$26,000/year in spending money...for Holmes???

[nanabugg]

I know families for four that live on less and work hard everyday?

[Hassin Bin Sober]

1. Wha? Who did what now?

[onecent]

2. I just heard the same thing on ABC news tonight

He got 26,000 a year for spending

[pnwmom]

51. That's less than he would have been making working for most companies

based on his undergraduate degree.

It wasn't "spending money"; it was the salary graduate students are paid for acting as teaching and research assistants.

[LisaL]

52. He couldn't find a job in a company based on his undergraduate degree.

[pnwmom]

55. Lots of BS's with science and engineering degrees get good jobs,

although not necessarily in their degree fields. They are among the careers with the lowest unemployment rates.

But the point is, graduate students in science and technology earn their stipends, doing their research and teaching. And they make no more than they would if they got a kindergarten teaching job in my city.

[LisaL]

59. It was reported he couldn't, and had to work at McDonalds before graduate school.

[pnwmom]

63. And how long did he try? Anyway, the implication of the OP that he was overpaid

is ridiculous. Graduate students provide lots of cheap labor for their Universities, in both research and teaching, and grad students in science and engineering usually make significantly less than they would in corporate or government labs.

A new kindergarten teacher with a BA in my city makes about the same as he did in graduate school, and no one here acts like teachers are overpaid.

[LisaL]

67. I don't know how long he tried.

I agree that implication of him being overpaid is ridiculous. The University obviously didn't count on him becoming an alleged mass killer.

[lunatica]

3. Where did he get it?

Grad students get fellowships to live on while they're in Grad School and they work as Graduate Student Researchers and Grad student Instructors where they get paid.

[obamanut2012]

13. That's what it was -- a training stipend

[Recovered Repug]

4. He got a grant from the National Institute of Health.

[nanabugg]

8. Please, you don't really want me to explain the NIH grant system...you really don't want to know.

It ain't pretty!

[Recovered Repug]

10. I'm not really sure what you mean.

I just simply stated a fact - the grant he received was from the NIH.

[Fawke Em]

22. He was only one of five people in the country to get this.

Proves he was smart and nothing else.

[JDPriestly]

34. Proves that we lost a great mind with whatever it was that went wrong with him.

This is absolutely tragic.

[Fawke Em]

40. Oh, I agree!

I saw his science conference video and am trying to figure how he went from shaky-sweet, but absolutely brilliant to dying his hair in a circus afro and point-blank killing 12 innocent people.

Something absolutely went wrong. It's, as you said, tragic.

[Posteritatis]

41. Yep. (nt)

[LisaL]

42. That is not accurate.

He was one out of six in his neuroscience program to get this.

[girl gone mad]

5. What, now we're going to go after scientific grants?

Do you have any idea how much work is involved in securing these grants?

[obamanut2012]

15. +1

I have a friend who had these while he got his Ph.D. in some kind of molecular science I can't really "get." They aren't easy to get, and grad students don;t tend to get other grants, loans, etc.

[Posteritatis]

29. Looks like. Keep expecting to see dolts claiming grad fellowships = the 1%. (nt)

[LisaL]

46. He didn't secure it personally. The neuroscience program secured it.

Then gave it to the students that were accepted into it.

[lpbk2713]

6. A lot more than I receive from Social Security.

No wonder I can't afford assault weapons or body armor.

[JDPriestly]

33. For most graduate students, attending school is a full-time job.

[RebelOne]

45. Same here. I only receive $14,000 a year

and it ain't easy living on that. I would really like to buy a gun for self protection though as I am a single woman living alone.

[datasuspect]

87. if you were a neuroscience genius

they'd probably give you more.

[HiPointDem]

7. did that "spending" include paying his rent, tuition, books, food, etc?

[obamanut2012]

16. It did for my friend who had an NIH grant

It was his salary, basically. The lab also worked his ass off.

There is absolutely no reason for DUers (not you) or the media to go after grad school grants.

[pnwmom]

75. +1. n/t

[lunasun]

84. +2

[4th law of robotics]

9. I'd be curious what that covered

if he still had to pay tuition, fees, health care costs, etc it isn't that much.

[obamanut2012]

12. It's a salary

I strongly suspect he had to pay rent, etc. out of that.

A friend had the same type stipend while he was in grad school. He didn't really pay tuition, because his "school work" was what he did in the lab, and he had to write a dissertation. But, the stipend had to pay fees, rent, health care, car insurance, food, etc.from it.

This is nothing abnormal in certain science and health science fields. We English Majors never got perks like that!

[4th law of robotics]

14. I had a salary/stipend in grad school

they still took out fees from it.

Plus parking, a good chunk for health/dental/eye care as well as life insurance and of course we were expected to pay for our own books and other materials.

It didn't add up to a lot.

[obamanut2012]

17. Right, all of that

I meant, my friend had some type of scholarship that paid most of his tuition, but he still had all the other fees and school expenses to pay, plus his living expenses, so he ate a lot of PB & J and Ramen.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

37. It depends on the grant program...

They all have some permutations, but typically a stipend is to pay the student's living expenses. The grant will also pay for tuition and fees, but those are paid directly to the institution. The student is not necessarily required to work in a lab, but since the support is for graduate studies and this was the NIH, then one could reasonably assume that he was spending a lot of quality time in the lab.

[4th law of robotics]

71. I suppose it's different for each program

Either way it probably amounts to a comfortable sum for a single person in reasonable health living modestly and with minor debts (that have to be paid off at this moment).

Not luxurious. But not starving.

[JVS]

61. In my experience

Grad programs (not to be confused with law school, med school, and business school which are technically professional schools) work as follows.

Most programs only admit students that they can afford to fund for several years, although occasionally a student is admited without funding and has to pay their way. Funding is usually done through teaching or research assistantships. Most of the un-funded students I've encountered have been from China and funded by their government. I've also seen a few members of the military who remained in active duty while following orders to obtain masters degrees in certain fields. Their tuition was paid by the army and they received no stipend, living instead from their much higher salaries as officers. The typical RA/TA makes about $15k per year plus free tuition but might have a few hundred dollars in insurance and registration fees per semester. Better stipends can be earned by trying to get more teaching or research duties or applying for fellowships (both within and outside of the university), which provide a salary plus tuition waiver without any teaching or lab duties.

[obamanut2012]

11. He had an educational/training grant -- nothing unusual

For grad students in programs like he was in. It's basically a salary, because they work them pretty hard, and they do a lot of scut work for labs and other research institutes. A friend had a similar stipend while he got his Ph.D. in something similar.

His was less, because it was about 15 years ago.

[gregoire]

18. I'm beginning to think...

that having large amount of disposable income is what causes a lot of the crime in this country. When you have people that can afford to get into mischief, they will.

[Fawke Em]

23. $26,000 whilst paying for school is "disposable income?"

Hmmm....

I guess the millions we pay athletes is OK.

Just don't pay those smart students anything!! They don't bring in thousands on Saturday!

I'm not, again, defending him, but, as the parent of a VERY smart son, I HOPE he gets a stipend like that!

[Posteritatis]

26. Graduate stipends are not "disposable income." (nt)

[LisaL]

43. This, by no means is a large amount of disposble income.

Barely enough to live on.

[BeyondGeography]

47. Because the propensity to commit violent crime and healthy incomes go hand in hand

Wait...

(How is it that you're still here?)

[uppityperson]

56. Seriously

I was expecting him/her to be gone by now.

[Retrograde]

57. Don't typical grad stipends cover luxuries like housing

food, utilities, transportation?

[LisaL]

62. Just like a salary, he could spend it on living expenses.

[pnwmom]

77. Yeah, luxuries like those. nt

[pnwmom]

76. You mean, pay equivalent to a kindergarten teacher's? It will be news to many

that a salary of $26K is considered to be a large amount of disposable income.

[mike_c]

19. if you're suggesting that grad students don't "work hard every day..."

...then it's obvious you don't have a clue what you're talking about. That was a grant, it paid him a stipend, which is customary, especially in the sciences. It is a very full time job for most students, particularly those with ambitions.

[gkhouston]

30. And it's typically a fraction of what that student would be paid if they dropped out and

took a job in industry. I've heard it characterized as a system of mutual exploitation -- senior researchers (i.e., thesis advisors) get cheap labor, while the students get experience and the degree.

[lunasun]

85. And you need to have the ability to complete the work.....................

[lib2DaBone]

20. I was wondering how he afforded all that expensive Ammo and guns?

6000 rounds of .223, an AR-15, Body Armor.. you are talking some bucks here.

I just assumed his CIA handlers were feeding him....

[Posteritatis]

25. If I wanted to make that kind of purchase I could probably burn off a few credit cards

Especially if I wasn't worried about being around to pay the bills afterwards.

Student credit cards make it very easy to pick up those kinds of debts.

[zappaman]

27. "I just assumed his CIA handlers were feeding him...."

Um....yeah....

[Recovered Repug]

35. No kidding.

Everyone knows it was the FBI.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

39. You have to remember something

The whole kit the guy had could be purchased for about $10,000. Granted, he would have to have been eating ramen noodles for months on end, and maybe his family was inadvertently supporting his gun-buying habit. But the sad truth is, a LOT of people out there would purchase this kind of gear for not a lot of money.

[gregoire]

49. First I've heard CIA mentioned.

Everyone else keeps coming-up with good evidence that it was the FBI.

[lib2DaBone]

72. No, FBI not sophisticated enough.

Compare to Harris and Klebold, the Columbine shooters. Look at Timothy McVeigh, Lee Harvey Oswald... the VIrginia Tech Shooter, The Korean College Shooter.... all Manchurian Candidates.

I could go into definitive examples here, but it would be called "tin foil" theory.. even though it is fact.

So move on folks.. nothing to see here... go back to sleep.. everything is fine.


Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold caught on the high school's security cameras in the cafeteria shortly before committing suicide. Both students worked for an older man in a pizza parlor who was a retired CIA operative who took them under his wing and "counseled" them.

[JVS]

21. zOMG a grad student being paid money to live on while studying

The horror, the horror!

[Posteritatis]

24. Holy crap! A doctoral student in a science program got funding!

Why are people flipping out so much about this? That's not a huge sum for someone in that kind of program, and the idiocy about it being "spending money" isn't worth the effort to refute.

[pipoman]

28. It's an assault scholarship!!1!OMG

An assault scholarship ban!!1!! One should have to have an upper GI, a colonoscopy, a tonsillectomy, AND a follicle test before we let it walk out the store..

[JDPriestly]

31. No doubt a lot of that money went to pay his tuition.

And he may have suffered a break, a psychotic break after he received the money. May have exhibited unusual behavior earlier, but not great enough to draw a lot of attention.

You never know who will become mentally ill. He is in a susceptible age group I have been told.

But, I doubt that the $26,000 was just for spending money. It's possible. But if that was for his living expenses then he was a really, really outstanding student. They don't just give away money to scientists without a lot of reason. He would have been expected to assist professors with research, possibly even teaching, I expect.

[LisaL]

44. I am not sure he had to pay tuition.

A lot of graduate students in sciences don't pay tuition.

[pnwmom]

54. $26,000 is significantly less than they would get in an ordinary job

based on their undergraduate degree alone. This is what they're paid for their teaching and/or research assistant jobs.

[LisaL]

60. I bet he was getting less working at McDonalds.

[pnwmom]

65. So??? One of the reasons people go to college is to make more money

than they could at McDonalds.

[muriel_volestrangler]

32. It's below the median wage

http://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/central.html

$26,363.55 in 2010.

[gkhouston]

38. I worked before grad school.

As a doctoral student, I got a tuition waiver and received a stipend which was less than a third of what I'd been making just two years out of college. My first job after graduation paid four times my stipend; two years after that I was making six times my stipend.

[pnwmom]

78. Your experience is typical of grad students I've known.n/t

[Lex]

36. My student loans (in the 1990s) involved tuition, books, and money for living expenses.

I suppose he may've diverted some of his expenses money for purchase of the weapons. Plus, credit card companies will still give you credit cards even if you are a student.

[Liberal_in_LA]

48. That's what the science grad stipends pay, they are competitive to get.

[southernyankeebelle]

50. This guy got alot of help and breaks and what does he do? Fucks his life up and kills many

for no reason. My son was a cook and just got a promotion as a manager and will be making alittle over that for 4 people in his family. What a waste.

[pnwmom]

53. I bet it's going to turn out paranoid schizophrenia is what fucked up his life.

It's a horrible disease.

[LisaL]

58. And I get it's not going to turn out paranoid schizophrenia.

[obamanut2012]

73. Me too

[Care Acutely]

64. That's a very good bet.

I really wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy, or anyone.

[pnwmom]

74. Welcome to DU, Care Acutely. n/t

[southernyankeebelle]

86. I wouldn't be surprised that he isn't. You are right that it is a horrible disease. This

country needs to do more for mental illness. No doubt about it.

[pnwmom]

66. The stipend is to pay for his work as a teaching and/or research assistant.

Universities get a lot of cheap labor from their graduate students. It's much cheaper to pay for grad students to do this work than to hire more faculty.

[gkhouston]

68. Actually, it can be harder to get grants if you *don't* have student labor as part of the grant.

I know this is true for the NSF, and believe that's also the case for NIH. That's not just a "cost" issue, it's a "mentoring" issue. Agencies want to develop scientists as well as science.

[backscatter712]

69. To be fair, 99.99999% of grad students with stipends don't shoot up movie theaters. n/t

[LisaL]

70. That's for sure.

[ginger31]

79. Details on the money that supported Holmes

For a clearer picture on how this psychopath worked it will be necessary to see who supported Holmes, enabling him to possess an arsonal of weapons to kill so many. Did anyone, his friends, his mother, father not see how he lived--with the booby trappings?

[pnwmom]

80. The companies he bought this stuff from knew more than anyone else, probably.

And were his "enablers." He wasn't living in the same state as his family, so it would have been easy for them not to know.

[obamanut2012]

81. He probably had just set the traps

And, his parents live in CA.

As this entire thread says, he had a grad school grant/stipend of 26k.

[Posteritatis]

82. That's simple. He got a graduate study grant.

Anyone maxing out a couple student credit cards can make five grand or so in purchases easily enough, especially if they don't care about paying it off.

Jesus, people, this is neither complex nor mysterious. $26K plus a few more is completely normal for an upper tier graduate student.

[arcane1]

83. His parents were hundreds of miles away

and most college students have at least one credit card these days.