BS Tee Shirt my S-I-L wore at Thanksgiving

[edhopper]

She's a sweet person, but this was pretty passive/aggressive.

I made no comment. But, you know it's us atheist that are so angry and in-your-face these days, right?

[hlthe2b]

1. If one has to "advertise," how "faithful" are they, really?

:eyes:

[MineralMan]

2. I want a T-shirt that says:

You might as well start shaking
off the dust of your feet now!

MATTHEW 10
14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off THE DUST of your feet.

[DeSwiss]

15. Good one!

- Actually it's EXCELLENT!



K&R

[MineralMan]

24. Trouble is, only about 5% of Christians would get it.

Few have bothered to actually read the Bible and, even though that line appears three time in the first four books of the NT, they won't have ever seen it.

[ET Awful]

3. Those type of people should read their Bible more . . .

Matthew 6:5-6

And when you pray, you shall not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Truly I say to you, They have their reward.

But you, when you pray, enter into your closet, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father which is in secret; and your Father which sees in secret shall reward you openly.

[dixiegrrrrl]

6. Think we should put " Matthew 6: 5-6" on a t-shirt!

bet we could put out a whole line of bible passage numbers that would drive the fundies nutz.
You KNOW they would be diving for their bibles to look them up.

[C_U_L8R]

4. religion is the path to sell more t-shirts

to more suckers seeking a short-cut to true spirituality.

[edhopper]

5. Of course the arrogance of this shirt

is amazing. Everyone else just has a religion. Christians are the ones God comes to.

[cleanhippie]

7. If that was worn at our dinner, there may have been an accident with the gravy....

That stuff can spill without notice and get all over a shirt...

[benddem]

8. My religious education

is limited, but I do know a bit about Christ. Nothing I know would indicate he wants his name on bumper stickers.

[Vinnie From Indy]

9. I put the biblical verses on my underwear

[madrchsod]

10. the front is cool but..

the back..nope.

[pokerfan]

11. very cool

This means that they can start paying their taxes.

Most churches in America have organized as "501c3 tax-exempt religious organizations." Churches were only added to section 501c3 of the tax code in 1954.

[darkstar3]

12. Did anyone else notice the lion of Richard?

I doubt that's there by accident...

[Sal316]

13. Aaaaaaand......

.....this is different from the atheist billboard and bus campaigns, how?

If ad campaigns like those above are supported and encouraged, then complaining about a t-shirt is rather hypocritical.

(BTW.. I find church marketing like this to be God awful - pun intended)

[darkstar3]

14. It's different because billboards don't try to redefine the word atheism.

This shirt is completely contradictory and attempts to push a false message that God himself has chosen Christianity as the right faith-not-religion.

Leave it to you to try false equivalency.

[Sal316]

16. You keep telling yourself that...

But billboards that say "All Religions are Fairy Tales" or "Imagine No Religion" or the like are just as in your face and offensive (to some) as the t-shirt above or the "Why do atheists hate America" billboards.

Both are advertising that their way is the only/correct way. Which, BTW, was the original point.

"But, you know it's us atheist that are so angry and in-your-face these days, right?"
Like I said...billboards and bus campaigns.

If one has to "advertise," how "faithful" are they, really?
See above.

Of course the arrogance of this shirt is amazing.
No more arrogant than calling all religions fairy tales.

Leave it to you to imagine a logical fallacy where there is none.

The 'redefining atheism' is simply a red herring.

[darkstar3]

17. Still a false equivalency.

Don't you get tired of grasping at so many straws?

[Sal316]

21. No, it's not.

Both claim they're the 'correct' way of thinking.
Both are/can be either passive/aggressive or in your face.
Both can be seen as offensive by the intended target.

The only way this is a false equivalency is if you boil it down to something like: "people can wear t-shirts but not billboards", at which point, you would have descended into asininity.

[darkstar3]

23. Yes, it is.

See, I can be contrary too.

Billboards are not in your home, and don't interfere with your turkey dinner.
The atheist billboards in question aren't blatantly contradictory and stupid.
The atheist billboards in question didn't include one of the chief symbols from the crusades. (Two if you count the usage of the old gothic style cross.)

I could go on, but I won't. The only equivalence between the two is that both billboards and t-shirts are free speech, and guess what? Free speech also means that people on this board can show the shirts for the abject stupidity they are without a single worry about your precious hypocrisy.

Now come on out with it: You think this shirt is stupid, but for some reason you don't think people here should say so. Why?

[Sal316]

25. I agreed that this shirt is awful in my OP.

(BTW.. I find church marketing like this to be God awful - pun intended)

Remember?

Billboards are not in your home, and don't interfere with your turkey dinner.

You went there...hahahah!

The atheist billboards in question aren't blatantly contradictory and stupid.

That's your opinion. Doesn't make it fact.

The atheist billboards in question didn't include one of the chief symbols from the crusades.

OH EM GEE! Those evil oppressive t-shirt designers and their agenda to "take over the world!"
Whatever, Pinky. Guess everyone should remove any and all gothic design styles (stained glass, text) because that, too, began to appear during the crusade period.

Puh-leeze.

The original point was, and still is, that to criticize one as aggressive and in your face while turning around, doing the same to some other group, and then telling them to essentially "get over themselves" is hypocritical. Not acknowledging it is willful ignorance.

I think both are obnoxious and stupid. That's my opinion. In fact, I'm more offended by the church-y shirt because I believe it cheapens the message of the gospel. It turns Jesus into nothing more than a marketing campaign, something that gnaws at the very core of what I believe.

The atheist billboards and bus campaign, in my opinion, are nothing more than a public tantrum.

Both are free speech and neither deserves more 'protection' than any other.

To reiterate:

Both can be seen as offensive by the opposite group. To ignore or dismiss this fact is ignorance.

[darkstar3]

31. Dodging the question is an art with you, isn't it?

To reiterate:
Now come on out with it: You think this shirt is stupid, but for some reason you don't think people here should say so. Why?

ETA: Your individual rebuttals are less than worthless, especially your refusal to see how the symbol that led Christians into battle against unbelievers is in bad taste, but what I really think is funny is your "public tantrum" comment. Take a look at this site and then you tell me whether it's the atheists or the Christians throwing a tantrum in public...http://www.dangeroustalk.net/billboard-wars.html

[LAGC]

40. LOL

I visited one of the featured web-sites on those Christian bill-boards in your link there: http://PullThePlugOnAtheism.com and it turns out its one of Ray Comfort's propaganda sites. He sure has a chip on his shoulder about atheists, doesn't he?

[darkstar3]

43. He's not the only one, as evidenced here quite often. n/t

[Sal316]

41. I agreed the shirt is stupid....

...but the second half of your statement is simply your desperation and need for there to be a black or white, a right or wrong, in order to justify your overwhelming need to feel victimized by those nasty, overbearing believers.

Seriously, get over yourself. You know, if you look hard enough, long enough I'm sure you'll see something that just might look like someone's oppressing you. To me, that's just a sad way to go through life.

So, the Cross, which had been a part of the Christian faith for 400-600 years prior to the crusades should now be tossed out because of that? Seriously?

Hell, based on that logic, we should toss aside the US flag because it led Americans into 'battle' that resulted in displacing and killing thousands of Native Americans along with the indigenous populations of other nations.

Same thing.... or is your contempt reserved solely for Christianity?

As far as I'm concerned, both the anti-Atheist billboards, etc., and the pro-Atheism billboards are simply the grown-up version of two kids on the playground yelling "I'm not stupid, you are!" at each other. Both are pointless, unproductive, and unnecessarily provocative.

And, just so you know, if you've ever read anything I've written, my harshest words are reserved not for atheists, but for those Christians who use their faith to divide, to discriminate, to dehumanize, and to spread hate.

[darkstar3]

42. More dodging.

Your false equivalence has failed and now you refuse to answer why you brought it to bear to begin with. No surprise. You also completely dodged the proof I showed you regarding "public tantrum"s, and you dodge the usage of the lion of Richard and my reference to it and hide behind the cross.

"Hide behind the cross"...The newest tactic from the "I'm more persecuted than you!" crowd. Tell us again how you can't post what you actually believe or why you believe it because everyone here mocks and persecutes you. When you're done with that, maybe we can be honest about who's searching for victimhood.

ETA: I just realized that "searching for victimhood" seems to be a really good explanation for what you've been doing here. You can't fault the other posters here for what they're saying about this shirt, but you want to so badly, maybe because it galls you to agree with atheists, I don't know. So what do you do? You find a way to make yourself and your fellow believers look like victims once again. It's interesting as an art, but awful as a debate tactic.

[backscatter712]

19. If she wants to wear her obnoxious T-shirt promoting her sky-daddy, she's perfectly free to.

Of course, we atheists are also free to put up billboards.

That's the First Amendment for you.

[darkstar3]

20. I'd just like to point out that no one has stated she shouldn't have the right to wear the shirt.

Many people here are merely using their own First Amendment rights to express how stupid the shirt is.

Carry on...

[backscatter712]

22. Fair enough. As long as it's T-shirts, billboards & other free expression, it's all cool. n/t

[edhopper]

27. It is different because it was not a billboard

It was a shirt my S-I-L wore at the Thanksgiving table with my largely Catholic In-Laws.
My problem is not that some christian group wants to put forth this silly message.
It is the inappropriateness of her wearing it at this occasion.
I found it rude and insensitive, very un-christian, if you will.

[rug]

18. It's a t-shirt. Get over it.

Or wear your own and post about it.

[edhopper]

28. The difference is I go out of my way

at family functions not to make religion a issue. It's about sharing a meal in a congenial setting.
She on the other hand was provocative and brought disharmony to the dinner.
I could easily bring all my atheist logic and reason arguments in and make everyone defend their beliefs, but that is not why were are together (it's why I am here though). It's called being polite and thoughtful.

[cleanhippie]

29. Polite and thoughtful....thats the problem.

xtians think they ARE being polite and thoughtful when they try to "show us the way" and "save us."

[rug]

30. I take it she said nothing but simply wore the shirt.

If that is true, why do you find her shirt and her belief so offensive?

[edhopper]

32. Wrong.

Her and my B-I-L mentioned their church quite a bit. And later double teamed my other S-I-L about being "saved".

I do not find her belief offensive, any more than an other religion. I find her wearing the shirt to make a statement at the dinner offensive and inappropriate.
Hope you see the difference.

[rug]

34. Then the problem is not her shirt but her mouth.

No reason to politely listen.

But the shirt itself, who cares.

[edhopper]

36. Every body else

at the table. That's who cares. And if a tee offends everybody at the table (besides her hubby) then it is impolite.
I don't see how you don't get this.
Or are you being purposefully obtuse?

[rug]

38. No, I'm not being obtuse.

Nor do I think a t-shirt with a religious message is an affront to everybody at a table.

Unless they're looking for an affront.

[edhopper]

33. See,

I know that that shirt or this one:

Would be offensive to wear at the Thanksgiving table. And would cause disharmony and be hurtful.
Perhaps you don't think those things are important at a family gathering. But I don't think upsetting my wife's family would be the decent thing to do.

[rug]

35. Your image doesn't show.

But there are as many t-shirts as there are opinions.

Unless it was an Aryan Nation shirt, I don't think anybody at my table would be offended by a shirt. But I agree, if somebody popped off about something as well, then it's another matter.

[edhopper]

37. And there are places to wear them and place not too.

It must be great living in a world where you don't care about manners or family feelings.

[rug]

39. I wouldn't know.

Manners and family feelings are paramount in my world. T-shirts are not. Nor is thin skin.

[trotsky]

26. What could be more Christian than yelling "IN YOUR FACE!"?

It's the history of the religion - might as well wear a stupid T-shirt to express the sentiment.

[rrneck]

44. Arrogance and condescension are insulting

regardless of the cause.