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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsA "CHRISTIAN" Nation?
Even most non-Christians know Jesus's admonitions to his followers to feed the hungry, shelter the homeless, and care for the sick and dying.
Now let's acknowledge the bleedin' obvious, shall we?
There isn't a self-proclaimed-Christian Republican who would ever run for office espousing those principles, because they know no self-proclaimed-Christian Republican would ever vote for them.
Show me a Republican candidate running on a platform of making healthcare more affordable, or providing free meals to the poor, and I'll show you a candidate who will be shouted down by the "good Christians" in his party for wanting to give away their tax dollars to undeserving, lazy deadbeats.
Show me a Republican office-seeker campaigning on the promise of housing the homeless, and I'll show you a candidate whose first campaign speech in front of his Bible-thumping Republican base will be his last.
Given today's hate-the-browns-and-blacks climate in the GOP, dare I even mention Christ's directive to "welcome the stranger"? That's the kind of rhetoric that could get you crucified these days - and those self-proclaimed-Christian Republicans would gladly supply the wood and the nails.
The only time you'll hear a Republican politician invoke their alleged Christianity is when they rail against abortion and homosexuality - two topics Christ never even spoke about - or to ask for thoughts-and-prayers after a mass shooting perpetrated by someone with an automatic weapon that, as Republicans will tell you, he had a God-given right to own.
I don't know where all the real Christians are these days - but it's pretty obvious they aren't in the GOP.
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pfitz59
(10,488 posts)AKA: Fake Christians.
NanaCat
(2,140 posts)There is no such thing as a fake Christian. Nobody pretends to be one of them to, I dunno, make the cult look bad. That's something manufactured to cover up a refusal to accept that Christians can be awful people, too. I mean, really, if they're fake Christians then you're saying they aren't Christians at all. So what religion do you think they are in reality?
What you're really doing is trying to blame all of this bad behaviour on people of other religious positions who had nothing to do with it. Which is why it's as bigoted as it is dishonest.
Your religion has awful people in it. Rather than facing that reality and, you know, doing something constructive to fix it, you blame innocent people for it. And that, mate, is exactly what too many in your religion are too willing to do far too often: blame others rather than face the problems in your own midst.
The problem with these people isn't that they're fake Christians. It's that they're typical Christians, and Christians do far too little to change that.
Maybe stop pointing the finger and see the three pointing back at you, hm?
summer_in_TX
(2,801 posts)There are plenty of us who actually do follow the teachings of Jesus. We take his teachings to heart and try our best to do as he would do. But you may not hear much about us, because Jesus said to not stand on the street corner bragging about our good deeds. He also said to be humble, to not seek to be first but to rather be unassuming and not thrust oneself forward. Makes it mighty hard to counter these loud-mouths who shout about how Christian they are but don't actually follow Christ's teachings.
That happened in earlier times. The correct label is "heretic." They defame Jesus by claiming he stood for things he didn't and didn't stand for things he did.
I'm an adult convert myself. I was raised agnostic, and believed that the Inquisition and the Scarlet Letter was what Christianity was all about.
Imagine my surprise to find myself in a group that was far from that, full of laughter and acceptance, warm and genuine. These folks volunteered with the local food bank, built wheelchair ramps for those who couldn't get in and out of their homes, visited prisons and brought love and hope with them, visited those who were sick, gave them rides and kept them company through many an appointment, got the local electricity company to stop charging high reconnect fees for those who had trouble paying their bills and to allow those on limited incomes to participate in a new program to keep the electric bills level and predictable rather than spiking in the winter and summer, repairing homes, bringing food for those who had surgery or illness, in general loving on people of all ages and conditions because that is what Jesus told us to do and did himself.
The so-called Christian Nationalists are not Christians no matter what they call themselves or how many years they've belonged to their church. Jesus said we'd know those who belong to him by the fruit they produce: good, sweet, nourishing fruit. We're here. But the ones who claim to be Christians for their own power, wealth, or even just to feel superior to others who they hate are so loud, arrogant, and obnoxious that we are unseen and unknown, for the most part. Whatever fruit they produce is bitter, shriveled, unnourishing.
So many people walk away in disgust after encountering those types, and who could blame them. If I hadn't had a directly opposite experience of Christians for myself, I'd have rejected it all too. I am so glad I encountered actual followers of Christ. My life is far richer and adventurous than I would ever have imagined before I found myself in the midst of the good kind who accepted me as I was, didn't try to convert me, just surrounded me with love.
The_REAL_Ecumenist
(737 posts)to make themselves look good to others who have been taught by fake scammy pastors that being Xtian is being a bigot, misogynists, ad nauseum, "cherrypicking" commandments & Biblical verses that suit what they're taught, hateful toward others, ESPECIALLY the homeless, the poor, refugees, immigrants, (that aren't lily white, that is, which apparently excuses their being undocumented) while never realising that Jesus was a JEW but NOT European descent more like the Sephardic, Abyssinian or Landino type, you know...dark skinned, eyed & haired, (very curly hair); He was HOMELESS, hung out with folks considered to be, in that time, OUTCASTS, tax collectors, the Poor, Children, Women, Sex Workers, (AKA Prostitutes); He was POOR, especially after He began his ministry in the ;ast 3 years of his life. He was what these types would consider to be an "Illegal Immigrant" as an infant when the Angel told His earthly father, Joseph, to pack up Mary, the baby & bounce out of Judah to Egypt & stay there until told by the same Angel when it was safe to come back, (Same situation with MOSES, except he was floated down the Nile from Goshen, which is where the Israelites lived); They idiots are NOT Christians but hypocrites and completely goes against what Christ taught about going around praising themselves and praying in public for clout, aka the Pharisees or talking about how holy they were & how everyone else was going to be damned, aka the Saducees.
I would have never thought that I would refuse to go to an actual church unless it's a wedding, celebration of Life, Midnight Mass, (I married a Bohemian Czech from Central Texas-CATHOLIC, so... ) because I attended church EVERY sunday and I was also the music director AND was in protestant Christian Schools where I saw these fake Xtians and as an AA child, I listened to so called pastors talk about how black Gospel music was "jungle music", ad nauseum. I have since understood that God does NOT need a building made by human hands, that He's everywhere & most importantly, in the hearts of His children.
It always pisses me off when I hear folks claim to be Christians but they hate Jews, (did I mention that Jesus was a Jew?) and hate ANYONE whose ancestors don't hail from Europe. It's all about marketing and that disgusting prosperity christianity that is about as real as a mud window & the stupid people who follow that nonsense never actually study the Bible because if they did, they'd know that they're being lied to.
It's nice to meet someone on DU who sees & understands that there is a TRUE & REAL CHRISTIANITY. I've been a member here on DU since 2004 but had to make a new account because I couldn't remember my pw after I flunked hospice in 2011, survived bleeding out my entire blood volume 2x & cardiac arrest, which resulted in 3 NDE's where I met the being I honestly believe was God face to face, Childhood rape, brutal abuse at the hands of the thing I laughingly refer to as my father even somehow surviving the breaking in of our house by a sexual predator who had raped and murdered two other little girls about 2 miles down the street I lived on. The craziest thing? My brother and I had been allowed to sleep in the front room in sleeping bags & the creep literally stepped into the window I was sleeping under but he thought I was a boy because he could see his face but I sleep with my head under the covers. One day, I'll tell the story. Yes indeed, there is a God who cares about us.
Happy Mama's Day to you if you're a mother, to your mom, sisters, friends, grandmothers or a single daddy of human children or furbabies! Blessings to you!
summer_in_TX
(2,801 posts)Happy Mama's Day to you as well! I love your list of the many ways and beings we mother and/or have been mothered.
So glad to meet someone else here who has had their life transformed by the love of God. Your rant is righteous!
Are you still in Central Texas? We are in Hays County.
BTW, I'm so proud of my denomination (United Methodist) for finally succeeding after trying since 1972 when conservatives managed to slip hateful language into our Book of Discipline and then worked in very underhanded ways manipulating delegates from the more conservative global South into helping them block every attempt to vote it out. But we finally did it! We are able to fully include LBGTQ, ordain, and marry. If ratified, regions and churches will decide their comfort level. I trust the Spirit will lead them into the full inclusion that many of us already believe God intends for all those he created. These all passed by a supermajority so we are hopeful about ratification. My local church is fully on board. The length of time we stayed closed during the pandemic and issues many had with a young pastor caused the hardliners to find other churches. We looked around after we opened back up and found no impediment any longer to being the people most of us feel called to be, to love and serve everyone God created.
thenelm1
(882 posts)You know, the time with all the smiting, retribution and all that kind of stuff.
ArkansasDemocrat1
(1,438 posts)A HERETIC I AM
(24,399 posts)![](https://quotesthoughtsrandom.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/colbert-poor.png)
niyad
(114,577 posts)Mike Nelson
(10,029 posts).. "Christians" should really be labeled a different religion. They have a completely different mindset ... very far from the traditional teachings of Jesus Christ. Of course, this isn't the first time people en masse have taken a religious figure's "peace and love" message and turned it into a "war and hate" crusade.
surfered
(753 posts)What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, Depart in peace, be warmed and filled, but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
Walleye
(31,345 posts)They didnt want to help these lazy college kids pay off their loans, which were practically usury. And they didnt even have to spend any money. It was just resentment because somebody tried to improve themself and needed help. I was ashamed of the Americans who didnt want to help pay back student loans
jaxexpat
(7,006 posts)..........as Jesus said, "I will be with you for only a short time, but the Harkonnens you will always have."
Escurumbele
(3,437 posts)overleft
(363 posts)They are reminiscent of the religous leaders of that time. The pharasees and sadducees who persecuted Jesus Christ because He preached and did the things that you mentioned. Healing the sick, feeding the hungry, etc.
Mariana
(14,867 posts)Are they atheists? Are they secretly followers of some other religion?
Iggo
(47,679 posts)We can argue about whether theyre good Christians or bad Christians, but theyre definitely Christians.
raging moderate
(4,342 posts)The Romans had invaded Judea and continued to rule pompously, viciously, and greedily. They demanded large taxes from the conquered people of the land. They marched around blaring their trumpets and shouting bully slogans. They staged massacres when their narcissism was not sufficiently assuaged. Jesus mentioned a few of them, including one in which the Romans stormed a temple during a service and massacred several hundred people. The Romans set up crosses in many places, with various people tortured to death. People had property confiscated frequently. At the meeting where the Pharisees decided that Jesus had to be turned over to the Romans to be killed, their leader told the undecided ones, "You have to accept the fact that we MUST turn this man over to the Romans now, or they will sweep over our land and massacre most of us." If you read between the lines of the story where Pontius Pilate presides at Jesus's trial, you can feel that he is taunting the crowd, toying with them to extract the words he wants them to shout. The Jewish people obviously were living in constant fear.
keithbvadu2
(37,387 posts)There are two major groups of Christians in our country;
Christians of faith and
Political Christians who praise proud adulterer Trump who does not need Christs forgiveness and ridicules Holy Communion.
.
When a theocracy takes over America, which church (Christian of course) will be in charge?
Will the others accept their rule?
Many Catholics/Protestants consider the other to be false Christians.
Would they accept Mormons as the rulers?
The new rulers will be political Christians rather than Christians of faith.
Consider CBR Cash Based Religion.
ProudMNDemocrat
(17,163 posts)Those who say the United States is "a Christian Nation" are the ones who abhor all that is good in other people of different faiths not based in Christianity. They find it difficult to find common ground in tenets that emphasize goodness in others, taking care of the Earth and its resources, etc.
These so-called Christians fail to realize that the first Christian church that was established before the 4th Century while the Roman Empire was still in existence, ultimately became the Catholic Church. That all other denominations of the Catholic Church derived from it once the Protestant Reformation began sweeping Europe in the early 16th Century under a Catholic Monk named Martin Luther.
Learning the history of the Christian Church is too much for these people. Too "WOKE" I reckon!
RandomNumbers
(17,702 posts)This is NOT a Christian nation.
Of course we have very different reasons for our opinions.
And we disagree on whether it SHOULD be "Christian" in the sense they want it to be.
I think it would be GREAT if we had separation of church and state, but people behaved in the way I was taught was "Christian" (mostly Sermon on the Mount and other red-letter Gospel stuff).
spanone
(136,139 posts)Bettie
(16,199 posts)Second, you definitely speak for me....so many of the right wing "Christians" are all-in for making the rich richer and screwing over everyone else.
ProudMNDemocrat
(17,163 posts)I wonder how the "Christian Nationalists" handle that?
Bettie
(16,199 posts)replaced the Jesus stuff.
Passages
(314 posts)"bad, terrible, awful" government. The Republican fix is less taxes, then you can afford food, rent, etc.
Not at all true but it seems to work for them when they pair it with their other xenophobic, racist messages.
NanaCat
(2,140 posts)You follow that jaysus, but refuse to acknowledge that another one exists who has his own following. You know, the guy who trash-talked foreigners. The one who assaulted people for a non-violent offense. The one who promoted divisiveness. The one who tells the abused to suck it up and take more abuse, rather than standing up for themselves (turn the other cheek is domestic abuser heaven). And especially the one who thinks it's necessary to hurt people forever if they disagree with what he peddles.
They especially follow the guy who made it crystal clear that he was all for slavery, forcing rape victims to marry their assailants, killing disobedient children, killing homosexuals, killing people working on the Sabbath--the whole shebang of awful OT laws, he was for. It's right there in Matthew 5:17-18, and don't try to tap-dance your way around that fact.
That is the guy that those Christians follow--and they are as much of Christians as you are, like it or not. They have just as much of a basis for claiming to be his followers as you do. They get what they believe from the same book that you do. THERE IS NO BLOODY DIFFERENCE ABOUT THE SOURCE.
All of this nonsense about who's more-Christian-than-thou is something Christians need to hash out amongst yourselves--and preferably where decent people don't have to witness it. Go have an umpteenth ecumenical council behind closed doors and get it settled, once and for all, because it grows tiresome to see these ridiculous and invalid assertions trotted out over and over again.
Sibelius Fan
(24,411 posts)Have you read everything Jesus supposedly said? Like the stuff about demanding you hate your family to follow him? Like the stuff about youre going to hell if you dont accept him as your savior, no exceptions? Like calling the Canaanite woman a dog? Like it would have been better that you were never born if you dont accept him? Like burning in hell for eternity if you dont accept him.
Gentle Jesus, meek and mild indeed.
Jesus was no bargain. He is certainly no role model.
Elessar Zappa
(14,244 posts)The core of the Gospels is loving your neighbor as yourself. Which encompasses all the things Nance mentions. Thats the most frequent message. So yeah, I think hes a fine role model. And Im not a Christian.
Mariana
(14,867 posts)Now what?
brooklynite
(95,406 posts)The flaw in Christianity (and pretty much every other religion) is that their tenets are sufficiently broad and vague that an adherent can find whichever principles to live by that they want and conveniently ignore the others.
The same "feed the poor" god was apparently okay with genocide (topical today), owning slaves, subjugating women, stoning unruly children, etc.
slightlv
(3,021 posts)and I'm not even arguing with what you said. You can find it all in that Book.
But what people don't think about... don't consider... is that it's the culture around the religion that makes it so. All these "books" were written hundreds of years after the death of that "Christ"... most by those who'd heard third and fourth hand any info. And the stories within them are almost all gathered from other religions in the area at the time, and modified to fit what the authors wanted them to show.
Who knows if there even -was- a "Christ" that the bible teaches about? There were a lot of christs running around declaring themselves the messiah at that time. So many, it was a real pain in the butt to the Romans. And there isn't one good admonition in the bible that you can't find any almost any other religion... in that area and beyond it. There are some "truths" that are just ethically based across people. As a Seeker decades ago, I sought out the core truths amongst many of them and found it to be a "truth."
Culture and society changes the religion. Religion wishes it wasn't so, and fights with all their power to tamp it down to the barest minimum. But when the shekels start disappearing, the church will change inch by inch to get them coming back into the offering basket. The church has a vested interest in controlling the masses. The masses just want to be free. The government sides with the church as long as controlling the masses is a shared aim. The whole damn thing is politics at its base. Anyone looking for something spiritual or soul comforting is not going to find it in a church. It will be by searching out and discovering your own truths... and eventually creating a path of your own you can follow in good faith.
These Christians of today are no different than those of the 4th century. They don't like what their bible says... they want the freedom to change it as they see fit. So, bit by bit, they're trying to overtake the churches and remake them into what they envision it should be. Our government is in bed with the church (taken as a global whole), and has been for decades now. As long as it's about controlling the masses of us, getting us to back their visions, all is good. But the masses are in complete turmoil now. Call it cognitive dissonance. And thus, the churches can't find the way to control us; we've presently got a govt that is trying its best to be at arms length to the church, and those who are influencing the church are winning converts over to their side. By the time the whole damn thing has been worked out -- either by blood or diplomacy -- the Christian church is going to something completely different from what it is now, because of the changes our culture will have implanted in it. These Christianists (that's what I call them) are the seeds for the death of the church, globally, eventually. And I feel its going to be sooner rather than later. This church isn't just the christian church, either. You can see the same thing happening in Islam and Hindu religions. The masses are trying to turn away and/or change the church back to what they deem it should be, and the PTB are fighting them tooth and nail on it. That's why I said it'll settle either by blood or diplomacy.
Right now, Turning Point, NAR, and other Evangelical based religions have just "appropriated" the label of Christianity because that's the major religion in this country. Just because they've appropriated the moniker doesn't mean they've accepted the tenets or beliefs. They've picked out what they like -- what we would call the bad parts (like slavery, genocide, etc), and taken them as their own in creating their own brand of christianity. Most people want to better themselves and society around them. These people are hooked on evil. They see it as more powerful than good. Unfortunately, good people have already appropriated the label of "Satanists" and that path is too soft and wishy-washy for what these people want to accomplish. I believe they could and would have chosen that label given half the chance, but again... the Satanists have already set their path, and thanks to those like LaVey, they were into such shock jock techniques it couldn't be bended to fit what the christianists wanted today. Besides, the religion is just too small in numbers to help them accomplish their ends. All hail satan! (gryn)
What I find hilarious is how stupid these magas are about the book they proclaim. The things they fight against, aren't even mentioned in the book... or if it is, it's written about in completely different formats. They have to twist the words into puzzles to make it come out the way they want. They try to link disparate books of the bible to each other... like linking Revelation and other prophecy to Daniel in the OT. They might as well be scrying into a crystal ball. Their "prayers" of all types have all the formula of a spell included in them. They're not prayers to a god,.. they're setting up spells to act on reality, instead of having the cajones to actually affect the work themselves.
Sorry for rambling. This is just one piece of the politics today that I have a vested interest in. Plus, I'm trying to come out of a lupus flare today and that leaves my head a bit foggy, and words go on, rather than fit themselves concisely.
Like I said, I'm not arguing with what you said, brook... in fact, I agree with it. I just don't think people are going far enough, or deep enough, into the reasons. I graduated 3 hours shy of a degree in Anthropology, and sometimes that piece of me just won't lay still.
lees1975
(4,001 posts)the lens of western civilization. The same God was not okay with any of those things, and if you read, and interpret, the narrative in the context of the culture in which it was written, it makes more sense, though a lot of that culture is lost to us. But you can't pick up those texts and read them as if they were written for a literal interpretation of whatever culture that reads them whenever they read them.
Conservative Christians in the United States have gotten good at taking verses, which are really just reference points put in by the printer, not actual literary devices used by Bible writers, and using them to apply to whatever they want in whatever way they want. But the Bible can't be interpreted in bits and pieces, and it can't be interpreted without its original context.
Skittles
(153,677 posts)for example, why the lack of organs (as in body) for donations? People die ever day because they don't get what they need. Why are there continuous appeals for blood donations? so-called "Christians" should be volunteering to do more than going to church
TexasBushwhacker
(20,318 posts)is Jimmy Carter and they vilify him every chance they get.
keithbvadu2
(37,387 posts)I was originally against Carter because he was just another phony Christian.
I was wrong.
Our Mammon worshiping, political Christians have overwhelmed those few good ones.
https://democraticunderground.com/100216154899
Model35mech
(1,713 posts)What more is there to know about how screwed up American right-wing xristianity has become?
Traildogbob
(9,018 posts)He took bribes of gold and jewels from 3 kings the day he was borne. Thats the teachings GQP politicians live by. So they do, follow some of the examples set by their savior.
kimbutgar
(21,381 posts)Those mega church attendees are fools who are being tricked and lied to by false prophets!
AmBlue
(3,161 posts)...won't hesitate to vote for the heretics every single time. Sickening.
AllaN01Bear
(19,506 posts)AmBlue
(3,161 posts)I imagine it's quite a lonely path in this world, but I congratulate you and apologize if I offended. I was raised in the church and have become so disillusioned by the hypocrisy of so many, including my own family members, that wear the Christian label, but are so NOT doing the walk. They idolize TSF, and will do everything possible to ram their religion down everyone else's throats, including depriving women of their right to privacy and healthcare and criminalizing them in the process, deeming themselves the sole arbiter of what all our children are allowed to read in school.... the list of offenses is as long as my arm. The Christian religion has been co-opted by truly evil, power-hungry forces in this country, and it is long past time that "real" Christian leadership-- if they truly still exist-- rise up in numbers and speak out against it.
AllaN01Bear
(19,506 posts)i aggrree with your statement.
markodochartaigh
(1,254 posts)Ezekiel 16:49:
Behold this was the iniquity of Sodom thy sister, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance, and the idleness of her, and of her daughters: and they did not put forth their hand to the needy, and to the poor.
Crowman2009
(2,531 posts)And their Bible has been used as a tool for this very purpose.
czarjak
(11,467 posts)Feelin' pretty good, y'all. How 'bout chew? BTW, my Congressperson Jodey Arrington tries to have it both-ways. "We still have Jesus.", loves quoting cherry-picked scriptures, touts his pro-slavery, anti-abortion, Southern Baptist heritage like it's something to be proud of., Aaaaaaaaaand, he took marching-orders from W. In other words, a R-E-A-L POS.
AllaN01Bear
(19,506 posts)also tell them about chapter 11 of the treaty of tripoli . get blank stares on that one .
Democracy Defender
(6 posts)The way Ive heard it explained is that they dont think those things should be handled thru the government, but rather thru private charities such as the church.
AllaN01Bear
(19,506 posts)quietly , without noise and with out fanfare . most of us like it that way thank you very much.
Permanut
(5,831 posts)JHB
(37,179 posts)..."I'm more Christian than these people, and I'm an atheist."
marble falls
(58,441 posts)LetMyPeopleVote
(146,760 posts)The founders signed a treaty affirming that the US was NOT founded as a christian nation
Link to tweet
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