Social Security: The Coming Cave-in

[laughingliberal]

If you think the Democratic base is mad at Obama now for making a craven deal with Republicans that continues tax breaks for the richest Americans and adds new ones for their heirs through a big cut in the estate tax, just wait a few weeks until Obama caves on Social Security.

How will this occur? The deficit commission appointed by the President has called for an increase in the retirement age, as well as other cuts in benefits over time. And the deal that Obama made with the Republicans just gave deficit hawks new ammunition by increasing the projected deficit by nearly $900 billion over a decade. Social Security will be in the cross-hairs.

The deficit commission has tried to camouflage these cuts by emphasizing that Social Security benefits for the very poor would not be reduced, and might even be increased. But in the commission's proposal, the cuts would affect middle-class retirees. Larry Summers, who is stepping down as Obama's economic chief, has refused to rule out cuts.

Social Security has also been softened up by the element of the tax deal that temporarily cuts payroll taxes. Supposedly, the trust funds will be made whole by a transfer from general government funds. But this increases the deficit.

So Obama has created a kind of pincer attack on Social Security. One arm is the deficit commission, which has created the blueprint. The other is the tax-cut deal, which increases the deficit, adding to the artificial hysteria that Social Security is going broke. Meanwhile, the right is playing a very cute game, congratulating Obama for the deal. According to columnist Charles Krauthammer, writing in Friday's Washington Post, "Barack Obama won the great tax-cut showdown of 2010." Really? How did he do that? It sure looked like he got rolled. "The President negotiated the biggest stimulus in American history, larger than the 814 $billion 2009 stimulus package."

Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-kuttner/social-security-the-comin_b_795582.html

[somone]

1. "The right is playing a very cute game, congratulating Obama for the deal"

There you have it.

[rocktivity]

2. Yep--two years from now (if not sooner) he'll be making a speech

about how SocSec funding is so depleted he has no choice but to agree to cut benefits and/or raise the retirement age. Raising or eliminating the salary cap is out of the question, of course, because it would result in the Republicans holding America's seniors hostage.

:eyes:
rocktivity

[laughingliberal]

14. I expect we'll see the fight when it comes time to vote to raise the debt ceiling. nt

[stillwaiting]

60. dupe

[stillwaiting]

61. My thoughts exactly. Obama will just "have to do it" or else it will be TEOTWAWKI!! nt

[TheEuclideanOne]

68. TEOTWAWKI?

Sorry, fill me in on the joke. I must be slow this morning.

[14thColony]

74. TEOTWAWKI

It's: The End of the World As We Know It! (and I feel fine...)

[TheEuclideanOne]

113. Thanks!

Well acronymized! (but I don't feel fine)

[Jackpine Radical]

121. YCHCYAQFTJB

Your curiosity has cost you a quarter for the jukebox.

[jtown1123]

71. Yupp.

[freedom fighter jh]

103. Yes, I think that's the "bloodbath" that Alan Simpson is anticipating n/t

[Dr.Phool]

15. Will that be before or after his other speech?

The one where he concedes to President-elect whoever?

If he keeps screwing over his supporters, it's going to happen.

[MissDeeds]

57. I agree

He can't keep screwing over his supporters and expect to win.

[Jackpine Radical]

24. Maybe he'll be able to get another extension of unemployment benefits

for a permanent reduction of SS. 13 months of UE in exchange for permanent cuts in SS. What's not to like about a deal like that?

[Paper Roses]

62. Excuse me? Maybe I misread your post. Please tell me,

Do you think it fair that those of us who live on 'only' SS should have our meager benefit reduced?
I think there should be an extension of Unemployment benefits but not at the expense of Seniors. These same Seniors who paid all their working lives into this system and can now hardly make it on the few dollars that come out way through SS. I know from which I speak. I am one of them.

I lost my job, my husband died and now all that I have is in jeopardy. If they cut SS, there is no way I can pay my monthly bills, let alone my house taxes. There is also something else to consider, I might have to eat now and then.

There is not one red cent left after the 24th of the month. I sit, pay bills and pray nothing will happen that requires shelling out dollars that I do not have.
I have also delayed certain medical care until 2011 so that a procedure need will be covered. I worry every day about that decision. I hope I don't need to buy medicine. Do not have the dollars to afford part D of Medicare.

The fuel company delivered 109 gallons of oil to me last week. $319.00. Good thing I didn't need a full tank. That would have been $1000.00. I will need several full tanks for this winter. Keeps me awake thinking about it.

There are serious issues on both sides of this argument but one side should not suffer to benefit the other.

Just end the GD wars and the political misdeeds and we'll be able to live with some degree of dignity.

[JHB]

80. I suspect sarcasm was in play...

...but if so it should have included a "sarcasm" smiley ( :sarcasm: ), because these days you just can't count on sarcasm being obvious. Every dismaying drop becomes the new normal.

[Jackpine Radical]

83. I'm deeply sympathetic to those whose major or only

income is from SS. I know how little it is. As someone else noted, I was being sarcastic. I usually don't use the little drippy thingie because I assume people will recognize my intent. Sometimes, as apparently here, I don't make the character of my comment clear.

Let me simply say that I very much deplore the hidden SS "poison pill" in the tax legislation, and the whole deal amounts to a short-term gain for the unemployed (which they would probably have gotten anyway) in exchange for the permanent destruction, or at least severe wounding, of one of the few remnants we have left from the New Deal and the traditional Democratic Party.

[molly77]

104. re. short term gain for the unemployed.

Bernie Sanders said , in his 8.5 hour talk in the senate.Anytime unemployment exceeded
7.2%, unemployment insurance was automatically renewed. This has been going on for 40 years by agreement of both parties. So , in actuality, the republicans did not compromise anything!

The bush tax cuts gave us this

2 million workers lost their pensions

8 million slipped out of the middle class into poverty during the bush years.

So renewing bush tax cuts were solely for the top 1% of our country.

This is not the democratic process here. It is fascism.

[Jackpine Radical]

110. Yes.

I acknowledged that fact in my post above:

"the whole deal amounts to a short-term gain for the unemployed (which they would probably have gotten anyway)"

[Poboy]

114. Yes, molly77, that point laid to waste and highlighted the betrayal.

[ooglymoogly]

84. This is exactly what this is all about...pitting the seniors against

working folks for whom this is their retirement. Bought and paid for. It is not the governments to play with. But then this crowd doesn't seem to have any qualms about breaking promissory contracts written in stone and the law.

[awoke_in_2003]

95. as long as we are all...

(and by "all" I mean non-politicians and non-elites) fighting each other they can keep robbing us blind.

[awoke_in_2003]

94. I as about to let you have it...

I got it once I saw the username :hi:

[Jackpine Radical]

111. I guess my sarcasm was a little obscure.

:toast: Back atcha.

[awoke_in_2003]

118. the best kind of sarcasm...

it got me momentarily, but it didn't take long to see it :toast:

[Smashcut]

79. Perfect, except you forgot how he'll slam the "purity police"

[Laelth]

3. Another brilliant essay by Kuttner. Thanks for posting. k&r n/t

-Laelth

[scarletwoman]

4. "It sure looked like he got rolled." I don't think he got rolled at all.

I think he did exactly what he intended to do.

[somone]

5. Yep, he is executing to the plan

[TBF]

7. Exactly right - the American people are the ones who've been rolled. nt

[Individualist]

23. Agree.

[Jackpine Radical]

25. But Obama is the furthest-left President

that the corporations will allow us to have.

[molly77]

105. If Obama were any further to the left, he would not be alive.

[Jackpine Radical]

120. That is possible.

[QC]

47. No, this is who Obama really is, and quite a few people are finally waking up to it.

The man's essential worldview is that of an establishment conservative--not a teabagger, of course, but someone who believes that the 60s were characterized by "excesses," Reagan was a transformational resident, market solutions are always the best, changes must be made very slowly, so-called "free trade" is good for everyone, big gubmint is wicked, etc.

A Reaganite, in other words.

Sad, but there it is.

[BlueJac]

52. You said it..........

he fooled many, but I was listening to his words carefully.........he was a free trade guy all the way. i.e. Friedmanite

[SugarShack]

81. And how...this IS who he is.

[QC]

87. There were plenty of clues back then, in those heady days of pretty speeches

and Oprah appearances, but nobody wanted to be reminded of them.

[scarletwoman]

112. The problem was, what choice did we have?

Once it got down to Obama and Clinton, we were left with a choice between bad and maybe possibly not as bad.

Who among us weren't going to vote for a Democrat for president?

After the execrable performance of the Congressional Dems during the bush* years, I was constantly battling the temptation to never bother voting again. But when it came down to it, I simply couldn't in good conscience sit out the presidential election.

I've voted exclusively Dem since I was first old enough to vote. I realized I just couldn't live with myself if I didn't vote for a Dem for president.

It wasn't that I was convinced by the "pretty speeches", it's just that I still wanted to believe that ANY Dem had to be better than a Republican.

sw

[SugarShack]

82. Indeed...it is who he really IS

[tavalon]

56. Well we don't have many choices here

If you're ruling out that he got rolled, then he's a wolf in sheep's clothing. Is that what you mean to say?

[awoke_in_2003]

96. I won't speak for SW....

but I think "wolf in sheep's clothing" or "wolf guarding the hen house" both fit nicely.

[scarletwoman]

106. No, I think he's always been a wolf in wolf's clothing, it's just that he was so very

fluent in sheep-speak during his campaign that lots of people didn't see the wolf.

I never really felt any of the fervor for Obama that I saw going on around me, I only reluctantly decided to support him once the primary contest was down to just Obma and Clinton because I was so dead set against having another Clinton in the White House -- DLC, NO f**king way!

So, more the fool me, I didn't pick up on the fact that he was just as much a neoliberal/"New Democrat" as any Clinton.

What I DID pick up on was the fact that most of his campaign speeches were essentially content-free. I'd listen to all that high-flown rhetoric and always feel like he really hadn't said anything. It was all show and no actual substance, just whipping folks up into an emotional frenzy with a string of feel-good slogans.

My one concession to "hope" was that I could see he was an intelligent person -- so I thought surely, an intelligent person such as he could plainly see how badly the policies of the past had served this country, and therefore an intelligent person such as he would surely work to reverse them.

I got over that notion immediately upon seeing him stack his administration with recycled Clintonites and Wall Streeters. It was clear we'd been had.

The past two years have simply been a matter of watching to see how much damage he was going to do. With this latest bit -- the big "compromise" -- I feel I've gotten the unequivocal answer: A LOT.

sw

[femrap]

58. Yep....he's

just following orders. No spine. No balls. Just a mouthpiece for TPTB.

Hell, we don't even get any crumbs anymore.

[awoke_in_2003]

97. but you know....

they just increased the chocolate ration :)

[femrap]

108. thanks for the laugh...

but can we still get wine and beer????

In all seriousness, I have really nothing against 'rations' because it keeps the wealthy from buying and hoarding.

I was reading about China today....food prices are up over 11%!!! They're placing price controls on foods. And increasing the amount of money that Banks must keep to back up loans.

It's all a tightrope....a delicate balance that can't last forever.

I do hope the workers of China unite and strike. Hell, I wish the workers of the world would unite and strike.

[awoke_in_2003]

117. Of course we can't get wine and beer...

wine is the drink of the inner party, and beer is for the proles (I must be a prole- I am enjoying one now :) ). Seriously, though- our food prices are up considerably, but they won't admit it. Prices are close, but can sizes are down.

[femrap]

122. Carlo Rossi

is a prole!!! So is $2 Chuck!

Food is way up. And it's going to continue to rise. I shop. I know. The gov't can take their statistics and shove them, along with their polls.

[fascisthunter]

85. exactly

[leftstreet]

6. K&R

[Dr.Phool]

18. Today's Shoe cartoon. Deep down politicians are good people.

http://www.shoecomics.com/

[leftstreet]

19. LOL

:thumbsup:

[laughingliberal]

20. Lol! Thanks! nt

[Jackpine Radical]

26. OMG, I haven't seen Shoe in ages.

I thought the strip had gone defunct or something.

[midnight]

66. True!

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

8. Obama and the Republicans or Obama and the Corporations/Banks/Insurance Cos n/t

[Better Believe It]

9. K & R Sometimes it takes a Democrat to achieve Republican goals.

Bush couldn't do it.

[laughingliberal]

11. Yep. Democrats would unite to fight this if it were a Republican trying it.

But many of them will go along now because there's a Democrat in the White House.

[awoke_in_2003]

98. Only Nixon could go to china...

only democrats will kill SS.

[DJ13]

13. Sometimes it takes a Democrat to achieve Republican goals.

Clinton got more of the Republican wish list passed than even Reagan did.

It seems to be a pattern.

[Enthusiast]

21. A pattern that has become part of an

overall strategy.

[dreamnightwind]

36. Yes, and...

Harold Ford (head of DLC) was on Press The Meet knocking down Rep. Weiner, saying how great a deal this really was for the country. Nice to see the DLC so up-front about where they stand. Next stop, social security!

[Enthusiast]

37. What gets me is how often

we see Harold Ford as the supposed TV spokesman for Democrats. In what universe? The media is so completely controlled now, really in your face controlled. In reality Harold Ford should NEVER be on TV representing the Democratic Party. But where would anyone lodge a complaint against such a choice? TPTB want Harold Ford on TV saying what they want and if not him then some other "acceptable" choice.

[dreamnightwind]

42. Yeah, I know

Ford is everywhere, give me a break.

I agree about the state of the media. In their defense on this one point, I'd say Ford represents the branch of the Democratic Party that is in power. He wouldn't disagree with the Clintons or Barack Obama on many issues. So in that way they're appropriate spokespeople for Dems. It is, though, a circular reinforcement of an ideology shared by the media conglomerates, the DLC, and the corporate interests behind the DLC.

At least they had Weiner on there, he threw a few good punches as they were tasering him. Go down fighting.

[lob1]

72. I wouldn't trust H. Ford to count my pocket change.

[lunasun]

28. I was thinking that too when they trotted Clinton out to endorse the tax cuts nt

[tomp]

41. seems to be? it is the modus operandi and the raison d'etre of the democratic party.. nt

[BzaDem]

10. His request that Warren lead the NEC is stupid. She has MUCH more power at the CPFB. The head of the

NEC is just an advisory position.

[no limit]

51. What is it with you guys and your new attacks on Warren?

[liberation]

99. Monday morning...

... new dump of talking points.

[salinen]

12. This is Bushes

third term.

[dionysus]

50. you can do better.

[tavalon]

115. I can

It's Clinton's third term, only a bit harsher.

[old mark]

16. K&R....nt

[pacalo]

17. If I ran the household budget with this same mentality, my husband would think I was

losing my mind. After driving our finances into a deep hole once, he'd had taken over the finances.

Let's say I talk him into buying large items that go beyond what we can afford, putting us deep into debt, barely able to make ends meet each month: a large, showy home we don't need; two luxury cars; a sailboat; plasma tv's in every room; nice designer clothes; etc. (This is a household's exhorbitant budget comparable to the national budget's included expense of two wars.)

In the meantime, my husband seeks advice from his financial advisor, asking him where to make cuts (!). Instead of telling us to downsize & get rid of some of our luxury items, the advisor says to cut down on food & other grocery items, doctor visits, & utilities.

The leaders whose priorities are so out-of-touch with the average citizen are rich people. Put some ordinary housewives in charge of the national budget & I know they'll make the right choices to balance the damn budget.

[RKP5637]

22. The R's will pay him back for this over and over with many thanks and

much obstruction IMO over the next two years and the 2012 election. I hope I am wrong.

[laughingliberal]

27. I think they've been clear what their intentions are. nt

[RKP5637]

32. Doesn't leave much to the imagination, does it ... n/t

[lunasun]

29. wish you were wrong too but not looking good!

[nashville_brook]

30. things are getting ready to be very ugly...Krauthammer pats Obama on the back.

"finally come over to our side," he says.

[laughingliberal]

33. Well, if that doesn't tell the story...nt

[avaistheone1]

31. Strongly agree on all points.

:kick:

k&r

[sabrina 1]

34. And the sad thing is that SS should not even be in the same

conversation as the Deficit. Obama has repeatedly tied the two together, using language designed to create that false impression. And our useless media does nothing to educate the public.

This is the real reason for the Deficit Commission. To pave the way to privatize SS, starting with raising the retirement age and cutting benefits for people who are now under 58.

I'll say this, if they touch SS and Democrats go along with it, they will be finished as far as the next election goes.

:kick:

[laughingliberal]

35. +1000 nt

[scarletwoman]

38. If (WHEN) they touch SS, I won't give a shit about the Democratic Party, it's the future of

the ordinary citizens of this country that's going to be finished -- reduced to permanent economic bondage to Wall Street predators.

[katnapped]

39. And when it DOES happen

Expect to see the cheerleaders here lauding the plan, saying "It was the best we could do, so oh well". Don't be surprised to see those same people abopting the right-wing's "Well the poor and elderly need to go out to work then" memes.

[Better Believe It]

45. How about: "It would be even worse with Republicans!"

A Democratic campaign slogan for 2012 could be "We may stink but at least we are not crazy!"

[QC]

46. There will also be many cries of "You never really loved him anyway!"

and PUMA! PUMA! directed at those who believe in Social Security.

It's so predictable.

[xchrom]

40. connecting the deficit and SS are pretty much sure signs.

having erskin bowles and alan simpson chair your commission are goddamned 5 alarm bell going off.

[Goldstein1984]

43. Retirement has become an abstract concept for me

After what the recession has done to me and my family, I will not be retiring. I'll be working until I can't any longer.

[blindpig]

44. This is so predictable

[midnight]

107. Love the dog and pony.

[pleah]

48. K&R

[BrklynLiberal]

49. Excuse me..I am feeling very sick to my stomach..gotta go........

THIS was definitely not the change I voted for.

[myrna minx]

53. K&R n/t

[Faygo Kid]

54. As soon as he appointed Simpson and Bowles the fix was in - and Social Security is doomed.

This payroll tax "holiday" is the nail in the coffin. Ultimately, absent war, this is what Obama will be remembered for - the dismemberment of Social Security, and I say that with great sadness.

I will reach Social Security eligibility age in just a very few years. I thought it would be there for me, anyway, if not for my mid-30s daughter. But now I think its destruction will come sooner than expected, and will indeed affect me. Is this really what the Tea Partiers had in mind?

[Hoyt]

55. Rather than a so-called cave-in, it could be a "conspiracy" to dramatically increase the wage cap.

[sulphurdunn]

59. It's more than Social Security

What is happening became inevitable when the Democratic Party limited its presidential choices to the rightists Obama or Clinton when they could have run a sponge against the Republicans and still won. The problem the Democrats had was finding rightists who could convincingly masquerade as progressives. They settled on two: a woman and a black man, both designed to appeal to the progressive base of the Party. They let them slug it out. Either would have done. Either was a shoe in to win. It was necessary for Wall Street to back a Democrat because Bush was so despised that no real chance existed to steal the election for another Republican at that time.

[JEB]

63. They can take SS

when they pry it from my cold dead hands.

[GinaMaria]

70. that's the plan

you die and they don't have to give you your money back!

[David Zephyr]

64. K&R #96.

!

[katty]

65. apparently, the 'hostage' is co-operating w/the ReThugs

continuing to underscore the fact that we have a single party run country.

[CLANG]

67. They don't seem to care that most "middle class retirees"

are "middle class" only by virtue of their SS payments. Take those away, and millions wash away into the faceless sea of the poor and homeless.

These greedy motherfuckers will get their due someday and I'll be right there to dance on their graves!
:mad:

[DirkGently]

69. Obama specifically identified SS and Medicare as the "long term" "spending" issues to be dealt with.

Edit: He said this on his brief NPR interview right after announcing his proposed deal to extend the Bush tax cuts.

So, yes, it looks like he may onboard with the Republican narrative that it's not endless trillions in war spending, nor hundred of billions in gifts to the wealthiest fraction of Americans, but the problem of people receiving the Social Security benefits they paid for their entire lives that will have to be addressed to reduce the deficit.

Pending action of President Obama's (not words) that contradict this, I see no basis to assume otherwise than that he will be supporting across-the-board benefit cuts, such as raising the retirement age.

Is ANYONE okay with that? Any Democrat? Any liberal? Anyone?

[defendandprotect]

91. Obviously this is what Obama was sent in to "deal with" -- Anyone doubt it any longer???

[TatonkaJames]

73. Time to give the Middle-Class some breathing room

Here's how I feel about Social Security;

I don't have any ill feelings towards anyone, rich or poor, we are dealt our hands and if we apply ourselves we can go as far as we want if we take the time
to get educated or learn a trade. When we work for 50 years you would think, paying into it, we would have it when we need it most, especially those who made
an average salary and have meager savings. (of course these days it's different from 50 years ago).

Since we so easily allow our representatives to promise things and break them when in office by continuing the wealthy welfare in this country, my plan is;

Anyone who retires with a pension CANNOT continue at their present job and collect their pension, S.S. and a salary. If you live in NJ and NY you know what I am talking about.

Next, when you retire and you have a net worth of, and this is an arbitrary figure, $5 Million, you CANNOT collect S.S.
If you can't live the rest of your life with millions in the bank, then you are living too high on the hog when there are starving children in this country.

I don't know the numbers but I would imagine that would help make S.S. a bit more solvent.

Time for the middle-class to get some perks. Like I said, I don't begrudge anyone for what they have, I just don't like GREEDY people.

JMHO

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[fascisthunter]

86. so basically, retiring will be impossible for me now. What a wonderful

president...

thank you for screwing millions of your own voters just for the wealthy class.

[WillyT]

88. HUGE K & R !!!

:kick:

[Stoic]

89. I voted for "Change"

And we're getting it good and hard.

[defendandprotect]

92. What would it take for you to behave ....

as Obama has?

[defendandprotect]

90. IMO, it's the official announcement that the Democratic Party has been collapsed....

If anyone was waiting for an official announcement -- !!


Think we've all known for a long time now -- ?



:evilgrin:

[awoke_in_2003]

93. "benefits for the very poor would not be reduced"...

they forgot one key word- "yet"

[DirkGently]

100. After the President's comments on NPR, ID'ing SS and Medicare as "future spending" to be addressed,

I think we have to assume he is preparing to agree to Social Security cuts, even though Social Security is not broke, and does not contribute to the deficit.

It would literally be a taking from the middle class to support endless war and tax cuts for the wealthy. The "redistribution of wealth" Obama was accused of favoring during the campaign ... but in reverse.

I see no way Democrats, liberals / progressives, or Americans at large can or should support such a thing.

[liberation]

101. You don't see it yet...

... because we haven't had our friendly DLC reps telling us why such thing is the best thing since sliced bread and why anyone not supporting such a thing is not a "real" Democrat.

They're gearing for that one, after they return from their well deserved vacation from having to spin the caving to the GOP the past week as a "great thing."

[WinkyDink]

102. So sue me: Once Obama made a crack about "not puling the plug on Granny," I figured him for not so

empathic to the elderly (his tone belying the words).

[Seedersandleechers]

109. We are so fucked!

[WoodyM]

116. And all this will come to pass

because we have one very eager republican pushing it: Barack Obama.

[upi402]

119. Sure is quick to sell us out, huh?

He knows the right and the center will always HATE him, yet he betrays his base for them. Smart guys are blinded by arrogance.