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Thu Dec 28, 2017, 02:21 PM

Just had a right-winger, a banker, in my office this morning

Helped him settle a second mortgage for a client. Mind you, I live in rural Georgia, and may be the only liberal within a hundred miles of this place.

After the closing, he told me that his bank, a small local entity, was planning on marketing the hell out of equity lines of credit and second mortgages in 2018.

I asked him if anyone had gotten the message, that the new tax law expressly eliminates the interest deductibility on new and existing home equity loans. He looked at me incredulously, and admitted he hadn't heard that bit of news.

He offered that, perhaps, maybe, there would be some sort of offset hard-wired into the bill that would balance the scales in this regard. I told him, "nope".

He said that the bank had dropped a mint into its upcoming campaign, and that he would be conversing with the Board as soon as he got back to the office.

The bad news is beginning to trickle down to the idiots that vote GOP. We will all suffer, for sure, but the suffering of those who felt so much faux pain over the past several years and elected a bunch of fascists as their saviors is particularly delicious.

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Reply Just had a right-winger, a banker, in my office this morning (Original post)
Mr. Ected Dec 2017 OP
Sophia4 Dec 2017 #1
Demsrule86 Dec 2017 #4
C Moon Dec 2017 #31
SCantiGOP Dec 2017 #34
Hortensis Dec 2017 #51
Chemisse Dec 2017 #68
True Blue American Dec 2017 #71
Scarsdale Dec 2017 #74
Tracer Dec 2017 #83
Hortensis Dec 2017 #77
Eliot Rosewater Dec 2017 #87
LiberalFighter Dec 2017 #63
Demsrule86 Dec 2017 #80
AJT Dec 2017 #5
a kennedy Dec 2017 #11
geardaddy Dec 2017 #18
a kennedy Dec 2017 #26
geardaddy Dec 2017 #32
a kennedy Dec 2017 #40
geardaddy Dec 2017 #41
a kennedy Dec 2017 #45
Plucketeer Dec 2017 #29
Demsrule86 Dec 2017 #42
HelenWheels Dec 2017 #84
Demsrule86 Dec 2017 #85
guillaumeb Dec 2017 #2
SWBTATTReg Dec 2017 #3
getagrip_already Dec 2017 #25
Eliot Rosewater Dec 2017 #6
Hoyt Dec 2017 #7
TheOther95Percent Dec 2017 #8
mainer Dec 2017 #12
Hoyt Dec 2017 #15
mainer Dec 2017 #17
Hoyt Dec 2017 #23
pnwmom Dec 2017 #27
Hoyt Dec 2017 #30
pnwmom Dec 2017 #38
PoindexterOglethorpe Dec 2017 #62
uponit7771 Dec 2017 #82
mainer Dec 2017 #44
RandomAccess Dec 2017 #57
Hoyt Dec 2017 #64
uponit7771 Dec 2017 #90
dhol82 Dec 2017 #43
uponit7771 Dec 2017 #59
CreekDog Dec 2017 #72
gratuitous Dec 2017 #9
Ferrets are Cool Dec 2017 #10
a kennedy Dec 2017 #14
n2doc Dec 2017 #16
Ferrets are Cool Dec 2017 #53
Cosmocat Dec 2017 #49
residentcynic Dec 2017 #89
Blue_true Dec 2017 #65
hatrack Dec 2017 #13
watoos Dec 2017 #19
handmade34 Dec 2017 #20
wishstar Dec 2017 #21
Ilsa Dec 2017 #22
kairos12 Dec 2017 #24
Hoyt Dec 2017 #28
uponit7771 Dec 2017 #60
DDySiegs Dec 2017 #33
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Dec 2017 #35
Mr. Ected Dec 2017 #37
Cosmocat Dec 2017 #50
lark Dec 2017 #36
elleng Dec 2017 #39
not fooled Dec 2017 #55
Honeycombe8 Dec 2017 #46
Blue_true Dec 2017 #66
Honeycombe8 Dec 2017 #69
OnyxSharpie Dec 2017 #73
Honeycombe8 Dec 2017 #75
PatrickforO Dec 2017 #47
Achilleaze Dec 2017 #48
Motley13 Dec 2017 #52
Yavin4 Dec 2017 #54
Bleacher Creature Dec 2017 #56
mdbl Dec 2017 #58
Bernardo de La Paz Dec 2017 #61
ecstatic Dec 2017 #67
still_one Dec 2017 #70
DeminPennswoods Dec 2017 #78
still_one Dec 2017 #81
democratisphere Dec 2017 #76
get the red out Dec 2017 #79
dembotoz Dec 2017 #86
7962 Dec 2017 #88

Response to Mr. Ected (Original post)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 02:22 PM

1. In my view, Paul Ryan will not be re-elected if the reality of that tax bill

 

and his plans for Food Stamps, Social Security and Medicare are realized.

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Response to Sophia4 (Reply #1)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 02:25 PM

4. I think he is going for broke...try to push his poison through and then retire.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #4)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 04:12 PM

31. Or he expects to be president.

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Response to C Moon (Reply #31)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 04:19 PM

34. His plan is very clear and obvious

Watch Trump and the GOP go down in flames in 2018,
The Dems come in and raise taxes and adjust the budget to save the economy,
Run against the damned "they raise taxes every time they get into power" Democrats.

We are always fixated on "the one-third", i.e., Trump's base. But I think after Trump the 2/3 will be much more skeptical of the old GOP bait and switch and much less likely to fall for it.

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Response to C Moon (Reply #31)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 05:18 PM

51. I suspect Ryan is a genuine extremist libertarian.

Total individual freedom a holy grail for him, a cleansing of society of those too weak to put a roof over their head without Social Security also. On the practical side, his patrons the Kochs are at very least pretenses of what he is, and if he wants to be reelected he has to please them first.

Truly, unlike many corrupt others, I believe he's genuinely happy at what was just achieved, his problem how to continue his revolution until all social programs are gone.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #51)

Fri Dec 29, 2017, 12:19 AM

68. I agree. He is a zealot.

Possibly so much so that he will sacrifice his career to get the draconian cuts he so lusts after.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #51)

Fri Dec 29, 2017, 02:42 AM

71. What is worse about Ryan

Is the fact that both Ryan and his Mother lived on SS after his Father died young.

To me,that makes Ryan a monster. Not fit for office. But he will not win this one.

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Response to True Blue American (Reply #71)

Fri Dec 29, 2017, 07:13 AM

74. My Social Security check

will increase a whopping $11.00 monthly starting in Jan. The politicians do not concern themselves with raises, they get plenty of $$$ from lobbyists. They ALL retire with millions, plus retirement checks and full benefits.

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Response to Scarsdale (Reply #74)

Fri Dec 29, 2017, 10:16 AM

83. $11 ?

Count yourself lucky. Mine went up $4.00. Might be enough for a coffee at Dunkin' Donuts.

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Response to True Blue American (Reply #71)

Fri Dec 29, 2017, 07:51 AM

77. Not honestly. But zealots are motivated by their ideals.

Look at how one of our candidates tried to overset the primary election by superdelegate fiat, his belief in the nobility of his goals justifying sacrificing democracy itself to achieve them. And so do Ryan's.

Libertarians foolishly envision a world of stronger, healthier, freer people, who will pay far less for healthcare when prices are set by free market forces without government interference.

He's a zealot because that has never worked and never will. Any third world economic laboratory is proof. But the rise and ruthless lust for power and wealth of a billionaire class right here--which government didn't stop--is also proof.

But zealots are hardly known for wisdom, or restraint. I agree with Chemisse that he may well invest his current career in making this happen, any way it takes.

And I agree with you that he's a monster because he doesn't care what 200 million registered voters want or what a giant national experiment would do to the lives of 330 million.

And because people suffering from the (new and huge but ultimately passing) epidemics of heart, kidney and endocrine disease that developed with new ways of working and living have no place in his free world. A very different definition of what "problem" to attack and how to solve it than what public health experts are working on.


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Response to Hortensis (Reply #51)

Fri Dec 29, 2017, 12:59 PM

87. No, he is a prick who is greedy and will at the drop of a hat use government programs

to better his life but wants to take them away because when he was a teenager he saw a black woman in line with food stamps holding up the line.

He would not last one day without the government, he is a punk and a prick and I would call him more names but you get the point.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #4)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 11:14 PM

63. There needs to be a way where scum like him suffer financially and

become persona non grata.

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Response to LiberalFighter (Reply #63)

Fri Dec 29, 2017, 08:01 AM

80. That would be great but I don't see it happening.

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Response to Sophia4 (Reply #1)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 02:28 PM

5. Ryan represents a very very white part of very very white WI. The people he represents

think "those people" in Milwaukee are getting free stuff paid for with their hard earned money so getting rid of food stamps and the like would make them happy.

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Response to AJT (Reply #5)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 03:05 PM

11. Got tonsO people here in little ol Dakota,MN that think the same way.....

free stuff, free stuff, free stuff. Ugh, but many receive SSI, and unemployment benefits, AND even food stamps, but OMGOSH, itís always someone else that is getting all the FREE STUFF.

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Response to a kennedy (Reply #11)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 03:40 PM

18. What CD are you in?

Who's your State Rep and Senator? I only ask because I'm in Minneapolis and like to know what's going on in outstate MN.

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Response to geardaddy (Reply #18)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 04:04 PM

26. First CD, Tim Walz, Amy and used to be Al Franken

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Response to a kennedy (Reply #26)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 04:16 PM

32. Oh, I thought you might be in Lewis' CD.

As for senator, I meant State Senator and State rep.

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Response to geardaddy (Reply #32)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 04:36 PM

40. Oooops, sorry here:

Senator Jeremy R. Miller, and Gene Pelowski (DFL)

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Response to a kennedy (Reply #40)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 04:41 PM

41. Thanks. Jeremy Miller looks like a dick.

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Response to geardaddy (Reply #41)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 05:05 PM

45. Ha ha ha, hes ok for a repub, but ya sure looks like one.......

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Response to a kennedy (Reply #11)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 04:09 PM

29. It's always someone else

 

getting "free stuff" that doesn't deserve it - unlike the complainers - that rightfully have the free stuff coming to them.

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Response to AJT (Reply #5)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 04:41 PM

42. I lived in Janesville for a couple of years...and that is not true.

They elect Ryan because he is the hometown boy who did good. Many I knew voted for Obama and Ryan.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #42)

Fri Dec 29, 2017, 11:40 AM

84. Ryan might be a hometown boy but he didn't do good.

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Response to HelenWheels (Reply #84)

Fri Dec 29, 2017, 12:26 PM

85. He is a Congressman and now House leader...they think that is 'good'. I agree with you.

I hear old Ryan may be in trouble though...folks usually hate the majority leader. Also some of the stuff he wants to do is not popular with his constituents.

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Response to Mr. Ected (Original post)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 02:24 PM

2. Yet another well informed conservative voter.

Unfortunately, we all suffer when uninformed voters vote.

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Response to Mr. Ected (Original post)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 02:25 PM

3. Not surprised...just wait until all of the other 'bricks' drop and people

realize just actually what has been passed 100% in this new tax law...

Thanks for passing along this tidbit of news...I appreciate the irony of it too...

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Response to SWBTATTReg (Reply #3)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 04:02 PM

25. yeah, wait until interest rates rise.....

and all of those variable rate home interest loans also go up.

A double whammy. Trumps new fed chairman wants rates to rise. It's good for lenders. Borrowers, not so much.....

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Response to Mr. Ected (Original post)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 02:33 PM

6. The many many millions of GOP voters in blue states who will pay WAY more now in taxes

will scream, but it wont matter

They will find out that who matters is a few thousand rich people and nobody else.

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Response to Mr. Ected (Original post)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 02:38 PM

7. I think most people will look at it that they can borrow say $50K and the value of the loss in

deductions will be less than $70/month. That is definitely a deterrent to borrowing, but not so large to stop a lot of folks who are seeing their home equity increase pretty rapidly. To the extent it's a deterrent, that might be a good thing for some folks.

People didn't stop using credit cards when interest was made non-deductible around 1986 or so.

But the fact this "banker" didn't even know that . . . . . . .

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #7)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 02:50 PM

8. Interesting Point

The Tax Reform of 1986 also eliminated the interest deduction for student loan debt. It didn't stop me from going to graduate school or using my credit cards. It did make me a Democrat. Those wee little deductions made a difference to me when I was still in an entry level job earning relatively little money.

It proved my grandmother's point too. I would never be rich enough to vote Republican.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #7)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 03:08 PM

12. Except the value of their homes will drop

because the loss of the mortgage deduction will be driving the prices of higher-end homes down. This will probably lead to a downward swing of all homes.

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Response to mainer (Reply #12)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 03:15 PM

15. Not much. Most homes have been increasing at a pretty good clip. Lower priced homes will still

have deductible interest. How many people have a $900,000+ home that are going to panic if the price goes down a percent or two? There is already a cap on $1 Million mortgage loans.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #15)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 03:38 PM

17. Interesting analysis by Newsweek journalist

about the tax bill and effect on home prices. He explains it on twitter:


?lang=en

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Response to mainer (Reply #17)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 03:57 PM

23. The 2 or 3% values of higher priced homes might drop, won't make that much difference.

If I had the money, I could buy a $900,000 home on 1/1/2018, pay 20% down, and still get to deduct all my mortgage interest.

The median priced homes -- around $225,000 -- are a long way from that cap and probably the $10K cap on state taxes. I get there are localities that are high cost, but we are talking mostly about people with much higher incomes.

Fact is, if I took out a mortgage of $850,000, I would lose after taxes only about $1,400 in 2018 because of the interest I could no longer deduct on the $100K above the threshold.

Someone who can afford a house with an $850K mortgage (that's over a $ Million home) can probably absorb that $1,400 and the impact of the state/local tax cap. If they can't, they need to buy a cheaper house, perhaps increasing prices in that range a percent or two.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #23)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 04:06 PM

27. That's not what history teaches. When prices of higher end homes go down, there's a downward

pressure on the market in general and all home prices end up going down.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #27)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 04:10 PM

30. Probably because there is a general economic downturn at the same time.

Somehow, I don't think a $250,000 home is going to be impacted by limiting interest rate deductions for mortgages over $750K.

In fact, one could make an argument the price might go up for lower-priced houses because tapped out people who buy higher priced houses when they can't afford them, get sensible.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #30)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 04:25 PM

38. "Probably." OR people might realize that the original plan was to get rid of ALL mortgage deductions

and nobody should assume their mortgage deduction is safe.

Just wondering. Are you also fine with the deduction for ALL home equity loans being eliminated?

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #23)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 11:01 PM

62. I'm inclined to agree that home prices won't drop that much.

Definitely not in the long run, and probably not in the short run.

I don't know about the rest of the country, but where I live, Santa Fe, when home prices here stagnated, the owners of the pricier homes just didn't even try to sell. They knew they could wait for prices to rebound.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #23)

Fri Dec 29, 2017, 10:14 AM

82. 2nd mortgages This has never only affected higher price home markets

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Response to mainer (Reply #17)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 04:47 PM

44. It's worth reading the rest of his Twitter analysis

(continuing from above tweet)

...6. Flooding a strong economy with $ leads to inflation.

7. Monetary policy must counter that kind of reckless fiscal policy.

8. Fed will increase interest rates to avoid runaway inflation.

9. Higher interest rates make mortgages less affordable

10. Home values drop further

The cycle of home value collapse caused by the 1986 tax bill led to the collapse of the savings and loan industry in 1989. Cost us $500 bill in bailout.

The cycle of home value collapse caused by unregulated Wall Street push of subprime loans led to bank collapses of 2008....
....it doesn't happen immediately. Home prices have to absorb the impact, and people are resistant to dropping prices of an illiquid asset to recognize market changes. But drop they will. It is unavoidable.

Housing crash number 3 is on the way.

...for those saying "It's only for houses more than $750,000."

1. That's 4 million houses.

2. Housing prices is the only place where trickle down is real. The top price falls, the next one down falls and on and on. It is a cascade....

....
3. 1986 bill only went after second homes. Those prices fell, setting off the cascade. S&L industry collapsed. We paid $500 billion bailout.

But it gets worse.....

....
4. The tax bill allows deductibility for only $10,000 of property taxes and sales taxes combined.

5. That affects $500 billion.

6. That $500 bill is ALSO included in home values.

7. Red states, like Texas, rely on property and sales taxes to fund schools.....

...8. So not only will the prices of homes collapse as interest rates go up - and banks fail - but funding of schools will collapse. Not as badly as economy though.

This is what happens when you have a tax bill written without input from economists.

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Response to mainer (Reply #44)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 08:52 PM

57. OMG -- That sounds like a bonafide depression in the making.

 

Whew!

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Response to mainer (Reply #44)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 11:28 PM

64. I dont remember housing prices tanking when the million dollar threshold was set in 1986.

But I guess this time is different.

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Response to mainer (Reply #44)

Fri Dec 29, 2017, 07:09 PM

90. +1

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Response to mainer (Reply #12)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 04:43 PM

43. Standing on line to prepay my school taxes, I got into a discussion with another homeowner.

She is in the process of putting her home on the market and had a discussion with her broker
Evidently, Coldwell-Banker had an emergency meeting yesterday of their regional offices to figure out what to do with this disaster. She didnít get a lot of info but was told that the selling price of her house would have to be lowered substantially. She just recovered from breast cancer and her husband had a cardiac event last week. They canít really move far from this area because they rely on their daughter for supplemental care. So they are in limbo at the moment.
I donít see this being a permanent situation. Too many republicans are affected.

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Response to mainer (Reply #12)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 10:46 PM

59. +1, it doesn't take much to affect house prices

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #7)

Fri Dec 29, 2017, 04:21 AM

72. I usually agree with you on most things, but you need a reality check man

I'm in one of the most unaffordable places in the country.

Housing is so expensive here that the tax deduction is often the difference between getting a place, and that may not be a house, but a tiny condo, even for a family.

Here is what you're glossing over:

First, the loss of deductibility increases the cost of housing for those who have housing and for those who want to buy. PERIOD. Especially because the hit is the loss of the State Income tax deduction combined with limiting the property tax deduction, not to mention making the median home here beyond the deductibility limit. The MEDIAN home.

Second, there are TWO possibilities here, in BOTH cases, the net costs go up even if prices go down.

1) People are screwed because the after-tax cost of housing just got more unaffordable because simply, it costs more of our net income, whether we currently have a place or are trying to get one.

2) People are screwed because the prices have gone down, therefore, they have lost equity, but are still paying the same mortgage, but out of pocket costs have gone up due to loss of deductibility.

You probably will argue supply and demand and I'll tell you that even during the great recession, there weren't a lot of properties to buy because, guess what, those of us who were underwater, lots of us, couldn't sell to cover our mortgages so there wasn't much inventory.

So you drop the prices but you literally see little benefit from doing so, because the net cost of housing goes up for owners and buyers compared to before, even if the prices drop.


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Response to Mr. Ected (Original post)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 02:56 PM

9. No sense letting this ad campaign go to waste

My guess is they'll just lie to their customers who ask about the interest deduction, and they won't volunteer the information to those who don't.

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Response to Mr. Ected (Original post)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 03:01 PM

10. What many fail to realize is that

the repugs who passed this piece of shit will still find a way to blame the democrats. And their base is too farking stupid to NOT believe it.

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Response to Ferrets are Cool (Reply #10)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 03:12 PM

14. I know...DEMS just dont know how to set the narrative.

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Response to Ferrets are Cool (Reply #10)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 03:17 PM

16. Dems don't get heard in Rural Georgia

Because the only radio is RW Hate Radio, or sports, or preachers, or C and W music. I've driven through there many times and the only 'news' you get has RW talk shows running constantly.
And of course anyone watching TV likely has Fox on. With rare exceptions, of course. And even the other MSM stations don't talk about how bad the new tax scam is.

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Response to n2doc (Reply #16)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 05:22 PM

53. I live in Mobile AL. I live your pain. nm

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Response to Ferrets are Cool (Reply #10)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 05:15 PM

49. As an example - EVERY conservative in the country believes the 2008 crash was caused by ...

Fannie and Freddie ...

Not because people wildly over bought houses, overleveraged to buy second, third homes, got into all the "products" that the lending community pushed like variable rates, were allowed to let people over extend themselves ... Not the big banks packaging all of these upside down properties into toxic packages and purchasing insurance to cover the loses ...

Nah, none of that.

To these imbeciles loans to people to buy $95,000 starter homes crashed the entire economy because ... Rush, et all told them.

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Response to Cosmocat (Reply #49)

Fri Dec 29, 2017, 01:39 PM

89. And they've never heard of

Credit Default Swaps and Collateralized Debt Obligations. They have no clue what AIG did or how the WS banks gambled. The explanation they've been fed is that Jimmy Carter encouraged banks to loan to blacks and that's what began the whole problem.

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Response to Ferrets are Cool (Reply #10)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 11:30 PM

65. Yes. That banker seems to have his head up his butt.

He will likely believe anything Fox News, Trump, Lying Ryan, Mitch The Turtle and the Georgia GOP tell him.

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Response to Mr. Ected (Original post)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 03:11 PM

13. Oops!

Guess he didn't get a chance to read the bill either.

Of course, neither did any of the House or Senate Democrats, so that's kind of fitting.

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Response to hatrack (Reply #13)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 03:42 PM

19. Ahem, you forgot to mention

 

that Republicans didn't read the bill either, since they certainly didn't write it, they just voted for it.

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Response to watoos (Reply #19)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 03:53 PM

20. they trusted

their leaders (big mistake)... the info coming from Republicans to constituents (e. g. Susan Collins) is not an untruth but very misleading and not telling the entire resulting effects of a bad bill...

I am disgusted and saddened by all that is happening

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Response to Mr. Ected (Original post)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 03:56 PM

21. Many won't realize until tax time in 2019, after 2018 elections

Friend of mine who itemizes (due to mortgage interest, medical costs, state taxes and prop taxes etc) and has difficulty making ends meet just finalized a home equity loan and line of credit that will no longer benefit her tax-wise and unfortunately having that line of credit available has encouraged her to impulsively spend more freely than she had been doing using credit cards. The banks/credit unions often charge fees or require costly appraisals for these home equity loans too.

My understanding is that home equity loan interest will only be deductible if the loan is for home improvements on primary residence.

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Response to Mr. Ected (Original post)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 03:57 PM

22. I wonder when they'll realize that their good buddy gopers shoved

the tax bill through this fast up their asses so that they wouldn't be able to argue against it.

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Response to Mr. Ected (Original post)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 03:58 PM

24. Obama will get the blame.

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Response to kairos12 (Reply #24)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 04:07 PM

28. Now that's a non-debatable fact.

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Response to kairos12 (Reply #24)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 10:53 PM

60. +1

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Response to Mr. Ected (Original post)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 04:17 PM

33. Nothing So Delicious!

Nothing so delicious as watching IGNORANCE hoist on its own petard!

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Response to Mr. Ected (Original post)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 04:19 PM

35. How is anyone in that business unaware of those changes in the tax law?

This guy's stupidity is overwhelming.

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Reply #35)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 04:23 PM

37. I would surmise that Rush hasn't elaborated on this particular point

And FOX News probably buried the lede as well.

Remember, these folks only get their news from "credible, non-fake" sources.

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Response to Mr. Ected (Reply #37)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 05:17 PM

50. THIS

they only know what is in their safe, hate-filled bubble ...

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Response to Mr. Ected (Original post)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 04:20 PM

36. I think most of us would be more or less ok if the shitty tax bill were the end of it, but it's not.

The true end game for these thieving cons is to take all our money from Social Security & Medicare, gut Medicaid so it doesn't cover nursing home care and has hard caps so they don't have to pay for major illnesses and injuries. Then they will end mandatory education and public education, gut health care to the bone, end child labor laws and only the rich can vote. Oh yeah, abortion and birth control will also be outlawed. This is the true end game these oligarchs want, destruction of our way of life so they have all the power and money and we have no option but to be their virtual slaves.

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Response to Mr. Ected (Original post)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 04:30 PM

39. 'Conversing with the Board' indeed,

as their liability could be significant for mis-informing clients who rely on their bad advice.

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Response to elleng (Reply #39)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 05:27 PM

55. Oooooooohhhh

but that's where getting rid of regulations comes in. No watchdog on the bankers = lie, cheat, and steal from their clients with impunity.

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Response to Mr. Ected (Original post)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 05:06 PM

46. I had not heard that, either. Only about the limit on the property tax deduction. nt

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #46)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 11:42 PM

66. I thought that it was $10,000 limit for everything.

Property Tax, State Income Tax, Home Mortage Interest, Local Tax if any. $10,000 limit for the total of the group.

Some states work state taxes differently than others, some do a percentage of federal while others do percentage against income. I don't know whether Georgia taxes income, I live in Florida. Some people will be ok with the $10,000 max if they don't earn much income, have a modest home, no local taxes and state income tax of 8% or less on income. Most two income families will probably get hurt.

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #66)

Fri Dec 29, 2017, 12:23 AM

69. I just checked. You are correctomundo.

But actually, we never have been able to claim both sales (local) taxes AND property taxes. It is currently one or the other, take your pick.

So a $10k limit still lets most working class and middle class claim their property tax (or sales tax) deduction and state income tax, IF they don't live in a high tax state.

I wonder if this phases out to not being able to deduct it at all?

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #69)

Fri Dec 29, 2017, 05:17 AM

73. Eh?

 



Itís sales tax or state/local income tax. Property tax is in addition to either of those.

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Response to OnyxSharpie (Reply #73)

Fri Dec 29, 2017, 07:33 AM

75. Oh, pardon me. I just moved...

so not used to the state income tax thing. Yes, that's what it is, per that form (and per Turbotax, which is an AWESOME service).

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Response to Mr. Ected (Original post)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 05:13 PM

47. This makes me feel good.

I think a lot of right wingers like this banker simply vote R because they always have done. To them, as to many Americans, if we simply keep our fingers crossed, we can 'trust' that the US Congress and Executive Branch will do stuff that is beneficial.

We've always known what the GOP REALLY stands for, but now the reality of this shit law will help many, many other voters realize this, too. If we actually have elections in 2018, the GOP is gonna get pasted.

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Response to Mr. Ected (Original post)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 05:15 PM

48. No fun to get suckered by republican Comrade Casio*

As many millions of decent people can attest.

* aka republican Draft-Dodger-in-Chief

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Response to Mr. Ected (Original post)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 05:21 PM

52. we are trickled down on

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Response to Mr. Ected (Original post)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 05:25 PM

54. This is what happens when they get information outside of Fox News. n/t

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Response to Mr. Ected (Original post)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 05:36 PM

56. Uh oh, it looks like it's time to start demonizing black athletes and women seeking abortions again.

And maybe add in some scare tactics about the LGBTQ community just in case period aren't 100% distracted!

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Response to Mr. Ected (Original post)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 10:41 PM

58. I live in GA and work with the same idiots who voted for Trump and the GOP

because Mush Limpballs and Fux and friends told them to. They have no brains of their own.

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Response to Mr. Ected (Original post)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 10:59 PM

61. Tell everyone so that the bad news rushes down in a torrent in time for 2018 elections.


Get the CON artists out.

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Response to Mr. Ected (Original post)

Thu Dec 28, 2017, 11:58 PM

67. I know right? A guilty pleasure lately is

reading all the regret tweets on Twitter. So many selfish *ucks voted for him, thinking they'd get their taxes cut, etc., only to find that they're actually worse off now. And on top of that, there's still no wall. And there's still diversity and, yes, immigrants. Karma's a bitch.

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Response to Mr. Ected (Original post)

Fri Dec 29, 2017, 01:09 AM

70. A lot of middle class folks who itemize deductions may be in for an unpleasant surprise when 2018

taxes roll around and they find out that personal exemptions have been eliminated, limits on deductions for state income tax + property tax, and interest on home equity loans have been eliminated.

Going to also be interesting if this will have an effect on charitable contributions


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Response to still_one (Reply #70)

Fri Dec 29, 2017, 07:54 AM

78. I think losing the personal exemption will be the thing people

notice most. It's around 4k/person and directly lowers taxable income. For a single filer, doubling the standard deduction means an extra 6k, so single filers are only getting a 2k reduction in their taxable income. If you have a multi-person household or can claim an extra exemption (age, blindness, etc), you could end up having more taxable income than now.



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Response to DeminPennswoods (Reply #78)

Fri Dec 29, 2017, 09:12 AM

81. Exactly, it is above the line. The other problem is that these supposed tax cuts expire in 8 years

and in that time when the deficit has ballooned out of control, and many of the republicans in congress who created this will be out of office at that time, fingers will start pointing who to blame for the deficit and what social programs to cut

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Response to Mr. Ected (Original post)

Fri Dec 29, 2017, 07:51 AM

76. All of these screw jobs need to be talked-up in 2018 so that every man, woman and child

knows we are providing and supporting welfare for the wealthiest people and corporations in America. There is NO TAX CUT for the masses, but actually a net tax increase for many or most.

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Response to Mr. Ected (Original post)

Fri Dec 29, 2017, 07:55 AM

79. GOPers should read legislation

that will have an impact on their business rather than just listen to Fox News. This is just lazy!

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Response to Mr. Ected (Original post)

Fri Dec 29, 2017, 12:37 PM

86. i was at a business networking function where a cpa gave a presentation with the truth per tax bill

mostly small business owners
mostly gop

they were shocked....
like finding out youre adopted shocked

one attorney in particular was just dumbstruck.
wish i had my camera

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Response to Mr. Ected (Original post)

Fri Dec 29, 2017, 01:21 PM

88. And thats deduction that helps middle class homeowners.

 

I doubt high income families use HELOCs very much

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