal Feb 2024 #228
Most people here support some regulation and restrictions, so. WhiskeyGrinder Feb 2024 #9
The Thing About Libertarianism The Magistrate Feb 2024 #19
I was talking only about abortion, but your point stands. WhiskeyGrinder Feb 2024 #46
I've A Sentimental Fondness For Anarchism The Magistrate Feb 2024 #55
Sir, you contain multitudes. WhiskeyGrinder Feb 2024 #76
left libertarianism has a long history Voltaire2 Feb 2024 #127
What Most Intrigued Me About Spain In That Period, Sir The Magistrate Feb 2024 #233
Government's primary duty is protection of people. Hermit-The-Prog Feb 2024 #66
I must ask why? Abortion is a medical issue and nobody's business but a woman and her Bev54 Feb 2024 #154
Gestational limits are a restriction that many people have trouble letting go of. WhiskeyGrinder Feb 2024 #157
Well it is time to let go. Maybe because I am Canadian and abortion has no place in our courts Bev54 Feb 2024 #193
I agree whole-heartedly. ShazzieB Feb 2024 #237
Well, scratch a libertarian TxGuitar Feb 2024 #11
Nope. Libertarians are diametrically opposed to fascists Bernardo de La Paz Feb 2024 #47
well except when they don't. Voltaire2 Feb 2024 #131
The short answer is no. Mosby Feb 2024 #12
Am I reading this wrong? lovebugg Feb 2024 #15
Libertarians aren't liberals. Ocelot II Feb 2024 #28
okay thanks I was not aware of that lovebugg Feb 2024 #30
So you have not read Ayn Rand, the patron saint of Libertarianism? Oh my. Hekate Feb 2024 #94
No have not lovebugg Feb 2024 #110
I thought they were a bit rude, and the drivers made my hair stand on end. Not like a "village" Hekate Feb 2024 #152
Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2024 #160
Yes, wolves do kill people & they hunt in packs. Hekate Feb 2024 #185
Agreed hurl Feb 2024 #33
INFO: how are libertarians liberals? obamanut2012 Feb 2024 #132
Liberalism is a very broad ideological category. Voltaire2 Feb 2024 #138
Libertarians are not liberal obamanut2012 Feb 2024 #143
They most certainly are. Voltaire2 Feb 2024 #189
lol obamanut2012 Feb 2024 #206
Maybe do a little research? Voltaire2 Feb 2024 #246
Most libertarians in this country are nothing more than Republicans who smoke pot. madinmaryland Feb 2024 #14
I don't know what I am I have never voted lovebugg Feb 2024 #17
Why? ProfessorGAC Feb 2024 #23
The closest village was very far lovebugg Feb 2024 #26
Well, Ain't You Cute As A Bug In A Rug.... The Magistrate Feb 2024 #45
I don't know what that is but they sing nice lovebugg Feb 2024 #65
I'm sorry, but that sentence doesn't make sense. Ferrets are Cool Feb 2024 #84
Not So fast There, Sir The Magistrate Feb 2024 #85
Wolves taught him dpibel Feb 2024 #86
Wolves can be dangerous and people try to kill them here lovebugg Feb 2024 #111
What people? You said there were no people there. Four years without speaking to another person, you said. Scrivener7 Feb 2024 #202
Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2024 #209
Back to the village in Connecticut? RandiFan1290 Feb 2024 #213
I'm pretty sure they didn't fool much of anyone. Scrivener7 Feb 2024 #217
So your friend is in foreclosure, sends a letter to the village elder who has "snow machine Scrivener7 Feb 2024 #214
PS: were you mean to the village elder? If he can contact you whenever he wants with his Scrivener7 Feb 2024 #219
Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2024 #220
So you built her a house, then she didn't check if you were dead or alive for four years straight. Scrivener7 Feb 2024 #221
Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2024 #223
And lovebugg go back to Alaska village called Connecticut. There he and fish and pluck gold Scrivener7 Feb 2024 #235
Serious, sounds Torchlight Feb 2024 #222
LOL Ferrets are Cool Feb 2024 #184
But, my friend, did they build it and THEN grow up in it? Ferrets are Cool Feb 2024 #119
Me fail English? That's unpossible Brother Buzz Feb 2024 #176
"Village" ? Where in the US was this? Hekate Feb 2024 #93
Up north lovebugg Feb 2024 #108
Is English your second language? John Shaft Feb 2024 #141
Connecticut RandiFan1290 Feb 2024 #218
I feel a desire for popcorn coming on Hekate Feb 2024 #95
I find the tale of "Dances with Wolves and the Gold Rush" to be very entertaining! betsuni Feb 2024 #115
White Fang! AZSkiffyGeek Feb 2024 #200
From the very beginning. Ferrets are Cool Feb 2024 #122
I Do Declare, Ma'am The Magistrate Feb 2024 #126
Heap much Hekate Feb 2024 #142
I'm REALLY hoping there turns out to be a Door Buzzard in this story. Move over on the couch and Scrivener7 Feb 2024 #148
Oooh, maybe we'll get lucky! Hekate Feb 2024 #155
How did you build a cabin as an infant? obamanut2012 Feb 2024 #133
Maybe the bears helped Hekate Feb 2024 #153
Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2024 #159
**** Hekate Feb 2024 #180
Goldpouchlocks and the Three Kodiaks obamanut2012 Feb 2024 #207
:-) nt spooky3 Feb 2024 #226
I love arguing water rights with Libertarians ismnotwasm Feb 2024 #20
No one should own the water that falls from the sky lovebugg Feb 2024 #25
That is not very Libertarian then lol ismnotwasm Feb 2024 #35
What happens to the water after it falls from the sky? Ocelot II Feb 2024 #54
I have never paid for a fishing license There was no one to pay lovebugg Feb 2024 #67
So you just help yourself Ocelot II Feb 2024 #75
As many as I want ? lovebugg Feb 2024 #78
Sounds Like A Lonely Life.... The Magistrate Feb 2024 #79
In city now to visit lovebugg Feb 2024 #81
Enjoy your stay Hekate Feb 2024 #97
Friends house nice but will be leaving soon lovebugg Feb 2024 #112
Your friend a member of the Democratic Underground forum here? KS Toronado Feb 2024 #125
Why are you talking like some 1950s "TV Indian" like Tonto? obamanut2012 Feb 2024 #134
I had a friend who taught himself Standard English by copying the Lone Ranger, not Tonto Hekate Feb 2024 #156
lol obamanut2012 Feb 2024 #173
The man had beautiful, well-modulated voice & could recite episodes. "Him dead, Kemo Sabe"... Hekate Feb 2024 #179
Improv is so cool dpibel Feb 2024 #82
Well spotted, dpibel Hekate Feb 2024 #98
Andy Kaufman is writhing in his grave. herding cats Feb 2024 #100
What the aitch does that have to do with being "allowed here" ? Hekate Feb 2024 #96
"You see, it's ok for corporations to hoard water and sell it for a premium, because they have the means to do so.' Oneironaut Feb 2024 #140
What other libertarian positions senseandsensibility Feb 2024 #21
I would have to check to see what other stuff they agree with lovebugg Feb 2024 #24
Then Why did you join DU which is a Democratic Cha Feb 2024 #38
I was reading it and everybody seemed friendly lovebugg Feb 2024 #39
We're Serious about Saving Our Democracy. Cha Feb 2024 #40
Just curious KS Toronado Feb 2024 #49
Doubtful you will get an answer to that one. Ferrets are Cool Feb 2024 #83
On another interesting thread dpibel Feb 2024 #87
I do not live here Boston is the city lovebugg Feb 2024 #109
How did you get to Boston? FreeState Feb 2024 #113
she told me ticket will be there lovebugg Feb 2024 #114
Do they have JustAnotherGen Feb 2024 #123
Screw that. Do they have pronouns and articles there? Scrivener7 Feb 2024 #147
Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2024 #158
You confuse me. Blue Dawn Feb 2024 #162
Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2024 #164
Thank you for responding. Blue Dawn Feb 2024 #167
Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2024 #172
Here's one from lovebugg a couple days ago that dpibel linked to below. It's really very erudite. Scrivener7 Feb 2024 #191
Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2024 #194
Of course she did. In return for three bags of gold. Scrivener7 Feb 2024 #195
Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2024 #198
So you said. But... maybe it's time to go back to the cabin you built so you could grow up in it, and to your Scrivener7 Feb 2024 #199
Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2024 #201
Probably a good thing. The persona has run its course. Scrivener7 Feb 2024 #203
Don't be sorry way you speak. Way you speak was fine in early posts this thread. Seems since then Scrivener7 Feb 2024 #187
Okay, this is no longer funny because of your continous "TV Indian" speak obamanut2012 Feb 2024 #136
Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2024 #168
Do you like anchovies on your pizza? Hekate Feb 2024 #190
Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2024 #196
heap big pizza, crispy crust Hekate Feb 2024 #197
..... obamanut2012 Feb 2024 #210
Boston pizza may have cod on it -- or baked beans obamanut2012 Feb 2024 #208
Since that person lives in Connecticut they must be familiar with the famous white clam pizzas betsuni Feb 2024 #240
Just curious. By your manner of writing English and saying you traveled by boat Fla Dem Feb 2024 #177
Well, if you spread it all around it will make the flowers grow Hekate Feb 2024 #181
They grew up in a cabin they self built as an infant obamanut2012 Feb 2024 #135
And (this is really great) they pan for gold up thar in the Yukon & brought 3 pouches of same to Boston Hekate Feb 2024 #183
They read like Chuck Tingle AZSkiffyGeek Feb 2024 #205
I wonder if they bomb the moon in the Yukon? obamanut2012 Feb 2024 #211
That right there - the 3 pouches of gold - was where I fell over laughing! ShazzieB Feb 2024 #239
Jack Londontown obamanut2012 Feb 2024 #144
No, most libertarians are not pro choice. Ron Paul is anti choice JI7 Feb 2024 #29
ughhh senseandsensibility Feb 2024 #36
That's a civil rights and human rights position JI7 Feb 2024 #27
this might help WarGamer Feb 2024 #31
Libertarians don't understand that roads don't pave themselves lindysalsagal Feb 2024 #43
Government did NOT give the right to travel freely in your city Bernardo de La Paz Feb 2024 #50
Who do you think should have a say over a woman's body? limbicnuminousity Feb 2024 #51
What would make that view point Progressive dog Feb 2024 #53
My screenname is a fictional "rational libertarian" Bernardo de La Paz Feb 2024 #56
Well Said, Professor! The Magistrate Feb 2024 #61
A kind word from you, your Honour, is especially treasured. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Feb 2024 #62
Well-stated, Bernardo Hekate Feb 2024 #99
So I'm not the only one. Mosby Feb 2024 #192
Thanks. I'll have to keep an eye out for that book. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Feb 2024 #227
Thom Hartmann says, "Libertarians are just Republicans who wanna smoke pot and get laid." Kennah Feb 2024 #57
I've heard it said there are RW libertarians and LW libertarians Kennah Feb 2024 #59
Yes. Everybody leans. Nobody is pure. Bernardo de La Paz Feb 2024 #63
In An Older Parlance, Sir, Anarchists Were Refered To As Libertarians The Magistrate Feb 2024 #64
RW libertarians want to free the wealthy and powerful from the constraints of the state DBoon Feb 2024 #70
Are we allowed to express a Republican view point here? No DBoon Feb 2024 #68
Of course one must differentiate between what I consider the 'classical libertarian' view DemocraticPatriot Feb 2024 #91
That's not libertarian. It's common sense and what this board is about. brush Feb 2024 #72
Agree republianmushroom Feb 2024 #77
Libertarianism czarjak Feb 2024 #80
We are Democrats -- and supporters of Democrats Hekate Feb 2024 #88
I think most Democrats take a "libertarian" view on social issues--- DemocraticPatriot Feb 2024 #89
This sounds like the beginning of a troll to me. Arthur_Frain Feb 2024 #101
O....M....G!!! dpibel Feb 2024 #102
Is this you? blogslug Feb 2024 #104
RFK Jr. is evidently considering running as a libertarian LetMyPeopleVote Feb 2024 #105
In a word? No. herding cats Feb 2024 #106
Fuck libertarians Ohio Joe Feb 2024 #117
"Dances with Wolves libertarian and the Pouches of Gold" will make a fabulous movie. betsuni Feb 2024 #118
No words JustAnotherGen Feb 2024 #121
The "TV Indian" talk really oversold it obamanut2012 Feb 2024 #137
The Tonto-speak appeared mid-journey dpibel Feb 2024 #165
Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2024 #166
You pan gold obamanut2012 Feb 2024 #171
Well said obamanut2012 Feb 2024 #170
How? AZSkiffyGeek Feb 2024 #216
Believe we could use some of this on this OP KS Toronado Feb 2024 #146
Check this early post from our friend dpibel Feb 2024 #175
Even better dpibel Feb 2024 #178
Maybe they have gold poisoning obamanut2012 Feb 2024 #212
That's a Democratic Party Statement JustAnotherGen Feb 2024 #120
I don't understand the OP. betsuni Feb 2024 #124
Emergency Pizza JustAnotherGen Feb 2024 #139
Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2024 #161
So, did you pan for the gold in the Yukon? obamanut2012 Feb 2024 #169
Charlie Chaplin too Hekate Feb 2024 #188
Going through the thread, there appears to be a lack of understanding on your part as to the Torchlight Feb 2024 #128
"But this rule is persistently violated in the "Deerslayer" tale." ok_cpu Feb 2024 #129
Libertarians are like house cats: Swede Feb 2024 #149
I like that, a lot Hekate Feb 2024 #204
I once got asked to leave a libertarian town hall meeting, simply because I niyad Feb 2024 #244
A little off topic, but is there a link to a list of things that we are allowed to disagree on without getting banned? Polybius Feb 2024 #150
Absolutely. The answers to all your questions are in the Terms of Service. Hekate Feb 2024 #186
Why I love this thread: it is unifying obamanut2012 Feb 2024 #174
A little boy said to his mother... GiqueCee Feb 2024 #182
Love this thread! beaglelover Feb 2024 #215
Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2024 #224
Going back to the Cave, huh? beaglelover Feb 2024 #225
LOL. Does that still exist? // omg I just looked it up and it does Hekate Feb 2024 #229
Yep, those deplorables are constantly trying to infiltrate DU. Losers. LOL! beaglelover Feb 2024 #231
I smell a sequel dpibel Feb 2024 #230
Hilarious! beaglelover Feb 2024 #232
I was actually just about to check over there to see if they'd post about this, but nothing yet. betsuni Feb 2024 #234
What exactly is the Cave? ShazzieB Feb 2024 #241
The Conservative Cave. betsuni Feb 2024 #243
Thanks! ShazzieB Feb 2024 #245
Ohhhh. They're gone? That one was original!!! Scrivener7 Feb 2024 #236
I believe he is enjoying his second pizza Brother Buzz Feb 2024 #238
This message was self-deleted by its author LudwigPastorius Feb 2024 #242
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