General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsTrying to get my Bernie or die nephew to stop trashing HRC.
Last night he posted to Facebook an article on the reopening of the Clinton Foundation with the caption "Good". He hates her more now than last year. He joined an anti fascist group for a while in the fall, but discovered they were more violence prone than first advertised.
I dove in with articles and a Frum tweet...
Link to tweet
?s=09
After trying to impress on him that the GOP is in the grip of Russian oligarchs, he continues to accuse HRC of undermining minimum wage in Haiti after the earthquake, and other votes for WS interests when a Senator, as well as other relatively minor grievances that go on in hardball politics. He is being brainwashed. I am the one who advised he get involved with groups after the election. I gather the ones that impressed him are extremely anti-Clinton, and not what I hoped would be Democratic advocates.
He is still harping on this well in to today.
csziggy
(34,137 posts)Targeted Bernie supporters with anti-HRC propaganda. Maybe if you can show him that kind of info he will realize he was played just as much as the pro-Trumpsters were.
SleeplessinSoCal
(9,145 posts)A year ago I was helping him get engaged when he waz so down. This HRC stuff all happened very recently. I will ask my brother, his dad, but doubt that he understands. Seems to be a pattern for some Bernie supporters though.
I watched Michelle Wolf, Bill Burr And Dave Chappelle's recent comedy specials. They all trashed HRC differently. Burr went after her hardest, calling her "the devil". Chappelle was actually the most generous. Wolf just says she doesn't like her. Well, this is our pop culture doing some effective dirty work. And all they're doing is being honest about how they feel. And they all hate trump.
TeamPooka
(24,254 posts)left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)Real or just stirring the pot,
it's time to move on and get over 2016.
We've got primaries and a fall election coming up.
emulatorloo
(44,182 posts)He joined an anti fascist group
Btw TYTs Jimmy Dore just released a Clinton Colluded With Russia screed so lets not pretend that conspiracy-theory minded self-identified progressives dont exist.
Clinton Colluded With Russia To Smear Trump During Election
ornotna
(10,807 posts)Reading and stuff.
emulatorloo
(44,182 posts)Thanks!
ornotna
(10,807 posts)emulatorloo
(44,182 posts)SleeplessinSoCal
(9,145 posts)This is a hard task for me. I even recommended he join DU. Sent him the link and all, but don't think he did.
Maybe I should send him this link....
MichMan
(11,971 posts)left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)emulatorloo
(44,182 posts)plenty of Bernie-or-busters who believe any right-wing CT that is against Democrats.
George II
(67,782 posts)The OP is talking about current interactions with her nephew, has nothing specifically to do with 2016.
SleeplessinSoCal
(9,145 posts)My nephew is smart, but not really cut out for the 21st century economy. He joined an anti-fascist group that was promoting a national day of protest last November 4th. Left when they became more like "ANTI-FA".
I think he was trying to be proactive. But now seems content to merely protest.
Here's the link to this discussion.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10155225660920036&id=501560035
SleeplessinSoCal
(9,145 posts)My nephew tried an environmental group and one that was a local Dem group in San Diego. They weren't doing enough to hold his interest and somehow he has now put me in his enemy camp by insisting I equate HRC with Stein or Trump.
I think DU needed to keep a forum open for these people who have splintered off. We aren't nearly out of the woods yet. So many Democratic voters in the OC are passionate about Bernie, no matter what he says to get them to focus on the issues before them. My nephew is a prime example.
brer cat
(24,605 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)lunamagica
(9,967 posts)sheshe2
(83,898 posts)Real or just stirring the pot,
Your response/ attack is uncalled for.
left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)Time to move on.
2016 is so 'yesterday'.
We've got new battles to fight in 2018.
emulatorloo
(44,182 posts)Once people get hooked on conspiracy theories it is pretty hard to reach them.
SleeplessinSoCal
(9,145 posts)Then he got defensive. I don't want to go down these rabbit holes with him. But I feel a certain responsibility for keeping him engaged on facts that matter. I posted the link to his post.
Can you read this?
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10155225660920036&id=501560035
emulatorloo
(44,182 posts)All my best wishes to both you and your nephew
SleeplessinSoCal
(9,145 posts)Thanks for your input.
melman
(7,681 posts)Shocking.
RandiFan1290
(6,242 posts)redstatebluegirl
(12,265 posts)Grad students. That free tuition thing made them believe anything including HRC as an evil member of "the other".
shanny
(6,709 posts)lunamagica
(9,967 posts)highmindedhavi
(355 posts)shanny
(6,709 posts)if nobody talks about it.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)College: reality.
See the difference?
shanny
(6,709 posts)Free college--common in the civilized world--is "empty talk" and forever out of reach in the richest country in the history of the world.
Live in your reality if you like, you seem to revel in it. Some of us prefer to think a little bigger.
Bye now.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)Burlington College fiasco just LOVE Bernie
marble falls
(57,204 posts)I wonder how those "communists" manage it?
shanny
(6,709 posts)marble falls
(57,204 posts)As was pointed out recently: we can't afford to educate our children, rebuild our infrastructure or provide medical care to our people so what exactly are they "defending"?
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Was the biggest issue. And honestly when you ask them what other issues they care about they grasp at sound bites- why Wall Street? Theyre not sure, but again its aboht more money on their pockets. Theyd be as easily swayed by lower taxes. Not impressed.
LuvLoogie
(7,028 posts)Many of these kids insulate their naivete with, "Bernie would a beat trump." or "Clinton would have been worse."
SleeplessinSoCal
(9,145 posts)That's why I brought this up here. This is new stuff. It scares me.
LuvLoogie
(7,028 posts)inflicting us with trump. Is he old enough to remember how they swift boated Kerry. What they did to Max Cleland?
Does he understand that they have been doing that to Hillary for over 25 years?
SleeplessinSoCal
(9,145 posts)I answered his question equating Stein taking money from Russia, vs HRC record on Wall Street votes. Pointed out there is no comparison when it comes to Putin election interference. He has not responded since.
My last reply:
"No. I believe it was wrong of her to take Putin/oligarch money because they are a murderous and corrupt regime bent on undermining western democracies - hence involvement in Brexit, our election and France's and Germany's among others. We are more gullible. And France's Macron and Merkel are now the future of the Free World."
Response to SleeplessinSoCal (Reply #43)
Name removed Message auto-removed
SleeplessinSoCal
(9,145 posts)My Congressional rep is Rohrabacher. We are more up to date on Putin's actions than most.
Response to SleeplessinSoCal (Reply #69)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Response to SleeplessinSoCal (Reply #32)
David__77 This message was self-deleted by its author.
Nevernose
(13,081 posts)Other than being obnoxious, what difference does your nephews opinion about Hillary matter? Shes not going to jail (because she hasnt done anything illegal), shes not running for office.
Arguing with a liberal family member over the foreign policy paradigm of the retired Secretary of State from a decade ago seems a little silly. Weve all got bigger, oranger fish to fry.
emulatorloo
(44,182 posts)primary.
Cant do quote marks in thread titles, so should read:
Clinton Foundation style CT
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)It's no accident that he's not coming back home decrying Trump. They've got him harping on Hillary instead.
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)SleeplessinSoCal
(9,145 posts)I posted articles and he won't get past my not answering a question equating Stein with HRC.
If he doesn't admit Russia is undermining western democracies to help himself and his oil buddies, I will have to tell him he is being too stubborn for his own good.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)If you won't listen to soft persuasion, hit him in the face with the raw realities of what has happened to the country and world since Trump got elected curtesy of people like him, everything that he claims is important to him has been set back a decade or more.
SleeplessinSoCal
(9,145 posts)I hoped I'd learned enough to be persuasive. He's only recently stumbled into conspiracyville.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Could end up causing lots of people to lose their lives. Time to find out whether he has even a shred of humanity in him.
SleeplessinSoCal
(9,145 posts)His heart is in the right place. He has no drive or direction yet he has an artist's soul. Tricky combo.
betsuni
(25,618 posts)I don't know how old your nephew is (or if he likes to read), but when a relative sent me a book list when I was 20, it really changed my life. Probably a silly idea -- you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. A much better use of time for someone with an artist's soul. I'd start with:
Sartre's "Nausea" (and existentialism in general)
Henry Miller's "Tropic of Cancer"
Knut Hamsun's "Hunger"
Joris Karl Huysmans' "Against the Grain"
Dostoevsky's "Notes from Underground"
Vincent Van Gogh's "Letters to Theo"
Schopenhauer's "Studies in Pessimism"
Flaubert's "Sentimental Education"
The Communist Manifesto
femmedem
(8,207 posts)Glad you are keeping the conversation going.
Sometimes when someone is really upset about something, as he apparently is about whatever he thinks HRC did, you have to listen and listen and listen to them and reflect back so they know you've heard them before they can hear anything you are trying to say. Maybe say something like, "I can understand why raising the minimum wage in Haiti would be important to you. It's important to me, too." Or find something else where you can truthfully say that what he is saying makes sense to you, even if you have to couch it in "I can understand why you'd be angry at HRC if you thought that she..." Maybe you have to go through a fair amount of that before you can get to a discussion about how politicians have to sometimes give up something important in order to get something even more important, and how good people can sometimes vote for something that, on the face of it, seems awful.
It does sound as if his heart is in the right place, even if he has his facts wrong. I hope you can get through to him so that as he matures, he doesn't disengage from politics or forever let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
SleeplessinSoCal
(9,145 posts)I do get frustrated. He is very sweet, yet not very mature. His mother never learned how to drive in Southern California and tends to leech off others. He recognizes her shortcomings, yet seems to have inherited some of them. He knows though and feels bad about it. I wonder if some of the attacks on HRC are because he really thought he could be saved by Bernie's ideas. I know boomers who find themselves in dire straights and were very hopeful for free health care. We need a better understanding of politics and the way our safety net is being destroyed by this crew of monsters. Beating up on each other is a sure way to a dead end.
Sorry for meandering. But thanks again for your suggestions.
jalan48
(13,883 posts)SleeplessinSoCal
(9,145 posts)But he is spouting volumes at this point. Not sure he can see past his own thoughts.
lunasun
(21,646 posts)is high, right now it is all about Russia being a distraction there is nothing there and off course the anti dem stuff also there is a lot of politics going on for primaries in Chicago/Illinois and all I can say is these types only help Rauner by not compromising.
I may add I'm in a blue state and don't converse with trumpets but I have met others with these opinions and they all strike me as hard core with very narrow views . One of them one time was going on about healthcare and how Clinton is against universal health care, and I tried to provide history to the young man about Hillary Clinton and healthcare in the 90s and the backlash that started this demonization
He just cut me off and went on with his talking points about why she does not care about healthcare.
They all seem to parrot the same bs
If you don't want to talk to him much just start talk about Mueller or even more about the Russian investigations they never care about those subjects and will probably move on to something other than politics . Hopefully ..
SleeplessinSoCal
(9,145 posts)The twitterverse may well be our downfall. Mass Brainwashing is so easy,
melman
(7,681 posts)emulatorloo
(44,182 posts)GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)So the right will eventually get him. H will vote for Trump in 20.
SleeplessinSoCal
(9,145 posts)My goal is to keep him engaged and back on track. I'm seeking the best source on info on how to convince him how much worse Stein was than HRC. I'm leaving Bernie out of it.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)betsuni
(25,618 posts)The pro-Russia anti-America propaganda labeled Obama a drone-warmonger and then Hillary as warmonger/Wall Street. But who's president now? Why doesn't the anti-America propaganda warn us against Trump as a warmonger? Why are Republicans invisible and never responsible for anything, why are Democrats the only American political party? Don't they feel silly repeating this stuff as if Hillary is president? And then before the next election the Democrats running for office will be the warmongers. Being trained to bark and drool on command with these CTs, how embarrassing.
SleeplessinSoCal
(9,145 posts)betsuni
(25,618 posts)The G.W. Bush administration was going to put people in camps and so on and when Obama was elected Alex didn't miss a beat, it was the Obama administration that was going to put people in camps and so on. I don't know what he's saying now, though, if he's still doing equal opportunity as far as the CTs are concerned.
SleeplessinSoCal
(9,145 posts)pangaia
(24,324 posts)Watch/listen to this.
It will bring joy.. and some laughter along the way.
brooklynite
(94,727 posts)SleeplessinSoCal
(9,145 posts)But thanks. I will keep it for evidence.
romanic
(2,841 posts)It's his opinion.
SleeplessinSoCal
(9,145 posts)brush
(53,856 posts)Might mention to him Antifa is no joke and they might be the counterbalance to armed deplorables in the streets if trump fires Muellerjust as they were in Charlottesville.
dembotoz
(16,832 posts)Hrc produces that kind of strong reaction in some folks.
She just does.
Find someone u can both support and go from there
samnsara
(17,635 posts)...is a form of mental illness. No matter who they back. Its obsessive. They cant get out of their love hate cycle for some reason. Just glad he's obsessed over a human rather than grab a gun or something violent.
Botany
(70,581 posts)and then take the time and energy you are spending on trying to
save him from himself and russia/fox news/right wing propaganda
and do something for yourself or your community.
Hillary and the Clinton's good works are voluminous and if people
don't want to or will not see that then don't waste your time.
SleeplessinSoCal
(9,145 posts)This is how I rest.