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Beastly Boy

(9,723 posts)

166. The first step in the scientific metod is observation that can be measured.

Wed May 1, 2024, 04:46 PM

May 1

Forming a non-testable hypothesis from observations that cannot be measured or analyzed falls outside of scientific method and are therefore not subject to conclusions. "There are no ghosts" is a conclusion not based on the scientific method, just as my observations are not.

Observe, research, test, hypothesize, analyze, conclude. The boundaries of scientific method are built into its description.

Not my problem.

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Are ghosts real? [View all] Bayard Apr 29 OP

I'm surprised it's not more than 18% that believe they have seen ghosts. But, people do have other mucifer Apr 29 #1

I agree with your last sentence. former9thward Apr 29 #3

A relative of mine was home alone one night, and suddenly saw a longtime family friend. shrike3 Apr 30 #21

Your story, and the one above... It gives me pause. electric_blue68 Apr 30 #40

That is a very common occurrence Maeve Apr 30 #68

Very common dream Johnny2X2X Apr 30 #109

I never had a dream. former9thward Apr 30 #118

I never once had such a dream. NT. anamnua Apr 30 #133

Your story is especially striking. triron May 1 #151

Thank you for your work. electric_blue68 Apr 30 #39

When my 90 year old mother was in the hospital wnylib Apr 30 #43

A hospice worker giving a TED talk discussed the visions seen by the dying. shrike3 Apr 30 #71

That was how I felt about it, too. Whether real or not, wnylib Apr 30 #84

The hospice worker said if loved ones can go with the flow, it can be a positive experience all around. shrike3 Apr 30 #86

Unfortunately, my brother and his oldest son (an adult in his 40s at the time) wnylib Apr 30 #97

That's unfortunate. That's exactly what the hospice worker advised against. shrike3 Apr 30 #99

Yeah, I did what I could to let my mother feel free to talk to me, wnylib Apr 30 #105

There is a great book that addresses the phenomenon of interacting with deceased relatives before death. phylny Apr 30 #51

My husband flatlined during his last surgery. shrike3 Apr 30 #72

When you wrote: dmr May 1 #148

My husband chokes up every time he thinks of it. shrike3 May 1 #149

I'm from Appalachia Ontheboundry Apr 30 #106

Meant to respond to the OP. Deleting and reposing below. nt Quixote1818 May 2 #172

Don't bring up the First Law of Thermodynamics without bringing up the Second Law Silent3 Apr 29 #2

+1. Not to mention the arrow of time dalton99a Apr 30 #30

You just wrecked astronomy. Hermit-The-Prog Apr 30 #42

Oooh, somebody slept through Physical Chemistry! T-symmetry is absolutely a thing... sir pball Apr 30 #62

Perhaps consciousness is causal for the 'material triron Apr 30 #113

Time is irreversible because of the 2nd law (i.e. entropy) - time itself, not physical directionality/symmetry dalton99a Apr 30 #125

But if a ghost is an apparation, a vision, an experience of an observer, the direction of time isn't relevant. Doodley May 1 #150

The existence of ghosts, and the nature of consciousness, are currently outside of science. sir pball Apr 30 #67

Science, broadly speaking, is simply a methodology to make sure you aren't fooling yourself Silent3 Apr 30 #77

Because some questions just don't fit the metric. sir pball Apr 30 #85

If there is no evidence pro or con... Silent3 Apr 30 #103

I'm not sure you understood what I said sir pball Apr 30 #111

Even if consciousness "can't be explained by simple physical laws"... Silent3 Apr 30 #114

You're absolutely correct... sir pball Apr 30 #123

A scientist said that according to Quantum Mechanics it's possible memories and thoughts survive death. shrike3 Apr 30 #79

Yep, that's probably the same guy I followed back in the day. sir pball Apr 30 #87

I found his statement very interesting. And QM is way above my paygrade. shrike3 Apr 30 #88

The nature of consciousness is not "outside of science" - many scientists are investigating it muriel_volestrangler Apr 30 #91

Good questions. Way beyond my paygrade. shrike3 Apr 30 #115

Why couldn't a soul be impaired by brain damage? If the soul is generated by the brain, why not? Doodley May 1 #156

Because a soul wouldn't have a brain? shrike3 May 1 #160

What if the brain was a transmitter, like a radio? Instead of transmitting sound, it would transmit a soul? Doodley May 1 #162

There are those who believe the soul reincarnates. shrike3 May 1 #163

Yes, of course we know electrified lard is a requisite for consciousness sir pball Apr 30 #130

Funny how the gaps where the ignorant NanaCat Apr 30 #128

QM is near on a century old, no knowledge gaps are shrinking. sir pball Apr 30 #129

Wish I had the chops to truly understand QM and QP. shrike3 Apr 30 #135

The brain---conciousness, memory, innate knowledge is still outside the understanding of science. Doodley May 1 #154

I saw a ghost once happybird Apr 29 #4

Same here peppertree Apr 30 #18

Never saw a ghost but was tapped on the shoulder by one... Blue Idaho Apr 30 #121

Short answer: Disaffected Apr 29 #5

I had a "ghost mouse" in my house..... DemocraticPatriot Apr 29 #6

No. Iggo Apr 29 #7

There are over a billion surveillance cameras in the world dalton99a Apr 29 #8

Ever think that they don't show up on cameras? Polybius Apr 29 #10

Cameras... 2naSalit Apr 30 #16

Photons are what we "see" - and photons are photons dalton99a Apr 30 #34

Yes, but I'm not welcoming or sensitive to them. ecstatic Apr 29 #9

when i get to ireland, i'm planning to stay in a castle that is supposed to b the 5th most haunted mopinko Apr 29 #13

Yikes x 20! ecstatic Apr 30 #19

well, it's pretty popular. i'm sure if they misbehaved, it wouldnt b. mopinko Apr 30 #49

?Leap Castle anamnua Apr 30 #134

no. kinnitty castle. mopinko Apr 30 #144

My husband is. He's seen things. He's not religious and is not sure there's an afterlife. shrike3 Apr 30 #23

i was always in carl sagan's camp on this, but mopinko Apr 29 #11

Depends on... 2naSalit Apr 29 #12

Irrational nonsense JoseBalow Apr 30 #14

Only Answer!!! I'm saving that chart. Hilarious! Thanks wolfie001 May 1 #152

Agreed. nt Quixote1818 May 2 #171

My wife swears up and down that she was visited by the ghost of her dead brother Poiuyt Apr 30 #15

My cousin, who was very close to my mother, had a visit from my mom when she died. phylny Apr 30 #53

For me that answer is yes. edisdead Apr 30 #17

Please elaborate if you wish. If no one else wants to hear about the spirits, I do. shrike3 Apr 30 #139

No krawhitham Apr 30 #20

Hallucinations are definitely real... littlemissmartypants Apr 30 #22

OMG mechtech Apr 30 #24

It is right up there with flat earthers Voltaire2 Apr 30 #58

Always have believed in spirits and used to see them a lot when younger LiberalArkie Apr 30 #25

Yeah, nah... Violet_Crumble Apr 30 #26

I tell myself no but the the back of my mind says maybe. RandySF Apr 30 #27

Our five senses are physiological by nature. They are mere instruments that feed information Beastly Boy Apr 30 #28

That's a great way of putting it. ecstatic Apr 30 #63

I am simplifying stuff for brevity. It's a whole spectrum of perceptions and sensitivities. Beastly Boy Apr 30 #92

You're first problem is claiming there are 5 senses. Cuthbert Allgood May 1 #157

The first step in the scientific metod is observation that can be measured. Beastly Boy May 1 #166

"There are no ghosts" is the null hypothesis. Cuthbert Allgood May 2 #167

I've seen Neil deGrasse Tyson go on BaronChocula Apr 30 #29

I've been searching for evidence that Einstein ever claimed anything about ghosts. I can't find it. Silent3 Apr 30 #33

Tooooootally possible BaronChocula Apr 30 #35

Might be the spooky action at a distance theory, misconstrued. shrike3 Apr 30 #93

Hawking seemed to be a "when it's over, it's over" kind of guy. shrike3 Apr 30 #141

I don't think we will ever be able to answer this question in a scientific basis. At least in the near term. Xolodno Apr 30 #31

Many paranormal events can be readily explained - for example, infrasound dalton99a Apr 30 #36

There are also criticisms to what you posted, to be fair. Xolodno Apr 30 #38

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence misanthrope Apr 30 #32

I've had an unexplained experience Elessar Zappa Apr 30 #37

They must not believe in me. multigraincracker Apr 30 #41

There's belief, and then there's experience BoRaGard Apr 30 #44

A few years ago we woke up in the middle of the night because the bedroom light turned on by itself. betsuni Apr 30 #45

No. But sometimes our minds trick us. raccoon Apr 30 #46

In one word LeonidPlanck Apr 30 #47

Okay LeonidPlanck Apr 30 #48

What if one sees people one doesn't know? shrike3 Apr 30 #136

That, my friend, LeonidPlanck May 2 #176

IOW, you don't know. shrike3 May 2 #178

It's pretty well understood. LeonidPlanck May 4 #179

It's all conjecture. Maybe this, maybe that. shrike3 May 4 #181

That's exactly the opposite of what I said LeonidPlanck May 15 #188

Lots of words to speculate, which is all anyone did on thisthread. shrike3 May 16 #189

LOL. I'd suggest you put your big boy pants on if you're going to hang around here. shrike3 May 16 #190

Maybe we got off on the wrong foot LeonidPlanck May 16 #191

No need to be negative? LOL. shrike3 May 16 #192

I'm not actually new here LeonidPlanck May 16 #193

I'm not the one who wrote lots of words without saying much of anything at all. shrike3 May 16 #194

Eesh... LeonidPlanck May 16 #195

Darlin', if you think I'm the town troll you have not been here long. shrike3 May 16 #196

I've read "Where Bigfoot Walks"! Bought it at a Pike Place Market shop during a visit back to Seattle. betsuni May 4 #180

That's a great place to buy Bob's LeonidPlanck May 15 #187

Put me in the 18 percent category. MOMFUDSKI Apr 30 #50

How do you know it was a ghost? Happy Hoosier Apr 30 #52

Guy who owned the house died at 100. MOMFUDSKI Apr 30 #56

Sure. But again, how do you know it was a ghost? Happy Hoosier Apr 30 #59

Son's FIL was in the basement few weeks after MOMFUDSKI Apr 30 #60

Again, NONE of that establishes a spirit. Happy Hoosier Apr 30 #61

If I could take you with me in a time MOMFUDSKI Apr 30 #73

It's your experience. Others may dispute it, but it is your experience. shrike3 Apr 30 #140

If by ghosts, you mean spirits, then no. Happy Hoosier Apr 30 #54

No. Nt. Voltaire2 Apr 30 #55

If ghosts aren't real, what the hell is my dog always freaking out about? He sees them everywhere. Midnight Writer Apr 30 #57

My son's cat, at 2 am, ran into the bathroom MOMFUDSKI Apr 30 #75

No, that's your interpretation of your dog's behaviour NanaCat Apr 30 #127

I've seen ghosts before. Oneironaut Apr 30 #64

No. Unicorns, Easter Bunny, Great Pumpkin, Hades, Santa, Angels, Devils. Just, no. lindysalsagal Apr 30 #65

Your response reminds me of a story. shrike3 Apr 30 #76

When did Einstein Ever Suggest That about ghosts? Beetwasher. Apr 30 #66

They're probably talking about his "spooky action at a distance" theory. shrike3 Apr 30 #78

They're probably misconstruing his Spooky action at a distance theory. shrike3 Apr 30 #102

I don't know what Einstein quote people are referring to; it might be his reference to the death of Michele Besso. Jim__ Apr 30 #122

That doesn't mean ghosts at all tho Beetwasher. Apr 30 #143

I believe ghosts are real. I have some eperience with this... Demsrule86 Apr 30 #69

I don't think you're nuts. I know someone who had a similar experience. shrike3 Apr 30 #83

Ghosts are not real. Pharlo Apr 30 #70

We live in a physical, natural world. brooklynite Apr 30 #74

thats where I'm at jcgoldie Apr 30 #82

You might enjoy this story. shrike3 Apr 30 #89

Yes. tavernier Apr 30 #80

Please share a story or two. StarryNite Apr 30 #100

So have we n/t shrike3 Apr 30 #116

No. Owl Apr 30 #81

Dead is dead, gone is gone. Ghost, like religion, are an attempt to undo the first sentence. Chainfire Apr 30 #90

This was a great thread! Thanks. MOMFUDSKI Apr 30 #94

Who you gonna call? SocialDemocrat61 Apr 30 #95

Ghosts are imprints H2O Man Apr 30 #96

About 6 years ago I'm at the girlfriends Mothers house sky_masterson Apr 30 #98

There is no evidence for ghosts Johnny2X2X Apr 30 #101

The burden of proof is on the claimant. Ghost stories go back as far in time as we can reach, yet Chainfire Apr 30 #124

Yes kimbutgar Apr 30 #104

"Amos hasn't completely left yet" StarryNite Apr 30 #108

I've had weird enough experiences with patients that I can't explain Docreed2003 Apr 30 #107

"Albert Einstein's suggestion of a scientific basis for the reality of ghosts" - no he didn't suggest any such thing. Voltaire2 Apr 30 #110

. MorbidButterflyTat Apr 30 #112

I've been meaning to post in this tread since this morning - just too busy Mossfern Apr 30 #117

Similar things have happened in our house, and it was built the post-war era. shrike3 Apr 30 #119

Surprised to learn the Catholic Church believes in ghosts. Kingofalldems Apr 30 #120

I'm Catholic and didn't know that either. Thanks. shrike3 Apr 30 #138

No NanaCat Apr 30 #126

This is my ghost story. I have a lot more, but not enough room. Lunabell Apr 30 #131

I would just love to run into a ghost. anamnua Apr 30 #132

This is a fun thread. Thanks, Bayard. shrike3 Apr 30 #137

Most people would tend to ridicule the idea of ghosts anamnua Apr 30 #142

I will check out the book Bayard May 1 #145

My own theory on "haunted houses." Oneironaut May 2 #170

When I lived in Calif, Bayard May 1 #146

I already told you all about my 'mouse ghost'---- DemocraticPatriot May 1 #147

It all depends on what you consider to be a ghost... Hugin May 1 #153

I don't know about sentient Bayard May 2 #168

There's much we don't know. Hugin May 2 #169

I'm pretty sure I've got cat ghosts. Ocelot II May 1 #155

I feel like I have them, too. shrike3 May 1 #164

I've had a few unexplainable experiences Calculating May 1 #158

No VGNonly May 1 #159

If ghosts were real, white capitalists would be dead. Duncan Grant May 1 #161

Why would they be dead? shrike3 May 1 #165

The ONLY thing I give a slight chance to being supernatural, is that we live in a simulation Quixote1818 May 2 #173

Only to people who think they are. Ping Tung May 2 #174

Oliver Cromwell appeared to me in my hotel room this morning to address this question. DFW May 2 #175

I know quite a few people who've experienced ghostly events. shrike3 May 6 #184

I won't say yes or no. BUT i will say bluestarone May 2 #177

Black swans etc anamnua May 6 #182

Thank you for this well-said and informative post Bayard May 6 #185

Much obliged. anamnua May 6 #186

What amazes me is the number of Christians who misunderstand their own faith's teachings about death and the afterlife markpkessinger May 6 #183