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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsPathetic... Even The 'Democratic Underground' Is Afraid Of The NRA
The NRA Has America Living Under The Gun - Bill Moyers/Michael WinshipWe are a country which began with the forced subjugation into slavery of millions of Africans and the reliance on arms against Native Americans for its westward expansion. In truth, more settlers traveling the Oregon Trail died from accidental, self-inflicted gunshots wounds than Indian attacks -- we were not only bloodthirsty but also inept.
Nonetheless, we have become so gun loving, so gun crazy, so blasé about home-grown violence that far more Americans have been casualties of domestic gunfire than have died in all our wars combined. In Arizona last year, just days after the Gabby Giffords shooting, sales of the weapon used in the slaughter -- a 9 millimeter Glock semi-automatic pistol -- doubled.
We are fooling ourselves. Fooling ourselves that the law could allow even an inflamed lunatic to easily acquire murderous weapons and not expect murderous consequences. Fooling ourselves that the Second Amendment’s guarantee of a “well-regulated militia” be construed as a God-given right to purchase and own just about any weapon of destruction you like, a license for murder and mayhem. A great fraud has entered our history.
Maybe you remember this video. In it, Adam Gadahn, an American born member of al Qaeda, the first U.S. citizen charged with treason since 1952, urges terrorists to carry out attacks on the United States. Right before your eyes he says, “America is absolutely awash with easily obtainable firearms. You can go down to a gun show at the local convention center and come away with a fully automatic assault rifle without a background check, and most likely, without having to show an identification card. So what are you waiting for?”
The gunman in Colorado waited only for his opportunity. So there you have it -- the arsenal of democracy has been transformed into the arsenal of death and the NRA? The NRA is the enabler of death -- paranoid, delusional and as venomous as a scorpion. With the weak-kneed acquiescence of our politicians, the National Rifle Association has turned the Second Amendment of the Constitution into a cruel and deadly hoax.
From: http://www.nationofchange.org/nra-has-america-living-under-gun-1343051560
Related Link: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021006920
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DontTreadOnMe
(2,442 posts)Call it the "Protect Our Children Act"
-..__...
(7,776 posts)how about "Fuck the Children Act" instead?
Yeah.. it might sound kind of harsh, and might not play well with censors/family worshipers/the FCC (fuck them too)...
but it certainly gets your attention.
Warpy
(114,569 posts)The NRA has become a gun manufacturer's lobbying group and their more slavishly devoted membership has become a cult.
If there is one organization liberals need to quit, it's that one. Stop supporting them with dues. Stop buying into their poison about the second amendment. Abandon them until it's obvious to everyone exactly what they've become.
They are no longer the gun owner's organization they were when they started out, they've moved on. So should every reasonable gun owner in the country.
tex-wyo-dem
(3,190 posts)You nailed it. I would go as far as to call them a cult organization, as well.
As it is with many "lobbying" groups, they have transformed into a profit making institution and, therefore, must find ways of ever increasing their revenues. The fact that liberals have largely given up on any serious push for gun control measures has been bad for the NRA's business, so they have to spend their time whipping up fear in their paranoid membership base that the commie left and the Marxist Kenyan in the WH wants to take your guns, so ya better load up on firearms and ammo pronto! Great for gun manufacturer's business and equally great for NRA membership dues.
The NRA has been able to successfully re-write history and turn on its head what exactly the 2nd amendment means...and their corporate masters love them for it!
arcane1
(38,613 posts)"Adam Gadahn, an American born member of al Qaeda, the first U.S. citizen charged with treason since 1952, urges terrorists to carry out attacks on the United States. Right before your eyes he says, “America is absolutely awash with easily obtainable firearms. You can go down to a gun show at the local convention center and come away with a fully automatic assault rifle without a background check, and most likely, without having to show an identification card. So what are you waiting for?”"
I've been wondering for 11 years now why, if terrorists are hidden, lurking, on every street corner, why there hasn't been a rash of public shootings by them. The only conclusion I've been able to reach is that they simply don't exist.
Llewlladdwr
(2,175 posts)You most certainly cannot "go down to a gun show at the local convention center and come away with a fully automatic assault rifle without a background check, and most likely, without having to show an identification card." If you don't believe me, just try it. Let us know how it works out.
The reason you haven't seen a rash of terrorist shootings involving fully automatic weapons in this country is because they're damn hard to get.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)40% of all sales never have a background check. Too bad undercover NYPD proved this was easily done in Arizone. I might not like Bloomberg, but that was chilling.
proud patriot
(102,469 posts)
Llewlladdwr
(2,175 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)I will be blunt with you. Keep your AR, with only one setting on it...single shot. Good enough for hunting.
You keep ignoring the obvious.
But as a gun bunny, I expect nothing less.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Llewlladdwr
(2,175 posts)One round is fired each time the trigger is pulled.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)why it loads as fast as it does...
But you knew that.
Now that you will get stuck on the technicals of it... I will be blunt, MANUAL feed, like a BOLT ACTION...
But hey, gun bunny, welcome to my ignore list. Some of us know that talking to you is far more painful than the damn wall... the wall, actually gets it.
Oh and sadly, due to your love for sweet dreams, we will have more of these shootings. I wonder how many more it will take for the inevitable reaction to this? You think I am nuts? Pick a history book on the 1934 bill... can't wait for something like that to happen, and the inevitable howls
Llewlladdwr
(2,175 posts)You're fun nadinbrzezinski. Maybe nuts too, but definitely fun.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Fully automatic weapons have been tightly regulated since 1934. Every time they change hands, there is a 200$ tax assessed, the weapons are ALL registered, change of hands is accompanied by a full background check, not just a NICS instant check, and the BATFE may show up and check up on them at the registered address for any reason.
Since the registry was closed in 1986, no new legal fully automatic weapons manufactured after 1986 can be registered, so the pool of fully automatic weapons in circulation is finite, meaning, my 1986 AR-15 is worth about 800$, but a registered M-16 from the same year is worth over $20,000, and cannot be replaced. There is no material basis for the difference in cost, as the two weapons from the same date have mostly interchangeable parts. (After 1986, this is no longer true due to a law that required all new weapons sold NOT be easily converted to full automatic)
Only one legally owned/registered fully automatic weapon has ever been used in a crime. (It was used by an off-duty police officer, as he murdered his wife)
There do exist illegal fully automatic weapons that change hands in the black markets. They are stolen, smuggled into the country, made by hand in the country, or were never registered when the registry was created in 1934, and now, cannot be registered, even if discovered in a box great-grandpa left in a box in the attic, and died 90 years prior.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)gun owners are not trying to fix the problem. There is a lot they could do. We must keep the guns out of the hands of the crazies. But gun owners are sooooo very afraid that any attempt at "controlling" guns will infringe on them. Gun owners would rather crazies have access to guns than give up any of their "rights". The massive proliferation of guns makes it easy for the crazies to get access. Work with us not against us.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Registration would go a long way toward eliminating straw purchases and most means in which firearms pass from the hands of a legal owner, to an ineligible buyer.
Unfortunately, two registries in the US have been used to ban guns, and in one case, confiscate guns.
So now no one will trust the very concept of a registry.
What do we do now?
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)
Kaleva
(40,340 posts)It's illegal to purchase a fully automatic weapon without first going thru an extensive background check anywhere (gun shows, private party or gun shop)and at anytime.
Maybe you are arguing that the laws aren't being enforced.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)They both are deadly and appeal to certain people's baser instincts. Gun apologists love to hide behind gun nomenclature. Fact is, such lethal weapons are readily available to almost any yahoo who feels they might need one.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)So are bows and arrows, swords, javelins, and boomerrangs. All are weapons adopted as sport.
Semi automatics represent almost every handgun sold today, and maybe half(?) the rifles. Good luck banning them.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)They invariably are the guns yahoos drool over.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)75% of gun-related crime is done with handguns. Yes most handguns are semiautomatic, its been years since Ive even seen a revolver. But Govt stats show that most gun crime is committed by people with a criminal record, and their gun is obtained by theft, borrowed, or bought on the street. Not purchased through dealer, mail order, gun show, etc.
Now, perhaps you'll share your plan to keeping guns off the black market. How is the government going to stop that when they haven't stopped a black market for drugs in 50 years?
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Original owners often have an arsenal in their home that are not secured -- hence stolen guns.
Original owners unload them for cash (often profiting) and don't give a dang who buys them. Original owner are usually too cheap to spend $40 or so for an FFL transfer -- again, they just want a fist full of cash and the heck with consequences to society. And I haven't even gotten into how gun owners promote more guns; set bad examples for others; support NRA and similar groups (that lobby for right wing causes in addition to gun causes); and, perhaps, worse.
If we start restricting the original sale, that will at least keep a lot of guns out of production. If we put restrictions on public toting, that will dramatically reduce demand as well. Other restrictions will do the same.
Point is, we don't have to be 100% effective to make efforts worthwhile. If we make a 10% improvement in each of the next 5 decades, we will be on the road to solving this problem long-term. I would hope for something sooner, but just like in Congress, we are faced with do-nothing right wingers who don't give a dang about anyone but themselves (and any profits they can make from a bad habit).
I do realize a lot of those folks who call themselves "law-abiding" under the current lax gun laws, will become un-law-abiding if restrictions are enacted. Just shows what they really are. There have been folks in the DU gungeon that imply they'll just manufacture their own guns if restrictions are applied. Think what the right wingers will do. But, you just have to make it very costly for them.
I also realize a lot of gun owners are so callous, paranoid, even bigoted, that they'll find ways to arm themselves to intimidate and kill those they fear or hate. It wont' be easy.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)would reduce guns "on the streets" somewhat. It would by no means eliminate them however. And while guns do represent about 2/3 of homicides (75% by handguns), guns are used in under half of armed robberies, and only 22% of aggravated assaults.Those are Government statistics. Criminals are going to commit crimes with whatever weapon they can acquire.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)with pepper spray would be good for society.
Unfortunately, those attracted to guns would not find pepper spray sexy or lethal enough to produce endorphins.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)While a mass murder generates headlines and horror, statistically they amount to just a fraction of violent crime. Ordinary street crime is the vast majority. Most violent criminals have previous criminal records. Most violent crime victims have prior criminal records. Except for homicide, most violent crimes involve the use of weapon other than gun (gun use=42% of armed robbery, 22% of aggravated assault). Common sense would indicate that criminals on the street will find a way to acquire a weapon, criminals in jail cannot.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Llewlladdwr
(2,175 posts)Jeez Hoyt, you actually have the nerve to tell others to not be judgemental?
You got spunk, I'll give you that.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)
IDemo
(16,926 posts)Politicians just bark loudly and leave their crap for others to deal with.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Even if that master is less than fully scrupulous.
xchrom
(108,903 posts)White guys like Holmes or others collect arsenals - deadly arsenals - and are never surveilled?
I really wish our 'top notch' security apparatus would take a closer damn look at some of 'casual' shooters & 'collectors', etc.
madinmaryland
(65,722 posts)proud patriot
(102,469 posts)steve2470
(37,481 posts)MrSlayer
(22,143 posts)They make or break elections. You want to make sure the President loses and we lose the Senate too? Go after guns.
It's that simple. We're all the NRA's bitch.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)so what is this talk of... Democracy ???
99Forever
(14,524 posts)... you cut right to the chase.
Ain't "triangulation" lovely?
WillyT
(72,631 posts)
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)only about 4% of gun owners belong. Gun owners do amount to about 100 million, and most would not likely vote for a candidate planning to take away their guns. Reforming gun control laws is a possibility, as long as the discussion doesn't involve banning guns.
IDemo
(16,926 posts)Don't go after anybody if you want to win the next election. Go along to get along.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)If 40% of Dems owned Oil Co or Wall St banks, it would be politically impossible to go after them also.
IDemo
(16,926 posts)Regardless of the issue. They've redefined "politically impossible".
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)I will lead the NRA hunting party!!!!
I say it's tar and feathers time.
Edweird
(8,570 posts)It's bullshit.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)
Under the table of course.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Any dealer selling a kit under the table and machining the gun to accept it is facing fines and prison sentences far outweighing financial gain... not to mention loss of dealer license and gun license.
And automatics have little use. Not good for hunting, self-defense, or even target shooting. Given their high cost ($10K+), if someone really wants to shoot an automatic they can pay a fee and shoot one at a gun meet.
proud patriot
(102,469 posts)Tejas
(4,759 posts)I want to see these full-auto kits they sell under the table.
Edweird
(8,570 posts)Scroll down to the bottom
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/firearms-technology.html
Kaleva
(40,340 posts)Those internet sources are outside the US where such conversion kits are legal. If you want to take the chance of being a victim of an ATF sting operation or risk that the company you bought it from will turn you in to the ATF and thus end up going to jail for a long time, I guess one could try it.
As for supposedly being able to buy such under the table at gun shows, how would the seller know the buyer isn't an undercover ATF agent? Just how much would that kit cost if the risk just for having it was 10 years in prison and a $100,000.00 fine?
Edweird
(8,570 posts)the ATF you do. 10 years in Federal PMITA prison.
NickB79
(20,320 posts)And if you don't think the ATF regularly has fake purchasers looking for said under-the-table dealings online and at gunshows, you're naive. The fact that we almost never hear about these illegal kits being found shows how rare they truly are, because it would be big news if regular busts were made.
Erose999
(5,624 posts)machine shop where he worked. Machined this, case hardened that, the whole deal.
If a disabled tank mechanic can design and build one, using crude tools, in the middle of the Russian winter on the Eastern Front...
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)The laws don't work if the cops don't find out about it.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)I'm not a gunsmith. But I have decent mechanical, machining, and welding skills. I have repaired and/or modified cars, sewing machines, saxophones, and everythine inbetween. With a kit and a gun, I could probably put a working automatic together. But I wont...not because of the difficulty, but because its simply not worth the price of being caught.
There maybe gunsmiths/machinists working for drug gangs doing it... but they're going to prison anyway due to being in the gang.
Kaleva
(40,340 posts)I'm not going to go into any kind of detail on how to do this as the penalty for having an illegal automatic weapon or even just certain parts of one can be a hefty prison sentence and fine.
Never mind. I shouldn't say that.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)By all means, go buy one.
I hear ten years in a 12'x12' concrete cell is fun.
Tejas
(4,759 posts)
NRaleighLiberal
(61,832 posts)
but yes, they do make me
proud patriot
(102,469 posts)it clearly states these armed citizens must have regulations to ensure the public safety.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)WillyT
(72,631 posts)
proud patriot
(102,469 posts)that's my take and I'm sticking with it... Hey we have a ping pong table now ... I still need to have you out.
power to the peaceful concert sat sept 8th golden gate park be there if ya can.
WillyT
(72,631 posts) 
proud patriot
(102,469 posts)
turtlerescue1
(1,013 posts)But the NRA is a freight train, what will not stop it is a human.
Thoma Hartmann today argued that we also have Freedom of Speech, but even that has regulations, like yelling "fire" in a theater, etc. BUT the NRA doesn't want to hear about regulations to "ensure public safety". How much are they pouring into this election? Federally, States, and likely County Levels?
Citizens United won't be a way to reduce the impacts of the NRA. Which means before we can get to step four of "dis-arming" the power of the NRA lobby, we have to fight these other battles first. Kinda hard to do when things like jobs, mortgages, and LOSS get in the way of our focus and demand energies.
Ya know I've been aware of hunting season most of my lifetime, from pheasant to duck to deer and bear. My Dad hunted with a bow, required more skill. Still I never heard rapid fire weapons used to hunt food, but sure heard them in gang violence.
We are a long way from getting any peace with the NRA. How many more will have to be killed while doing innocent everyday activities? If we could take their Right b.s. off the table, not let them cling to their mantras, but asked what they think needs to be done to end this insanity-would that help?
Alduin
(501 posts)
Skittles
(171,465 posts)the same way Reagan made greed and ignorance fashionable
Lint Head
(15,064 posts)There are some that think it is hopeless to do anything about killing. As long as that is the attitude it 'is' hopeless. I'm hopeful and refuse to temper my hope.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)Whisp
(24,096 posts)The NRA gets dealt some justice, altho it is and most likely always be fantasy that is the only kind available 'fraid to say.
blue neen
(12,465 posts)There are a number of posts and threads from this weekend that would dispute that claim.
Homer12
(1,866 posts)NRA = Anti-American
Erose999
(5,624 posts)Tejas
(4,759 posts)Harry Reid is a friend to the shooting sports and saw to it that a $60,000,000 shooting center got built in Nevada. He received campaign donations from the NRA and voted AGAINST the 1994 AWB. Harry Reid and the NRA have done well for Nevada. So......fuck Harry Reid?
A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)advocate directly for a Democrats opponent on DU, but you can support the NRA which opposes almost every Democrat in the country and have your own little spot on DU to do it in.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)All the automatic assault weapons pointed up your collective asses, followed by the request to go fuck yourself with something useful.
4bucksagallon
(975 posts)I once belonged to the NRA but they left me with their politics in the '60's. I do still enjoy firearms, so what. I hunt does that make me a bad person? Look I am all for some restrictions on weaponry, such as no one needs to own a fully automatic rifle. I spent a year in Viet Nam as a rifleman "grunt" and in that year had my fair share of firefights. I can recall only two occasions where I used fully automatic fire. One was when we were in danger of being overrun with our backs to the river, and two was when I was walking point and walked into an ambush. Other than that all firing of my weapon was on semi auto, and if you think that full auto is more deadly...... go and fire a fully automatic rifle, and get back to me how accurate it was for you. I don't care how much muzzle brake they put on it, you aren't going to hit much. Yeah even with a lowly M16, 5.56mm, 55 grain bullet with very little kick. Try it and see.
Jamaal510
(10,893 posts)They still support Willard Robme for president even though he had stricter gun laws in MA than Obama ever has, and yet they say Obama's the one going after everyone's guns.
mountain grammy
(29,001 posts)Never saw the entire quote until now.. thank you Willy T.
The word "regulate" is in the second amendment.
The NRA has 4 million members with revenues of $200+ million, and dues around $35/year, so where does all of the money come from? The NRA should be investigated for mobster activity, I think it's as dirty as they come.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)namely the way it sticks with what it's used to long after America has moved on.
The NRA is an overrated fringe group that should be left as a historic footnote that used to have power right next to the Nativists movement.
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krispos42
(49,445 posts)...millions of 11+ capacity magazines, and billions of rounds of the best, deadliest ammunition in the history of mankind, our homicide rate is half of what it was when Clinton announced his candidacy.
Despite the fact that there are literally tens of millions of people that can, within minutes, walk down to their nearest crowded commercial or religious building with whatever they have in their closet commit a mass murder... it's a rare and shocking event when it occurs.
Despite the fact that there are a hundred and fifty million people that can, with a credit card and no more than a 14-day wait, purchase a gun with which to commit mass murder... it's a rare and shocking event when it occurs.
Despite the fact that there are two hundred twenty million people that can, with some ready cash and a copy of the classifieds, buy a used gun on a whim and commit mass murder, it's a rare and shocking event when it occurs.
If people don't go into muscle-paralyzing spasms of fear at the shear amount of potential slaughter from driving with other cars on the interstate, then why should people be the same way about the hundreds of millions of guns in private hands in America?
cliffordu
(30,994 posts)Ought to be it's own OP.
krispos42
(49,445 posts)After a shooting, a deliberate act, people look around themselves and get all paranoid. They can feel the guns around them, they can feel how vulnerable they are to being in the wrong place at the wrong time, and they demand action.
Vehicular collisions, no matter how many there are, are simply not thought of in the same way because it's an accident, right?
cliffordu
(30,994 posts)Except for me if I ever get hit...I ride a bicycle everywhere and deal with what I consider attempted murder every goddamned day.
Guns are a trivial threat to me in comparison.
krispos42
(49,445 posts)Either fine, or chunky salsa in a body bag.
cliffordu
(30,994 posts)tomato paste.
Serve The Servants
(328 posts)This was the most rational thing I've read here all week.
Pholus
(4,062 posts)It is not clear that "guns" (I will temporarily accept your framing of the issue that ALL guns are being held at fault here) are responsible for a decline in the homicide rate. Several times I have presented this list to people claiming your statistic and none have taken up my challenge -- perhaps you're smarter than they are...
Here are the factors which have been discussed and the special interest groups that have taken credit for the decline in the rate:
1) Guns, guns and more guns (uhhhh, you)
2) Improved police work removing repeats from the streets (police chiefs)
3) Changing demographics of an aging population (Demographers)
4) Evolution of the drug trade as the winners shook out (the DEA)
5) More cops in general (politicians)
6) Then you got Steven Levitt saying legalized abortion had its effects. It is about 15 years between legalized abortion and the drop in the rate.
7) Finally, the prison industrial complex. Their graph of incarceration rate vs. year looks JUST like the violent crime rate.
I await an epic post which convincingly proves that number 1 is the only cause of the decline.
As far as the rest of it, well perhaps the difference is that the "potential slaughter" on the roadways is accepted because transportation has, you know, actual positive benefits to society. Guns? When they're successfully used in self defence it always warrants a kudos post in RKBA -- evidence that its kind of like a man bites dog story in a torrent of accidental and deliberate deaths.
krispos42
(49,445 posts)I said that DESPITE all the guns, the homicide rate dropped in half, which disproves the theory that it's the common availability of guns, or that the people that own guns are likely to kill simply because they have guns.
Actually, throughout the past several years, my posts on the issue have contained points 5, 6, a bit of 3, and the notion of the 3-strikes-and-you're-out laws. You can file that under point #7, perhaps.
Since most murders have fairly extensive criminal records and work up to murder, putting them in jail until their middle-aged if they have a habit of committing felonies will logically reduce the number of graduates on the street.
My point about potential slaughter was that feelings dominate. I was not arguing the relative usefulness of cars versus guns, but pointing out that when we drive, particularly on crowded streets and highways, we stop seeing the potential slaughter of a bad accident. You're in control, you're in your cocoon of steel and airbags, and everybody is doing pretty much what you expect them to do. And you usually go years between accidents.
And when it does happen, if you're uninjured you can probably go back to driving the next day, after a stiff drink and a night's rest. But some people can't handle the stress, and they lose the ability to drive because they cannot stop seeing the potential. They over-react to every movement of a car... lane change, acceleration, braking.
Well, same thing. Day to day the fact that one household in three has guns is simply not present in your life. That house has an average of maybe 7 guns, divided between shotguns, rifles, and handguns. There's an excellent change that a weapon easily capable of mass murder is in a house within visual range of your front door, and FUCK, what is that guy's mental state anyway? But you're in your life bubble, they're in their live bubble, and despite the potential to go out with a gun and slaughter people, that potential is very very rarely realized.
But when it is realized, people start asking for laws and such.
I actually think that household guns for self-defense has remained pretty steady over the last few decades, and concealed-carry licensing is not in near enough numbers to do much to affect the overall homicide rate.
Pholus
(4,062 posts)your actual assertion is just plain questionable and proves nothing. You even hint at that yourself in the last sentence. The number of guns have increased by roughly a factor of about three in the last 40 years (some pro-second amendment site I was reading) but as you hinted the fraction of self-reporting households owning guns has stayed roughly constant over the last 20 years at least (Gallup). That would seem to lead to the conclusion that the size of the average gun collection has increased while the fraction of gun owners has stayed constant. You really wouldn't expect an explosion of gun violence under that condition -- a gun owner who starts murdering people really isn't going to use more than a gun (or two or three or four) but likely not the entire collection. Haha I just argued a point for you -- guns don't kill people, people with access to guns do and fortunately that fraction is not significantly changing. It would also form a decent starting argument that guns are probably *not* the primary cause of the drop in the homicide rate, but we can save the full set of details for another time.
And arguing that things are somehow okay because we're desensitized to risk really isn't really that hot an argument either. Just as I am a safe driver, I end up having to examine other "life bubbles" to make sure that my family risk stays low. I make it a point to get to know my neighbors well because my kids might have to interact with them when I'm not there. If one of my neighbors were to be like my idiot gunloon brother (150+ gun collection, proud single issue voter, carries everywhere, too cool to practice proper gun safety, cannot manage a 10 minute conversation without turning to guns, family living in a hovel as a result) you can BET we would take extra caution around them. My dear ol bro might not be the average gun owner, but I consider people like him EVERY bit as dangerous as a drunk driver and use him as my handy guide of warning signs for all gun owners. He's not a murderer, but he is stupid and reckless and others *have* been injured as a result of that in the past. But we have a second amendment that prevents all rational discussion and so he can still have his toys.
There are other reasons to be aware of your neigbors "life bubbles," but I would like to thank everyone who tirelessly advocates so that gun ownership ends up as a firm permenent member of the list.
krispos42
(49,445 posts)Thank you. It can get stale in the Gungeon. 
I don't know that the number of guns has tripled since 1970-ish; our population has increased by 50% (from 205 million to 310), so that would mean that our per-capita gun ownership rate about doubled in the intervening time. I did find this interesting graph in the Gungeon several years ago, if it's of any interest.
It shows gun ownership going from about 6,800 per 10,000 in 1981 to about 8,100 per 10,000 in 2006, a 25-year span. Extrapolating back to 1971 would seem to lead to about 6,300 per 10,000 in 1971.
For what it's worth.
However, we have to note that our non-gun homicide rate is higher than Western European nations' total homicide rate. And since an unknown but probably large percentage of gun-related murders would still be committed with "other" if, say, guns magically turned into rust tomorrow. Remember, we have about 16,000 murders a year, committed by about 15,000 or so people (most murders are single-victim).
Yeah, we could maybe save lives by embarking on a multi-generational process to disarm Americans. It would go something like this:
Step 1: Immediately outlaw news sales of self-loading firearms, including handguns. This would limit people to bolt-action, slide-action, lever-action, break-action and muzzle-loading long guns. Institute licensing and registration of new guns.
Step 2: Prohibit selling or inheritance of self-loading firearms to anybody but the government. The government will be required to pay fair market price for all self-loading firearms, then destroy them. This would probably encompass about 80 million handguns and another 60 million or so self-loading rifles and shotguns. At, say, $1,000 each average, that works out to $140 billion in today's dollars.
Step 3: Prohibit selling or inheritance of firearms that feed from a magazine or have multiple chambers per barrel. This limits new guns sales to break-action single and double rifles and shotguns, and muzzle-loading shotguns and rifles.
Step 4: Wait. As the gun owners age and die off, eventually the number of handguns and multi-shot long guns drops to near zero. At least in theory. So does the number of murders... at least in theory. Several decades later, as the drop in civilian guns finally begins to make a dent in gun available to career violent criminals. At least in theory.
Step 5: Deal with a persistent problem of angry or desperate gun owners selling their guns to criminals for loads of cash, and gangs and cartels either producing their own or corrupting the police to acquire them.
Or we can just legalize pot and maybe a few other recreational drugs for an immediate reduction in murder, robbery, and home invasions.
Regarding the "life bubble", I was merely pointing out that when something like the Dark Knight Massacre happens, people get jarred out of their usual perception of their surroundings. This also happens after a car crash; I was in a pretty bad one 2 years ago. I escaped unscathed (not a scratch) but the car was wrecked. And I was extremely aware of the potential consequences and the kinetic energies of moving vehicles for a few days afterwards, until my usual bubble reestablished itself.
I am comforted by the fact that my usual highway driving habits have resulted in zero accidents in about 17 years; when the guy hit me I was towing a trailer in the RH lane at 55mph, instead of cruising at 70 in the LH lane. 
Note that my car is on the median. When the guy hit the trailer, I was jackknifed into the middle lane, where he then T-boned me to the median. That's right... across three lanes of heavy Sunday afternoon traffic!
I'm sorry your brother is such a poor decision-maker; like all interests there is a practical limit which he seems to be far in excess of. While I don't know if he has murder potential, it does sound like he has definite accident potential.
And the 2nd Amendment is not immunity from misuse, I would like to note.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)And yet Bush said of the AARP when he heard they opposed his privatizing Social Security, "How much power can one group have?"
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)NRA, Fox "News", hate Radio, Big Media, the Tea Baggers, the "Christians"...everyone's scared shitless of all of them. I hope to still be around when enough of us get sick of it to take the country back
ileus
(15,396 posts)
benEzra
(12,148 posts)so that's not surprising. And Dems are even less likely than repubs to own guns solely for hunting, per some fairly recent Gallup polls, meaning that bans on nonhunting guns aren't going to fly with Dem gun owners.
But rifle bans are pretty stupid anyway, considering that rifles are the least misused of all firearms (less than 3% of murders annually involve *any* type of rifle).
Remmah2
(3,291 posts)Not from what I read. Democracy is alive and well, the author is rather desperate.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)
sendero
(28,552 posts).. I don't like the NRA. But I do believe in gun rights.
What I fear most is idiots who think they can solve problems by waving a magic wand or issuing proclamations of the sort that are roundly ignored and always will be.
Folks who think that other folks who decide to commit murder will care about the legality of the weapon they use are FUCKING MORONS.