So I click on a Yahoo article about Best Cities to Retire in, and -- WTF?

[HiPointDem]

Today's younger workers will likely be stuck in the 9-to-5 grind well into their 70s...

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/the-best-u-s--cities-for-retiring-on--100-a-day-20120720.html


Current Social Security retirement age for those born after 1960 = 67. Most workers retire earlier.

In what world will most workers retire "well into their 70s" -- which I would take to mean around 75?

What stunned me most was the confident knowing voice, as if it had already been settled.

[Sherman A1]

1. Well,

in more than a few cases those "retirements" were forced by the recent economic downturn. People who had lost their jobs and had no prospect of getting another simply retired & started to find whatever income stream was available and that may very well be their Social Security if their ages were appropriate.

I look over those Yahoo articles from time to time and find them to be simply poor journalism at best and usually simply nonsense.

[Live and Learn]

2. Yahoo generally posts news articles from accepted news organizations

they don't write them themselves. I agree that the quality of journalism in general has gone down, probably in relation to the pay and education received, just as the Murdoch agenda intended.

[pnwmom]

3. Maybe they're being realistic, based on the situation of today's near-retirees.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/22/opinion/sunday/our-ridiculous-approach-to-retirement.html?src=me&ref=general

Seventy-five percent of Americans nearing retirement age in 2010 had less than $30,000 in their retirement accounts. The specter of downward mobility in retirement is a looming reality for both middle- and higher-income workers. Almost half of middle-class workers, 49 percent, will be poor or near poor in retirement, living on a food budget of about $5 a day.

[HiPointDem]

4. they said *young* workers. and there's nothing special about the situation of near-retirees.

Only a fortunate minority of Americans have significant sources of retirement income other than Social Security. Social Security made up 50 percent or more of the retirement income of 66 percent of Americans age 65 and older in 2009, up from 64 percent in 2008. And more than a third of retirees (35 percent) receive 90 percent or more of their income as a monthly payment from the Social Security Administration.

http://money.usnews.com/money/retirement/articles/2011/08/30/retirees-increasingly-depending-on-social-security

Most people don't make enough income in their lifetime to accumulate significant retirement savings given the twists & turns of life.

[pnwmom]

5. Which is why most people, to maintain their living standard, would have to work

beyond what has been considered retirement age.

Also, a worker who can delay receiving Social Security till age 70 will receive a substantially higher payment.

[HiPointDem]

6. most people do *not* work beyond what is considered normal retirement age. most people

retire *before* normal retirement age, for various reasons. and there's no reason that young workers should have to work into their seventies.

[jp11]

13. B-b-but

"people live longer" so they should be forced to continue to work longer.

Plus it is a great way to saddle younger generations with a tougher time while protecting the current and much more active voting block of the retired.

[HiPointDem]

16. protecting? they're protecting their own asses is what they're protecting. they could give a

shit about retired people.

[pnwmom]

33. Then there will be more and more older people living in poverty.

Unless, of course, the retirement system gets changed.

[HiPointDem]

43. changing the retirement system is what's driving them into poverty.

[pnwmom]

44. It would have to be changed in the other direction, obviously.

Or do you have some wonderful, magic solution?

[HiPointDem]

45. yes, stop the thieves.

[JDPriestly]

7. It is possible that once the Baby Boomers have retired and the younger generations that are

comparatively smaller are fully in the workforce, there will be enough work to keep people employed until they are 70.

Unless there are major medical discoveries that deal with things that slow us down as we age -- memory impairment, arthritis, diabetes, heart disease, cancer, hip & knee surgeries -- and on and on, it is unlikely that employers will want very many older people on their staffs.

Retirement is not a matter of just stopping to have a good time. People are retired out of their work because they either are not needed or wanted or because they no longer have the physical or mental capacity to keep up the pace that employers demand.

We do remain healthy a little longer than in the past -- but the slowing of the aging process will itself slow and end eventually.

Think about Chris Hedges and Christopher Hitchens -- two men one younger than 70 the other just a little over 70 and yet both died recently.

Working at 75 is possible for some but pushing it for many.

[barbtries]

9. Chris Hedges is alive

born in 1956.

[JDPriestly]

29. Sorry. That is a terrible mistake. I have been corrected.

It is Alexander Cockburn who died at a relatively early age.

[HiPointDem]

11. I think you mean alex cockburn (b. 1941 = 71) rather than chris hedges.

[DiverDave]

27. He passed away the other day

I just found him too, dang it...

[JDPriestly]

28. Yes. My sincere apologies to Chris Hedges.

[Live and Learn]

12. Ditto on the Chris Hedges statement.

For now, not only does age discrimination but physical demands of many jobs make the over 70 an impossibility.

But dwell on this, I read, fairly recently, that scientists think that living to 1000 may be possible in the not too distant future. I personally can't imagine working for over 900 years.

[Skittles]

8. 9-5?

I don't know ANYONE who works those hours

[Live and Learn]

10. So very true. It was a slippery slope.

And we are only midway through it.

[Live and Learn]

14. Yep, the working past 70 meme is disheartening but

what about the "on a $100 a day"? How many people in the future that retire will be able to afford $100 a day?

[HiPointDem]

15. $100 in 2060 dollars....

[Live and Learn]

18. But the article is using prices as of today.

And who the heck knows what the prices of tomorrow will be?

[HiPointDem]

19. i was being sarcastic. i agree with you.

[RebelOne]

32. Well, figure in mortgage or rent, utilities, insurance (car and home), Internet, phone and food

and it could well add up to $100 a day. Since I was forced into retirement at 71 in 2010, I am living on Social Security, and I am trying to think of ways to cut down on some of my expenses.

[Live and Learn]

40. Oh, I realize it is easy to spend $100 a day just

don't think a lot of us will have that much to spend. As bad as it is now, it looks even bleaker for future generations.

[Marrah_G]

17. I will most likely be working until I am dead

Savings? Retirement accounts? Investments? These are all things that don't exist in my world.

[HiPointDem]

21. unfortunately, "jobs" are something that also doesn't exist in some people's worlds. however,

if you've worked, social security is still something that should exist in your world.

[RebelOne]

31. I thought I would be working until I died,

but I was forced into retirement in 2010 at 71. My company downsized and eliminated my position. Fortunately, I have no credit cards and my car, though old now, is paid. I only had a few thousand dollars in a 401K, which I cashed in and put it into my savings account because every time I got a statement, the balance was down a few hundred dollars. So I cashed it in while I still had something left.

But I do have my social security and I guess I can survive on that. It is not going to be easy because I was also used to getting a salary.

[Marrah_G]

46. Yikes!

Hope everything works out for you. That's going to be a big change. Try to get all the extra help you can, like heating assistance and food stamps/medicaid if you qualify.

[Vinca]

20. What is this "retirement" you speak of?

[HiPointDem]

22. only 16% of people over 65 are employed.

[Vinca]

23. Employed "on the books" you mean.

I sell antiques and collectibles and go to yard sales every weekend. It used to be just a few older collectors going around to the sales, but now it's the norm to see lots and lots of seniors buying up things they can resell. Ebay, flea markets, resale directly to antique shops for cash. 16% is a very low number.

[HiPointDem]

24. if they're selling on ebay, it's on the books. resale to antique shops is on the books too unless

the shop is small fry or shady.

how much money do you think most people make selling used stuff on ebay?

i looked at vendors on etsy and most seem to be making maybe 6 sales a year.

the same is true of most 'under the table' work seniors can do. odd jobs are not "employed".

[Vinca]

25. I guess we travel in different worlds.

I hear people bragging about the $400 they made at the flea market. They don't report that. Child care - not reported. Lawn mowing, sewing, wedding cakes . . . there are many things that can be done to earn money "under the table." And good for them I say. If the fat cats are going to hide their money from taxation, the "little people" have to do what they need to do to make ends meet.

[HiPointDem]

35. yes, i know people who do such things too. but i know no one who can support themselves on it.

for those over 65 it's a supplement to SS, not a main source of income.

and as i said -- if you sell on-line, you're on the books.

[Vinca]

47. Of course it's a supplement to their income.

Just like greeting at Walmart and working weekends at the bakery is a supplement. Was your original point that there is 16% working full time and not taking Social Security yet? If that was the point, then you're probably right. As for online income being reportable, it's all "reportable." I'm honest to a fault about it, but I know one dealer who never reported anything and he has just landed with a giant thud in his old age to discover no Social Security and no Medicare. Back in the 1980's I remember being made aware of an artist who had applied for a mortgage and couldn't get it because he hadn't reported his income. It happens.

[HiPointDem]

48. no, my original point was only 15% *work*. part-time, full-time, on or off SS -- if they are

working for a legitimate employer, they're in the 15%.

[mnhtnbb]

30. My neighbor sells on etsy--mid century modern stuff--she's a working architect

9-5 M-F and she spends a LOT of time nights/weekends running
her etsy business. She is always carrying out packages to be mailed
when I see her in the morning going off to work.

She longs for the day she can quit her 'day' job and just run her etsy
business.

On edit: oh, and she often haunts thrift stores on her lunch hour
or stops at thrift shops when she has to make a field visit for
a building project. Every weekend she's gone to a tag sale,
flea market, whatever where she's among the first ten people
in line and comes back with great finds that she marks up--a LOT--
and sells on etsy.

[HiPointDem]

34. I'm not saying there aren't people who don't do well on etsy. I'm saying most people don't

make much -- at least in the categories i looked at.

[Vinca]

51. It sounds like she's got the treasure hunting "bug."

I've discovered it's incurable. LOL. Just this morning I dragged home a gorgeous, antique, copper bucket. I can't help myself.

[2pooped2pop]

26. don't worry

without proper health care we will never live to be 75.

It's the republican plan.

[ieoeja]

36. We need more people to work longer because technology lets fewer people do more work.

Wait? Something does not compute.

[HiPointDem]

37. indeed.

[Live and Learn]

41. Yep. And fewer jobs available means we need to work longer

while the younger generations do what?

[woo me with science]

38. I'm sure it already has.

...at least in the minds of those who are currently running our government and media.


People are waking up. Let's make sure they are in for a surprise.

[Egalitarian Thug]

39. Yes, this has already been decreed by the people that matter. If we meekly accept it, we deserve it.

[Alduin]

42. I wish we had the European view when it comes to work.

We're not allowed to enjoy time off in this country.

It's unfortunate.

[Yavin4]

49. We Need to Tax Consumption And Encourage Savings

Our retirement problems, much like all of our other economic problems, are due to our economy being out of balance. We favor consumption over everything else. Plain vanilla savings accounts and CDs are taxed on a federal level, but flat screen TVs are not. This encourages consumption over savings as well as outsourcing jobs overseas.

[HiPointDem]

50. we need to tax the people who have most of the money.

[Yavin4]

53. But That Won't Solve Our Most Pressing Economic Problems

We need to encourage a better balance between consumption and production, and we need to encourage people to save. What makes someone not poor is not having a job, rather it's having real, tangible assets.

[HiPointDem]

54. The top 5% do 37% of all consumer spending, about what the bottom 80% does. Taxing the

bottom is not "encouraging" them to do diddly, it's reducing their income and standard of living.

"Encouraging" would be something like offering higher interest rates for savings. Why should people "save" when doing so is a money-loser?

[Yavin4]

55. That's My Whole Point

A national VAT tax is the best way to tax the rich because they won't be able to dodge it like Romney currently does.

If we allow exemptions for food, housing, clothing, and healthcare, then the VAT tax would do very little to reduce the income of the bottom 80%. Additionally, revenues from the VAT would go to social, infrastructure, educational, and pension programs which would in fact be a net income gain for the bottom 80%.

Moreover, we could impose a higher VAT tax on imported goods from countries that erect barriers to our goods. This would encourage higher domestic production, and that would create jobs.

As for savings, we need to subsidize savings accounts for the very poor. If they save a certain percentage, then they would also receive a yearly government subsidy until their savings reach a certain level.

Finally, we love to point out the social safety nets of Europe, but we don't like to talk about how they pay for them. They pay for them with a VAT tax.

[HiPointDem]

56. they can dodge it way more easily than the 80% on the bottom whom you'd also be taxing could.

Europe has been cutting back on its safety net even as it increased its reliance on VAT.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

52. They always do this: Gross after-tax income: $25k +

Last edited Tue Jul 24, 2012, 02:04 PM - Edit history (1)

As if that's minimum wage or what Social Security pays. Minimum wage is $15k. Social Security Disability in some states is capped at 12k.

We just saw a post recently where someone got a ten cent an hour raise.